Will machines completely replace all human beings?

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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Sat May 24, 2014 10:10 pm

monad wrote:The best thing one can say about humans is that they themselves are nothing more than malfunctioning machines.

Are you a misanthrope or even a misanthropist? I reverse your sentence and say (merely in order to show both sides): The best thing one can say about machines is that they themselves are nothing more than malfunctioning humans.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Moreno » Sat May 24, 2014 11:35 pm

monad wrote:Yeah right! I don't notice anything here that wasn't done constantly for the last ten thousand years.
You missing the point. You seemed to be arguing that neutral and lack of hate are pluses. I don't think so. Sure, humans have acted horrifically. Should we add a new agent THAT HAS NO EMPATHY AT ALL to a world with the problems you want us to focus on?

Actually one can add a few more "human defects" to this summary that even a robot wouldn't think of.
YOu have no idea what a robot would not think of. Perhaps an AI driven robot would be curious about torturing killing and resurrecting someone or everyone for millions of years to see what happens to their minds.

Why do we fear intelligence machines so much in the first place?Well, I answered that, at least in part.

Could it because initially we would be "infecting" them with our own codes and if that's the case what then amounts to a greater evil, us or them?So you want to focus on blame. I was focusing on consequences. Sure, the fact that humans would create them, and not just humans, but humans at the behest of a tiny segement of the human population, one that has shown repeated disdain for human and other life, that's a factor. So yes, in part it is the combination of our flaws and hubris that make me very skeptical about what we would create. Then all the possible errors, then what I focused on about having a lot of entities with great power and no empathy.

Generally with humans you have to teach them NOT to feel empathy, generally using some idealogy that classifies other groups as non-human or evil or sub-human, and this justifies the coming violence. With robots there is no need to override the non-existent empathy and caution.

I don't see why you take fear and concern about robots and AIs as some kind of approval of all human behavior. This is a false dilemma. One can be skeptical about the latter and have tremendous concern about the former.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby monad » Sat May 24, 2014 11:55 pm

Arminius wrote:
monad wrote:The best thing one can say about humans is that they themselves are nothing more than malfunctioning machines.

Are you a misanthrope or even a misanthropist? I reverse your sentence and say (merely in order to show both sides): The best thing one can say about machines is that they themselves are nothing more than malfunctioning humans.


If both conditions are equal then they cancel each other out...so, what's the problem with AI we don't have with humans since there's seemingly no remainder to this division?
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby monad » Sun May 25, 2014 12:32 am

Moreno wrote:Generally with humans you have to teach them NOT to feel empathy, generally using some idealogy that classifies other groups as non-human or evil or sub-human, and this justifies the coming violence. With robots there is no need to override the non-existent empathy and caution.


This makes a good point! But I think there is a very potent difference between the two. To eviscerate empathy from an individual through ideology or whatever means is to purposely create an evil in its wake. What other reason can there be when humans are deliberately deprived of their humanity by other "humans"?

An AI machine on the other hand, which was never endowed with the requisite emotions in the first place is not as a consequence brainwashed into committing atrocities. In fact I would think of an AI entity more as a kind of "Data" in StarTrek attempting to educate themselves to any new experience even those as mysterious as emotion.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Moreno » Sun May 25, 2014 1:29 am

Saw this article relevent to the thread. Some good info tucked into various places.

http://wtfrly.com/2014/05/23/the-robots ... 4E4j3J_t1Y
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Sun May 25, 2014 1:45 am

Thank you for that link, and here come the Economic Collapse:

"The Robots Are Coming, And They Are Replacing ....

47 percent of all U.S. jobs could be automated within the next 20 years.

47 percent?

That is crazy.

What will the middle class do as their jobs are taken away?

The world that we live in is becoming a radically different place than the one that we grew up in.

The robots are coming, and they are going to take millions of our Jobs." - The Economic Collapse

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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Moreno » Sun May 25, 2014 2:41 am

I think there will be weird and bad social effects, when service type jobs get taken over. I mean, it already feels like one is dealing with machines, but when checkout at the supermarket, coffee at STarbucks and so on is all handled by robots. The plasitification of everything. The derealization of everything. That choking feeling you get in a mall, where everything is a copy of a copy of a copy, but everywhere. Or that sad, empty fakeness, void feeling on suburban streets, but everywhere. I've seen the future and it is murder, to quote Leonard Cohen. Though this murder is the murder by lack of feeling and realness.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby LaughingMan » Sun May 25, 2014 2:51 am

A more better apt question is, who exactly will be running those machines?

What is their end game?
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby LaughingMan » Sun May 25, 2014 3:08 am

Dan~ wrote:Humans are too pissy to be replaced. Robot slaves will maybe be used to minimize humans eventually, but the humans in control of the machines will not want to be replaced and will keep their control. I think that is how it will go anyway.


That's why you kill off 95% of the global population. Problem solved. See how easy that was? :lol:

Killing off 95% of the global population is the wet dream of international elitists.

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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby LaughingMan » Sun May 25, 2014 3:15 am

Dan~ wrote:
mr reasonable wrote:No, I don't think that machines will completely replace all human beings.

I see cyborgs taking over.


Nope. Transhumanism where man becomes one with machines is only reserved for the elitists concerning immortality of transferring conscious mind into computer.

Either that or genetic cloning. It all ends the same way.

95% of the rest of humanity are not privileged enough. You have to be a part of the chosen inner circle. The chosen ones.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby LaughingMan » Sun May 25, 2014 3:20 am

mr reasonable wrote:I don't think that's gonna happen either Dan. I just don't see it.


Go back to your hookers and blow Smears. This conversation might not be your strong suit.

You might want to sit this one out.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby LaughingMan » Sun May 25, 2014 3:24 am

fuse wrote:I think the future will bring even tighter integration between our carnal selves and technology. I think the natural progression is to continue to better enhance our organic constitutions with increasingly wearable and insertable tech. Gone will be the days when we had to carry all our tech in our hands, e.g. smart phones, tablets, computers and "human interface devices." We will do less interfacing with our tech as it becomes increasingly part of us and synced with our neural impulses rather than a separate machine operated by motor control. Until we get there, though, all this "XBOX On!" voice control business is just an awkward gimmicky phase.

We will continue to create more efficient machines that take over jobs formerly held by people. But ultimately, technology today prevails only as far as it can be successfully operated or programmed by a user. Even the best AI is nowhere near as adaptable, autonomous, or as structurally and behaviorally sophisticated as a human being. Not even close. It's a pretty big deal to be alive, to harness energy and exhibit metabolism, to grow, reproduce, sense and adapt to the environment -- as coded for in self-replicating genetic material. No known tech ever created can be said to be alive or really even close to it. So until that reality starts to look more possible, I don't see machines completely replacing people.


Uh- oh........

We have a technological utopian on our hands here. They're always envisioning the future to be like some sort of Star Trek paradise when in all reality it will be something akin to the Borg or Terminators. The technological cornucopians as I like to call them.

On the bright side global peak oil and energy will completely destroy modern industrial technological society where I view that as a great thing.

Think of it as the wheels spinning off of the machine that is technological industrial society.

Hopefully that really starts to kick in before this technological nightmarish new world order thing prevails. Time will tell.

My only regret is that I won't live long enough to see it happen. I give it two hundred and seventy five years.

That of course assumes we don't destroy ourselves and the world first.... Party on. ( Like it's 1999) :mrgreen:
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby LaughingMan » Sun May 25, 2014 3:38 am

Kriswest wrote:There is a probability that humans will split over advancements in technology. Fanatics on both sides will most likely try to cause war. Hopefully moderates on both sides are far less gullible then they are now.


Not if you can kill a majority of human beings before they become a problem to manage, control, and so on.

It's a global genocidal race. Race you to the bottom!

Which begs the greatest philosophical question of all, is humanity doomed to destroy itself? :-k
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby monad » Sun May 25, 2014 3:39 am

Arminius wrote:Thank you for that link, and here come the Economic Collapse:

"The Robots Are Coming, And They Are Replacing ....

47 percent of all U.S. jobs could be automated within the next 20 years.

47 percent?

That is crazy.

What will the middle class do as their jobs are taken away?

The world that we live in is becoming a radically different place than the one that we grew up in.

The robots are coming, and they are going to take millions of our Jobs." - The Economic Collapse

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Old hat! When haven't jobs been lost to new technologies? It's not that which causes economic collapse. It's the absolute stupidity of governments - what they qualify as expediency - and the massive rampant greed of corporations who are "too big to fail" though fail they should, who get bailed out every time at the expense of main street, the producers. That's what completely distorts economics not new technologies which usually have the opposite effect, though admittedly, there is an adjustment period. One of the most technological countries on the planet, Germany where robotics are rampant, don't seem to be suffering under a huge unemployment problem.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby LaughingMan » Sun May 25, 2014 3:43 am

Poor Monad. He doesn't see that the real aim is to make entire populations obsolete where their very existence is considered an anachronism.

It's a brave new world of progress and the greater population needs its entire lifestyle or existence replaced by mechanical automated systems.

Only the administrator class would prevail.

Progress! Worship the state! Blah, blah, blah, and blah....
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby fuse » Sun May 25, 2014 3:47 am

Tyler Durden wrote:
fuse wrote:I think the future will bring even tighter integration between our carnal selves and technology. I think the natural progression is to continue to better enhance our organic constitutions with increasingly wearable and insertable tech. Gone will be the days when we had to carry all our tech in our hands, e.g. smart phones, tablets, computers and "human interface devices." We will do less interfacing with our tech as it becomes increasingly part of us and synced with our neural impulses rather than a separate machine operated by motor control. Until we get there, though, all this "XBOX On!" voice control business is just an awkward gimmicky phase.

We will continue to create more efficient machines that take over jobs formerly held by people. But ultimately, technology today prevails only as far as it can be successfully operated or programmed by a user. Even the best AI is nowhere near as adaptable, autonomous, or as structurally and behaviorally sophisticated as a human being. Not even close. It's a pretty big deal to be alive, to harness energy and exhibit metabolism, to grow, reproduce, sense and adapt to the environment -- as coded for in self-replicating genetic material. No known tech ever created can be said to be alive or really even close to it. So until that reality starts to look more possible, I don't see machines completely replacing people.


Uh- oh........

We have a technological utopian on our hands here. They're always envisioning the future to be like some sort of Star Trek paradise when in all reality it will be something akin to the Borg or Terminators. The technological cornucopians as I like to call them.

On the bright side global peak oil and energy will completely destroy modern industrial technological society where I view that as a great thing.

Think of it as the wheels spinning off of the machine that is technological industrial society.

Hopefully that really starts to kick in before this technological nightmarish new world order thing prevails. Time will tell.

My only regret is that I won't live long enough to see it happen. I give it two hundred and seventy five years.

That of course assumes we don't destroy ourselves and the world first.... Party on. ( Like it's 1999) :mrgreen:

Nice commentary. But I didn't say I want it to happen, it's what I think WILL happen. I don't believe in any concept of utopia, only better and worse.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby LaughingMan » Sun May 25, 2014 3:49 am

fuse wrote:
Tyler Durden wrote:
fuse wrote:I think the future will bring even tighter integration between our carnal selves and technology. I think the natural progression is to continue to better enhance our organic constitutions with increasingly wearable and insertable tech. Gone will be the days when we had to carry all our tech in our hands, e.g. smart phones, tablets, computers and "human interface devices." We will do less interfacing with our tech as it becomes increasingly part of us and synced with our neural impulses rather than a separate machine operated by motor control. Until we get there, though, all this "XBOX On!" voice control business is just an awkward gimmicky phase.

We will continue to create more efficient machines that take over jobs formerly held by people. But ultimately, technology today prevails only as far as it can be successfully operated or programmed by a user. Even the best AI is nowhere near as adaptable, autonomous, or as structurally and behaviorally sophisticated as a human being. Not even close. It's a pretty big deal to be alive, to harness energy and exhibit metabolism, to grow, reproduce, sense and adapt to the environment -- as coded for in self-replicating genetic material. No known tech ever created can be said to be alive or really even close to it. So until that reality starts to look more possible, I don't see machines completely replacing people.


Uh- oh........

We have a technological utopian on our hands here. They're always envisioning the future to be like some sort of Star Trek paradise when in all reality it will be something akin to the Borg or Terminators. The technological cornucopians as I like to call them.

On the bright side global peak oil and energy will completely destroy modern industrial technological society where I view that as a great thing.

Think of it as the wheels spinning off of the machine that is technological industrial society.

Hopefully that really starts to kick in before this technological nightmarish new world order thing prevails. Time will tell.

My only regret is that I won't live long enough to see it happen. I give it two hundred and seventy five years.

That of course assumes we don't destroy ourselves and the world first.... Party on. ( Like it's 1999) :mrgreen:

Nice commentary. But I didn't say I want it to happen, it's what I think WILL happen. I don't believe in any concept of utopia, only better and worse.


They're working on sophisticated A.I. systems as we speak. They already have machines that can make more copies of themselves without human intervention.

Nice rosy glasses you have there that puts a positive spin on everything where there isn't a cause to worry about anything.

Where can I get some of those? Maybe it's not the glasses at all. Maybe it's something else......

What's your secret? Is it a drug? Where can I get some?
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Moreno » Sun May 25, 2014 3:50 am

At a certain point, however, the new technologies are not merely replacing bodies, but minds, and that is where technology is a long term threat to employment.
I don't think this change is in the next decade on a large scale but fairly soon we will reach a stage not too far ahead where machines can replace human minds on a wide range of tasks. And that is a radical shift.

Also the levels of unemployment are misleading. Today humans are doing more and more mindless, shit work, often several jobs with little security and benefits and the middle class has been shrinking. Machines are cutting into the quality of work and the compensation for work.

It's not the only factor. The corporatization of the planet is having enormous effects and here's the thing, corporatization and robotization/AI replacement of humans fit together perfectly. Robots and AI do not have unions or rights or morals. Board of Director dreams.

Robots and AI also fit wonderfully with the military, which is expanding - as is the prison/parole/probation system in similar ways with a similar machinelike tenor - so Eisenhower's warning is only more appropriate with the introduction of robot/AIs.

The robot AI prison is no doubt in the preproduction stages somewhere.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby fuse » Sun May 25, 2014 3:52 am

Nice rosy glasses you have there that puts a positive spin on everything where this is a cause to worry about anything.

Well I came a long way since that first post. That was just my initial thought on the OP. I do think there is cause to worry. Agreed.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby LaughingMan » Sun May 25, 2014 3:54 am

Moreno wrote:At a certain point, however, the new technologies are not merely replacing bodies, but minds, and that is where technology is a long term threat to employment.
I don't think this change is in the next decade on a large scale but fairly soon we will reach a stage not too far ahead where machines can replace human minds on a wide range of tasks. And that is a radical shift.

Also the levels of unemployment are misleading. Today humans are doing more and more mindless, shit work, often several jobs with little security and benefits and the middle class has been shrinking. Machines are cutting into the quality of work and the compensation for work.

It's not the only factor. The corporatization of the planet is having enormous effects and here's the thing, corporatization and robotization/AI replacement of humans fit together perfectly. Robots and AI do not have unions or rights or morals. Board of Director dreams.

Robots and AI also fit wonderfully with the military, which is expanding - as is the prison/parole/probation system in similar ways with a similar machinelike tenor - so Eisenhower's warning is only more appropriate with the introduction of robot/AIs.


Come on Moreno. Everybody knows the New World Order is great. Big brother is wonderful not to mention charming. Don't you see what the state has in store for everyone concerning the future?

Isn't this what the people who blindly worshiped government and authority for several generations always wanted?


Hasn't this always been their dream and grand vision?

Well now, they've got their wish finally. :D

As the old saying goes, be very careful for what you wish for.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby LaughingMan » Sun May 25, 2014 3:56 am

fuse wrote:
Nice rosy glasses you have there that puts a positive spin on everything where this is a cause to worry about anything.

Well I came a long way since that first post. That was just my initial thought on the OP. I do think there is cause to worry. Agreed.


Re-read the edit. Nice try.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby fuse » Sun May 25, 2014 4:01 am

Moreno wrote:At a certain point, however, the new technologies are not merely replacing bodies, but minds, and that is where technology is a long term threat to employment.

There are many jobs where people want specifically to interact with a human being, not something that is like a human being: customer service, care services, I'm sure there are many more. There is a comfortableness and bias at work that may be healthy. Why would this preference for human employment in those positions go away? When there are robots indistinguishable from human beings? I don't think we are anywhere near close to that point and I invite examples that oppose my belief if there are any.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby fuse » Sun May 25, 2014 4:02 am

Tyler Durden wrote:
fuse wrote:
Nice rosy glasses you have there that puts a positive spin on everything where this is a cause to worry about anything.

Well I came a long way since that first post. That was just my initial thought on the OP. I do think there is cause to worry. Agreed.


Re-read the edit. Nice try.

What specifically should I pay attention to in the edit and what was I trying to do?
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby LaughingMan » Sun May 25, 2014 4:09 am

fuse wrote:
Moreno wrote:At a certain point, however, the new technologies are not merely replacing bodies, but minds, and that is where technology is a long term threat to employment.

There are many jobs where people want specifically to interact with a human being, not something that is like a human being: customer service, care services, I'm sure there are many more. There is a comfortableness and bias at work that may be healthy. Why would this preference for human employment in those positions go away? When there are robots indistinguishable from human beings? I don't think we are anywhere near close to that point and I invite examples that oppose my belief if there are any.


Are you familiar with Japanese robotic love dolls? Cosmetics are advancing concerning robots.

"Hi, my name is Tina. I'll be your robotic waitress today."

"Hi, my name is medical unit 335. I'll be performing your surgery today."

Doubt all you want. It's coming if they have their way about it.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby LaughingMan » Sun May 25, 2014 4:13 am

Fuse:
What specifically should I pay attention to in the edit and what was I trying to do?


The isn't part. You know what you were trying to do. Let's not play coy.

Anywho........
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