Will machines completely replace all human beings?

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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Sat May 09, 2015 8:29 pm

zinnat13 wrote:J - nan·o·bot (năn′ō-bŏt′)
n.
A microscopic robot built from nanoscale components, typically 0.1 to 10 micrometers in length.

James, that is precisely the issue. This scale is not nanoscale. Things up to 10-6 are micro ones, not nano, unless you want to define in such a way.

The motor portion of what they were showing was most definitely below 10,000 nanometers. Your arguments as to why it "should not" be called an "electric motor" is pedantic, irrelevant, and a bit .. ummm .. "youthful".

zinnat13 wrote:J - You seem stuck on being pedantic about irrelevancies, presumptuous about details, and wishful with your conclusions. Rather than fully accept the truth, you seem to want to convince yourself and others of your preferences (much like on other topics).

Believe what you wish to believe if that is your only source of hope.

S - James, this motor does not give me any fear or hope, whether it is feasible or not. I am not sure how that even relevant either.

My argument against this is purely on the grounds of physics, not my religious beliefs, if that is your thinking.

With love,
Sanjay

What you are doing is exactly how religions get formed. Someone reveals a logical train of thought and out of a wish to believe (or even disbelieve) it all becomes a matter of supporting the pro or the con of the issue (the for or the against), egotism, religiosity.

You are obviously hoping that they do not succeed. I am not hoping one way or the other. I know that they will even though I still believe that it is a bad idea. I would wish that they don't succeed, but I am not willing to lie in order to try to stop them (as with a great many other issues).

No, you are not talking physics, merely hope that Man cannot do what you disfavor.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby zinnat » Sun May 10, 2015 5:35 am

James,

You confirmed what I was guessing.

You are thinking that I am trying to counter their claim because either I do not see it in the virtue or it clashes with my religious beliefs, but neither is true.

As far as any invention or knowledge is concerned, it always remains in the state of a third person. Means, it is neither good or bad in itself but depends on its use.

Atomic energy can light millions of houses but kill those Millon's too in the same breath. A killer can take a life with a knife bit the same knife can save a life too in the hands of a surgeon. The same is with this nano thing too. It can be very useful or very dangerous too but that is not the issue of here.

The only issue pertinent here is the pheasibility of true manmade and controlled nano machine. That is all.

Secondly, whether it is pheasible or not, does not have any bearing on my beliefs/ideology either. What I want may be different from the ground reality in this case, which happens many times, though I do not have much issue with this nano thingy. I am not sure how you concluded that.I do not see any extraordinary bad implications of this nano exploration.

The biggest concern for me is our education system; how we handle our teachers and children, which again do not have any relation with my religious beliefs.

James, I am looking at this nano motor purely from scientific/philosophical perspective, not ethical. I do not not see its happening just because that scale itself forbids that.

I am not sure whether you understood my perspective or not. Let me try it rephrase it.

There are some compounds of silver which reacts with the light. If we put them in the sunlight, the reactions would start happening. In other words, the energy of photons will be used for chemical reactions. Right.

And, we know that this event will be played out at nano level or even beyond that. There is no other way of happening that either. Now, we put all this into vacuum and absolute zero temperature under the controlled light and use ETM and see it happening at nano level. But, would it be justified to claim that we have created and controlled things at nano level?

That is precisely my objection. The precision is more in
observation or measurement, not in the making per se.

With love,
Sanjay
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby zinnat » Mon May 11, 2015 7:03 am

Arminus - Is it possible that you are occupied by your idea?

Sanjay - Quite possible. That happens to everyone. The trick is being able to entertain other or even opposite ideas at the same time. That is what objectivity is.

Arminus - By whom or what are they made? By God(s)? By nature?

Sanjay - By nature/existence itself.

Arminus -By nature? Do you have evidence?

Sanjay - What else evidence is required when we see it happening all around automatically!

Arminus - Show us your evidence, Zinnat

Sanjay - Arminus, I was talking about definitions, and they do not have evidences. Definitions are proposed benchmarks for any thing, real or imaginary.

I think that perhaps you are asking for the explanations for different definitions of nano. Though, I have provided in the last post but let me put those again in simpler way.

There are two different scales; micro and nano. Micro means 10-6 while nano means 10-9, if we go by the original propagators of the concepts. But, over the time, the term nano is used more like a metaphor for all small things, instead of its true definition.

We have only breached micro level successfully do far, not nano level. The attempts are on to make and control nano level things. Yes, we can now measure events at nano level under some artificially enforced extreme circumstances. That is our actual present status.

But, what happens sometimes in popular media and even in scientific circles too, that things are either misrepresented or blown out of the proportion. Such futuristic claims are made which are impossible. And, it is not my opinion only but many others also share it, including experts of that field, as I quoted in my previous posts too.

The term nanotechnology is more a metaphor than a reality. Almost all below 1 mm things are being called as nano and that process is nanotechnology, whether they are of the scale of 10-9 or not.

For instance, nonstick taflon coating on the utensils is now claimed to be done by nanotechnology. Tennis rackets are being claimed to be made by nanotechnology. But, strictly speaking, all these claims are false.

When we are unable to make and control even a single nano thing in normal circumstances so far, how these things can be claimed as being made by using nanotechnology!

But, the problem is that most of the people do not understand this. They get the false impression of the reality.

Arminus -But why do you not tell us your definition of "observation"? If you do not do it, then we have and are going to go on with our definition.

Sanjay - I have been given already. Perhaps you did not notice. Here it is again -

Here in this thread, observation is slightly different or one step ahead from what we understand in science. Scientific observation means gathering the information and process it. But, here observation includes cognitive effects too.

Like, a robot can observe and analyze the loss if one of its leg would break but that incident would not manifest any feeling in it. On the other hand, if the same would happen to anyone of us, we would observe the pain also besides our other physical damages.

With love,
Sanjay
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby GreatandWiseTrixie » Tue May 12, 2015 2:53 am

It's already happened in anime therefore it can happen in reality.
I am losing my mind to mandess.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby zinnat » Tue May 12, 2015 5:38 am

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:It's already happened in anime therefore it can happen in reality.


Is that an argument?

With love,
Sanjay
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Wed May 13, 2015 7:27 pm

zinnat13 wrote:What else evidence is required when we see it happening all around automatically!

Please explain what you concretely mean.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Sat May 16, 2015 1:14 pm

zinnat13 wrote:The trick is being able to entertain other or even opposite ideas at the same time.

Probably we have to wait until Zinnat will have learned that "trick".

zinnat13 wrote:What else evidence is required when we see it happening all around automatically!

What is "it"?

zinnat13 wrote:I was talking about definitions, and they do not have evidences.

So according to you the definitions are "happening all around automatically", or what?

zinnat13 wrote:I think that perhaps you are asking for the explanations for different definitions of nano.

No.

zinnat13 wrote:There are two different scales; micro and nano.

There are more than two scales - for example 20 metric prefixes (SI prefixes). Excuse me, but I think you have no idea.

zinnat13 wrote:But, over the time, the term nano is used more like a metaphor for all small things ....

No. You are telling nonsense. "Nano" is well defined and used as unit prefix meaning one billionth.

zinnat13 wrote:But ... things are either misrepresented or blown out of the proportion.

Which things do you mean?

zinnat13 wrote:Almost all below 1 mm things are being called as nano and that process is nanotechnology ....

That is again nonsense. There are six prefixes which mean less than nano (billionth), namely: pico (trillionth), femto (quadrillionth), atto (quintillionth), zepto (sextillionth), yocto (septillionth). For example: a proton has a diameter of about 1.6 to 1.7 femtometres.

zinnat13 wrote:For instance, nonstick taflon coating on the utensils is now claimed to be done by nanotechnology. Tennis rackets are being claimed to be made by nanotechnology. But, strictly speaking, all these claims are false.

When we are unable to make and control even a single nano thing in normal circumstances so far, how these things can be claimed as being made by using nanotechnology!

But, the problem is that most of the people do not understand this. They get the false impression of the reality.

Most of the people do not understand many things anyway - that is unfortunately normal. So there is not another problem but the same old problem, Zinnat.

zinnat13 wrote:Arminus -But why do you not tell us your definition of "observation"? If you do not do it, then we have and are going to go on with our definition.

Sanjay - I have been given already. Perhaps you did not notice. Here it is again -

Here in this thread, observation is slightly different or one step ahead from what we understand in science. Scientific observation means gathering the information and process it. But, here observation includes cognitive effects too.

Like, a robot can observe and analyze the loss if one of its leg would break but that incident would not manifest any feeling in it. On the other hand, if the same would happen to anyone of us, we would observe the pain also besides our other physical damages.

Yes, but that does not change anything of the definitions. The definitions of (for example) "observation", "cognition", "informnation", "process" can remain as constant as before.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Sun May 24, 2015 11:28 am

The film Ex Machina .. selling horny little boys on building AIs til they die.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Mon May 25, 2015 7:25 am

The film Chappie selling more love-thy-android and "hope to be uploaded into one" for the young South African masses. A remake of the 1986 film Short Circuit with "Number Five is alive" (selling to the little American boys and girls).
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Mon May 25, 2015 10:21 pm

- The film "Ex Machina" - little boys?
- The film "Chappie" - little boys and girls?
???
Is that weird or not?
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Tue May 26, 2015 8:33 am

Arminius wrote:- The film "Ex Machina" - little boys?
- The film "Chappie" - little boys and girls?
???
Is that weird or not?

Well, Ex Machina is for boys and young misandristic femi-larvae in the West.
Chappie is for simple rebellious authority hating youth in South Africa.

Both are design to instill endearment of the androids involved and a deep urge to fight for their cause of having equal to superior rights (much the same as the feminist movement). Hollywood is entirely psycho-engineering.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Sun May 31, 2015 11:00 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Arminius wrote:- The film "Ex Machina" - little boys?
- The film "Chappie" - little boys and girls?
???
Is that weird or not?

Well, Ex Machina is for boys and young misandristic femi-larvae in the West.
Chappie is for simple rebellious authority hating youth in South Africa.

Both are design to instill endearment of the androids involved and a deep urge to fight for their cause of having equal to superior rights (much the same as the feminist movement). Hollywood is entirely psycho-engineering.

The goal of Hollywood is obvious.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:58 pm

Nanorobot race.

In the same ways that technology development had the space race and nuclear arms race, a race for nanorobots is occurring. There is plenty of ground allowing nanorobots to be included among the emerging technologies. Some of the reasons are that large corporations, such as General Electric, Hewlett-Packard, Synopsys, Northrop Grumman and Siemens have been recently working in the development and research of nanorobots; surgeons are getting involved and starting to propose ways to apply nanorobots for common medical procedures; universities and research institutes were granted funds by government agencies exceeding $2 billion towards research developing nanodevices for medicine; bankers are also strategically investing with the intent to acquire beforehand rights and royalties on future nanorobots commercialization. Some aspects of nanorobot litigation and related issues linked to monopoly have already arisen. A large number of patents has been granted recently on nanorobots, done mostly for patent agents, companies specialized solely on building patent portfolio, and lawyers. After a long series of patents and eventually litigations, see for example the Invention of Radio or about the War of Currents, emerging fields of technology tend to become a monopoly, which normally is dominated by large corporations.

What do you think about that?
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:35 am

Arminius wrote:
Nanorobot race.

In the same ways that technology development had the space race and nuclear arms race, a race for nanorobots is occurring. There is plenty of ground allowing nanorobots to be included among the emerging technologies. Some of the reasons are that large corporations, such as General Electric, Hewlett-Packard, Synopsys, Northrop Grumman and Siemens have been recently working in the development and research of nanorobots; surgeons are getting involved and starting to propose ways to apply nanorobots for common medical procedures; universities and research institutes were granted funds by government agencies exceeding $2 billion towards research developing nanodevices for medicine; bankers are also strategically investing with the intent to acquire beforehand rights and royalties on future nanorobots commercialization. Some aspects of nanorobot litigation and related issues linked to monopoly have already arisen. A large number of patents has been granted recently on nanorobots, done mostly for patent agents, companies specialized solely on building patent portfolio, and lawyers. After a long series of patents and eventually litigations, see for example the Invention of Radio or about the War of Currents, emerging fields of technology tend to become a monopoly, which normally is dominated by large corporations.

What do you think about that?

DARPA is funding a great many such incentives for technological advancement through competition (causing it to be even less controlled).
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:39 pm

The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) is an agency of the U.S. Department of Defense responsible for the development of emerging technologies for use by the military.
....
DARPA is independent from other military research and development and reports directly to senior Department of Defense management.

Is DARPA really "independent from other military research and development and reports"?
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:17 pm

Arminius wrote:
The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) is an agency of the U.S. Department of Defense responsible for the development of emerging technologies for use by the military.
....
DARPA is independent from other military research and development and reports directly to senior Department of Defense management.

Is DARPA really "independent from other military research and development and reports"?

That's kind of a tricky question. DARPA (used to be ARPA) is funded by grants and is a think-tank organization (depicted on TV in the series Eureka). Congress disallows all of the research to be military defense so that the "Defense Budget" (around $800 bln) doesn't include DARPA's billions of dollars, a portion of which comes through corporate funding. They develop basically all of the super-high tech (unseen by the public) advances as well as the public's much lesser advance "new technology". Many projects are about exactly how to manipulate the public .. into favoring more technology from DARPA. :evilfun:

DARPA is the science team behind the one-way mirror. Their advancement is expontial compared to the public because they see (and limit) everything the public develops plus invents their own secret projects that lead to much higher developments that the public is not allowed to know about. Then those developments lead to even higher developments which, over the years, lead to even higher developments so that the secret developments are always growing exponentially compared to what the public ever sees. All "UFO" concerns (for example) are merely DARPA projects at this point, probably 50-100 years ahead of what the public is allowed to develop.

RM:AO is actually for DARPA.

Example projects vary greatly:
Robots for ... emm ... "disaster response"
DARPA is exploring how virtual robots could improve disaster response. The Virtual Robotics Challenge (VRC) took place in June 2013, where teams directed a virtual robot through a series of qualifying tasks in a simulated suburban environment. That effort is part of a larger DARPA Robotics Challenge (DRC), which was created to spur development of real, advanced robots that can assist humans in emergency situations. During the virtual competition, top six teams received funding and an Atlas robot from DARPA to compete in the DRC trials -- a second of three DRC events -- in December. "The VRC allowed us to open the field for the DARPA Robotics Challenge beyond hardware to include experts in robotic software. Integrating both skill sets is vital to the long-term feasibility of robots for disaster response," DRC program manager Gill Pratt said in a statement.
Earlier this year, DARPA became a key participant in a new federal initiative called Brain Research through Advancing Innovative Neurotechnologies (BRAIN), to better understand and map the human brain. The White House is contributing $100 million in funding in the first year of the program, half of which will come from DARPA. Building on that effort, DARPA announced plans in October to spend more than $70 million over five years to develop implants that could monitor the human brain, and created a program called Systems-Based Neurotechnology for Emerging Therapies (SUBNETS).

SUBNETS will investigate therapies that use near real-time recording, analysis, and stimulation in next-generation devices inspired by current deep brain stimulation (DBS), which involves implanting electrodes within specific areas of the brain.
Self-patching network defense system
DARPA is getting closer to creating the mythical Skynet. In October, the agency announced the Cyber Grand Challenge for which teams will build fully automated network defense systems that compete against each other. The systems will evaluate software, test for vulnerabilities, create security patches, and apply them to protected computers on a network. Participants with expertise in reverse engineering, formal methods, and program analysis will go head-to-head in a final event in early to mid-2016, as they demonstrate their unmanned systems. The systems will have to automatically identify software flaws and scan the network to find affected hosts. The winning team will receive $2 million.
Human Peripheral Interfaces
According to DARPA, more than 2,000 members of the military have had a limb amputated since 2000. DARPA's Reliable Neural-Interface Technology (RE-NET) program is leading research to develop high-performance, reliable peripheral interfaces that use signals from nerves or muscles to control prosthetics and to provide direct sensory feedback. Current clinical trials might soon allow wounded soldiers to take advantage of these breakthroughs, DARPA said. The agency plans to continue its efforts with peripheral interfaces through 2016, with the goal of making limb-control and sensory-feedback capabilities more widely available in the near future.
Hydra undersea network
DARPA's Hydra program, named after a creature from Greek mythology, aims to develop a distributed undersea network of unmanned payloads and platforms that complement manned vessels. Naval forces are in need of deploying capabilities in multiple locations at once, without building new vessels. "An unmanned technology infrastructure staged below the oceans' surface could relieve some of that resource strain and expand military capabilities in this increasingly challenging space," says a description of the program on DARPA's website. The Hydra system would integrate existing and emerging technologies, DARPA said. The agency began seeking ideas and technical proposals for how to best develop and implement the system in August.
Content-based mobile edge networking
DARPA is developing an alternative approach to creating a private cloud at the tactical level. The agency recently completed initial field testing of software running Android smartphones that enabled imagery, maps, and other important data to be shared quickly among front-line units. The effort is part of the Content-Based Mobile Edge Networking (CBMEN) program, the purpose of which is to enable each squad member's mobile device to function as a server, allowing content to be generated and distributed as needed. "CBMEN software automatically replicates and shares updates, causing the tactical cloud to grow and diminish as users move in and out of range of each other," DARPA said. Phase two of the program kicked off in August to mature the technology.
Hollow-core optical fiber
A team of DARPA-funded researchers led by Honeywell International Inc. have developed a hollow-core optical fiber that could enable high-power military sensors. According to DARPA, the fiber is the first to include three critical properties necessary for military applications: single-spatial-mode allows light to take a single path, enabling higher bandwidth over longer distances; low loss allows light to maintain intensity over longer distances; and polarization control is necessary for sensing, interferometry, and secure communications. DARPA's initial goal was to enhance fiber-optic performance for military-grade gyroscopes and to create hollow-core fiber production in the US. Although DARPA is still working on integrating this new technology into a gyroscope, the fiber can be used in other types of high-power sensors and applications that require intense optical beams, the agency said.
Microscale vacuum pumps
Earlier this year, researchers at the University of Michigan, Honeywell International, and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) demonstrated how ultra-high-performance vacuum micropumps work. The DARPA-funded program, called Chip-Scale Vacuum Micro Pumps (CSVMP), focused on building a new class of powerful, tiny vacuum pumps that could be used in national security applications for electronics and sensors that require a vacuum. The new pumps are about 300 times smaller than commercially available systems and consume 10 times less power. DARPA said potential security applications could include gas analyzers for detecting chemical and biological disease-producing agents.
Rapid threat assessment
In May 2013, DARPA launched a new five-year program to understand the molecular mechanism of threat agents, drugs, biologics, and chemicals. The objective of Rapid Threat Assessment (RTA) is to create technologies that could "identify the cellular components and mechanistic events that take place over a range of times, from the milliseconds immediately following exposure to the threat agent, to the days over which alterations in gene and protein expression might occur," DARPA said. Although the ultimate goal is to come up with medical countermeasures to chemical and biological weapons, DARPA sees RTA technologies being used to treat diseases as well. DARPA said it also wants to use the technologies developed for the RTA program with its Microphysiological Systems program, which is building "human-on-a-chip" technology.


Those just a few that the public are allowed to know about.
Last edited by James S Saint on Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:36 pm

RM:AO is actually for DARPA?
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:45 pm

Arminius wrote:RM:AO is actually for DARPA?

How many times have I told you ... it is really only for thinkers (at this stage). What you would call "the future" is actually already going on behind closed doors in the form of isolated communities and labs. A country can't develop secretive highly advanced technologies without implementing them so as to see what develops next. In the long run, when it is deemed necessary, a small device or strategy is released to the public either for gaining more psychological effect, or perhaps to treat a newly developed social situation. In the mean time, the developing grows and grows and grows behind closed doors.

The future is predictable merely because it is being manufactured (quite a number of films on that issue as well). But that makes it harder to predict for those not making the manufacturing decisions.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:57 pm

Is or was ARPANET (the precursor of the INTERNET) the net of ARPA, later known as DARPA?
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:12 pm

Arminius wrote:Is or was ARPANET (the precursor of the INTERNET) the net of ARPA, later known as DARPA?

Sure. Who didn't know that? :-s
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:24 pm

During the late 1960s, with the transfer of these mature programs to the Services, ARPA redefined its role and concentrated on a diverse set of relatively small, essentially exploratory research programs. The agency was renamed the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) in 1972, and during the early 1970s, it emphasized direct energy programs, information processing, and tactical technologies.

Concerning information processing, DARPA made great progress, initially through its support of the development of time-sharing (all modern operating systems rely on concepts invented for the Multics system, developed by a cooperation among Bell Labs, General Electric and MIT, which DARPA supported by funding Project MAC at MIT with an initial two-million-dollar grant).[17]

DARPA supported the evolution of the ARPANET (the first wide-area packet switching network), Packet Radio Network, Packet Satellite Network and ultimately, the Internet and research in the artificial intelligence fields of speech recognition and signal processing, including parts of Shakey the robot.[18] DARPA also funded the development of the Douglas Engelbart's NLS computer system and The Mother of All Demos; and the Aspen Movie Map, which was probably the first hypermedia system and an important precursor of virtual reality.


The individual inventor actually has zero chance of the old idea of getting rich by inventing ... well ... anything. When you hear that some women has recently invented .. whatever .. it is merely more PR for feminisation (same ole, same ole -- "Propaganda").
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:58 pm

Once upon a time, if you wanted money to build humanoid robots, you basically had to get it from the military — specifically, the high-risk, high-reward technology lab known as the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, or DARPA.

"Google and DARPA are entangled in a shotgun marriage"

That changed late last year when Google’s own high-risk, high-reward technology lab — Google X — bought a string of companies that make robot legs, arms, eyes, wheels, and brains, with the apparent goal of building something like an android. It’s a win for roboticists, who now have a nonmilitary patron with deep pockets. But two of Google’s new rock star robotics companies, Boston Dynamics and Schaft, still have obligations to DARPA — meaning Google and DARPA are entangled in a shotgun marriage, forced to share parental duties for at least a year.

Google and DARPA have a lot in common — they both try to anticipate the future and make big bets on emerging technologies. Google even has a history of snapping up DARPA-funded technology — the self-driving car came from a DARPA-sponsored competition — and poaching its employees.

That doesn’t mean the two innovation houses want to work together, however. Google isn’t interested in taking money from DARPA because its ambitions are in the more lucrative consumer market, and any association with DARPA leads to headlines like, "What the heck will Google do with these scary military robots?" DARPA doesn’t want to give Google money because it wants to use its $2.7 billion budget to fund startups with scarce resources, not Goliath tech companies, and its investments are supposed to seed technology that can one day be purchased by the Pentagon for national defense, which Google is unlikely to play along with.

The tension came to a head over the DARPA Robotics Challenge (DRC), a $2 million competition for robot rescue workers that requires the machines to perform athletic feats like opening a door and going up and down a ladder. Google never signed up for the DRC, but it’s now intimately involved. Five of the eight teams that qualified through the DRC Trials in December are using Atlas, a humanoid made by Boston Dynamics. Boston Dynamics has a $10.8 million contract to provide Atlas robots and tech support for the DRC.

"Google never signed up for the DARPA Robotics Challenge, but it’s now intimately involved"

Google also happens to own the team that is most likely to win the DRC. Schaft, a Japanese robotics startup that was founded explicitly to compete in the competition, got 27 out of 32 possible points at the qualifying round in December, beating the runner-up by seven. Schaft received $2.6 million from DARPA to compete.

It now looks like Google and DARPA are trying to extricate themselves from each other a little early, however. DARPA is considering adding more teams to a track in the competition where teams build their own robot without DARPA funding, and any newcomers will use a different platform such as NASA Johnson Space Center’s Valkyrie robot instead of Atlas, in order to prevent further entanglement with Boston Dynamics. Google will also move Schaft to the unfunded track and forfeit future DARPA money, which will be reallocated to non-Google-owned teams.

Google actually gives DARPA a bit of a challenge in the field of human interface technology and information mining (the larger portion of AI). But DARPA is allowed to spy on Google and even covertly intervene. So in the long run, Google can never do anything that DARPA hasn't already permitted to happen.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:26 am

James S Saint wrote:
During the late 1960s, with the transfer of these mature programs to the Services, ARPA redefined its role and concentrated on a diverse set of relatively small, essentially exploratory research programs. The agency was renamed the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) in 1972, and during the early 1970s, it emphasized direct energy programs, information processing, and tactical technologies.

Concerning information processing, DARPA made great progress, initially through its support of the development of time-sharing (all modern operating systems rely on concepts invented for the Multics system, developed by a cooperation among Bell Labs, General Electric and MIT, which DARPA supported by funding Project MAC at MIT with an initial two-million-dollar grant).[17]

DARPA supported the evolution of the ARPANET (the first wide-area packet switching network), Packet Radio Network, Packet Satellite Network and ultimately, the Internet and research in the artificial intelligence fields of speech recognition and signal processing, including parts of Shakey the robot.[18] DARPA also funded the development of the Douglas Engelbart's NLS computer system and The Mother of All Demos; and the Aspen Movie Map, which was probably the first hypermedia system and an important precursor of virtual reality.


The individual inventor actually has zero chance of the old idea of getting rich by inventing ... well ... anything. When you hear that some women has recently invented .. whatever .. it is merely more PR for feminisation (same ole, same ole -- "Propaganda").

I know. Unfortunately I forgot that you had already mentioned DARPA several times - although I was quite sure that it had something to do with ARPA and ARPANET, the precursor of the INTERNET, but then I thought: "Why am I not asking James S. Saint, the one who wants to be asked?" At that time I had already read the following text:

The Advanced Research Projects Agency Network (ARPANET) was an early packet switching network and the first network to implement the protocol suite TCP/IP. Both technologies became the technical foundation of the Internet. ARPANET was initially funded by the Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA, later Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, DARPA) of the United States Department of Defense.
....
The first successful message on the ARPANET was sent by UCLA student programmer Charley Kline, at 10:30 pm on 29 October 1969, from Boelter Hall 3420. Kline transmitted from the university's SDS Sigma 7 Host computer to the Stanford Research Institute's SDS 940 Host computer. The message text was the word login; on an earlier attempt the l and the o letters were transmitted, but the system then crashed. Hence, the literal first message over the ARPANET was lo. About an hour later, after the programmers repaired the code that caused the crash, the SDS Sigma 7 computer effected a full login. The first permanent ARPANET link was established on 21 November 1969, between the IMP at UCLA and the IMP at the Stanford Research Institute. By 5 December 1969, the entire four-node network was established.

The ARPANET was officially shut down February 28, 1990.

James S Saint wrote:
Once upon a time, if you wanted money to build humanoid robots, you basically had to get it from the military — specifically, the high-risk, high-reward technology lab known as the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, or DARPA.

"Google and DARPA are entangled in a shotgun marriage"

That changed late last year when Google’s own high-risk, high-reward technology lab — Google X — bought a string of companies that make robot legs, arms, eyes, wheels, and brains, with the apparent goal of building something like an android. It’s a win for roboticists, who now have a nonmilitary patron with deep pockets. But two of Google’s new rock star robotics companies, Boston Dynamics and Schaft, still have obligations to DARPA — meaning Google and DARPA are entangled in a shotgun marriage, forced to share parental duties for at least a year.

Google and DARPA have a lot in common — they both try to anticipate the future and make big bets on emerging technologies. Google even has a history of snapping up DARPA-funded technology — the self-driving car came from a DARPA-sponsored competition — and poaching its employees.

That doesn’t mean the two innovation houses want to work together, however. Google isn’t interested in taking money from DARPA because its ambitions are in the more lucrative consumer market, and any association with DARPA leads to headlines like, "What the heck will Google do with these scary military robots?" DARPA doesn’t want to give Google money because it wants to use its $2.7 billion budget to fund startups with scarce resources, not Goliath tech companies, and its investments are supposed to seed technology that can one day be purchased by the Pentagon for national defense, which Google is unlikely to play along with.

The tension came to a head over the DARPA Robotics Challenge (DRC), a $2 million competition for robot rescue workers that requires the machines to perform athletic feats like opening a door and going up and down a ladder. Google never signed up for the DRC, but it’s now intimately involved. Five of the eight teams that qualified through the DRC Trials in December are using Atlas, a humanoid made by Boston Dynamics. Boston Dynamics has a $10.8 million contract to provide Atlas robots and tech support for the DRC.

"Google never signed up for the DARPA Robotics Challenge, but it’s now intimately involved"

Google also happens to own the team that is most likely to win the DRC. Schaft, a Japanese robotics startup that was founded explicitly to compete in the competition, got 27 out of 32 possible points at the qualifying round in December, beating the runner-up by seven. Schaft received $2.6 million from DARPA to compete.

It now looks like Google and DARPA are trying to extricate themselves from each other a little early, however. DARPA is considering adding more teams to a track in the competition where teams build their own robot without DARPA funding, and any newcomers will use a different platform such as NASA Johnson Space Center’s Valkyrie robot instead of Atlas, in order to prevent further entanglement with Boston Dynamics. Google will also move Schaft to the unfunded track and forfeit future DARPA money, which will be reallocated to non-Google-owned teams.

Google actually gives DARPA a bit of a challenge in the field of human interface technology and information mining (the larger portion of AI). But DARPA is allowed to spy on Google and even covertly intervene. So in the long run, Google can never do anything that DARPA hasn't already permitted to happen.

There was a campaign aginst Google some months ago. It seems that DARPA is able to knock out Google if it wants to. But DARPA itself is also not absolutely independent.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:40 am

Arminius wrote:There was a campaign against Google some months ago. It seems that DARPA is able to knock out Google if it wants to. But DARPA itself is also not absolutely independent.

DARPA took over the NASA projects and the issues between Google and DARPA are like the old issues between NASA and individuals attempting space flight. In the end, the governance controls all things (bunch of Godwannabes).
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:48 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Arminius wrote:There was a campaign against Google some months ago. It seems that DARPA is able to knock out Google if it wants to. But DARPA itself is also not absolutely independent.

DARPA took over the NASA projects and the issues between Google and DARPA are like the old issues between NASA and individuals attempting space flight. In the end, the governance controls all things (bunch of Godwannabes).

I guess you do not mean the US government but the world government as the world rulers. The US government depends on the world rulers. Think of, for example, the money that the members of the US government need for their elections and re-elections.
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