Will machines completely replace all human beings?

[Arminius]

If machines are cheaper than human beeings, then machines replace human beings.

Logical implication:

p = machines are cheaper than human beings.
q = machines replace human beings.
p --› q = machines are cheaper than human beings, thus machines replace human beings.

Truth table for a logical implication:

p | q | p --› q
t | t | .. t ..
t | f | .. f ..
f | t | .. t ..
f | f | .. t ..

We know that machines are cheaper than human beings, and we know that machines replace human beings.

But will all human beings completely replaced by machines? All human beings? All? And completely replaced? Completely? By machines? Machines?

What do you think?

[Dan~]

Humans are too pissy to be replaced. Robot slaves will maybe be used to minimize humans eventually, but the humans in control of the machines will not want to be replaced and will keep their control. I think that is how it will go anyway.

[Mr Reasonable]

No, I don't think that machines will completely replace all human beings.

[Dan~]

No, I don't think that machines will completely replace all human beings.

I see cyborgs taking over.

[Mr Reasonable]

I don't think that's gonna happen either Dan. I just don't see it.

[James S Saint]

The question as to whether ALL homosapian will be replaced is a bit like asking if the freight train will stop its downhill acceleration before it reaches the cliff.

You need more Asimo to clean up high tech catastrophes.



But for how long will Asimo need you any more?

People become and remain jobless as long as people don't need people, any more.
The easiest way to use Science to control a population is to do away with the population.
Technology provides all of the ways to get that done, quietly and efficiently.

My question isn't so much about whether homosapain will exist much longer, but rather if any organic life on Earth will. Androids have sufficient cause and ability to dispense with all organic life completely.

[Mr Reasonable]

James...what cause? Do androids have a conception of an ideal world that they wish to enforce? Where is this coming from?

[Arminius]

The question as to whether ALL homosapian will be replaced is a bit like asking if the freight train will stop its downhill acceleration before it reaches the cliff.

Yeah. Do you know the song "Locomotive Breath" of the band "Jethro Tull"?

That's exactly the situation. And it doesn't really matter, whether it is merely in "slow motion" or not.

I remind you of this dialogue:

In Man's lust to be God (to be the determiner of all things), he finds ways of doing without organic life because organic life is not very controllable.

That's MY thoughts!

He has found a great many ways and is pursuing very lustfully right now. So it would take quite a phenomenal event to stop his progress toward his own annihilation as well as that of all organic life.

And perhaps the machines, he created, will help him to bring him to his own extinction, his own annihilation. There will be only one way for last men to survive: the way of becoming cyborgs. But then they will be controlled by rationality, namely by machines outside and inside their own bodies.

One could say (much as it has been said), "God is Jealous" or "God doesn't tolerate competition".

But the christians did make their God, who was once an angry God, a kind of pet or toy. The christian God of the modern times is a nice man with a long beard, and the modern christians themselves are nice as well - as nice as e.g. Nietzsche's "last men". So there is NO THYMOS in the world of christanity, but ONLY EROS, which means that there is no balance or no harmony between this two foci of the ellipse named human soul.

( viewtopic.php?f=4&t=185118&p=2460227#p2460227 )

And I remind you of this dialogue:

Although it is a question of precise detail, I suspect that even the cyborg is not the final form. In the long run, there is no foreseeable need to have even a partial organic body. But perhaps there will be some remnants. The absolutely most efficient form is not friendly to its former self. Once homosapians can no longer procreate with humans (the hue of Man), homosapians are no longer the human species. ....

I didn't want to go in precise details. Anyway there is not necessarily a contradiction between cyborgs and remnants or loss of human procreation (descendants, children).

( viewtopic.php?f=4&t=185118&start=25#p2460256 )

Do you remember these two dialogues about God, humans, cyborgs, and machines?

[James S Saint]

The question as to whether ALL homosapian will be replaced is a bit like asking if the freight train will stop its downhill acceleration before it reaches the cliff.

Yeah. Do you know the song "Locomotive Breath" of the band "Jethro Tull"?

Oh yeah...

Do you remember The Moody Blues... "Cold hearted Orb that rules the night..."


And Iron Butterfly : The Caterpillar, Man.
and?

Iron Maiden;


The Bionic Man
The Bionic Woman
I Robot
.. you WILL love the android.
.. you WILL love the android.
.. you WILL love the android.


And of course.. The Day the Earth Stood Still.

That's exactly the situation. And it doesn't really matter, whether it is merely in "slow motion" or not.

I remind you of this dialogue:

In Man's lust to be God (to be the determiner of all things), he finds ways of doing without organic life because organic life is not very controllable.

That's MY thoughts!

He has found a great many ways and is pursuing very lustfully right now. So it would take quite a phenomenal event to stop his progress toward his own annihilation as well as that of all organic life.

And perhaps the machines, he created, will help him to bring him to his own extinction, his own annihilation. There will be only one way for last men to survive: the way of becoming cyborgs. But then they will be controlled by rationality, namely by machines outside and inside their own bodies.

One could say (much as it has been said), "God is Jealous" or "God doesn't tolerate competition".

But the christians did make their God, who was once an angry God, a kind of pet or toy. The christian God of the modern times is a nice man with a long beard, and the modern christians themselves are nice as well - as nice as e.g. Nietzsche's "last men". So there is NO THYMOS in the world of christanity, but ONLY EROS, which means that there is no balance or no harmony between this two foci of the ellipse named human soul.

( viewtopic.php?f=4&t=185118&p=2460227#p2460227 )

And I remind you of this dialogue:

Although it is a question of precise detail, I suspect that even the cyborg is not the final form. In the long run, there is no foreseeable need to have even a partial organic body. But perhaps there will be some remnants. The absolutely most efficient form is not friendly to its former self. Once homosapians can no longer procreate with humans (the hue of Man), homosapians are no longer the human species. ....

I didn't want to go in precise details. Anyway there is not necessarily a contradiction between cyborgs and remnants or loss of human procreation (descendants, children).

( viewtopic.php?f=4&t=185118&start=25#p2460256 )

Do you remember these two dialogues about God, humans, cyborgs, and machines?

Oh yeah. How could I forget.

[fuse]

I think the future will bring even tighter integration between our carnal selves and technology. I think the natural progression is to continue to better enhance our organic constitutions with increasingly wearable and insertable tech. Gone will be the days when we had to carry all our tech in our hands, e.g. smart phones, tablets, computers and "human interface devices." We will do less interfacing with our tech as it becomes increasingly part of us and synced with our neural impulses rather than a separate machine operated by motor control. Until we get there, though, all this "XBOX On!" voice control business is just an awkward gimmicky phase.

We will continue to create more efficient machines that take over jobs formerly held by people. But ultimately, technology today prevails only as far as it can be successfully operated or programmed by a user. Even the best AI is nowhere near as adaptable, autonomous, or as structurally and behaviorally sophisticated as a human being. Not even close. It's a pretty big deal to be alive, to harness energy and exhibit metabolism, to grow, reproduce, sense and adapt to the environment -- as coded for in self-replicating genetic material. No known tech ever created can be said to be alive or really even close to it. So until that reality starts to look more possible, I don't see machines completely replacing people.

[James S Saint]

The general public is not allowed to see the many things that would scare too many of them, especially scare them away from higher agendas; "technocracy", "serving the master machine", "Religion of Scientism", "Socialism, the S-word".

[Kriswest]

There is a probability that humans will split over advancements in technology. Fanatics on both sides will most likely try to cause war. Hopefully moderates on both sides are far less gullible then they are now.

[James S Saint]

There is a probability that humans will split over advancements in technology. Fanatics on both sides will most likely try to cause war. Hopefully moderates on both sides are far less gullible then they are now.

That thought is what inspires the lust for extreme superiority in hidden technologies.

[Esperanto]

I doubt they will replace us, more like succeed us. If/when the singularity happens I think it will either (1) take over, (2) destroy us, (3) help us, or (4) leave us. This of course depends on the possibility of a machine to attain conscious thought at/beyond that of a human being, and on our ultimate ability to create such a machine. I don't necessarily have faith in the Turing test, since that has only to deal with conversation. A truly intelligent machine must be able to learn and create like a human. Creativity and innovation would be the only signs of actual consciousness that I would accept as definitive.

[Arminius]

My question isn't so much about whether homosapain will exist much longer, but rather if any organic life on Earth will. Androids have sufficient cause and ability to dispense with all organic life completely.

That's an important question and is hidden in my topic because it is possible that machines will outlast ("outlive", "survive"?) all human beings and other beings. And it's known that "androids have sufficient cause and ability to dispense with all organic life completely", as you said. Machines don't need any biological material for being able to remain machines. But they need physico-chemical material. Maybe the machines will annihilate the whole crust of the earth.

Do you remember The Moody Blues ....
And Iron Butterfly ....
Iron Maiden ....

Yes. Especially "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" (Iron Butterfly). Great.

And of course.. The Day the Earth Stood Still.

Yes.

[Kriswest]

There is a probability that humans will split over advancements in technology. Fanatics on both sides will most likely try to cause war. Hopefully moderates on both sides are far less gullible then they are now.

That thought is what inspires the lust for extreme superiority in hidden technologies.

Yep, Can't argue with that at all.

[Orbie]

And when life in general will be threatened by such technologies, a qualitative change will occur in the way thought is processed. It has, actually begun, but we have a long way to go.

[Arminius]

No, I don't think that machines will completely replace all human beings.

I see cyborgs taking over.

And what do you see after the take-over of the cyborgs?
A take-over of the abdroids?
And after the take-over of the androids?
AND AFTER ALL?

[James S Saint]

Mechanisms need no purpose in order to continue for a very long time; thousands, if not millions of years. They need merely opportunity. People design them that way. People, needing purpose in order to overcome natural entropy, create machines needing no purpose but to defeat entropy. Eventually people and their need for purpose becomes the entropy that the machine has been designed to eliminate.

A totally man made machine world, imbued with self interest, "life", will continue for millions, if not billions of years until there is no longer opportunity. Energy, materials, and purpose aren't an issue, merely opportunity.

Those who design your societies think of people and laws as merely mechanisms, but think in terms of people as a combustion fuel, a gasoline engine rather than a magnetic motor. In the form of a magnetic motor, homosapian societies would also last billions of years without death or suffering looming over every generation.

[James S Saint]

An added interesting thought is that since Man can currently absorb energy from nothing but empty space, is designing machines to be 100 times more intelligent and capable than himself, and those machines have no need for purpose, those machines, becoming very efficient at absorbing energy from space and having no concern for consequence, have every reason to become what we call a "Black-hole in space", doing nothing but absorbing energy.

So when they look out in space and they see a black hole, thinking of it as a remnant of a prior event, perhaps the prior event once was a planet with a life on it much the same as Man. Perhaps he is seeing the future state of passion guided organic life, a natural occurring eventual state in the universe - nothing but another "Black-hole in space", his own future.

Of course that is assuming that he doesn't accidentally create a black-hole of himself before that point in blindly corrupting himself.

[fuse]

An added interesting thought is that since Man can currently absorb energy from nothing but empty space, is designing machines to be 100 times more intelligent and capable than himself, and those machines have no need for purpose, those machines, becoming very efficient at absorbing energy from space and having no concern for consequence, have every reason to become what we call a "Black-hole in space", doing nothing but absorbing energy.

So when they look out in space and they see a black hole, thinking of it as a remnant of a prior event, perhaps the prior event once was a planet with a life on it much the same as Man. Perhaps he is seeing the future state of passion guided organic life, a natural occurring eventual state in the universe - nothing but another "Black-hole in space", his own future.

Seriously cool thought

It's hard for me to imagine intelligence without purpose. But even so, what reasoning do you attribute to 100x more intelligent machines absorbing energy endlessly from the universe around them if they have no plan or care to use it for a purpose?

[James S Saint]

It's hard for me to imagine intelligence without purpose. But even so, what reasoning do you attribute to 100x more intelligent machines absorbing energy endlessly from the universe around them if they have no plan or care to use it for a purpose?

A) I happen to know far, far more about what computers can do than you believe possible.
B) For what purpose does an electron orbit a nucleus, forming an atom that lasts for billions of years?
C) Intelligence is merely a mechanism, a more sophisticated form of an electron orbiting an atom.

And "In a Gadda Da Vida" is really "Inna Gadda Da Vida", basically meaning "subsumed to the core with the spirit of life". Doug Ingle didn't repeatedly mispronounce it.

[Kriswest]

If we were highly intelligent we would use them to create colonies in space and ocean. Also give sentient androids citizenship.

[James S Saint]

If we were highly intelligent we would use them to create colonies in space and ocean. Also give sentient androids citizenship.

I don't suppose you have any rationale behind that...?

If we created a new race of homosapian, perhaps purple, what do you think would happen?
..look what happened with the homosexual.

[Arminius]

Mechanisms need no purpose in order to continue for a very long time; thousands, if not millions of years. They need merely opportunity. People design them that way. People, needing purpose in order to overcome natural entropy, create machines needing no purpose but to defeat entropy.

I know, James. Therefore my question in the original post (op) of this thread. And therefore my question or statement of "surviving" in my next-to-last post, and in my last post. The people design and rationalise their own extinction, their own death!

A totally man made machine world, imbued with self interest, "life", will continue for millions, if not billions of years until there is no longer opportunity.

Those who design your societies think of people and laws as merely mechanisms, but think in terms of people as a combustion fuel, a gasoline engine rather than a magnetic motor. In the form of a magnetic motor, homosapian societies would also last billions of years without death or suffering looming over every generation.

Yes, ..., if there will be no wars etc. ....

An added interesting thought is that since Man can currently absorb energy from nothing but empty space, is designing machines to be 100 times more intelligent and capable than himself, and those machines have no need for purpose, those machines, becoming very efficient at absorbing energy from space and having no concern for consequence, have every reason to become what we call a "Black-hole in space", doing nothing but absorbing energy.

So when they look out in space and they see a black hole, thinking of it as a remnant of a prior event, perhaps the prior event once was a planet with a life on it much the same as Man. Perhaps he is seeing the future state of passion guided organic life, a natural occurring eventual state in the universe - nothing but another "Black-hole in space", his own future.

Of course that is assuming that he doesn't accidentally create a black-hole of himself before that point in blindly corrupting himself.

And concerning to my question in the original post (op) and to my question or statement of "surviving" in my next-to-last post, and in my last post, that is also assuming that there will be no human errors (for example: creating machines-with-"self-will"), no wars, no accidents and so on.

Will machines enslave human beings?
Will machines bring the death of all human beings?
Or will the human beings stop creating machines?
Who will longer exist: human beings or machines?

With the utmost probability the machines will "win".