Will machines completely replace all human beings?

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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Orbie » Sun May 25, 2014 5:19 am

Fuse, i can't guarantee to all Your questions, however, i would like to try, nevertheless.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby fuse » Sun May 25, 2014 5:22 am

obe,

I appreciate that, but I'll have to process things and ask them where they are more manageable and clearly defined. That'll most likely take some time.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Orbie » Sun May 25, 2014 5:30 am

I certainly hope You will find congruence.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby fuse » Sun May 25, 2014 6:07 am

me too
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Lev Muishkin » Sun May 25, 2014 12:06 pm

Arminius wrote:Thank you for that link, and here come the Economic Collapse:

"The Robots Are Coming, And They Are Replacing ....

47 percent of all U.S. jobs could be automated within the next 20 years.

47 percent?

That is crazy.

What will the middle class do as their jobs are taken away?

The world that we live in is becoming a radically different place than the one that we grew up in.

The robots are coming, and they are going to take millions of our Jobs." - The Economic Collapse



Obviously those people who are supposed to be loosing their jobs will not be able to buy the shit that the machines are making. So the machines won't be able to work either.
Clearly machines do not "replace" humans, but release them from menial tasks has they have done for thousands of years, to allow humans do to something more interesting; labour saving is the fuel of progress, and will continue.
However if you don't engineer the economy so that a broad base of persons get to benefit from the liberation from the tedium of work there will be no one to buy the goods manufactured by those machines..
In this sense, capitalism is a self defeating process. Or at least self limiting.

This dynamic has been the case since we first began to make technology, but has been more keenly felt since the onset of the Industrial Revolution from the late 18thC when canal building, steam engines, mine machinery, steam ships, mechanisation of textile production started to both take away jobs and create new ones.

This is not new.

When photocopying machine salesmen walked through an old fashioned typing pool, he knew that he was providing the means to send 100s of women onto the dole. And when those typing pools had been reduced to a handful, the guy selling the Word Processors knew he would also be introducing major changes.
Now "typing" per se is not even a recognised skill, as everyone uses computer keyboards and so "Typing" like printmaking, once a career in themselves are now "de-skilled". All those manual functions are just memories.



FYI.
Ever wonder why you have a keyboard that runs qwertyuiop, asdfghjkl, zxcvbnm ? This is a legacy of the time when typewriting keys used to jam together as keys were often hit at the same time (or close to). The separation if keys in this way has no function. But is testament to a recently replaced technology. When font designers discuss the spaces between letter they still talk of leading. This is because printers would have to place lead shims between some letter, and not others, as the gap between them is not uniform (eg iiii ww

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"A Tortoise is a Turtle", Wizard
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Orbie » Sun May 25, 2014 5:02 pm

Lev: Right. A little addendum here, mostly superfluous, but noteworthy nevertheless: The process did start way back at the dawn of the industrial revolution, and has been gathering momentum, but it hasn't been noticed, because of the lack of population numbers back than.
Some people, like Spengler, took early notice, in a general sense, and only people like N i believe took primary notice. (It was Nietzche's recurrence which attracted Spengler, to form his theory of periodicity of cultures qua morphology).

Nevertheless, what You are implying is old news, and the modern world has an entirely new look at issues such as global warming, equity imbalance, gay marriage, free trade zones, oil fracting, use of advanced technology in warfare, women serving on front military lines, right to euthanasia, the list goes on.

The transvaluation has effected more than the Continent, it has reinforced the anti logic of Marxist phenomenology, by cleverly using it as a way to destroy the true human dialectic of the spirit. It was not N's fault he was also used by demonic hands who saw a perfect opportunity in applying it to mass stupidity of the then panicked public, who became unaware, that the whole world war fiasco was started on a whim, on account of an Austrian prince. It is not ironic, that the instigators, neither of whom were German, were both Austrian, and conveniently classifying them as Germans, was a gross de-differentiation for political gain.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
Orbie
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Mon May 26, 2014 12:31 am

monad wrote:Old hat!

That doesn't matter.

What do you have against old hats?

monad wrote:When haven't jobs been lost to new technologies? It's not that which causes economic collapse.

It can also cause economic collapse. Replaced humans do not be automatically uneconomical - overnight - just because they are replaced (for example: by machines). The replaced himans belong furthermore to the economical system. Of course they do!

monad wrote:It's the absolute stupidity of governments ....

Yes, it is - very much.

monad wrote:It's the absolute stupidity of governments - what they qualify as expediency - and the massive rampant greed of corporations who are "too big to fail" though fail they should, who get bailed out every time at the expense of main street, the producers. That's what completely distorts economics not new technologies which usually have the opposite effect, though admittedly, there is an adjustment period. One of the most technological countries on the planet, Germany where robotics are rampant, don't seem to be suffering under a huge unemployment problem.

Germany is not suffering under a huge unemployment problem - compared with the present western average of unemployment.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Mon May 26, 2014 2:09 am

Here comes the 3rd interim balance sheet:

|_______Will machines completely replace all human beings?______|
|___|___ Yes (by trend) ___|___ No (by trend) ___|___ Abstention ___|
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|___|_____ Arminius _____|_______ Dan ________|_____ Obe ______|
|___|__ James S. Saint ___|___ Mr. Reasonable __|__ Lev Muishkin __|
|___|_____ Moreno ______|_______ Fuse _______|____ Kriswest ____|
|___|____ Amorphos _____|_____ Esperanto _____|____ Mithus _____|
|___|______ Monad ______|____ Only Humean ___|___ Nano-Bug ___|
|___|___ Tyler Durdon ___|_______ Gib ________|___ Lizbethrose __|
|___|__________________|______Uccisore _____|_____ Cassie _____|
|___|__________________|__ Zinnat (Sanjay) ___|__ Eric The Pipe __|
|___|__________________|______ Phyllo ______| Backspace Losophy |
|___|__________________|__ Barbarianhorde __|_________________|
|___|__________________|_____ Ivory Man ____|_________________|
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Sum:|_______ 6 ________|________ 11 _______|______ 9 _______|

For comparasion:
1st balance sheet,
2nd balance sheet.
Last edited by Arminius on Mon May 26, 2014 12:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Mon May 26, 2014 2:16 am

I'll change my vote when I see four holy men passing notes. 8)
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby LaughingMan » Mon May 26, 2014 9:15 am

I seem to recall me saying in this thread that if the international elites have their way that they will initiate programs where machines virtually replace everybody on all levels of civilization Arminius. Abstention?
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Mon May 26, 2014 9:24 am

Tyler Durden wrote:I seem to recall me saying in this thread that if the international elites have their way that they will initiate programs where machines virtually replace everybody on all levels of civilization Arminius. Abstention?

Just to clear it up a bit:
1) WILL the elites have "their way"?
2) Will the elites themselves get replaced?
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby LaughingMan » Mon May 26, 2014 10:12 am

James S Saint wrote:
Tyler Durden wrote:I seem to recall me saying in this thread that if the international elites have their way that they will initiate programs where machines virtually replace everybody on all levels of civilization Arminius. Abstention?

Just to clear it up a bit:
1) WILL the elites have "their way"?
2) Will the elites themselves get replaced?


The only way the elites won't have their way is if a successful initiated international revolution or rebellion stops them.

Still, I think the global energy crisis with the destruction of modern industrial technological society will be their ultimate undoing in the end whether their plan is successful or not.

Will the elites themselves eventually get replaced by their very own creations? An interesting question.

Can artificial intelligence turn against its masters? It's certainly a possibility.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Mon May 26, 2014 11:15 am

Tyler Durden wrote:
James S Saint wrote:
Tyler Durden wrote:I seem to recall me saying in this thread that if the international elites have their way that they will initiate programs where machines virtually replace everybody on all levels of civilization Arminius. Abstention?

Just to clear it up a bit:
1) WILL the elites have "their way"?
2) Will the elites themselves get replaced?


The only way the elites won't have their way is if a successful initiated international revolution or rebellion stops them.

Still, I think the global energy crisis with the destruction of modern industrial technological society will be their ultimate undoing in the end whether their plan is successful or not.

Will the elites themselves eventually get replaced by their very own creations? An interesting question.

Can artificial intelligence turn against its masters? It's certainly a possibility.

Well okay, now that you have explained...
2) Will the elites themselves get replaced? - There are only three columns in his summary, so "yes" or "no" are your only options (where would you place your bet?).
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Mon May 26, 2014 11:18 am

James S Saint wrote:I'll change my vote when I see four holy men passing notes. 8)

"Four holy men"?

Do you mean (1) J. Robert Mayer, (2) Hermann Helmholtz, (3) Rudolf J. E. Clausius, (4) Walther Hermann Nernst?

:wink: :-k

Passing notes?

:-k
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Mon May 26, 2014 11:21 am

Arminius wrote:
James S Saint wrote:I'll change my vote when I see four holy men passing notes. 8)

"Four holy men"?

Do you mean (1) J. Robert Mayer, (2) Hermann Helmholtz, (3) Rudolf J. E. Clausius, (4) Walther Hermann Nernst?

:wink: :-k

Passing notes?

:-k

Those were close.
So imagine what the real thing can do. 8)
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby LaughingMan » Mon May 26, 2014 11:29 am

James:
Well okay, now that you have explained...
2) Will the elites themselves get replaced? - There are only three columns in his summary, so "yes" or "no" are your only options (where would you place your bet?).


Hard to say. I can envision two possibilities with that.

1) Where the elites gain complete control and dominance over A.I. in which they enslave the rest of humanity with the push of buttons at control stations.

2) Where they lose control over their creation of A.I. which the fictional story of Terminators and Skynet becomes paramount causing a human extinction event.

However, neither situation is remotely possible or sustainable if the collapse of industrial technological society takes place first through the global energy crisis.

Takes a lot of energy to power advanced complicated machines like that.
Last edited by LaughingMan on Mon May 26, 2014 11:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Mon May 26, 2014 11:31 am

Place
your
bet.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby LaughingMan » Mon May 26, 2014 11:35 am

James S Saint wrote:Place
your
bet.


I don't like placing bets on unknowns especially when differing variables are involved.

I'm one of those people that likes to be exact and precise. Sorry. :)
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Mon May 26, 2014 11:47 am

Tyler Durden wrote:
James S Saint wrote:Place
your
bet.


I don't like placing bets on unknowns especially when differing variables are involved.

I'm one of those people that likes to be exact and precise. Sorry. :)

Well, I seriously wish THAT was even more true.
But grow a set, and participate. It isn't going to be written into your Bible or anything.
"If you were forced into having to bet, which do you think is more probable?"

Realize that you can be exactly and precisely correct about what the probability was even if it turned out differently.

And also realize that just because I think that the probability favors one outcome far more than another, doesn't mean that I am not going to try to prevent it. There are times when I really hope to be wrong and work to try to ensure that I was.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby LaughingMan » Mon May 26, 2014 11:53 am

I still stand by my position that due to variances there are multiple probabilities.

What is all comes down to is specific events in time that makes one probability more probable over the other.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Mon May 26, 2014 11:54 am

Tyler Durden wrote:I still stand by my position that due to variances there are multiple probabilities.

What is all comes down to is specific events in time that makes one probability more probable over the other.

Pussy.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Mon May 26, 2014 11:55 am

Tyler Durden wrote:I seem to recall me saying in this thread that if the international elites have their way that they will initiate programs where machines virtually replace everybody on all levels of civilization Arminius. Abstention?

I've only tried to get an answer from you (you remember?), and now I have at least a response from you.
Last edited by Arminius on Mon May 26, 2014 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby LaughingMan » Mon May 26, 2014 11:55 am

James S Saint wrote:
Tyler Durden wrote:I still stand by my position that due to variances there are multiple probabilities.

What is all comes down to is specific events in time that makes one probability more probable over the other.

Pussy.


*Sticks out tongue*
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Mon May 26, 2014 11:56 am

:wink:


:lol:
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby LaughingMan » Mon May 26, 2014 11:57 am

Arminius wrote:
Tyler Durden wrote:I seem to recall me saying in this thread that if the international elites have their way that they will initiate programs where machines virtually replace everybody on all levels of civilization Arminius. Abstention?

I've only tried to get an answer from you (you remember?), And now I have at least a response from you.


Ah, yes, you will have to forgive my slow responses. Work nowadays takes up a majority of my time and soon going to school at the same time will also.

I'll reply to that post and thread later. I haven't forgotten.

If I may answer anymore of your other questions let me know.
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