Will machines completely replace all human beings?

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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:29 am

monad wrote:Whatever you like! This thread no-longer holds any interest for me.

What a bummer! What a pity! Can't I keep you here?

But okay: Whatever you like!

Regards.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby phyllo » Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:52 am

The claims about the IQ are supported! but you don't want them to be supported. That's your problem, not mine. I can specify many sources and statistics, but you won't accept them. That's your problem, not mine. A much greater danger is the fact that people believe in opposite nonsense and in the silly "Flynn effect" and other nonsense and misinformation, including yours. :(
You haven't specified any sources or statistics.

And reason is that I won't accept them???

You're quite the character. LOL

At least this last post of yours was fun. :wink:
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby monad » Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:17 am

Re IQ:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/iq-tests-are-fundamentally-flawed-and-using-them-alone-to-measure-intelligence-is-a-fallacy-study-finds-8425911.html

I especially like this quote from the article:

“It has always seemed to be odd that we like to call the human brain the most complex known object in the Universe, yet many of us are still prepared to accept that we can measure brain function by doing a few so-called IQ tests,” Dr Highfield said.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/9755929/IQ-tests-do-not-reflect-intelligence.html

Even those who are not so negative on IQ testing admit that there are some deep flaws in the method.

The validity of IQ tests have been under scrutiny for quite a number of years so there is really nothing new in this...except for some!
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:38 am

phyllo wrote:You haven't specified any sources or statistics.

You haven't specified sources or statistics, and you don't like statistics!
I don't have to specify sources or statistics for you because (a) you can't read the sources (they are not in English), (b) you don't like sources and statistics, (c) you don't "take the thread seriously at all":

phyllo wrote:I don't take the thread seriously at all.

Why you are writing here in this thread, Phyllo?

phyllo wrote:In general, I find fun to be easier (and more enjoyable) in real life because body language and tone of voice adds so much richness to the discussion. Wittiness, irony, satire, playfulness, etc, don't work well in forums.

So again: Why are you writing here, especially in this thread, Phyllo? Why don't you leave the house in order to enjoy the forest?

Enjoy the forest, Phyllo! I wish you much fun!

Good bye.
Last edited by Arminius on Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:02 pm

monad wrote:This thread no-longer holds any interest for me.

And why are you still writing here in this thread?

Do you know Phyllo? He has also no interest in this thread, although he is writing more and more in this thread.

Why don't you both search for another thread?

Do you know what "pharisee" means?

monad wrote:Re IQ ....

I am positive on IQ testing. It is partly right that there are some flaws in the method, but the statement that intelligence is not measurable at all is wrong. The correct measurement of intelligence depends very much on the statistics and on the long-term measurement.

B.t.w.: Your "sources" are full of egalitarian(istic) rhetoric.

You and Phyllo are against the IQ because you are following the communistic mainstream. That's dangerous.

IN US (the new USSR) and EU (EUSSR) "communism" and "socialism" are alraedy installed:

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Please search for another thread, because you both are saying that you are not interested in this thread, whilst you are writing more an more in this thread!
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:56 pm

      Questions can't be wrong!

      So:

      Will machines completely replace all human beings?
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    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby Ierrellus » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:10 pm

    A major event in the evolution of the human brain came when the brain achieved a certain level that allowed self-consciousness. It achieved an "I". Are there any computers that can do this?
    "We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
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    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby Ierrellus » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:10 pm

    duplicate post
    "We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
    I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
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    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby James S Saint » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:33 pm

    phyllo wrote:
    Lev wrote:I'm in "What a stupid meaningless question" column, and I bet so are most of the rest of "no".
    I posted to clear up a misrepresentation of the movie 'Robocop' and I ended up in 'no'. I'm actually in the 'silly nonsense - not worth discussing' column.

    You both appear to be in the "too naive to discuss such a subject" column.

    Ierrellus wrote:A major event in the evolution of the human brain came when the brain achieved a certain level that allowed self-consciousness. It achieved an "I". Are there any computers that can do this?

    Have been since the 80's.

    Even in a "simple" power regulator for one of IBM's semiconductor testing systems, I designed the regulator to very carefully distinguish itself from influences upon it. It had merely a little Z80 microprocessor and small memory, but was tasked to ensure that the power going into the system was extremely clean of spurious noise and affects.

    The most common of such situations is when the regulator has no means of knowing whether it was being affected by the noise and thus merely passing on its own subjective mindset (as people and especially governments often do). The simplest form of this is called a "ground loop" because the "ground" is supposed to be the zero reference. But when the grounding is affected (by current passing through it), it is no longer at "zero". So I had a processor on board to decipher where "real ground" was despite where it would seem to have been by normal measuring means.

    For the processor to determine where ground "really was" meant that it had to know the difference between itself, its output, its input, and ground. People have a really hard time doing that. But that little regulator could because unlike people, it was programmed to not presume - to verify everything related to the issue.
    Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
    Else
    From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

    The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

    You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
    The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
    It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
    As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

    Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
    Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

    The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
    .
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    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby Arminius » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:34 pm

    Ierrellus wrote:A major event in the evolution of the human brain came when the brain achieved a certain level that allowed self-consciousness. It achieved an "I".

    What do you mean with "I"? Intelligence?
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    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby Ierrellus » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:38 pm

    Arminius wrote:Text follows ....

    By "I" I meant consciousness of Self. JSS seems to think such computers exist.
    "We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
    I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
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    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby James S Saint » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:40 pm

    Self awareness is not an issue for computers.
    Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
    Else
    From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

    The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

    You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
    The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
    It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
    As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

    Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
    Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

    The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
    .
    James S Saint
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    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby phyllo » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:43 pm

    The validity of IQ tests have been under scrutiny for quite a number of years so there is really nothing new in this...except for some!
    The assertion that IQ cannot be measured is different from the assertions that IQ is going up or IQ is going down.
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    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby Ierrellus » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:43 pm

    James S Saint wrote:Self awareness is not an issue for computers.

    I think it should be if they are to replace humans.
    "We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
    I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
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    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby phyllo » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:44 pm

    James S Saint wrote:Self awareness is not an issue for computers.
    That's because they are not self-aware.
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    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby Arminius » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:48 pm

    James S Saint wrote:
    phyllo wrote:
    Lev wrote:I'm in "What a stupid meaningless question" column, and I bet so are most of the rest of "no".
    I posted to clear up a misrepresentation of the movie 'Robocop' and I ended up in 'no'. I'm actually in the 'silly nonsense - not worth discussing' column.

    You both appear to be in the "too naive to discuss such a subject" column.

    That is absolutely right. =D>
    One could also call it the "Stupid meaningless answer" column, or the "Dsiagreement without any argument" column, or the "I don't like this thread because I write in this thread" column. :lol:

    Questions can't be stupid or wrong, but answers can be very stupid and wrong.

    They all are writing more and more in this thread, although they don't like this thread.

    Funny, funny.
    Last edited by Arminius on Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:55 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby Lev Muishkin » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:48 pm

    James S Saint wrote:Self awareness is not an issue for computers.


    Nothing is an issue for computers.
    All issues associated with computers, are humans issues.
    This entire thread is based on a false understanding of the relationship of man and machine.

    "Science is entirely Faith Based.... Obama is Muslim....Evil is the opposition to life (e-v-i-l <=> l-i-v-e ... and not by accident). Without evil there could be no life.", James S. Saint.
    "The Holocaust was the fault of the Jews; The Holocaust was not genocide", Kriswest
    "A Tortoise is a Turtle", Wizard
    " Hitler didn't create the Nazis. In reality, the Judists did ... for a purpose of their own. Hitler was merely one they chose to head it up after they discovered the Judist betrayal in WW1, their "Judas Iscariot";James S Saint.
    These just keep getting funnier.
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    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby James S Saint » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:51 pm

    Lev Muishkin wrote:
    James S Saint wrote:Self awareness is not an issue for computers.


    Nothing is an issue for computers.
    All issues associated with computers, are humans issues.
    This entire thread is based on a false understanding of the relationship of man and machine.

    I'm not disagreeing with that, but what is it that makes you think that you understand that relationship?
    Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
    Else
    From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

    The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

    You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
    The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
    It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
    As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

    Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
    Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

    The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
    .
    James S Saint
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    Posts: 25976
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    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby phyllo » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:56 pm

    I don't have to specify sources or statistics for you because (a) you can't read the sources (they are not in English),

    You don't know which languages I read. You don't know that I don't have access to someone who can translate for me.
    And are you saying that only speakers of one language know about this trend? Germans only?
    (b) you don't like sources and statistics,
    You don't know what I think of sources and statistics. I haven't said.
    (c) you don't "take the thread seriously at all":Why you are writing here in this thread, Phyllo?
    Now you are talking to me directly and I am responding. Notice that I have not posted anything about your OP question.
    Why don't you leave the house in order to enjoy the forest?
    There is no forest nearby.

    Why don't you respond to my query and we'll be done.
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    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby Ierrellus » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:59 pm

    Consciousness of Self may be the generator of creativity.
    "We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
    I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
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    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby phyllo » Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:09 pm

    You both appear to be in the "too naive to discuss such a subject" column.
    You're all about definitions. Have you defined machine? Human? Replace? A timescale?
    An inclined plane is a simple machine ... will inclined planes replace all humans?
    Is a human with a hip replacement still a human or a cyborg?
    What will happen in a million years?
    For the processor to determine where ground "really was" meant that it had to know the difference between itself, its output, its input, and ground. People have a really hard time doing that. But that little regulator could because unlike people, it was programmed to not presume - to verify everything related to the issue.
    Going by this ...even a thermostat is conscious.
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    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby Arminius » Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:15 pm

    phyllo wrote:Why don't you respond to my query and we'll be done.

    Because you don't like this thread as much as you don't like science, statistics, and intelligence.

    Why are you writing in this thread? You don't like this thread. So why should I "respond to your query".

    phyllo wrote:I ended up in 'no'. I'm actually in the 'silly nonsense - not worth discussing' column.

    That are also your words. So your Silly nonsense - not worth discussing' column can also be called the "Stupid meaningless answer" column, or the "Dsiagreement without any argument" column, or the "I don't like this thread because I write in this thread" column.
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    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby James S Saint » Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:23 pm

    phyllo wrote:
    For the processor to determine where ground "really was" meant that it had to know the difference between itself, its output, its input, and ground. People have a really hard time doing that. But that little regulator could because unlike people, it was programmed to not presume - to verify everything related to the issue.
    Going by this ...even a thermostat is conscious.

    Consciousness requires remote recognition, not merely awareness.

    And Self-awareness requires consciousness because it requires a recognition of the whole of itself. A simple PC has that degree of consciousness. It has an internal map/picture of itself versus other activities. The OS knows the difference between when it has initiated what is going on versus something else causing it. It watches itself. And it recognizes a printer versus a display or a DVD drive.

    And if a Microsoft product, is very probably accustom to "nervous breakdowns".
    Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
    Else
    From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

    The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

    You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
    The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
    It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
    As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

    Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
    Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

    The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
    .
    James S Saint
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    Posts: 25976
    Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby Ierrellus » Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:31 pm

    I say to my computer, "I love You". It is silent. So should I take silence as an answer?
    "We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
    I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
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    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby phyllo » Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:41 pm

    Because you don't like this thread as much as you don't like science, statistics, and intelligence.

    Why are you writing in this thread? You don't like this thread. So why should I "respond to your query".
    Okay, I understand. For you, it's all about the poster and not the posts.

    I won't bother interacting with you again.
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