Will machines completely replace all human beings?

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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Mon May 26, 2014 12:09 pm

Tyler Durden wrote:
Arminius wrote:
Tyler Durden wrote:I seem to recall me saying in this thread that if the international elites have their way that they will initiate programs where machines virtually replace everybody on all levels of civilization Arminius. Abstention?

I've only tried to get an answer from you (you remember?), And now I have at least a response from you.


Ah, yes, you will have to forgive my slow responses.

Sure, I forgive you. :)

Tyler Durden wrote: Work nowadays takes up a majority of my time and soon going to school at the same time will also.

I'll reply to that post and thread later. I haven't forgotten.

If I may answer anymore of your other questions let me know.

Oh, there's no hurry. :lol:
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Mon May 26, 2014 1:48 pm

Tyler Durden wrote:Will the elites themselves eventually get replaced by their very own creations? An interesting question.

Those who answer the question whether machines will completely replace all human beings with YES also say that the elites will be replaced, if they say elites will be human beings when it comes to replace them. All human beings! Completely replaced!

So, Tyler, do you want to change your vote again? :wink: :-k
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby LaughingMan » Mon May 26, 2014 4:16 pm

Arminius wrote:
Tyler Durden wrote:Will the elites themselves eventually get replaced by their very own creations? An interesting question.

Those who answer the question whether machines will completely replace all human beings with YES also say that the elites will be replaced, if they say elites will be human beings when it comes to replace them. All human beings! Completely replaced!

So, Tyler, do you want to change your vote again? :wink: :-k


I still stick by my answer that there are many variances and probabilities within all of this where I can't make any definite statements.

What you are talking about is just one probable outcome while there are still a couple of others which I've addressed here that are equally possible.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Lev Muishkin » Mon May 26, 2014 6:48 pm

Arminius wrote:Here comes the 3rd interim balance sheet:


The assertion that machines will replace "ALL" human being is risible.

You need to put me in the "I think this question is stupid obviously the answer if NO" column.

The clue is in the word "all".

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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Mon May 26, 2014 8:12 pm

Lev Muishkin wrote:
Arminius wrote:Here comes the 3rd interim balance sheet:


The assertion that machines will replace "ALL" human being is risible.

You need to put me in the "I think this question is stupid obviously the answer if NO" column.

The clue is in the word "all".

I more suspect that the "clue" is in the phrase, "I ... is stupid obviously ... if NO""
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Orbie » Mon May 26, 2014 9:10 pm

I think a wait and see attitude to give ample time for the benefit of doubt, that perhaps someone(s) between the two extremes of majority and minority positions, even be it 1%, is perhaps not entirely dismissible. It is sometimes the unexpected, the least likely odd event, that usually turns things around to the desired benefit of the majority. Let's not get carried away by seemingly inconsistent changes of opinion, until all the chips, well most, are in.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Mon May 26, 2014 9:13 pm

obe wrote:I think a wait and see attitude to give ample time for the benefit of doubt, that perhaps someone(s) between the two extremes of majority and minority positions, even be it 1%, is perhaps not entirely dismissible. It is sometimes the unexpected, the least likely odd event, that usually turns things around to the desired benefit of the majority. Let's not get carried away by seemingly inconsistent changes of opinion, until all the chips, well most, are in.

"Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise."
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Orbie » Mon May 26, 2014 9:20 pm

James S Saint wrote:
obe wrote:I think a wait and see attitude to give ample time for the benefit of doubt, that perhaps someone(s) between the two extremes of majority and minority positions, even be it 1%, is perhaps not entirely dismissible. It is sometimes the unexpected, the least likely odd event, that usually turns things around to the desired benefit of the majority. Let's not get carried away by seemingly inconsistent changes of opinion, until all the chips, well most, are in.

"Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise."




Except, it's never really to late to choose. What is too late? Where is the line to be drawn? It may be too late from the very beginning.............but, who is to say that should bar at least a modicum of faith based hope to turn things around?
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
Orbie
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Mon May 26, 2014 9:35 pm

obe wrote:
James S Saint wrote:
obe wrote:I think a wait and see attitude to give ample time for the benefit of doubt, that perhaps someone(s) between the two extremes of majority and minority positions, even be it 1%, is perhaps not entirely dismissible. It is sometimes the unexpected, the least likely odd event, that usually turns things around to the desired benefit of the majority. Let's not get carried away by seemingly inconsistent changes of opinion, until all the chips, well most, are in.

"Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise."

Except, it's never really to late to choose.

Really?
Have you ever thought about what your life would be like if you could go back, maintaining your knowledge, and live it again? = "too late".

Children are raised poorly and do stupid things - "too late" to raise them better.
Adults misunderstand and do stupid things, permanent social record = "too late".
Blinded suicide victims arrange for their own deaths; pills, rooftops, bridges = "too late".
Presidents attack other countries. The war is on = "too late" to prevent it.
Politicians make false claims and tell lies to the public = "too late" to ever be trusted again.

People get hypnotized by lusts, such as drugs or world conquering ambitions = "too late" to take a wiser road.
Humans replace humans with a race of androids = "too late" to save the species.

Reality has limited forgiveness.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby LaughingMan » Mon May 26, 2014 10:14 pm

I will say this much. Look to 90% of the military being replaced by robots and drones somewhere around 2025.

Assuming we don't nuke the entire planet before then......

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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby LaughingMan » Mon May 26, 2014 10:42 pm









For fun:

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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Orbie » Tue May 27, 2014 12:27 am

James: Erasmus wouldn't have succeeded with the enlightenment, had he given up on the horrible plague of the dark ages. Hiroshima lost millions, and yet one baby, surviving still merits continuation. Hiroshima today is doing well today, excepting the grim reminders. It is life's wonder to discount numberless casualties in favor of those lucky few, who may carry on to seek a better world. And goes with mechanization, hopefully it will carry on to the benefit of those still having a hopefully bright future.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
Orbie
partly cloudy, with a few showers
 
Posts: 7596
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:34 pm
Location: Night of infinite faith

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Tue May 27, 2014 1:22 am

James S Saint wrote:Humans replace humans with a race of androids = "too late" to save the species.

Reality has limited forgiveness.

"'Too late' to save the species" reminds me irresistibly on this:



"Too late too late to be saved.
(Too late to save the species.)

Too many people living in the same old way (replacing too many people)
could'nt pull the handle.
....

Too late ....

If only time could tell me what I had to do
I wouldn't have to hurry (I would stop replacing).
....

Too late ...."
Last edited by Arminius on Tue May 27, 2014 1:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Tue May 27, 2014 1:27 am

obe wrote:James: Erasmus wouldn't have succeeded with the enlightenment, had he given up on the horrible plague of the dark ages. Hiroshima lost millions, and yet one baby, surviving still merits continuation. Hiroshima today is doing well today, excepting the grim reminders. It is life's wonder to discount numberless casualties in favor of those lucky few, who may carry on to seek a better world. And goes with mechanization, hopefully it will carry on to the benefit of those still having a hopefully bright future.

I see. So your idea of "continuing" and "not too late" is that an associated name or national name continued and can possibly change at some point in the future, regardless of all of the death and suffering of the entire generations along the way? As long as something continues, then it isn't "too late"? I have to ask, "Too late for what?"

Here are two indicators, the second more serious, concerning things that it is too late to change;

Robo-Sapians:


The following is what I have been referring to for years as "The run away train".

Technology: The Opiate of Governments


For exactly the same reason citizens should not be allowed to freely use hard drugs (Heroin, Opium, Cocaine,...), governments should not be allowed to use Technology.

And what happens when you try to take a drug away from a drug addict?
- The same thing that happens when you even hint at taking technology (especially surveillance) away from a government.

= Too Late.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Orbie » Tue May 27, 2014 2:45 am

James S Saint wrote:
obe wrote:James: Erasmus wouldn't have succeeded with the enlightenment, had he given up on the horrible plague of the dark ages. Hiroshima lost millions, and yet one baby, surviving still merits continuation. Hiroshima today is doing well today, excepting the grim reminders. It is life's wonder to discount numberless casualties in favor of those lucky few, who may carry on to seek a better world. And goes with mechanization, hopefully it will carry on to the benefit of those still having a hopefully bright future.

I see. So your idea of "continuing" and "not too late" is that an associated name or national name continued and can possibly change at some point in the future, regardless of all of the death and suffering of the entire generations along the way? As long as something continues, then it isn't "too late"? I have to ask, "Too late for what?"

Here are two indicators, the second more serious, concerning things that it is too late to change;

Robo-Sapians:


The following is what I have been referring to for years as "The run away train".

Technology: The Opiate of Governments


For exactly the same reason citizens should not be allowed to freely use hard drugs (Heroin, Opium, Cocaine,...), governments should not be allowed to use Technology.

And what happens when you try to take a drug away from a drug addict?
- The same thing that happens when you even hint at taking technology (especially surveillance) away from a government.

= Too Late.




But that should not take away from the slight chance that the effort will succeed. Life relentlessly, even against insurmountable odds, manages to survive. Of course, only the fittest can be up to this. The few Greeks who held up the hordes of Persian invaders, sure, died, but have given us a model of how the will to succeed can overwhelm even the most uneven of contests.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
Orbie
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Posts: 7596
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Tue May 27, 2014 3:00 am

obe wrote:But that should not take away from the slight chance that the effort will succeed.

Yes. And as I stated, I am not saying "give up". I am more saying "Wake up" to the reality of your situation, else you will keep merely playing until there is no more of anything like you on Earth.

obe wrote:Life relentlessly, even against insurmountable odds, manages to survive. Of course, only the fittest can be up to this.

Yes. But then, that is the issue. We are not talking about life dying out. Life will certainly continue. The problem is that it looks like it isn't going to be human life, because humans were too stupid to live. With blind pride, they created their own replacement, "The Iron Butterfly".

obe wrote:The few Greeks who held up the hordes of Persian invaders, sure, died, but have given us a model of how the will to succeed can overwhelm even the most uneven of contests.

There has never been a more "uneven contest" throughout the entire history of Mankind. These videos are NOT the "state of the art". They are merely what is currently being declassified because behind closed doors where technology has been exponentially advancing for 60 years, these products have all become obsolete. So now is the time to use them on the population to increase capital and get closer to the goal.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Orbie » Tue May 27, 2014 6:22 am

And the goal is? Total domination of the planet's vast majority for the benefit of the few? Control of anarchy? But are these exhaustive ends, or are there others such as being able to feed the ever growing, equally exponential, Malthusian growth of the world's population, so that people will not destroy each other totally, at least those, who can live on bread alone?
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
Orbie
partly cloudy, with a few showers
 
Posts: 7596
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:34 pm
Location: Night of infinite faith

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Orbie » Tue May 27, 2014 7:01 am

To carry this argument further, it needs to be said, that given the point of view, that either courses may be taken, or neither, or both-simulteniously, in concert to benefit those men, machines, men-machines, who seem to be the so called elite social control of society. In that case, it would matter little which from would be most applicable to maximum capital, service and utilization. We cannot automatically assume, that pure machines would be the most profitable in that respect, and that is why i feel that issue is of yet indeterminate.

Given the fact, that Nature Herself can overcome a non controlled ,limitless growth of population without consequence, control of populations can already be seen for instance, in the social manipulation of normative morals, as exemplified by changing moral behavior. Is this the work of man, or nature is a mute subject, since man is an extension of Nature. In which case, even robots and cyborgs are natural, the only requisite value to that eventuality, is that artificial programs and minds stay close to the intent, form, and content of the programmer. The result would effect an eternal consciousness.

It is quite possible, that our present 're-awakening' into the realms of the de-differentiation of the brain with mind, may in the near future lead to greater discoveries, and in the far term, offer insight into such previously sacro sanct concepts such as reincarnation, personal information storage, and time/space travel backwards and forwards. I think it is conceivable, if machines would become almost having total control, that personal self consciousness may be keyed into ephemeral machines, capable to keep that going fairly indefinitely,at least, until the spaceship transporting such entities stop finding host planets. Perhaps that too, can be overcome.

Given that type of scenario, machines may resemble a Wellsian world, and it may really become a very involved and highly competitive life work for those, who still want to continue.

This is why i think religion is so very important, the personal ego once tamed, death will not seem as threatening, and god will be interpreted as the keeper of souls, in a mass-think thank, with minimum individuality. It takes a lot of faith, to be able to join a group-think, and the venture capitalists, who may attain immortality, will gradually be reduced numerically. Two empires, one good, the other bad, may learn to coexist with periodic conflicts and resolutions thereof.

At this point, the major cataclysm, will force natural process to cast down, the eternal ones.
Here, a new incarnation will begin, a brand new beginning, the evolutionary steps imperceptibly , but virtually, land a new man, into a brand new world,within a clear slate.

So the answer is yes, there will be an age of cyborg gods and human underlings, but not long enough for man to remember the very long sleep between incarnations, and for them, god, satan will again will become an existential necessity. So the answer is also no. This is why i stay within the indeterminable column. You, never really know, will never know, because even in that age, blade runners, and humanoids will subsist, even as, there was some modicum of self recognition in the laboratory of Dr. Moreau.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
Orbie
partly cloudy, with a few showers
 
Posts: 7596
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:34 pm
Location: Night of infinite faith

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Tue May 27, 2014 9:03 am

obe wrote:And the goal is? Total domination of the planet's vast majority for the benefit of the few? Control of anarchy?

Seems pretty obvious.

obe wrote:But are these exhaustive ends, or are there others such as being able to feed the ever growing, equally exponential, Malthusian growth of the world's population, so that people will not destroy each other totally, at least those, who can live on bread alone?

The population is no where near as exponential as the technology growth behind closed doors. The population rate in the USA is less than 1% and has been declining for decades.

And can you relate robot labor and zero privacy to the population rate for us, because I'm not seeing a relationship along the lines that you seem to be implying. How does increased unemployment and tracking every thought and utterance help feed "the ever growing masses"?
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Orbie » Tue May 27, 2014 3:25 pm

By that time, world population as a whole, will be indexed, without national boundaries, i suppose. the so called post colonial and developing nations are still surging at growing population rates exceeding supply and there will a time when the food supply may too, become a scarce commodity. The Malthusian curve may relax somewhat, but by that time, the US may be only one of many nations viewing into the market. The numbers are high already, but if programs of population control are not instituted, such a scenario is as certain, as the one presented with robotization.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
Orbie
partly cloudy, with a few showers
 
Posts: 7596
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:34 pm
Location: Night of infinite faith

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Lev Muishkin » Tue May 27, 2014 7:07 pm

obe wrote:And the goal is? Total domination of the planet's vast majority for the benefit of the few? Control of anarchy? But are these exhaustive ends, or are there others such as being able to feed the ever growing, equally exponential, Malthusian growth of the world's population, so that people will not destroy each other totally, at least those, who can live on bread alone?


It is expected that the death rate will soon exceed the birth rate in developed countries _ for the first time in history.

http://www.prb.org/Publications/Datashe ... ation.aspx

As the 'developing countries' also join the family of developed ones they will likely trend towards this position too.
Malthus' predictions never happened when he said they would. The reason is that more and more land was brought under the plough to feed the growing populations. Obviously there is a limit to the land, and so the trend he talked of may one day come to pass. But al the evidence currently suggests that as countries develop and educate their citizens, those citizens choose to restrict their fertility and have fewer children.

For example, in China the rate of population growth has dropped to less than 0.5%, this is a consequence far beyond the "one child" policy introduced 30 years ago. It's a consequence of education and urbanisation, and - let's face it overcrowding. So these things either tend to sort themselves out with plague and famine or people act in their own interests.
Malthus is great for rats, but people are different.

None of this has any relevance to the thread though.

"Science is entirely Faith Based.... Obama is Muslim....Evil is the opposition to life (e-v-i-l <=> l-i-v-e ... and not by accident). Without evil there could be no life.", James S. Saint.
"The Holocaust was the fault of the Jews; The Holocaust was not genocide", Kriswest
"A Tortoise is a Turtle", Wizard
" Hitler didn't create the Nazis. In reality, the Judists did ... for a purpose of their own. Hitler was merely one they chose to head it up after they discovered the Judist betrayal in WW1, their "Judas Iscariot";James S Saint.
These just keep getting funnier.
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Lev Muishkin
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Orbie » Tue May 27, 2014 8:32 pm

Lev Muishkin wrote:
obe wrote:And the goal is? Total domination of the planet's vast majority for the benefit of the few? Control of anarchy? But are these exhaustive ends, or are there others such as being able to feed the ever growing, equally exponential, Malthusian growth of the world's population, so that people will not destroy each other totally, at least those, who can live on bread alone?


It is expected that the death rate will soon exceed the birth rate in developed countries _ for the first time in history.

http://www.prb.org/Publications/Datashe ... ation.aspx

As the 'developing countries' also join the family of developed ones they will likely trend towards this position too.
Malthus' predictions never happened when he said they would. The reason is that more and more land was brought under the plough to feed the growing populations. Obviously there is a limit to the land, and so the trend he talked of may one day come to pass. But al the evidence currently suggests that as countries develop and educate their citizens, those citizens choose to restrict their fertility and have fewer children.

For example, in China the rate of population growth has dropped to less than 0.5%, this is a consequence far beyond the "one child" policy introduced 30 years ago. It's a consequence of education and urbanisation, and - let's face it overcrowding. So these things either tend to sort themselves out with plague and famine or people act in their own interests.
Malthus is great for rats, but people are different.

None of this has any relevance to the thread though.




Lev, and to not to beat a dead horse, the earth's population say back 500 years ago , and i am guesstimating, for the sake of time (but will look up later) was 10 percent of what it is today. The fact is, we have multiplied like rats, without thinking whether we can afford to, and it has already brought us near critical levels? The slight projected population drops, made within the contexts of predictability, most likely will pan out and have a leveling off effect, however, we are already there at the point of no return. The Malthus curve may have been exaggerated, however, the gross numbers add up to a general vindication of at least the showing of a non linear graph, up to now. What happens in another 500 years, is purely speculative, albeit reasonable to argue.


Just looked at up, and the consensus is 500 million around the year 1,500 AD. That is approx 1/14 or less then 7% of the current population.And it is noted, that most of the growth occurred the last 200 years.


"The Economist" Thursday Aug 21 2008 , Jeff Sachs : Have we beaten Malthus?
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
Orbie
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Tue May 27, 2014 9:14 pm

Obe, please be careful with Makthus and Malthusianism! There is much propaganda! Please be careful with concepts like "Malthus curve", "Malthusian dilemma", "Malthusian catastophe", "Malthusian crisis", "Malthusian nightmare" and so on ....

Image

Is the population always rising at a geometric rate? Is the food always growing at an arithmetic rate?

Do you know how the food has been growing since the industrial revolution?

In addition: Many of the demographic "informations" are "desinformations".

Already during his lifetime "Malthus was criticized severely. His fellow clergymen thought he was crazy; politicians and journalists called him a heretic. But others, especially a famous economist of the time named David Ricardo, made much use of the Malthusian theory. Let’s delve a little more deeply into why Malthus came up with such heretical ideas. We will see that although his theories didn’t describe the industrial society of his own time very well, they did do a good job of describing preindustrial Europe (and perhaps certain less developed countries today)." - Economics Today
Last edited by Arminius on Tue May 27, 2014 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Lev Muishkin » Tue May 27, 2014 9:22 pm

obe wrote:
Lev Muishkin wrote:
obe wrote:And the goal is? Total domination of the planet's vast majority for the benefit of the few? Control of anarchy? But are these exhaustive ends, or are there others such as being able to feed the ever growing, equally exponential, Malthusian growth of the world's population, so that people will not destroy each other totally, at least those, who can live on bread alone?


It is expected that the death rate will soon exceed the birth rate in developed countries _ for the first time in history.

http://www.prb.org/Publications/Datashe ... ation.aspx

As the 'developing countries' also join the family of developed ones they will likely trend towards this position too.
Malthus' predictions never happened when he said they would. The reason is that more and more land was brought under the plough to feed the growing populations. Obviously there is a limit to the land, and so the trend he talked of may one day come to pass. But al the evidence currently suggests that as countries develop and educate their citizens, those citizens choose to restrict their fertility and have fewer children.

For example, in China the rate of population growth has dropped to less than 0.5%, this is a consequence far beyond the "one child" policy introduced 30 years ago. It's a consequence of education and urbanisation, and - let's face it overcrowding. So these things either tend to sort themselves out with plague and famine or people act in their own interests.
Malthus is great for rats, but people are different.

None of this has any relevance to the thread though.




Lev, and to not to beat a dead horse, the earth's population say back 500 years ago , and i am guesstimating, for the sake of time (but will look up later) was 10 percent of what it is today. The fact is, we have multiplied like rats, without thinking whether we can afford to, and it has already brought us near critical levels? The slight projected population drops, made within the contexts of predictability, most likely will pan out and have a leveling off effect, however, we are already there at the point of no return. The Malthus curve may have been exaggerated, however, the gross numbers add up to a general vindication of at least the showing of a non linear graph, up to now. What happens in another 500 years, is purely speculative, albeit reasonable to argue.


Just looked at up, and the consensus is 500 million around the year 1,500 AD. That is approx 1/14 or less then 7% of the current population.And it is noted, that most of the growth occurred the last 200 years.


"The Economist" Thursday Aug 21 2008 , Jeff Sachs : Have we beaten Malthus?


The idea that there can be a 'point of no return' is misconceived, and plays no part in what Malthus actually said.

Malthus was wrong. His greatest contribution was to influence Darwin who realised that the demands of resources against population was the driving force of evolution. With no pressure there is no evolution. Were we to achieve complete equilibrium, artificially maintained, the only somatic evolution we could achieve would be also artificial.

Since he wrote his thesis, mechanisation has continued to allow the resource base to outstrip population growth whilst human choice has mitigated population pressure.

"Science is entirely Faith Based.... Obama is Muslim....Evil is the opposition to life (e-v-i-l <=> l-i-v-e ... and not by accident). Without evil there could be no life.", James S. Saint.
"The Holocaust was the fault of the Jews; The Holocaust was not genocide", Kriswest
"A Tortoise is a Turtle", Wizard
" Hitler didn't create the Nazis. In reality, the Judists did ... for a purpose of their own. Hitler was merely one they chose to head it up after they discovered the Judist betrayal in WW1, their "Judas Iscariot";James S Saint.
These just keep getting funnier.
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Lev Muishkin
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Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:58 am

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Orbie » Wed May 28, 2014 12:30 am

Thanks Arminus, Lev, will note.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
Orbie
partly cloudy, with a few showers
 
Posts: 7596
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:34 pm
Location: Night of infinite faith

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