Zietgiest

I saw this movie and i was sh*t shocked and i was just wondering if the movie holds any truth. I would appreciate your input. Thanx Des.

I think some of the stuff in the movie might be true. If I’m not mistaken, though, they do make some pretty outrageous claims, such as orphans being radiation exposed or something crazy like that…

When it comes to conspiracy theories, the thing that makes it most difficult to decipher truth from fiction is knowing that humans like to add more significance to an event to comfort themselves into thinking that something so random can’t happen.

Take JFK conspiracy for example. Instead of believing that some no-name, disgruntled American could be the shooter, they instead would rather believe that it was a massive conspiracy against him. Same with MLK, 9/11, etc. I think it’s in our nature to believe that there is something more going on than what appears to be at the surface.

But maybe, sometimes there is.

You wouldn’t believe how often people accuse me of this when explaining some or other conspiracy theory to them. Having met a lot of people who are interested in these events and conspiratorial interpretations of them, I can firmly say that the stereotype is largely that. Not that there aren’t plenty of people who live up to it, there are, and they’re all over the place, but there are plenty of people who don’t live up to it.

Take the JFK conspiracy, some would rather believe it was a lone nut who was himself liquidated a couple of days later in even more suspicious circumstance than that it was executed by the same military and intelligence apparatus that is meant to stop this sort of thing from happening, and that in fact a coup took place in Dallas that day.

All you’re really establishing here is that people believe what they want to. That’s not, in itself, a criticism or validation of any particular belief.

Everything is surface. Your metaphor is ludicrous.

From my experience (and I read a hell of a lot of history), there always is. FDR was financed by the same people as Trotsky and Hitler. If they can do that, then slaughtering 3000 Americans in a terrorist attack is nothing. You ever seen Germany after the war? Or Poland? Or France? Or Russia? Or southern England? 9/11 was fuck all compared to that.

The first part’s essentially bullshit. Though the Jesus story is similar to a lot of prior mythology, and there is some dispute as to who Jesus was, where and when his life took place, none of that is particularly important and it’s just 30 minutes of a not particularly well informed atheist having a bitch about Christianity. If that’s your cup of tea then fine, but I’ve seen it all before and it makes no difference to my opinions.

The bit on 9/11 is okay, though if anything it’s guilty of glossing over the really important stuff. Put simply, this bit is ‘true’, inasmuch as there’s no way in hell 9/11 happened in the way the commission said, or for the reasons they identified. And if you read the inside story written by the two co-chairs of the 9/11 Commission then you’ll start to understand the process that limited the investigation solely to the story that was most politically acceptable.

The last bit again is broadly ‘true’, in that war is an industry that politicians lie about almost non-stop. There are numerous indications that the Cold War was essentially a conflict of two factions controlled by the same people, and so is the War on Terror. Bin Laden is at the very least a former CIA operative, the US did set up Al Qaeda in the first place and has used its particular services on many occasions since.

And there are hundreds of other examples of state sponsored terrorism.

alot of it is true, alot of it isnn’t. some of the claims made about some religions are just careless.

Standard Christian response to the ZietGiest the Movie…“Um.Um.That’s not true!” Whats not true? I’m ready for some real facts disputing this movie, otherwise save your brainwashing for church.

I saw the first 15 or 20 minutes or so and even the true things mentioned were presented sinisterly. I doubt they offered any alternatives to how money is created either. As if they uncovered some sinister plot. No, its just economics and currency.

Most propaganda is produced by the establishment. Zeitgeist is anti-establishment propaganda.

Well Put!

The most amazing thing about these people who indulge in conspiracy theories and even formulate their own, is that you have to admire their perception of the world, in a philosophical sense at least. We all see the world differently, and it amazes me that a group of people can think so differently about a specific event, and the most astonishing aspect of their claims is that they have all this “evidence,” some of it using empirical sciences.

Imagine how the world looks to someone who thinks 9/11 or the Kennedy assassination was a cover-up. It just amazes me how people can think so differently, and I must applaud these “maniacs” for at least putting the spotlight on vague “truths.” The ultimate question one must ask is, what the hell’s so wrong about questioning “truths”? Is it offensive to question the government’s investigation of said events?

Everyone acts as if the truth is the most important morsel in the world, and nothing else is more important. Billions of dollars are spent on drugs and therapy every year to “rehabilitate” people from their “delusions” about the world, bring them back to normalcy, reality. Yet, we never truly investigate for the truth. Here you have people who are at least entertaining the notion of another reality, and instead of investigating their claims we denounce them as pseudo-intellectual dissidents seeking to destroy a truth. It’s just annoying to see people being fed truths, be it about 9/11 or even drugs, instead of being empowered to think for themselves.
This was the point of the film Network (1976), I leave you with the mad prophet speech of Howard Beale:
“Edward George Ruddy died today! Edward George Ruddy was the Chairman of the Board of the Union Broadcasting Systems and he died at eleven o’clock this morning of a heart condition! And woe is us! We’re in a lot of trouble!! So, a rich little man with white hair died. What does that got to do with the price of rice, right? And why is that woe to us? Because you people and 62 million other Americans are listening to me right now.
Because less than 3 percent of you people read books.
Because less than 15 percent of you read newspapers.
Because the only truth you know is what you get over this tube.
Right now, there is a whole, an entire generation that never knew anything that didn’t come out of this tube.
This tube is the gospel, the ultimate revelation.
This tube can make or break presidents, popes, prime ministers.
This tube is the most awesome goddamn force in the whole godless world.
And woe is us if it ever falls into the hands of the wrong people.
And that’s why woe is us that Edward George Ruddy died.
Because this company is now in the hands of CCA – the Communication Corporation of America. There’s a new Chairman of the Board, a man called Frank Hackett, sitting in Mr. Ruddy’s office on the 20th floor. And when the 12th largest company in the world controls the most awesome goddamn propaganda force in the whole godless world, who knows what shit will be peddled for truth on this network.
So, you listen to me. Listen to me!
Television is not the truth. Television’s a goddamn amusement park. Television is a circus, a carnival, a traveling troupe of acrobats, storytellers, dancers, singers, jugglers, sideshow freaks, lion tamers, and football players.
We’re in the boredom-killing business.
So if you want the Truth, go to God.
Go to your gurus.
Go to yourselves!
Because that’s the only place you’re ever gonna find any real truth.
But, man, you’re never gonna get any truth from us. We’ll tell you anything you wanna hear. We lie like hell. We’ll tell you that Kojak always gets the killer and that nobody ever gets cancer at Archie Bunker’s house. And no matter how much trouble the hero is in, don’t worry. Just look at your watch. At the end of the hour, he’s gonna win. We’ll tell you any shit you want to hear.
We deal in illusions, man. None of it is true!
But you people sit there, day after day, night after night – all ages, colors, creeds.
We’re all you know!
You’re beginning to believe the illusions we’re spinning here!
You’re beginning to think that the tube is reality and that your own lives are unreal.
You do whatever the tube tells you –
You dress like the tube.
You eat like the tube.
You raise your children like the tube.
You even think like the tube.
This is mass madness, you maniacs!
In God’s name, you people are the real thing.
We are the illusion!
So turn off your television sets. Turn them off now! Turn them off right now! Turn them off and leave them off. Turn them off right in the middle of this sentence I’m speaking to you now.”

now you listen here buddy, you’re telling me to turn my tv off, something that i pay for.

you are telling me that i pay for things that i dont need and are bad for me!

are you saying that the companies that build tv’s and the brodcasts they put of are stupid?

are you saying that a society controlled through mass media is stupid?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0OrT-8gXMs[/youtube]

Everyone believes in conspiracy theories.
Most people who go on about the irrationality of conspiracies believe what the government says the conspiracy was. In the case of 9/11, for example, you can believe the official government approved conspiracy theory or you can believe some other one.

Thanks for the laugh, I often forget how funny sarcasm can be!

This is exactly why I fancy reading about conspiracies, to see another perception of the world, even though I don’t believe 98% of them.
However, let’s get serious, I don’t care to learn about how Queen Elizabeth of England is actually a lizard or that George Bush is the anti-Christ.

I don’t know if anyone here has heard of Bill Hicks (if not you should, I put him in the same league as George Carlin) or anyone of his stand-up, but he was always talking about the Kennedy assassination, and that’s just one of the reasons why he’s not as famous as he really should be. People actually think it’s unpatriotic to question how actual events that happened right in front of us, quite literally, had been twisted by the government.