Will machines completely replace all human beings?

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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:43 pm

Kriswest wrote:I remember enjoying that series as a little kid.

You'd be amazed as to how much of those original series applies to today's society. But of course they remade the series in the 90's, leaving out sensitive issues. There were other robot vs man issues in that series. Rod Serling was every bit as good as Orson Wells.

This is his sales pitch to his prospective advertisers;
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Kriswest » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:57 pm

Oh I know, :) they had reruns even waaay back then.. I probably saw each one a few times at least. They were very spot on in some cases. I tried the remakes, hated them. I don't have the thirty minutes to watch the vid but, knowing that character, it would be worth the time if I had it.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Orbie » Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:51 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Kriswest wrote:I remember enjoying that series as a little kid.

You'd be amazed as to how much of those original series applies to today's society. But of course they remade the series in the 90's, leaving out sensitive
issues. There were other robot vs man issues in that series. Rod Serling was every bit as good as Orson Wells.



This is his sales pitch to his prospective advertisers;





Incidentally Serling was one of the first cardiac bypass patients, and he died on the operating table during surgery. I guess technology has not quite caught up to the facing challenges. The earliest ventures always come with risk.
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Full well your need-as
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servant now.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby 1mpious » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:15 am

Arminius wrote:
1mpious wrote:The real truth of it is, many roles cannot be performed by machines.

Not yet, but in the future machines will be able to do it.

I spose.
'Up and down, round and round, let's get down now upside down' :evilfun:
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Orbie » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:20 am

no suppose. People are not totally uninformed. They know of the existence of the pyramid of power. The very tip of the pyramid leaves space for only 1 man, and if the machinery is left to its own devices, he will be the only one left: He will be crazy from the
beginning in the sense that he will delusional ly beleive his aim to be God, to begin with. But long before that, he will be institutionalized. This sort of
scenario is not very realistic, and it is against all rules
of set theory and probability. If 20 percent survive, it will be easy to control the other 80, while at the same time controlling the progression of machine
power/ unless they loose control, which is highly
unlikely, given the simultanious progress of human intelligence.
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In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Artimas » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:28 am

It depends upon the extent of a machines design if it will replace human being or not. Perhaps, it is possible.

Even nothing, is something.
If one is to live balanced with expectations, then one must learn to appreciate the negative as well, to respect darkness in its own home.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Orbie » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:33 am

Artimas wrote:It depends upon the extent of a machines design if it will replace human being or not. Perhaps, it is possible.


Why would other then a self destructive mad scientist
design a program of total destruction? The argument that the machine takeover will be deceptively progressive, should be forseen earlier by human
intelligence.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Artimas » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:49 am

Orb wrote:
Artimas wrote:It depends upon the extent of a machines design if it will replace human being or not. Perhaps, it is possible.


Why would other then a self destructive mad scientist
design a program of total destruction? The argument that the machine takeover will be deceptively progressive, should be forseen earlier by human
intelligence.



Not only mad scientists.. mistakes can be made.

Einstein and other scientists gave us the Atom bomb, were they destructive mad scientist? He never intended it be used for war, in fact he regretted even discovering it all shortly after.

Even nothing, is something.
If one is to live balanced with expectations, then one must learn to appreciate the negative as well, to respect darkness in its own home.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Orbie » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:31 pm

In a sense a distinction can be made with the atom bomb, where there was no appearent viable choice, The 3rd Reich needed it as the promised super weapon to clinch victory, and allied intelligence cracked the code by which this was discovered. it became a panick to do it first. Einstein, Heisenberg and others worked on it's theoretical basis to be sure.

In the present scenario, the summa of technology is artificial intelligence, where the control needs to retain control, and there is no way I can see, where they will abdicate this, to any one or thing. So the ultimate question is whether artificial intelligence would ever successfully be able to override the controls imposed upon it. I really doubt it, because there is as of yet no innovative quality assigned to computer systems of bio feedback replication, giving it a totally open ended field.

Quantified systems can exceed human 'intelligence' as exemplified by the chess supercomputer Deep Blue's vis toy over the world chess champion years ago, but a requalification can be set up in an alternate system, where that too can be defeated.That is the weakness of machine thinking, it cannot differentiate between system error in other systems, in order to re qualify opponents on basis of ranking.

A non existent anti program would be set against it with totally irregular sequential moves, it would be defeated.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
Orbie
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Orbie » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:33 pm

This is hypothetical since I am not aware that anything like this has yet been attempted.-actually deep junior and fritz in 2003 tied kasparov and no recent rematches occured since. This proves, if anything, that intelligence at the moment is at a draw between human and machine minds.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:55 pm

orb,

This proves, if anything, that intelligence at the moment is at a draw between human and machine minds.


I don't think we've gotten that far yet orb. lol
What about human consciousness? Where is THAT in relation jto machine so-called [minds] and I use the term here loosely?lol
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Orbie » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:12 pm

Arc, the implication was not, that at this time, computers can equal the capacity of human minds , or even outpreform them, but- it is in the works. The opinion of those here, and within the general population is, that in certain functions there is a very big potential, a possibility, that in the foreseeable future this will be the case.
Usually, in case of reasonable prediction in technological progress, the probabilities will affirm the possibilities, and arrive at crtainty at a critical point.
The impotant thing here, is not that this will ever happen, but whwther the control issues coud be disposed of in favor of human intelligence. Some talk of hybrids,between the machine and the human, a cyborg-like scenario, where a smoothly functioning interchange, or switch, if you may, may somehow de-differentiate any and all conflict.

I would think, this may be the coming thing, but here again, the very basic ontological notions of as of yet infinite regress between mind and matter will re-occur, ths time possibly, with alarming consequences.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
Orbie
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Orbie » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:17 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:orb,

This proves, if anything, that intelligence at the moment is at a draw between human and machine minds.









I don't think we've gotten that far yet orb. lol


What about human consciousness? Where is THAT in relation jto machine so-called [minds] and I use the
term here loosely?lol

Again , and i missed this, the same applies with human consciousness versus brain transactions. In the cyborg, the problem will become acute, since computers may at some point develop self consciousness, where theybecome aware od thei differential reduction into pure material, a state IT may no want to sutain. They may want to develop the kind of intelligence , by way of their own evolution, which would enable them to utilize human eings to graft human form thus consciousness unto their extraordinarily advanced intelligence. At this point, the ETHICAL considerations may come into play to avert catasgrophy.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
Orbie
partly cloudy, with a few showers
 
Posts: 7596
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Orbie » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:19 pm

Sorry again, i am working on editing, will see someone today about it. Hopefully will clear up this problem.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
Orbie
partly cloudy, with a few showers
 
Posts: 7596
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:34 pm
Location: Night of infinite faith

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:05 am

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=185562&start=1275#p2507193
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=185562&start=1275#p2507194
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=185562&start=1275#p2507195
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=185562&start=1275#p2507197

Some (unfortunately mostly too powerful) people are crazy, others too stupid. That is a very dangerous mix of madness and stupidity and yields the greatest of all mistakes the more powerful the powerful people and the more stupid the stupid people are.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Moreno » Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:02 pm

Been reading Mindless

http://www.amazon.com/Mindless-Smarter- ... 0465018440

which is a slightly different facet of the transition we are undergoing than I have seen before.
It deals with computer systems that simplify and organize management and are making management smaller -iow part of removing the middle class- and the jobs of middle management more boring and much faster. IOW taking the kinds of streamlining from manufacturing, starting back when with Ford's assembly lines, and using this as a model for all types of management - including healthy care, hotels, banking, social work and more - and then computerizing it, companies, and most of the large ones now do this, and state run companies, can effectivize the process through which a specific process takes place - say a loan application and approval process, or the intake of a patient all the way to discharge - AND allow upper management to monitor, in real time - talk about a panopticon - exactly what they mid and lower managers are doing. So the programs 1) lay out the decision making process for the managers 2) create data about speed and effectiveness from hundreds of different angles of individuals, departments and so on and 3) allow for direct monitoring. This is a happening all over the place, in most fields. So the repetitive, highly controlled, brave new world type control that US and Japanese manufacturing plants could use to scientifically manage and control all movements and actions of their working class employees, has now spread to middle class and professional and service type jobs, departments and companies.

The chapters on Amazon and Walmart give a good sense of just how horrifying this is and also give a sense of what this will mean for more skilled positions.

So it is a replacement of human actions and mental facilities by machines - but not yet in an AI way - worse it makes the panopticon more present, and also leads to humans acting as cogs in a machine at higher levels then ever before in organizations.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:55 am

Moreno wrote:Been reading Mindless

http://www.amazon.com/Mindless-Smarter- ... 0465018440

which is a slightly different facet of the transition we are undergoing than I have seen before.
It deals with computer systems that simplify and organize management and are making management smaller -iow part of removing the middle class- and the jobs of middle management more boring and much faster. IOW taking the kinds of streamlining from manufacturing, starting back when with Ford's assembly lines, and using this as a model for all types of management - including healthy care, hotels, banking, social work and more - and then computerizing it, companies, and most of the large ones now do this, and state run companies, can effectivize the process through which a specific process takes place - say a loan application and approval process, or the intake of a patient all the way to discharge - AND allow upper management to monitor, in real time - talk about a panopticon - exactly what they mid and lower managers are doing. So the programs 1) lay out the decision making process for the managers 2) create data about speed and effectiveness from hundreds of different angles of individuals, departments and so on and 3) allow for direct monitoring. This is a happening all over the place, in most fields. So the repetitive, highly controlled, brave new world type control that US and Japanese manufacturing plants could use to scientifically manage and control all movements and actions of their working class employees, has now spread to middle class and professional and service type jobs, departments and companies.

The chapters on Amazon and Walmart give a good sense of just how horrifying this is and also give a sense of what this will mean for more skilled positions.

So it is a replacement of human actions and mental facilities by machines - but not yet in an AI way - worse it makes the panopticon more present, and also leads to humans acting as cogs in a machine at higher levels then ever before in organizations.

Do you now answer the question whether machines will completely replace all human beings more differently, perhaps even with „yes“?
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Moreno » Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:49 pm

Arminius wrote:
Moreno wrote:Been reading Mindless

http://www.amazon.com/Mindless-Smarter- ... 0465018440

which is a slightly different facet of the transition we are undergoing than I have seen before.
It deals with computer systems that simplify and organize management and are making management smaller -iow part of removing the middle class- and the jobs of middle management more boring and much faster. IOW taking the kinds of streamlining from manufacturing, starting back when with Ford's assembly lines, and using this as a model for all types of management - including healthy care, hotels, banking, social work and more - and then computerizing it, companies, and most of the large ones now do this, and state run companies, can effectivize the process through which a specific process takes place - say a loan application and approval process, or the intake of a patient all the way to discharge - AND allow upper management to monitor, in real time - talk about a panopticon - exactly what they mid and lower managers are doing. So the programs 1) lay out the decision making process for the managers 2) create data about speed and effectiveness from hundreds of different angles of individuals, departments and so on and 3) allow for direct monitoring. This is a happening all over the place, in most fields. So the repetitive, highly controlled, brave new world type control that US and Japanese manufacturing plants could use to scientifically manage and control all movements and actions of their working class employees, has now spread to middle class and professional and service type jobs, departments and companies.

The chapters on Amazon and Walmart give a good sense of just how horrifying this is and also give a sense of what this will mean for more skilled positions.

So it is a replacement of human actions and mental facilities by machines - but not yet in an AI way - worse it makes the panopticon more present, and also leads to humans acting as cogs in a machine at higher levels then ever before in organizations.

Do you now answer the question whether machines will completely replace all human beings more differently, perhaps even with „yes“?
No. But I understand why you ask the question.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:56 pm

Moreno wrote:
Arminius wrote:Do you now answer the question whether machines will completely replace all human beings more differently, perhaps even with „yes“?
No. But I understand why you ask the question.

I asked not because I wanted you to say "yes" but I asked beacuse I wanted to make sure that I had not misunderstood you.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:34 am

Please describe me your impressions:
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

What do you think? :-k
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:42 am

Arminius wrote:Image
Image

Those two most depict the truth of it.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:52 am

Yes. The truth ist that they are machines and replace humans.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:33 pm

Look at the picture again:

Image
They all look more sad than happy.

Do you agree?
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:14 pm

Orb wrote:
Artimas wrote:It depends upon the extent of a machines design if it will replace human being or not. Perhaps, it is possible.


Why would other then a self destructive mad scientist
design a program of total destruction? The argument that the machine takeover will be deceptively progressive, should be forseen earlier by human
intelligence.

Orb, humans are no intelligent enough. And most of the scientists do what they do not because of superiority but because of interest, curiosity, trial, and error (!). In other words: most of the scientists are not intelligent enough to control what they do. Moreover: most of the scientists are not controlled by themselves, as it should be; they are controlled by the rulers, as it should not be; and the rulers are also not intelligent enough to control what they do. Thus: humans are not intelligent enough.
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