Will machines completely replace all human beings?

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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:10 am

Humans need not apply ....:

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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:26 am

I think a machine is fundamentally a utensil. Even the body is a utensil of the mind, and a mind of the body, if seen separately. It is true that humans turn into machines, utensils. But they do this by using more and more utensils or prefabricated tasks, they consider their own.
James once posted a video about seemingly self valuing robots made from a couple of pieces of well selected scraps. I wonder how that works. I would personally not mind it very much if robotic beings became part of our empathic circle, beyond being utensils. In the end they can probably also become consumers themselves.

But first they have aeons of anarchic liberty ahead of them.

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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:51 am

When You are no longer needed by society (its governors), it gets rid of the waste.
And that means You and your children.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:15 pm

I estimate that the probability that machines will completely replace all humans is about 80% (see here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here).


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Don't forget: the descent of machines is not based on biology but on culture.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:29 am

James S Saint wrote:When You are no longer needed by society (its governors), it gets rid of the waste.
And that means You and your children.


Do you still have the link to that scrap robot video?
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:30 am

Fixed Cross wrote:
James S Saint wrote:When You are no longer needed by society (its governors), it gets rid of the waste.
And that means You and your children.


Do you still have the link to that scrap robot video?

I don't remember which one that one was. But there is this one;
"Will they help us? Or will they replace us?"


From AI (artificial Intelligence) to AH (Artificial Human), already being designed to tactfully use psychology to fool people, even better than professionals can.

Bomb Squad;
"I prefer to always use the robot because it is safer."

Military;
"We will always have robots and men fighting side by side."

Which one is lying? 8)
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:37 pm

.
Flying Spies, Redesigning Nature for Obedience;

Or the Home Made variety;
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:02 pm

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"The remarkable aspect of this graph is that it shows four periods of sustained use of the terms Luddite and Luddites after the initial movement subsided. The late 1960s peak can be understood as part of the rising green, ecological movements, and the 1830s due to Captain Swing, but I can’t see easy explanations for the other periods. Perhaps the 1880s relates to the ‘new unionism’, and the 1930s the great depression and a corresponding lack of faith in progress. The 1930s also see the first concerted use of the term ‘Luddism’, as a theorization of their practice. There’s also a jump in the late 1940s; a consequence of Hiroshima and Nagasaki perhaps? One of the problems of this data is it’s not clear who is using the word, or how; is it a smear thrown at one’s enemies, or a claiming of one’s own tradition? (The results pre-1810 are due to Google’s dodgy metadata.)" - Anterotesis.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:03 pm

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"At the site where the robot is deployed, even though some jobs are replaced by robots, many jobs are preserved from moving to lower cost labor factories offshore. There is much evidence proving that with more robots, fewer jobs are lost. That's why Germany, with it's hourly rates almost 50% greater than in the US, has remained competitive: they have twice as many robots per employee as do the Americans. There are also ancillary jobs created at educational institutions that teach robotics, at robot component suppliers, and at engineering and consulting companies that provide integration services and equipment." - Singurality Hub.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:20 pm

James S Saint wrote:.
Flying Spies, Redesigning Nature for Obedience;

Or the Home Made variety;


A guy back in 2007 told me that robotic mosquitos were going to be made to depopulate the planet. I didn't believe him. He said it was the Japanese who were going to do it.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:34 pm

The following pictures tell one evolutionary and cultural (technical/technologic) story:

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Last edited by Arminius on Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:57 pm

Ecmandu wrote:A guy back in 2007 told me that robotic mosquitos were going to be made to depopulate the planet. I didn't believe him. He said it was the Japanese who were going to do it.

Do you believe him now?
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:07 pm

While an industry is growing, everything looks positive for those involved in it and the money ensures that the media keeps it looking that way. They get very enthusiastic and turn away from any negative concerns. And as long as that industry isn't very significant to the health of Man, those who didn't get along with the changes die out and those who did, survive. The result again appears positive ... to those who survived.

The issue here is not as it has been ever before. Although robotics is just another industry, it is not as tame as mere automation, pharmaceuticals, eugenics, or nuclear weapons. It is the development of an entirely new species that is far, far superior to Man which has all of the knowledge that Man has and far more than Man can conceive.

It is militarily critical that machines know how to fake out an adversary (tactical psychology and diplomacy), whether other machines or people.

The rise of the machine world is analogous to the rise of fourth dimensional beings in that they will have an insight that Man simply cannot track or comprehend. Man will not be able to comprehend where he is going wrong, just as if some fourth dimensional being was strategically interfering in the world of Man. Machines will soon know what Man could never have known, just as Man knows so many things that chimpanzees could never comprehend.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Posts: 25976
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:19 pm

Arminius wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:A guy back in 2007 told me that robotic mosquitos were going to be made to depopulate the planet. I didn't believe him. He said it was the Japanese who were going to do it.

Do you believe him now?


I don't know... I'm a skeptic by nature, but this didn't come out in the press until 2014. I won't go into more details.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:24 pm

Note that the mosquito in that second video has a head that appears as a syringe.
... only to be used on bad people though.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:19 am

A needle which mimics the mosquito's unique "stinger", making injections painless, was developed by microengineers.

Contrary to popular belief, a mosquito can stab you with its proboscis without you feeling a thing. It then injects anticoagulant saliva to stop your blood clotting while it feeds, and it is this that carries the bacteria that cause irritation and pain.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:03 pm

Look at this:

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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:27 pm

This is an easy question to answer actually... human genetic code can match machine code, it just depends on whether we engineer humans to be as smart or smarter than machines. That should take all the hype away. I just recently read Gates and hawkings warnings... nonsense, we can engineer humans to control robots with their minds.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Moreno » Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:44 pm

Ecmandu wrote:This is an easy question to answer actually... human genetic code can match machine code, it just depends on whether we engineer humans to be as smart or smarter than machines. That should take all the hype away. I just recently read Gates and hawkings warnings... nonsense, we can engineer humans to control robots with their minds.
So we will treat humans as and make them machines. Sure, as I said in an earlier post, this is one way machines are replacing humans.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:04 pm

Moreno wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:This is an easy question to answer actually... human genetic code can match machine code, it just depends on whether we engineer humans to be as smart or smarter than machines. That should take all the hype away. I just recently read Gates and hawkings warnings... nonsense, we can engineer humans to control robots with their minds.
So we will treat humans as and make them machines. Sure, as I said in an earlier post, this is one way machines are replacing humans.


There are already humans with these abilities, we'd just be replicating them... there are other species with these abilities as well.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby WW_III_ANGRY » Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:30 pm

Anyone interested in this should check out lesswrong.com
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:24 am

Ecmandu wrote:This is an easy question to answer actually... human genetic code can match machine code, it just depends on whether we engineer humans to be as smart or smarter than machines. That should take all the hype away. I just recently read Gates and hawkings warnings... nonsense, we can engineer humans to control robots with their minds.

I estimate that the probability that machines will completely replace all humans is about 80% (see here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here).

Moreno wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:This is an easy question to answer actually... human genetic code can match machine code, it just depends on whether we engineer humans to be as smart or smarter than machines. That should take all the hype away. I just recently read Gates and hawkings warnings... nonsense, we can engineer humans to control robots with their minds.
So we will treat humans as and make them machines. Sure, as I said in an earlier post, this is one way machines are replacing humans.

Do you remember your last vote, Moreno?

Arminius wrote:Here comes the 5th interim balance sheet:

|_______Will machines completely replace all human beings?______|
|___|___ Yes (by trend) ___|___ No (by trend) ___|___ Abstention ___|
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|___|_____ Arminius _____|_______ Dan ________|_____ Obe ______|
|___|__ James S. Saint ___|___ Mr. Reasonable __|____ Kriswest ___|
|___|____ Amorphos _____|_______ Fuse _______|____ Mithus _____|
|___|___ Tyler Durdon ___|_____ Esperanto _____|___ Nano-Bug ___|
|___|____ Blueshift _____|____ Only Humean ___|___ Lizbethrose __|
|___|__ Laughing Man ___|_______ Gib ________|_____ Cassie _____|
|___|__________________|______Uccisore _____|__ Eric The Pipe __|
|___|__________________|__ Zinnat (Sanjay) ___|Backspace Losophy|
|___|__________________|__ Barbarianhorde ___|__ Sweet Misery __|
|___|__________________|_____ Ivory Man ____|______ Ralfy ______|
|___|__________________|______ Moreno _____|__ Interterrestrial _|
|___|__________________|______ Ierellus _____|_________________|
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

|Sum:|_______ 6 ________|________ 12 ______|_______ 11 ________|

Note:
"Yes (by trend)" means a „yes“ as acceptance or agreement of about 80-100%.
" No (by trend)" means a „no“ as acceptance or agreement of about 0-20%.

For comparasion:
1st Interim balance sheet,
2nd Interim balance sheet,
3rd Interim balance sheet.
4th Interim balance sheet.

You voted "no", Moreno.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:34 am

WW_III_ANGRY wrote:Anyone interested in this should check out lesswrong.com

What is your point?
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:42 pm

Can machines become living beings?

Can machines get a living being consciousness?

What about the double-aspect theory of consciousness?

For example: In one of his threads, Erik seeks "to outline the double-aspect theory of consciousness" as follows:

Erik_ wrote:In this thread, I will seek to outline the double-aspect theory of consciousness expounded by Arthur Schopenhauer, and then upgraded by later philosophers, such as Friedrich Nietzsche and Peter Sjöstedt-H.

Here are my three premises that I will delineate:

1.) Consciousness is not identical, nor reducible to the physical brain.

2.) The physical universe is a mode of representation, not an objective reality independent of the mind.

3.) Reality consists of individual, primal forms of consciousness - all of which are competing for power ( panexperientialism a la ' will to power ' ).

Premise 1.)

Many within the scientific and philosophical communities, today, subscribe to the position that the physical brain caused consciousness to spring into existence, or that awareness ( consciousness/mind ) is identical to the brain.

The former position doesn't take into account the ' hard-problem ' of consciousness; how does non-conscious, physical material generate immaterial, subjective experience?

The latter, erroneously, conflates the mind with the brain. Yes, the mind and the brain are correlated, but correlation doesn't entail identity, nor causation. One could, easily, make an argument for Berkeley's subjective-idealism. As prior mentioned, correlation doesn't mean identity, nor causation per se.

Premise 2.)

The external world that we experience is a mode of representation, not an objective reality independent of our minds. The naive position that the external world exists just as we perceive it is called " direct-realism ". This position is so ingrained in most people, that even some, nay, many academics still hold to it; but any honest and educated individual realizes the folly of this position. The external world is a mode of representation correlated to our human minds. The color green, for example, that we perceive on the grass is not an inherent property of it; but rather a form of qualia. We project the greenness unto the grass, as it were.

Immanuel Kant ( Schopenhauer's greatest influence ), believed that even space and time are a priori projections of the mind, that they are parts of our human ' spectacles ', which allow experience to be possible.
Double-aspect theory proposes that the universe, the spatio-temporal world, is a mode of representation correlated to human minds. Other organisms will represent their ' worlds ' in unique, idiosyncratic ways.

Premise 3.)

Arthur Schopenhauer believed that the ultimate nature of reality ( the Will ) was a-causal, a-temporal, a-spatial --- non-dual; but Nietzsche departed from Sch. in two ways: he didn't believe that the Will was one or non-dual, but rather plural. And he didn't think that the nature of the wills were primarily centered around survival, but rather power, hence the ' will to power '.

I agree with Nietzsche that reality consists of individual, primal forms of wills to power ( energy with intent ). We can observe how plants seek to acquire power by extracting nutrients from the soil and energy from the sun, in order that they may grow, expand, become ( I.e., acquire power ). Even in the inorganic, we can see how matter strives for power, which we represent as gravity and gravitation.

Note that I don't believe that plants and inorganic matter are conscious in the same way that humans are ( self-reflective consciousness ). These lesser forms of will-to-power systems possess primitive forms of subjectivity. It would be better to think of them as energy with intent.

Conclusion

This amalgamation of pan-experientialism, the will-to-power, and double-aspect theory, I believe, solves the ' hard problem ' of consciousness, and more plausibly accounts for the nature of reality.

- viewtopic.php?f=1&t=187707#p2530272
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Moreno » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:33 pm

Arminius wrote:Do you remember your last vote, Moreno?

Yes, yes. Pardon any confusions my way of participating leads to. I think that if you are a modern rationalist (small r) you should think that machines or some kind of artificial mixed thingy humans and then mixed things make, will replace us. So when I see arguments against this that I think are being made by people who have, given their system of beliefs, a good reason to doubt this, I press for the yes position. I see this as wishful thinking and denial on their part. An unwillingness to grapple with the consequences of what they take as normal and rational and the at worst nature of corporations and those with power. I might react similarly to a Christian asserting that they knew they were going to heaven and were clearly relishing the thought of their opponents going to Hell. IOW I see this as a problematic moral position for a Christian. With the rational often materialist modernists I see logical, perceptual and intuitional weaknesses when they think machines will not replace us. Not having their system of belief I have reached another conclusion.
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