Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

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Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby Prismatic567 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:22 am

IMO, Emmanuel Kant is the greatest Western philosopher of all time.

How can we rate philosophers?
The great philosophers produced works that are open to tight scrutiny by their peers. Whilst there are likely to be some degrees of subjectivity, this can be eliminated if we based our rating of "good" philosophers or a large numbers of polls with a reasonable large participations.
For example,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/greatest_philosopher_vote_result.shtmlThis poll is supported by commentaries by existing philosophers.

In most polls on the 'Greatest Philosophers of all times" or 'Greatest Western Philosophers of all times" you will find Kant appearing within the top 5, if not top 10 and seldom out of the top 20.

Personally, Emmanuel Kant is the greatest Western philosopher of all time.
Kant improved on [and corrected] the philosophies of the ancients prior to his time up to Hume and changed the entire world by providing a new of thinking about how the human mind relates to the world [and reality].
For more details read here.
http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl201/ ... /kant.html
In addition one has to have a knowledge of the whole of Western Philosophy and a very in depth knowledge of Kant's philosophies and those of his immediate peers before we can make any reasonable judgment and rating.

IMO, the reason why Kant is not number one in all the polls is because Kant's philosophy [in part and fully] is EXTREMELY difficult to understand and grasp.

Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant? and the reasons for your claim?
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Re: Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby Lump » Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:41 am

Plenty! Kant wasn't great at all, he just seduced a lot of naïve philosophers with this endless fancy words. Kant has no relevance in modern times.
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Re: Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby Prismatic567 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:20 am

Lump wrote:Plenty! Kant wasn't great at all, he just seduced a lot of naïve philosophers with this endless fancy words. Kant has no relevance in modern times.

Plenty, who and why?

Unfortunately your views are based on ignorance of the full extent of Kant's Critical Philosophy.

Kant's philosophy was paradigm shifting but it was too far ahead of his time. However, lately it is slowly manifesting and realizing itself in our current phase of progress.

Kant is touted as the god-father of cognitive science by many;
http://http-server.carleton.ca/~abrook/KNT-CGSC.htm
Indeed, Kant is virtually the intellectual god-father of contemporary cognitive science, so deep-running is his influence....


If you google, 'Kant father of ..' you will note the following;
'Father of modern philosophy ..'
'Father of enlightenment ..
'Father of human rights ..'
'Father of modern arts ..'
Not everyone would agree with the above, but the fact of these claims indicate there are truths to them which one can verify by studying Kant's philosophy in details.

Humanity is striving for and toward perpetual peace and one will note the implicit strategies are parallel to those discussed by Kant since the late 1700s. If governments were to align their strategies along with Kant's ideas [hopefully that materialize soon] plus complementing it with others, then perpetual peace on Earth could be expedited.
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Re: Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby James S Saint » Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:37 am

Two of the greatest ontology philosophers were Hendrik Lorentz and James Maxwell.

Prism, as stated before, you have no means to gauge a good philosopher. You are still thinking that because you hear of something or someone a lot or hear of it in favorable terms, it is right and/or good. Your mind is merely a drone of modern social engineering.

What is it that makes an individual a good philosopher?

You don't know. There is a list of specific talents. Notoriety isn't on the list. The greatest of all philosophers go completely unknown unless they apply their philosophy into a religion, such as Jesus and Moses. Notoriety isn't the product of revealing truth, but of speaking what authorities want to be heard or becoming a social authority and speaking what the people want to hear.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby Prismatic567 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:20 am

James S Saint wrote:Two of the greatest ontology philosophers were Hendrik Lorentz and James Maxwell.
Both may be contributors to the pool of human knowledge, but they don't qualify within the 'philosophy' category. Many Physicists discuss philosophical issues, but we cannot classify them as philosopher-proper unless they have extensive philosophical works to show.

Prism, as stated before, you have no means to gauge a good philosopher. You are still thinking that because you hear of something or someone a lot or hear of it in favorable terms, it is right and/or good. Your mind is merely a drone of modern social engineering.
What is it that makes an individual a good philosopher?
You don't know. There is a list of specific talents.
There are no Absolutes of 'good' or anything.
It is up to us to arrive at a consensus of a set of rational criteria.
Being in a philosophical site, it is obvious we must discount first glance superficial unjustified popularity.

I have not produced a list of criteria but implicitly it would have included the following with certain weightages for specific criteria;
    1. Revolutionary philosophical theories -justified and soundly proven
    2. Extensiveness and range of involvement in philosophical topics
    3. Completeness, efficiency, systemacity, etc.
    4. Specialization, academic, [to vary weightage for these]
    5. Practically and contribution to humanity
    6. Extent of potential in time [less weight is only specific to an era]
    7. Use significantly in the modern era
    8. ?? Etc. [to list]

We should prepare a list of criteria with relevant weightages and obtain consensus before we proceed. The resultants will thus be qualified to the criteria, conditions and terms agreed upon.
In addition, those who participate should have a reasonable depth of knowledge of the philosophies of ALL the nominated philosophers.
On this basis there is objectivity amongst those who agree to the criteria and on the proviso we do our best to remove biasness. I believe this process is rational and easily acceptable.
At the end of the day, what counts is sound verifications and justifications with reality.

Notoriety isn't on the list. The greatest of all philosophers go completely unknown unless they apply their philosophy into a religion, such as Jesus and Moses. Notoriety isn't the product of revealing truth, but of speaking what authorities want to be heard or becoming a social authority and speaking what the people want to hear.
As I mentioned, I would ignore popularity and charisma.
I would also exclude religions, especially dubious theistic religions based on an illusory god which are not verifiable. Else I could bring in the Buddha, and other Eastern religious 'philosophers' who in my opinion is the greatest of all times in terms of theory and practical in terms of its potential for the future.
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Re: Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby Lump » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:15 am

Prismatic567 wrote:
Lump wrote:Plenty! Kant wasn't great at all, he just seduced a lot of naïve philosophers with this endless fancy words. Kant has no relevance in modern times.

Plenty, who and why?

Unfortunately your views are based on ignorance of the full extent of Kant's Critical Philosophy.

Kant's philosophy was paradigm shifting but it was too far ahead of his time. However, lately it is slowly manifesting and realizing itself in our current phase of progress.

Kant is touted as the god-father of cognitive science by many;
http://http-server.carleton.ca/~abrook/KNT-CGSC.htm
Indeed, Kant is virtually the intellectual god-father of contemporary cognitive science, so deep-running is his influence....


If you google, 'Kant father of ..' you will note the following;
'Father of modern philosophy ..'
'Father of enlightenment ..
'Father of human rights ..'
'Father of modern arts ..'
Not everyone would agree with the above, but the fact of these claims indicate there are truths to them which one can verify by studying Kant's philosophy in details.

Humanity is striving for and toward perpetual peace and one will note the implicit strategies are parallel to those discussed by Kant since the late 1700s. If governments were to align their strategies along with Kant's ideas [hopefully that materialize soon] plus complementing it with others, then perpetual peace on Earth could be expedited.
Your postulations are wishful thinking.
I can name Pythagoras of Samos: a² + b² = c², this is every relevant in modern times, yet you can't mention 1 single thing that has relevance for our modern times, only the predecessor to our modern understanding of things, which isn't the same.

But if you are speaking of compulsive writers, then i dunno, and don't care.
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Re: Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby Prismatic567 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:43 am

Lump wrote:Your postulations are wishful thinking.
I can name Pythagoras of Samos: a² + b² = c², this is every relevant in modern times, yet you can't mention 1 single thing that has relevance for our modern times, only the predecessor to our modern understanding of things, which isn't the same.

But if you are speaking of compulsive writers, then i dunno, and don't care.
You failed to understand the function of philosophers and that is why you simply cannot comprehend the contributions made by Kant in comparisons to other genuine philosophers.

Philosophers are not inventors or discoveries of mathematical or scientific theories like
a² + b² = c², or E = MC².
One of the purpose of philosophy and task of philosophers is to revolutionize and systematize thinking about reality. In the past many has the wrong and false representation of reality and it is the task of philosophers to put this right with sound justifications.

Note I wrote this in the OP and you do not seem to pick on it.
Kant improved on [and corrected] the philosophies of the ancients prior to his time up to Hume and changed the entire world by providing a new of thinking about how the human mind relates to the world [and reality].
For more details read here.
http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl201/ ... /kant.html

You mentioned Pythagoras whose supposedly significant contribution is in the sphere of Mathematics/Geometry but not philosophy. Even then, his contribution is doubtful and vague.

While the theorem that now bears his name was known and previously utilized by the Babylonians and Indians, he, or his students, are often said to have constructed the first proof. It must, however, be stressed that the way in which the Babylonians handled Pythagorean numbers implies that they knew that the principle was generally applicable, and knew some kind of proof, which has not yet been found in the (still largely unpublished) cuneiform sources.[49] Because of the secretive nature of his school and the custom of its students to attribute everything to their teacher, there is no evidence that Pythagoras himself worked on or proved this theorem. For that matter, there is no evidence that he worked on any mathematical or meta-mathematical problems.
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Re: Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby Lump » Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:07 pm

In ancient Greece math was indeed a branch of philosophy, besides we still have a saying "the cure must not be worse than the illness", or something, that's a saying lasting for over thousands of years, still in use today and still perfectly valid.

Even if Pythagoras can't be credited the equation is still valid and still useable, what of Kant are still useable today?
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Re: Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby hermes the thrice great » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:22 pm

In the words of that dude in my Modern European Class: Jesus Christ
"Like Lionel Ritchie/ Your whole style's bitchy"
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Re: Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby James S Saint » Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:19 pm

Prismatic567 wrote:
James S Saint wrote:Two of the greatest ontology philosophers were Hendrik Lorentz and James Maxwell.
Both may be contributors to the pool of human knowledge, but they don't qualify within the 'philosophy' category. Many Physicists discuss philosophical issues, but we cannot classify them as philosopher-proper unless they have extensive philosophical works to show.

When they derive independent ontological structure with precise detail that is so very accurately reflective of reality, they are far more philosopher than you will ever be.

Prismatic567 wrote:Being in a philosophical site, it is obvious we must discount first glance superficial unjustified popularity.

So why don't you ever do that?

Prismatic567 wrote:
    1. Revolutionary philosophical theories -justified and soundly proven [that would be merely a common result of a good philosopher. It is not a requirement of philosophizing]

    2. Extensiveness and range of involvement in philosophical topics [not a required talent at all]

    3. Completeness, efficiency, systemacity, etc. [those are on the list]

    4. Specialization, academic, [to vary weightage for these] [merely a common symptom]

    5. Practically and contribution to humanity [entirely a socio-political concern, having nothing at all to do with philosophizing]

    6. Extent of potential in time [less weight is only specific to an era] [perhaps "clarity in communication" is what you are looking for]

    7. Use significantly in the modern era [rather presumptuous requirement]

    8. ?? Etc. [to list]

What is that, merely one out of eight attempts?

Prismatic567 wrote:We should prepare a list of criteria with relevant weightages and obtain consensus before we proceed. The resultants will thus be qualified to the criteria, conditions and terms agreed upon.
In addition, those who participate should have a reasonable depth of knowledge of the philosophies of ALL the nominated philosophers.

There you go with the sheeple socio-political criteria again. Have you ever even thought of anything else?

Prismatic567 wrote:On this basis there is objectivity amongst those who agree to the criteria and on the proviso we do our best to remove biasness. I believe this process is rational and easily acceptable.

On that "basis", you get nothing but bias.

Prismatic567 wrote:At the end of the day, what counts is sound verifications and justifications with reality.

Close, but actually it is "verifications and justifications with wisdom". Truth is only the initial part of the puzzle and goal.

Prismatic567 wrote:As I mentioned, I would ignore popularity and charisma.

You haven't yet. It seems that is the only reason that Kant is your favorite.

Prismatic567 wrote:I would also exclude religions, especially dubious theistic religions based on an illusory god which are not verifiable. Else I could bring in the Buddha, and other Eastern religious 'philosophers' who in my opinion is the greatest of all times in terms of theory and practical in terms of its potential for the future.

Oh but of course, else you would be "biased" and bigoted.
:icon-rolleyes:
Last edited by James S Saint on Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
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Re: Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby Erik_ » Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:20 pm

I think Kant is a bit overrated. I'm not going to jump-the-gun and say he is irrelevant, but just over-hyped. I think Nietzsche deserves the spotlight more than he does; he pretty much sticked his middle-finger up to the entire philosophical pantheon, stabbing the belly of all those darling, didactic moralists --- contributing to the formation of postmodernity.
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Re: Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby Prismatic567 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:11 am

James S Saint wrote:
Prismatic567 wrote:
James S Saint wrote:Two of the greatest ontology philosophers were Hendrik Lorentz and James Maxwell.
Both may be contributors to the pool of human knowledge, but they don't qualify within the 'philosophy' category. Many Physicists discuss philosophical issues, but we cannot classify them as philosopher-proper unless they have extensive philosophical works to show.

When they derive independent ontological structure with precise detail that is so very accurately reflective of reality, they are far more philosopher than you will ever be.
Note Ontology is merely a sub-topic of Philosophy that comprised, Epistemology, Logic, Metaphysics [sub- Ontology], Ethics and General. In addition, ultimate ontological claims are impossible.
Their 'ontological' claims cannot be independent of their own inherent human framework and conditions as countered by Kant's Copernican Revolution.

Prismatic567 wrote:We should prepare a list of criteria with relevant weightages and obtain consensus before we proceed. The resultants will thus be qualified to the criteria, conditions and terms agreed upon.
In addition, those who participate should have a reasonable depth of knowledge of the philosophies of ALL the nominated philosophers.

There you go with the sheeple socio-political criteria again. Have you ever even thought of anything else?
Note I proposed a list of criteria which is open-ended and subject to consensus.

Prismatic567 wrote:On this basis there is objectivity amongst those who agree to the criteria and on the proviso we do our best to remove biasness. I believe this process is rational and easily acceptable.

On that "basis", you get nothing but bias.

As I said, I proposed a list of criteria which is open-ended and subject to consensus. If you do not agree, then provide your criteria for discussion.
Theistic elements don't count as they are very bias and based on emotions.

Prismatic567 wrote:I would also exclude religions, especially dubious theistic religions based on an illusory god which are not verifiable. Else I could bring in the Buddha, and other Eastern religious 'philosophers' who in my opinion is the greatest of all times in terms of theory and practical in terms of its potential for the future.

Oh but of course, else you would be "biased" and bigoted.
:icon-rolleyes:
Theistic elements are handed down by an infallible God.
In this case, you would be claiming god to be the philosopher.
God's messengers are merely puppets on strings.
The fact is God does not exists.

The Buddha and other non-theistic philosophers relied on their own reflective thinking and experience, and they are not God's loudspeakers.
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Re: Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby Prismatic567 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:16 am

hermes the thrice great wrote:In the words of that dude in my Modern European Class: Jesus Christ

hermes the thrice great wrote:In the words of that dude in my Modern European Class: Jesus Christ
Jesus, Moses, Paul, Muhammad were claimed to be philosophers. Note my point above.
God's messengers are merely puppets on strings.
And God does not exist.
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Re: Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby James S Saint » Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:50 am

Prismatic567 wrote: ultimate ontological claims are impossible.
Their 'ontological' claims cannot be independent of their own inherent human framework and conditions as countered by Kant's Copernican Revolution.

That is YOUR naive unprovable and un-demonstrable philosophy. Again, it is back to "what is good is whatever I personally like".

Prismatic567 wrote:Note I proposed a list of criteria which is open-ended and subject to consensus.

:lol: ... you just don't get it.

Truth and wisdom are not subject to "consensus" any more than mathematics. Is "2+2=4" only when the majority vote it to be true? Is "A <> A" if they decide that it isn't? Was the Earth really flat merely because most people thought so?

Prismatic567 wrote:If you do not agree, then provide your criteria for discussion.
Theistic elements don't count as they are very bias and based on emotions.

Haha :lol: .. "propose\d whatever you think is right ... as long as I think so too."
:icon-rolleyes:

Prismatic567 wrote:Theistic elements are handed down by an infallible God.

.,.according to your naive theory (handed down by fallible propagandists).
Prismatic567 wrote:In this case, you would be claiming god to be the philosopher.

That would depend on whether I said that God did the writing or whether God merely did the inspiring. Did Gravity propose the existence of gravity or did gravity inspire Newton to propose it?

Prismatic567 wrote:God's messengers are merely puppets on strings.

Haha :lol: ... again, unlike your communist propagandists.
Prismatic567 wrote:The fact is God does not exists.

Like you would have a clue.

Prismatic567 wrote:The Buddha and other non-theistic philosophers relied on their own reflective thinking and experience, and they are not God's loudspeakers.

Irrelevant.




You talk as if you actually had an interest in rational thought. When you first came here, I tested to see if that was real because I would enjoy such a discussion. It wasn't. And more than that, although you propose logic, you showed that you know nothing about it and can't distinguish logic or rational thought from your own biased stubbornness and anti-religion propaganda. They have a familiar phrase to explicate that condition;
"You don't know your ass from a hole in the ground". - strictly metaphor of course.


But if you ever really want to discuss real philosophical concerns, void of your prejudices, Kant worship, Communist agenda, and blindness, let me know.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby Prismatic567 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:27 am

Erik_ wrote:I think Kant is a bit overrated. I'm not going to jump-the-gun and say he is irrelevant, but just over-hyped. I think Nietzsche deserves the spotlight more than he does; he pretty much sticked his middle-finger up to the entire philosophical pantheon, stabbing the belly of all those darling, didactic moralists --- contributing to the formation of postmodernity.
I agree Kant's popularity is over-hyped and underrated because most people who think Kant is great do not understand the full extent and essence of his philosophy. They just follow the respect most serious philosophers had for Kant.

There is no denial amongst 'serious' philosophers (after Kant and heavily criticize his other principles) who would acknowledge Kant as the father of modern philosophy based on his very famous work, i.e.
-the reconciliation of Empiricism and Rationalism which had been going in parallel lines since the times of Thales.

The above whilst significant is merely one of Kant great contributions to the philosophy community.
To appreciate the full extent of Kant's work, one may have to put in considerable time which some have claimed one need 3-5 years of sustained reading and reflections. Personally I have invested a lot of time to study Kant's work and it is still work in progress and I need to put in more time.

IMO, the greatest work besides the specific philosophical concepts, ideas and theories, what is great about Kant is he 'teaches one how to fish' by providing a very extensive and well structured philosophical framework for one to philosophize reality.

One of his claims;
Kant wrote:In this enquiry I have made Completeness my chief aim, and I venture to assert that there is not a single metaphysical problem which has not been solved, or for the solution of which the key at least has not been supplied. A XIII

The soundness of Kant's philosophies is that they are parallel and comparable to the core principles of Eastern philosophies intellectually.
Since Eastern philosophies has been successfully in the practical fields, so Kant's philosophy has a lot of room to be extended to the practical and actual human actions.

As for postmodernism, Kant is recognized as the pioneer of postmodernism, example.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/postmodernism/
The philosophical modernism at issue in postmodernism begins with Kant's “Copernican revolution,” that is, his assumption that we cannot know things in themselves and that objects of knowledge must conform to our faculties of representation (Kant 1964).


I have read most of Nietsczhe's major books and he is great but I did not sense anything extraordinary great in his works. Nietsczhe acknowledged Kant's contribution to philosophy in certain areas and at the same time criticized Kant heavily is other areas. However, I noted he missed certain critical nuances of Kant's work that are critical to make full sense.
Last edited by Prismatic567 on Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby Prismatic567 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:35 am

James S Saint wrote:But if you ever really want to discuss real philosophical concerns, void of your prejudices, Kant worship, Communist agenda, and blindness, let me know.
Discuss philosophy with you?? your sense of philosophy is so skewed by the following;
I note you are heavily driven by the existential dilemma and philosophically you are a mere desperado like a cornered wounded tiger trapped inside a very tall silo.

Your throwing silly defenses and drivels above out of desperation to deflect the pains & sufferings you bring to yourself is one result of it.

As far as my approach is concern, I don't give consideration to 'who' but as long as there is any philosophical worth in any point raised by anyone, then I will respond [within the rules of this forum] and that is only for my own sake, i.e. to refresh the philosophical ideas I have. I am not here to please anyone or meet their expectations.
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Re: Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby James S Saint » Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:45 am

Prismatic567 wrote:I note you are heavily driven by the existential dilemma and philosophically you are a mere desperado like a cornered wounded tiger trapped inside a very tall silo.

That would be fine if you actually knew anything concerning my philosophizing ... which you don't. And that reflects, as I said, your own prejudices and biases (without even hearing what you are criticizing).

Prismatic567 wrote:Your throwing silly defenses and drivels above out of desperation to deflect the pains & sufferings you bring to yourself is one result of it.

You shouldn't talk to yourself in public. It's a bad sign related to that psychosis you keep preaching about .. always accusing of their own guilt. [-(

"Why is Kant the greatest philosopher?
Because he preaches my perverse agenda!"
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby Mr Reasonable » Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:34 am

Kant is the GOAT. You can study whatever you want, and whether you realize it or not, you're stuck in the system he either created, or identified.
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Re: Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby Prismatic567 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:44 am

mr reasonable wrote:You can study whatever you want, and whether you realize it or not, you're stuck in the system he either created, or identified.
That is true with any other philosophers, philosophy, or any system of knowledge [e.g. Science, economics, politics, etc.].

The precaution is to ensure that the system is not worn like a straight-jacket like those of theology and theism.
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Re: Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:18 pm

Actually, everyone is missing the obvious choice. Who awoke Kant from his dogmatic slumbers?
Easy choice for the greatest philosopher of all time and it ain't Kant.

BTW, has anyone here actually read Kant? His critique might be the most badly written book
of all time and that is in English which actually IMPROVES his book. In German, it is a complete and
total mess. He uses jargon and overwritten crap to say nothing.

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Re: Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby Orbie » Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:23 pm

In that sense, Hume may be the best, and the worst. It may be unwise, to awaken a slumber, an idlyll, where, creation it's self has perhaps not intended to go toward.
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sincere, the centre of
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Full well your need-as
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Re: Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby statiktech » Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:34 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:Actually, everyone is missing the obvious choice. Who awoke Kant from his dogmatic slumbers?
Easy choice for the greatest philosopher of all time and it ain't Kant.

BTW, has anyone here actually read Kant? His critique might be the most badly written book
of all time and that is in English which actually IMPROVES his book. In German, it is a complete and
total mess. He uses jargon and overwritten crap to say nothing.

Kropotkin


Hume was going to be my answer. The OP seems to assume that, since he built upon the ideas of Hume, Kant was ultimately the better philosopher, which I think is mistaken. Hume wasn't great because he influenced Kant; he influenced Kant because he was already great.
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Re: Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby Lump » Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:06 am

Peter Kropotkin wrote:BTW, has anyone here actually read Kant? His critique might be the most badly written book
of all time and that is in English which actually IMPROVES his book. In German, it is a complete and
total mess. He uses jargon and overwritten crap to say nothing.
First time someone speaks sense in a long time!

It's the Emperor's New Cloth with Kant and so many other weird philosophers, they get blinded by fancy wording, and thinks all this nonsense actually have meaning.
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Re: Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby Artimas » Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:28 am

Plato?

Even nothing, is something.
If one is to live balanced with expectations, then one must learn to appreciate the negative as well, to respect darkness in its own home.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

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Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

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Re: Any Western Philosopher Greater than Kant?

Postby Prismatic567 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:41 am

statiktech wrote:
Peter Kropotkin wrote:Actually, everyone is missing the obvious choice. Who awoke Kant from his dogmatic slumbers?
Easy choice for the greatest philosopher of all time and it ain't Kant.

BTW, has anyone here actually read Kant? His critique might be the most badly written book
of all time and that is in English which actually IMPROVES his book. In German, it is a complete and
total mess. He uses jargon and overwritten crap to say nothing.

Kropotkin
At least you are doing some acceptable comparison here.

Hume was going to be my answer. The OP seems to assume that, since he built upon the ideas of Hume, Kant was ultimately the better philosopher, which I think is mistaken. Hume wasn't great because he influenced Kant; he influenced Kant because he was already great.
Hume's philosophy is definitely great in many respects. Hume's 'Custom and Habits' [Empiricism] was merely the alarm bells that woke and prompted Kant from his dogmatic slumber [Rationalism], but he still have to resolve the problem.

Where Kant is greater than Hume where it count are the following;
Hume raised the 'Problem of Induction' but was never able to resolve it, since regardless of what his problem is, scientists continued to rely on induction and therefrom produce significant positive results for humanity.

Hume 'Problem of Induction' and 'Theory of Constant Conjunction' create the permanent horns of 'Rationalism' and 'Empiricism' and the twain could never be met.

Kant resolved Hume's Problem of Induction and save Science-proper from ungroundlessness and rationality. In that sense Kant is greater relatively to Hume. Kant went on to propose an ethical system that is more efficient than Hume's experience dependent model of morality.

Unfortunately Kant writing approach was really problematic, but his specific terms are necessary to get his philosophy through pre-conditionings. Given the sight of 'diamonds' therein his writings one has no choice but to dig, plod and shift through thickets of this thoughts.

H. J Paton, an Oxford and Kantian scholar expressed the difficulty as, reading and understanding the 'Deduction' [note merely one main point] was like crossing the Sahara desert.
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