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Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:08 pm
by Arminius
Peter Sloterdijk wrote in his diary on the 11th of May 2009:

"Woran würde man das Ende der Geschichte erkennen? Vielleicht am Aufhören der Sorge."
- Peter Sloterdijk, "Zeilen und Tage", 2012, S. 197.
My translation:
"By what would one recognise the end of the history? Perhaps by the cessation of the care."
- Peter Sloterdijk, "Lines and Days", 2012, p. 197.

Image

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:08 pm
by Orbie
Victor Orban, president of Hungary, in 2012-

"God willhelp us and we will not have to invent a new type of political system instead of democracy that would would need to be introduced for the sake of economic survival" Incidently, he considered Hungary to be an Asian country.

For him democracy means something else, whereas,
'Many still believe that we live in a democracy even though there are clear signs suggesting otherwise.'

'mass surveillance
violent suppressin of protests
attacks on minorities
expanding military industrial complex' and the list goes on.

'We have the freedom to choose all sorts of products or lifestyles, but this not necessarily guarantee our personal or political freedom.

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:13 pm
by James S Saint
Arminius wrote:Peter Sloterdijk wrote in his diary on the 11th of May 2009:

"Woran würde man das Ende der Geschichte erkennen? Vielleicht am Aufhören der Sorge."
- Peter Sloterdijk, "Zeilen und Tage", 2012, S. 197.
My translation:
"By what would one recognise the end of the history? Perhaps by the cessation of the care."
- Peter Sloterdijk, "Lines and Days", 2012, p. 197.

Image

Yeah, that is very true. When people have been so confounded by all of the manipulations, information, and disinformation overload, they stop caring about so called "grand issues" that demarcate a change in history. Once they don't care about such things, wars that would change the face of history are much more difficult to contrive. And due to that "perpetual war" is being strongly considered and will result in that same lack of caring and lack of any substantial change. But before that happens, I imagine they will have already rearranged the nations into the new order and established the Global Empire.


And welcome back. 8)

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:03 pm
by Arminius
James S Saint wrote:
Arminius wrote:Peter Sloterdijk wrote in his diary on the 11th of May 2009:

"Woran würde man das Ende der Geschichte erkennen? Vielleicht am Aufhören der Sorge."
- Peter Sloterdijk, "Zeilen und Tage", 2012, S. 197.
My translation:
"By what would one recognise the end of the history? Perhaps by the cessation of the care."
- Peter Sloterdijk, "Lines and Days", 2012, p. 197.

Image

Yeah, that is very true. When people have been so confounded by all of the manipulations, information, and disinformation overload, they stop caring about so called "grand issues" that demarcate a change in history. Once they don't care about such things, wars that would change the face of history are much more difficult to contrive. And due to that "perpetual war" is being strongly considered and will result in that same lack of caring and lack of any substantial change. But before that happens, I imagine they will have already rearranged the nations into the new order and established the Global Empire.


And welcome back. 8)

Thanks, James.

I hope I translated the German word „Sorge“ correctly because philosophically it is a bit difficult to translate: „Sorge“ means „care“, „concern“, „trouble“, „anxiety“, „worry“, „solicitude“, „sorrow“, ... and so on. The words „besorgen“ (verb), „versorgen“ (verb), „Vorsorge“ (noun), „umsorgen“ (verb), „fürsorgen“ (verb), „Fürsorge“ (noun), ... and many others are derived from the words „Sorge“ (noun) and „sorgen“ (verb), and this has not only a special meaning in the German language but also in the German philosophy - since Heidegger also in the worldwide philosophy.

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:12 pm
by James S Saint
Accurately translating can be ... emmm ... fun. :D

I have that kind of fun with Hebrew and Hindu concepts.
Knowing what is meant and knowing how to say it in any particular language are different things. :-?

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:06 pm
by Arminius
So we have i.e. the nouns „care“, „concern“, „trouble“, „anxiety“, „worry“, „solicitude“, „sorrow“, „forhandedness“, „precaution“, „prevention“, „aid“, „ministration“, „providence“, „provision“, „welfare“, „relief“, „supplying“, ..., and many others and i.e. the verbs , „to (take) care“, „to prevent“, „to provide (for)“, „to look (ahead)“, „to attend (to)“, „to obtain“, „to procure“, „to secure“, „to find (something)“, „to fix (someone) up (with something)“, „to look (after)“, „to supply “, „to accomodate (someone with something)“, „to shepherd (soemone)“, ..., and many others. No one of that words really means to 100% what one of the words „Sorge“ (noun), „sorgen“ (verb), „besorgen“ (verb), „versorgen“ (verb), „Vorsorge“ (noun), „umsorgen“ (verb), „fürsorgen“ (verb), „Fürsorge“ (noun) means.

In the case above the word „care“ fits the most, I think. But what do you think?

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:10 pm
by James S Saint
I am pretty sure that you got it right. And if he didn't really mean that, he should have. :wink:

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:20 pm
by Arminius
James S Saint wrote:I am pretty sure that you got it right. And if he didn't really mean that, he should have. :wink:

I am pretty sure too that I got it right. And I am also pretty sure that Sloterdijk really meant his words like I translated them.

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:47 am
by HatingMeIsEasier
All history starts with ignorance.

Ignorance will never end.

History will never end in turn.

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:14 am
by Only_Humean
Arminius wrote:
James S Saint wrote:I am pretty sure that you got it right. And if he didn't really mean that, he should have. :wink:

I am pretty sure too that I got it right. And I am also pretty sure that Sloterdijk really meant his words like I translated them.


Your translation is clear, although Sorge is care in the sense of caring, paying attention; care as a standalone noun often means or implies medical care - a care home is a residence for people who need some form of ongoing medical care. I think a native English speaker would say something like "How should we recognise the end of the history? Perhaps it (is/will be) when we cease caring."

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:57 pm
by Orbie
Care about what? He left the question open ended? Like a blank check? If he did it was in the Nietzchean sense of analysis. The alalysis of chaos, if meaning can not be reinstated structurally, Yes? One always needs an object, or objects, if one is not to fall into the absurd regressions of both Ayer and Russell. But that object is only for general consumption, and 'caring' as some kind of general resurrection via the general notion of the above mentioned reductions, means a failure of understanding the artifacts(tools) used to avoid the total collapse. Being, Dasein, as specific ideas in-them-selves, are unforgiving and unforgattable pre-requisites, toward a general sense of unification.
Before we can care with a blank check for others, we have to care for ourselves... That caring is easier said than done, but can not be done, until it is understood.....This is why the above philosopher begs on the concept of the Superman.

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:34 pm
by Arminius
obe wrote:He left the question open ended?

WHO exactly left the question open ended?

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:39 pm
by James S Saint
Arminius wrote:
obe wrote:He left the question open ended?

WHO exactly left the question open ended?

I suspect he meant Friedrich Adolf Sorge ... but ... ?

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:32 am
by Orbie
Dasein IS an open ended question.The who is not,
besides, that.

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:37 pm
by Arminius
obe wrote:He left the question open ended?
obe wrote:Dasein IS an open ended question.The who is not,
besides, that.

But you asked for the "who", Obe!

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:27 pm
by Orbie
Arminius, just because there is a ? after a phrase, doesen't mean, it relates to questions of identity. In my case it was a double entendre,of implying the implicit union of the subjective with Dasein. I nevr implicated Serge to have a monopoly on it. As a matter of fact, it was after i posted that blog and became aware of the sorry and short life of thos poor man, who was not explicitly a philosopher.

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:12 am
by Arminius
Obe (Orb), you started your question with „he“ - see:
Obe (Orb) wrote:He left the question open ended?

So I asked you whom you meant. Who is „he“?

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:01 am
by Orbie
Oh i see. Yes it is Sorge, and the open enddness has to do with the wide interpretation of caring. Sorry about that.

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:59 am
by Arminius
To the noun "Sorge" refers the personal pronoun "it", not the personal pronoun "he". Or do you mean a person with the name "Sorge"? Who is "he" in your sentence: "He left the question open ended?", Obe (Orb)?

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:41 pm
by Orbie
Actually, i left it open ended, from caring, James came close by guessing Friedrich Sorge, but actually it turned out to be Reinhard Sorge, a youthful Nietzchean whose claim was that only certain select men can really belong the the highest ideal type. Do
not ask me about how and why i present this identity as the form of caring, but i really believe, form is not accessible substantively. My own identity (perceived)
from obe to orb is such is equally enigmatic, and i
could go into how i believe a virtual identity is replacing a conventionally adopted one, butthat would be straying from Peter Sloterdijk's open
endedness of what caring is all about. Caring has
been reduced, admittedly, to various modes, before it's specific application can be seen for what it is. It may be even most generally been transvalued into
other forms, because, the world has changed so
much in the last hundred years, that it is no more, a neighborly, recognizible place. The oen endedness is variously frought by the search: The search for the
old, the search for the neighberhood, in fact the
search of a history which i hazard inferquently recreate within the Dasain of psychedelic reintegrative, formulas, an alchemical attempt of
both: a simultaneous attempt at bringing together
the hermeneutics (interpretation) and description. This type of bringing together , is what dadaism and cubism is all about, Goethe said in Faust p1-'I have 2
souls in my breast.' As Goethe was the original in
respect to the developments of both Schopenhauer and Nietzche, I do not believe neither of whom has successfully resolved the old with the new, the ring,
has yet to re-open, in terms of basic understanding,
nor, in any revealing identifiable nature of the Dasein. Identity becomes a cloud, over a subtle sky, and it is only through the mystery and magic of its
own self desription, that union may be achieved.
Reinhard Sorge is one such an example with whom, we may seek eternal union, even if, if in passing,it's idea became vaguely apparent through the magic of
the internet's ability to become cognizant of an
accidental tourist as him. (or i for that matter) Now i am sure, Arminius, You may take this as an example of reading into the implications of the loaded chance
of becoming aware, of whom? Doesen't matter what
caring brings to the surface, who or even what it is, what does matter is that the ring retain it's magic fire. Persona disappear, only if their eruption briefly
light the magic fire of once having lived, loved, and
remembered.

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:06 am
by Arminius
You really meant Reinhard Johannes Sorge?

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:19 am
by Arminius
Only_Humean wrote:
Arminius wrote:
James S Saint wrote:I am pretty sure that you got it right. And if he didn't really mean that, he should have. :wink:

I am pretty sure too that I got it right. And I am also pretty sure that Sloterdijk really meant his words like I translated them.


Your translation is clear, although Sorge is care in the sense of caring, paying attention; care as a standalone noun often means or implies medical care - a care home is a residence for people who need some form of ongoing medical care. I think a native English speaker would say something like "How should we recognise the end of the history? Perhaps it (is/will be) when we cease caring."

Should I conclude from your answer that you know the German language?

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:53 am
by Orbie
Arminius wrote:You really meant Reinhard Johannes Sorge?


At the time , yes. The concept of open ended-ness, coincides with a dilution. Ideas can be taken out of context, on the premis of the relatedness of any tow ideas. All ideas can be deconstructed nominally, and the excess aren't left floating in a totally redundant field, they too form patterns along a time line of abandonment. They may re align and forming and reforming other patterns, into a new totality. The End of History should not shut out any and all relative patterns, that's is how critical it is, no boulder should be left unturned, not even ones professing a re-establishment of some kind of transcendent possibility. This is the function of modernity, to find peace within a technique of possibilities, a new humanity. Even a mistake may have some presently unknown reason for coming up.

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:00 am
by Arminius
Orb wrote:All ideas can be deconstructed ....

That's like: All ideas can be annihilated - by nihilists of course.

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:01 pm
by Only_Humean
Arminius wrote:
Only_Humean wrote:Your translation is clear, although Sorge is care in the sense of caring, paying attention; care as a standalone noun often means or implies medical care - a care home is a residence for people who need some form of ongoing medical care. I think a native English speaker would say something like "How should we recognise the end of the history? Perhaps it (is/will be) when we cease caring."

Should I conclude from your answer that you know the German language?


A little... I studied it at school, and speak fluent Dutch.