Your attention please

This is the NEW ILP… where we don’t need facts or evidence
to make our point… on the new ILP, all we need to believe in
something and that automatically makes it true…
If it sounds good, like reincarnation for example, it sounds
good, so, yes, I totally believe in it…Who needs evidence or
facts when I can just make shit up and KNOW its true…

God for example, there is no need to seek out facts or evidence,
I believe and god dam it, that good enough for you to hold that
belief…invading a state because of supposed fraud, well, hells bells,
sounds good to me, all I need is to believe and it becomes true…

WE don’t engage with philosophy on ILP…WE PRACTICE
THEOLOGY… we are about faith and belief, not facts or
evidence… so, if you have faith in something, that’s good enough
for us at ILP…

Kropotkin

3 Likes

Silenus:
And the prime theologist is you, Krap-on-It….your religion is liberalism…..your god is Humanity, your goal is Marxism.

No evidence…no argument, no logic…only repeating declarations, trying to trigger emotions….like any priest.

Anarcho-Marxism…..that’s what your religion is called.

K: I am guessing you like to be wrong… I have argued, many, many
times against Marxism/communism… I have no religion, but I do
hold that liberalism, based on the incredible progress of the world
over the last 200 years, via Liberalism, is the best path to go and for the
many, many reasons I have listed over the years… I have presented
evidence and arguments, it may be that you aren’t smart enough
to understand or comprehend that evidence or arguments…
I can’t help you with that part… that I hold to human beings or
humanism is the path to follow, yes, but make another argument,
show me how I am wrong… I have always, always
have said this: where is your evidence? and in keeping with
that mantra, I have presented the best evidence/facts that
I am aware of in favor of humanism… do you have other evidence or
facts that you know of, that deny the advantages of
liberalism/humanism. Please feel free to make that argument…
or as I like to say, where is your evidence or facts that disprove
the advantages of liberalism/humanism…

Kropotkin

1 Like

A lightweight Westerner who doesn’t believe in the reincarnation Heavyweight logic.

“I know reincarnation exists because I exist and I am not you. If you claim you exist and you exist that is proof of Consciousness in another body that’s not my own. Therefore it shows Consciousness continues from body to body. There is no big sleep.

You say its 50/50, could be big sleep could be reincarnation. Im saying no its 99% odds of reincarnation. There is no evidence or support why big sleep.

What are you saying? That you big sleep forever while everybody’s elses consciousness goes on? That makes no sense whatsoever. Obviously consciousness will just teleport to the next host.

.

Why would anyone choose this garbage world and existence when we could just big sleep forever. Obviously we didn’t choose it we were FORCED to exist.”

- futureone

“Westerns dont believe in reincarnation because they look at it backwards. I dont look at it backwards.

The way i see it, life is a curse, you are forced to exist, there an infinite amount of aliens in the universe. Death isn’t an event. Death isn’t an activity. Why would death be an activity? Why would death magically prevent consciousness from finding a new host?

What do souls, phlebotinum, and goobledegook have to do with anything? You need to remember past lives to prove reincarnation exists? What? Souls must exist? God must exist? None of that is required for reincarnation theory. All is Western strawman argument.”

- futureone

What is wrong with throwing ideas out there and seeing how they get on under scrutiny Peter? Much philosophy was grounded by religion and beliefs. Why don’t you just mute the threads that don’t interest you? Why are you getting upset?

Sorry, let’s go back to discussing a hypothetical new form of Communism. Maybe that is relevant to your interests, it is to mine too, but don’t knock other people’s interests just because it’s something you find ridiculous. What’s a philosophy thread, discussing ideas or bitching about the admin?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

1 Like

The evidence is provided…..

Sheltering sickens a herd….

1 Like

From DeepSeek

Liberalism, as a broad and evolving political and philosophical tradition, centers on the primacy of individual liberty, equality, and consent of the governed. Its core tenets can be summarized as follows, though different strands (classical, social, neoliberal) emphasize different aspects:

1. Individualism

  • The individual is the primary unit of moral and political value. Society is a collection of individuals, and its institutions should aim to promote the freedom and well-being of its members.

  • Key Idea: Individuals possess inherent dignity and rights that exist prior to, and are not granted by, the state or society.

2. Liberty (Freedom)

  • The protection of individual freedom from coercion by the state, society, or other individuals. This is often framed as negative liberty—freedom from interference—though modern liberalism also emphasizes positive liberty (the capacity and resources to act on one’s freedoms).

  • Classical focus: Freedom of speech, religion, press, assembly, and property rights.

  • Modern focus: Also includes freedom from want, discrimination, and access to opportunities.

3. Equality

  • Equality before the law: All individuals are entitled to equal legal rights and treatment.

  • Moral equality: All individuals have equal moral worth.

  • Social/Modern liberalism expands this to include a commitment to greater social and economic equality (through progressive taxation, welfare, etc.) to ensure a “level playing field.”

4. Rationalism and Progress

  • Belief in human reason and the possibility of improving society through rational debate, reform, and science. Liberalism is generally optimistic about human potential and social progress.

  • It favors critical inquiry over tradition or dogma as the basis for political and social organization.

5. Consent of the Governed & Popular Sovereignty

  • Political authority is legitimate only if it is derived from the consent of the people. This is the foundation of liberal democracy.

  • Government is a social contract to protect rights and serve the people, who express their will through free, fair, and regular elections.

6. Limited and Constitutional Government

  • To prevent tyranny and protect liberty, government power must be limited, checked, and defined by a constitution.

  • Features include the separation of powers (executive, legislative, judiciary), an independent judiciary, the rule of law, and protections for minority rights against the “tyranny of the majority.”

7. Toleration and Pluralism

  • A liberal society tolerates a diversity of beliefs, lifestyles, and opinions, seeing this pluralism as a strength. The state should generally be neutral among competing conceptions of the “good life.”

  • Exception: Intolerance that threatens the liberal order itself may not be tolerated (a concept known as the “paradox of tolerance”).

8. Private Property and Market Economy

  • Classical liberalism strongly emphasizes private property rights and a market-based (capitalist) economy as essential for individual autonomy and prosperity.

  • Modern social liberalism accepts markets but advocates for government regulation and intervention to correct market failures (like monopolies or pollution) and provide a social safety net.


Major Distinctions Within Liberalism:

  • Classical Liberalism: Emphasizes minimal state intervention, maximal individual liberty (especially economic liberty), and strict limitations on government power. (Think: John Locke, Adam Smith, Friedrich Hayek).

  • Social Liberalism (Modern Liberalism): Emphasizes a more active state role in ensuring social justice, economic opportunity, and positive liberties. It accepts welfare programs and regulation to create fair conditions for all. (Think: John Stuart Mill, John Rawls, Franklin D. Roosevelt).

  • Neoliberalism: A late-20th-century revival of classical liberal emphasis on free markets, deregulation, privatization, and globalization.

In essence, liberalism is a framework that seeks to maximize individual freedom within a just society, using a limited, democratic government as the tool to balance these often-competing demands. Its enduring question is the precise boundary between individual liberty and collective well-being.

So, basically Americanism…..

But Krap-On-It is a Marxist…an anarcho-Marxist…ergo he’s adopted the moniker “Kropotkin”…a Russian anarcho-Marxist.

Whenever you hear “anarchy” think “daddy issues” and stunted development.

There is no such thing as a world without “αρχη”, some kind of hierarchy or guiding principle, dominant authority.

The delusion of anarchy has become central to the American psychosis, expressing a rejection of paternalism, the pater, the father figure, and a distrust of government…..a divide and control tactic, characteristic of Americanisms “individualism mythos”.

This distrust has been cultivated as another aspect of divide and control - Homo Americanus.

A psychology of the frontier…..and self-reliance….and a rejection of all collective identities.

Equality is another mythos, that begins with the premise of “equality under the law” and becomes the delusion that all men are created equal…..Locke’s cocnept of a tabula rasa….that implies a uniformity which is corrupted by the system….ergo race and gender must be ‘social constructs’ and not biological truths.

Truth is equality is a contradiction of natural selection….there is never equality, not even between twins, or clones, or a man is never equal to himself, at different periods of his life.

The rule of nature is inequality. Survival of the fittest implies diversity, inequality.

The idea that man can create a alternate reality where all are equal, is romantic…..and naive.

Equality under the law is also romantic idea….but it constantly fails…because men will be men, and nepotism and networking, and wealth will always corrupt romantic ideals.

In the US money is the corrupting factor….there is no equality under the law….and there can never be…not even in Marxism.

Rationalism fails…..just look at the US and its LGBTJEW+ madness….this is the end result of the mythologies underlying Liberalism.

The idea of ownership, of private property, is also contrary to Marxism….

1 Like

To be clear, and perhaps you know this already, but to be clear for other readers of this thread… Marx did not believe in “own nothing be happy”, he believed in common sense private property ownership, such as owning a house, a couch, TV, etc.

What Marx meant by “private property” is he did not believe in one person owning the means of production. He believed in communal ownership of the means of production.

I believe when Marx used the phrase “private property” it was a poor choice of words, had he chose a better statement, then Communism might be more popular today.

1 Like

Mainstream science’s claim is that “philosophy is dead” …..lol…….I’m a philosopher predominantly and yet I know how science works better than the supposed leading scientists in the world….that’s how bad they are. They claim that they and everything else is a misrepresentation of reality (an illusion) as a starting point for their science for heavens sake.They have wasted 300+ years and counting providing nonsense theories to try and back up that claim.The warning signs of their incompetence have always been there.

“it was a poor choice of words, had he chose a better statement”

No intellectual and/or reader would ever assume Marx meant your toothbrush and scooter when he said ‘private property’. That’s why he didn’t say it… or why he didn’t write out ‘private property in the form of the means of…” every time he dropped bombz on paper.

What backward revolutionarily impotent working class people at philosophy forums, coffee shops, and in college classrooms think hundreds of years later is irrelevant. They couldn’t get anything done even if they did know what Marx meant. So it duddint matta.

2 Likes

The example without which there are no examples?

Thread muted until you can provide actual undefeated defeaters for every deductive argument for God’s existence to date.

Let me know.

@Peter_Kropotkin

What’s wrong with the belief in reincarnation?

:clown_face:

@Kallikantzaros

Not Marxism, Anarcho-Trostkyism like the rest of the liberals who want to be liberated from all consequences and reality.

Karl Marx hated the 18th century democratic liberal where he had some harsh words for them and I have no doubt he would of hated today’s liberals even more so if he was still alive.

:clown_face:

@futureone

For the ultra conservatives leaning towards fascism politically it is useless to discuss what Marxism actually is with them, they’ve made up their minds to blame everything on Marxists everywhere.

It’s ironic that it is economic capitalism that is mostly the cause of all their life problems, but point it out they’ll tell you every time it is a part of some grand international Marxist conspiracy. In reality it is a grand capitalist oligarchy conspiracy by corporatists wanting to divide up the entirs world for themselves.

These ultra conservatives worship fascism and capitalism, the very cause of their own suffering because they’re mentally stunted from years of Cold War Reaganomic political propaganda.

:clown_face:

1 Like

Is Satyr really one of those though? He said he is socialist.

1 Like

Ethno-Socialist…because Timocracy is a difficult system to return to.

@Kallikantzaros

How do you define Timocracy?

Here’s what Google AI says about it. How much of the below is accurate?

Timocracy is a form of government where political power is based on honor, worth, or property, often featuring rulers motivated by prestige, martial prowess, and a love of status, with Plato’s Sparta serving as a key example of a society valuing military honor over pure reason. It sits between aristocracy and oligarchy, where leaders are chosen for their “spirited” (thumos) nature and military success, rather than wisdom or wealth alone, but eventually shifts as wealth becomes the primary goal, leading to an oligarchy.

Key characteristics of timocracy:

  • Rule by honor: Leaders are driven by the pursuit of honor, recognition, and prestige, often through military achievement and physical prowess.

  • Property requirement: In some definitions, a certain amount of property or wealth is necessary to hold office, but honor remains the main motivator.

  • Military focus: There’s a strong emphasis on martial virtues, with soldiers and warriors holding significant political sway.

  • Spirited element: The ruling class’s soul is dominated by thumos (spiritedness, pride, anger) rather than reason.

  • Transitional phase: Plato viewed it as a declining form of government, where the focus on honor eventually shifts to a love of money, leading to an oligarchy.

Examples and comparisons:

  • Plato’s Republic: Describes timocracy as a step down from the ideal aristocracy, exemplified by Sparta’s warrior culture.

  • Aristotle’s View: Defined it as a system where political participation is tied to property contributions, giving more power to those who contribute more financially.

  • Modern interpretations: Some suggest elements of timocracy exist in systems that value career status, social media “points,” or wealth accumulation for prestige.

That’s how it was applied in ancient-Greece…..before it was forced to become Democratic, including all those that could not meet the criteria for citizenship..

Democracy was a compromise made due to Timocracy’s success.

Obviously the model must be updated.

It’s basic premise is that citizenship is earned, not a ‘right.’

It is earned through military service and the production of tangible goods - emphasis on ‘tangible’.

Such production requires a certain kind of mind - disciplined, intelligent, patient, involved etc.

This immediately weeds out degenerates, and imbeciles.

Timocratic model can have variants….my preference is for an additional ehtnic criterion for citizenship eligibility, on top of the service and the production criteria.

But others may choose a different criterion.