ZAZEN - Zen Meditation

Lao Tse and Confucius
must be turning in their graves :mrgreen:
One cannot get more lofty than Heaven

That’s super.

But as it stands, I can’t as much disagree with you, because you haven’t even presented an argument. If you can’t do that, that’s fine, but don’t pretend to be a philosopher.

I agree: Zazen is the means to an end and not the end itself - the process does permanently change one’s mind according to the need under which the meditation was undertaken…

Zazen is the harshest form of meditation, but probably the most rewarding in terms of the gains achieved through the forced focusing of the mind…

…and on a lighter note: even hamsters gotta meditate too :laughing:

No one can pretend to be a philosopher
We are all born with the generic inheritance of 100,000 generations of hard-earned self-reflecting ancestral genes.
That is why we are humans and not apes.
Every moment of our lives is a super-natural philosophical construct
It is the reason why you can read and write such nonsense on this thread.
There a is absolutely no need for you to be personally aggressive
let your reasoning stand on its own merits

Mahayana is the only form of Buddhism practiced in Japan
its integration with the fatalism of the indigenous Shintoism in the 12th Century
gives Zen its distinct cultural flavor

I was ordained as a Zen Un Sui in a Japanese training monastery nearly thirty years ago.
I am sure I do not need lectures in Mahayana Buddhism from anybody less than a qualified Roshi

There is no set theological or philosophical dogma in Zen
or it would not be Zen
In essence
who you are and what are
is Zen
even this lofty way of writing
There is only one religious instruction
Sit down and shut up

According to Zen
Hume’s statement is Zen
and he is entitled to that view
and I am entitled to think he is full of crap
I have explained why I think so

Now if you want to debate my counter claim
instead of just snooting at it
Shoot! [-X

I was just stating my experiences with Buddhism, bot presuming to lecturing anyone on it. And for what it’s worth, I’m aware of the spread of Buddhism into Japan and it’s interaction with Shinto, thank you.

My apologies if I’ve disturbed your Zen tranquility! I’ll try to handle you with gloves for now on, if you prefer.

You’re entitled to think whatever you like, but as I say, you aren’t providing a reasoned argument, in which case you aren’t doing philosophy. You haven’t provided an argument as to why Hume’s criticisms are invalid, you’re merely claiming that Hume doesn’t think the way you think, and must be wrong. That isn’t philosophy, that’s dogma.

I would be interested in your first hand views of Shintoism
(not the Wikipedia explanation)
maybe thereafter
with a shared understanding of our respective grasp
of the common ground of the development of human rationality
we can discuss Hume’s superficial remarks

No need for kid gloves
strike as hard as you can
Zen calm and the martial arts work well together
Just remain with Queensbury’s rules

Deleted

The quote here by Hume does not 'contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number’ nor does it 'contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence?'. So by its own logic - which is now self-undermined - it should be consigned to the flames.

That’s a long explanation for sitting down and breathing.

:laughing: indeed!

There is nothing mystical about it, but it does help immensely with the mind/body connection - and from that, many unexplainable-by-science experiences can arise…

There are uncounted volumes explaining it
yet even so
it is amazing how few
get it :mrgreen:

I seriously tried Zen meditation a few years ago. I liked it. Everyone now and then I use sitting meditation to center myself.

But I honestly think that at its essence, it’s just sitting down and breathing.

Zazen -literally - seated meditation
The central concept is to shut down the ceaseless chatter of the analytical side of the brain
and give the intuitive side of the cortex a chance to transmit its secret inspirations
The ultimate goal is satori - ego-death - no observer - separation is an illusion

Keeping extraneous thoughts at bay is a surprisingly difficult feat to accomplish

Counting the breath is the most used technique
The yogi formula is 1/3/2 (inhale for a count of 6 hold for 18. exhale for 12)
Five or ten minutes of this brings on a marvelous sense of mental stillness
TM meditators use a silent mantra
Kriya yogis practice visualization
Advanced Zen technique is called shikantaza - just sitting in constant silent awareness of the self - allowing thoughts to rise and fall without becoming attached to them :slight_smile:

Oh really? :wink:
I didn’t know I was that cool :sunglasses: I went straight into that technique when I started doing Zazen, but from sheer neccessity and fustration…

Some people I know give up at the first hurdle, and declare that they cannot do it/cannot silence their mind, but trying it once and saying you’ve failed isn’t really trying at all - I have come to think that most people would be lost without their mind clutter, for they seem to find security in it, and don’t seem to want to let it go…

It you are a natch - great! That is unusual :slight_smile:

Shikantaza is discouraged for beginners by the Roshi’s. Reason, it is an extremely subtle form of self-observation. Vigilance and honesty is required to make sure one does not slip in and out of daydreaming without realizing it.

It is actually mentally exhausting for beginners and the reason why they quit after a few attempts
Especially those with short attention-spans
Trying to concentrate on nothing is infinitely harder for them
Like physical exercises it is only when one has got through the first few weeks of sore muscles and gets fit
when the exercise becomes pleasurable.

The first spiritual reward I got from meditation
was to wake up one morning after three weeks of morning and evening practice
and find myself over-come by a profound feeling of affection for family
not just my own family
but the entire human family and all our ancestral Ages of struggle
It was a real feeling of love for our neighbors

In all my years of Church going
that was the very first time I actually got the Christ message!
and understood what Confucius was urging about filial piety
That affectionate feeling has never left me since :smiley:

Ditto … :smiley: