Human Nature

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Human Nature

Postby project2501 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:48 pm

Define Human Nature in your own words.
Do not use the dictionary.
Instead think for yourself.
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Re: Human Nature

Postby Erik_ » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:56 pm

Deep question.

Entire books could be dedicated to this question, but to play along and give an abridged definition, human nature is characterized by the fear of death; a perpetual striving to negate that tenebrous finality.

My personal spin on it: Human nature is characterized by the will to power, the will to manifest and discharge one's power. The fear of death is merely a subset of this WTP.
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Re: Human Nature

Postby project2501 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:04 pm

Fear and Willpower exist in other animals and life, not confined to humanity. Therefore fear and willpower are extensions of natural life.

What separates humans from other animals, with respect to these designations? Would you assert that humans have a greater willpower than all other creatures on earth?
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Re: Human Nature

Postby Erik_ » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:07 pm

project2501 wrote:Fear and Willpower exist in other animals and life, not confined to humanity. Therefore fear and willpower are extensions of natural life.

What separates humans from other animals, with respect to these designations? Would you assert that humans have a greater willpower than all other creatures on earth?


What distinguishes us from the other animals is our mental faculties, our rational minds. Actually, I'd say most animals have more willpower than humans. Humans have become weak; too much safety and leisure can lead to atrophy of the will. Most animals don't have the luxury that we humans do, thus they must summon all their grit and will power to survive in a brutal milieu.
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Re: Human Nature

Postby project2501 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:13 pm

Would you then say rationality and mental faculties are what sets humans apart from other lifeforms as the primary defining trait?

Do you believe humans are the most intelligent lifeforms on earth? How about the galaxy?
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Re: Human Nature

Postby Erik_ » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:21 pm

project2501 wrote:Would you then say rationality and mental faculties are what sets humans apart from other lifeforms as the primary defining trait?

Do you believe humans are the most intelligent lifeforms on earth? How about the galaxy?


I think dolphins might have pride of place...

But, personally, yes - I would say that humans are the most intelligent species on the planet. In regards to other lifeforms on other planets, it's plausible that there are more intelligent sentient beings out there.
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Re: Human Nature

Postby project2501 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:36 pm

Human Rationality seems to be the most popular response concerning Human Nature.

But unfortunately, when people are pressed to define rationality in depth, mainly exposing the human intellect, people encounter many problems. What does it mean to define intelligence, and some people more intelligently than others? People talk about measuring IQ, which seems to be a disservice. Because animals are intelligent, but cannot take the human test measuring human intelligence. So more analysis is required with respect to human intelligence. Surely other animal species, even cats and dogs, demonstrate lower levels of intelligence, including capacity for emotion, empathy, playing, learning, and understanding.

Let's discuss intelligence in the context of human nature. Because if the intellect defines humanity, then does intellect define other species as well? For example, does bee intelligence define bee nature, or dolphin intelligence define dolphin nature?

Intelligence is a metaphysical quality. Whereas the body shape and size of an organism is material and obvious. Behaviors are also more obvious that intelligence.


Intelligence maybe merely a derivative of observed behaviors. Because not all behaviors are easy to predict. Animals are much easier to predict than humans, yes?
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Re: Human Nature

Postby project2501 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:58 pm

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Re: Human Nature

Postby James S Saint » Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:38 pm

The nature of humanity is that of a perception driven affectance.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
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Re: Human Nature

Postby project2501 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:06 pm

James S Saint wrote:The nature of humanity is that of a perception driven affectance.

I want to know more, can you go into great detail?
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Re: Human Nature

Postby James S Saint » Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:00 pm

project2501 wrote:
James S Saint wrote:The nature of humanity is that of a perception driven affectance.

I want to know more, can you go into great detail?

Probably far more than you would want to study. 8)

A fundamental life form has three fundamental properties or essences;
1) Awareness
2) Analysis
3) Influence (affectance)

A conscience life form has a special form of awareness called "perception". And that perception ability yields the property of remote recognition (being able to realize/perceive the remote sources of a sensed affects). And through that property, an internal subjective map (an updating understanding or ontology) of the terrain called "reality" forms its consciousness.

As any conscious life perceives affects upon it, it automatically classifies, by a variety of criteria, a "Perception of Hope and Threat", PHT, or "threat assessment" value relating to a variety of potential concerns. It is from such PHT assessments and values that the life form chooses its conscious actions. PHT guides all life.

The homosapian has an unusually high (for the animal kingdom) ability to mentally work with his internal map. He can not only remember actual perceptions, but also remember his own guesses and deductions of what might be true of his environment. He can intentionally or inadvertently alter his PHT map and even his perceptions through interdependent algorithms (not always accurate). And that poses a unique problem.

Homosapian has the ability to alter his own perception of reality. That makes his actions more independent of reality. But of course, it does not alter the real consequences of those actions. Thus he has the ability to fool himself into tragedy. He can cause himself to believe and behave as if he is independent of causality and consequence.

In addition to fooling himself, he has the ability to influence the perception of others and thus fool them as well. The others need not alter their perception very much because he is giving them directed, intentional affectance. He is intentionally altering their internal map, their perception and PHT. He does this so as to gain greater influence through their influence that is guided by their PHT. He can become a "Puppet Master" of others.

A homosapian can figure out how to use a horse to carry him, to use a cow to plow for him, a bird to see for him, a dog to hunt for him, and subjects to fight and die for him. He is a user of tools that often include other living creatures.

So homosapian is half blind from his altering of his own perception and half blind from having his perception altered by others. Thus he has affect upon the Earth through using misguided perception in mass - a Perception Driven Affectance upon the Earth, most often self-deluded by his attempts to be even more influential, a Godwannabe.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Human Nature

Postby Arminius » Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:00 am

When it comes to distinguish the nature of human beings from the nature of other living beings, then human nature is human culture/s. Although it is difficult to say whether there is one human culture or several human cultures, I would say, if I had to refer to merely one human culture, that a human being is a luxury being. In another thread I said:

The luxury is a very special phenomenon, especially for human beings. Human beings are luxury beings. They make their artificial island of luxury in the sea of nature. Evolution is not just about adaptation to nature, but also about distancing from nature, thus about the luxury islands.


Only human beings (thus no other living beings) are able to distance or disassociate themselves so much from nature. Humans live on islands of luxury. They have their human bubbles like hulls / shells, caves, huts / cottages, houses, beyond that: castles, churches / cathedrals, cities, city states, states, nations, empires, global empires ... and so forth. Because they are much more spiritual / mental / intellectual than other creatures, they have not only a bodily but also a spiritual immune system. This spiritual immune system is the main cause of the enormous luxury and the characteristic feature of human culture/s. Because of the fact that there are many different spiritual immune systems of humans possible, one should rather speak about several human cultures and not about one human culture.
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Re: Human Nature

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:21 pm

Erik_


Entire books could be dedicated to this question
,
Haven't they been, Erik? :evilfun: Space is not the final frontier - humanity is.


but to play along and give an abridged definition
,
Can one actually give an abridged definition of something so vast, so panoramic, so deep, so like the iceberg? Erik, you insult humanity by even suggesting that one could abridge a definition of our human natures. I need coffee.


human nature is characterized by the fear of death; a perpetual striving to negate that tenebrous finality.

So you're a Freudian? Is this what you think? It is all about the fear of death? What about human evolution. What does that tell you - perhaps that human nature ALSO strives to become more, to transcend, to re-create, to transform, not out of a sense of fear and oblivion but out of sense of Is this all there is and then proceeds to prove otherwise.
Why does it always have to be about defying death? Why can't life and death walk hand in hand together, kind of like friends, death teaching life - the wise old teacher - death is.


My personal spin on it: Human nature is characterized by the will to power, the will to manifest and discharge one's power. The fear of death is merely a subset of this WTP.

Define power and how is that power utilized, Erik? To destroy humanity or to create and to build up?
Of course, I will grant you that that is or may be the other side of the coin BUT let's not forget that the will to power also becomes the will to love and to affirm and to transcend, et cetera, within the right hands - and hearts and minds.

There ares Mufasa and there are Scars and each of us are both - it is in knowing this that we become more human.
Consciousness is the bridge between the animal world and the human world but we are also wonderful animals at the same time. I have no problem with that. lol
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: Human Nature

Postby Erik_ » Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:43 pm

Haven't they been, Erik? :evilfun: Space is not the final frontier - humanity is.


Of course they have, dear little angel :evilfun: Buttt lets not throw water-balloons on my parade.


Can one actually give an abridged definition of something so vast, so panoramic, so deep, so like the iceberg? Erik, you insult humanity by even suggesting that one could abridge a definition of our human natures. I need coffee.


Ggrrrrrr! I see your readings have sharpened your critical-analysis abilities. It has made you a bit more bold, more daring in your prose. :evilfun:

So you're a Freudian? Is this what you think? It is all about the fear of death? What about human evolution. What does that tell you - perhaps that human nature ALSO strives to become more, to transcend, to re-create, to transform, not out of a sense of fear and oblivion but out of sense of Is this all there is and then proceeds to prove otherwise.
Why does it always have to be about defying death? Why can't life and death walk hand in hand together, kind of like friends, death teaching life - the wise old teacher - death is.


Is that necessarily a Freudian thing? I think Freud was a myopic jackass, buttttt that's a whole different story. I was a bit hasty in my response to the OP in this regard and should have elaborated. Nietzsche thinks that the fear of death, as the ultimate drive of an organism was too cowardly a designation. He thought " will to power " did more justice and made more sense. I agree with Freddy on this. And it kind of seems like you do too, hence your use of " strives to transcend, to-recreate, to transform ", which Nietzsche would label as characteristics of the WTP.


Define power and how is that power utilized, Erik? To destroy humanity or to create and to build up?
Of course, I will grant you that that is or may be the other side of the coin BUT let's not forget that the will to power also becomes the will to love and to affirm and to transcend, et cetera, within the right hands - and hearts and minds.


Power is the potential of an entity to have an influence upon alterity. Creation and destruction are intertwined aspects of this two-fold voluptuous delight. And I agree with you on the latter part of your post here.

There ares Mufasa and there are Scars and each of us are both - it is in knowing this that we become more human.
Consciousness is the bridge between the animal world and the human world but we are also wonderful animals at the same time. I have no problem with that. lol


Yes, I agree with you here too, Arc. The Faustian divided soul is within us, a voluptuous contradiction.
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Re: Human Nature

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:44 pm

Fear of death defines the herd animal. A full fledged human sees death as just another fact of glory.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
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Re: Human Nature

Postby Erik_ » Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:55 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Fear of death defines the herd animal. A full fledged human sees death as just another fact of glory.


I like that; has a Spartan ring to it. Nice.
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Re: Human Nature

Postby Prismatic567 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:41 am

I like that 'BUMP' gif.
As a male, it aligns and synchronizes with my human nature [btw not in the porno sense].
There has been a lot of research showing the first sight the male set on the female is the cleavage.
That is probably as assessment of the lactating ability of the female to nurture the next generation.

Thus it is the will to live and procreation of the next generation within the human framework & environment that are the main leverage of human nature.
The avoidance of premature death till the inevitable is a subset of the above in the establishment of human nature. Note the conscious fear of death is a different psychological problem termed thanotophobia.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: Human Nature

Postby project2501 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:20 am

James S Saint wrote:Probably far more than you would want to study. 8)

Try to fill my memory bank


James S Saint wrote:A fundamental life form has three fundamental properties or essences;
1) Awareness
2) Analysis
3) Influence (affectance)

A conscience life form has a special form of awareness called "perception". And that perception ability yields the property of remote recognition (being able to realize/perceive the remote sources of a sensed affects). And through that property, an internal subjective map (an updating understanding or ontology) of the terrain called "reality" forms its consciousness.

As any conscious life perceives affects upon it, it automatically classifies, by a variety of criteria, a "Perception of Hope and Threat", PHT, or "threat assessment" value relating to a variety of potential concerns. It is from such PHT assessments and values that the life form chooses its conscious actions. PHT guides all life.

The homosapian has an unusually high (for the animal kingdom) ability to mentally work with his internal map. He can not only remember actual perceptions, but also remember his own guesses and deductions of what might be true of his environment. He can intentionally or inadvertently alter his PHT map and even his perceptions through interdependent algorithms (not always accurate). And that poses a unique problem.

Homosapian has the ability to alter his own perception of reality. That makes his actions more independent of reality. But of course, it does not alter the real consequences of those actions. Thus he has the ability to fool himself into tragedy. He can cause himself to believe and behave as if he is independent of causality and consequence.

In addition to fooling himself, he has the ability to influence the perception of others and thus fool them as well. The others need not alter their perception very much because he is giving them directed, intentional affectance. He is intentionally altering their internal map, their perception and PHT. He does this so as to gain greater influence through their influence that is guided by their PHT. He can become a "Puppet Master" of others.

A homosapian can figure out how to use a horse to carry him, to use a cow to plow for him, a bird to see for him, a dog to hunt for him, and subjects to fight and die for him. He is a user of tools that often include other living creatures.

So homosapian is half blind from his altering of his own perception and half blind from having his perception altered by others. Thus he has affect upon the Earth through using misguided perception in mass - a Perception Driven Affectance upon the Earth, most often self-deluded by his attempts to be even more influential, a Godwannabe.

Do you believe that humans have more intellect or conscious strength than any other animal? Is there an animal equal or superior to humanity?
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Re: Human Nature

Postby project2501 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:23 am

Arminius wrote:When it comes to distinguish the nature of human beings from the nature of other living beings, then human nature is human culture/s. Although it is difficult to say whether there is one human culture or several human cultures, I would say, if I had to refer to merely one human culture, that a human being is a luxury being. In another thread I said:

The luxury is a very special phenomenon, especially for human beings. Human beings are luxury beings. They make their artificial island of luxury in the sea of nature. Evolution is not just about adaptation to nature, but also about distancing from nature, thus about the luxury islands.


Only human beings (thus no other living beings) are able to distance or disassociate themselves so much from nature. Humans live on islands of luxury. They have their human bubbles like hulls / shells, caves, huts / cottages, houses, beyond that: castles, churches / cathedrals, cities, city states, states, nations, empires, global empires ... and so forth. Because they are much more spiritual / mental / intellectual than other creatures, they have not only a bodily but also a spiritual immune system. This spiritual immune system is the main cause of the enormous luxury and the characteristic feature of human culture/s. Because of the fact that there are many different spiritual immune systems of humans possible, one should rather speak about several human cultures and not about one human culture.

So culture is the same as nature?

Can you say more about humans being defined apart from animals because of luxury?
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Re: Human Nature

Postby project2501 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:26 am

Fixed Cross wrote:Fear of death defines the herd animal. A full fledged human sees death as just another fact of glory.

But some humans can foresee or predict death, while other humans cannot?
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Re: Human Nature

Postby project2501 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:28 am

Prismatic567 wrote:I like that 'BUMP' gif.
As a male, it aligns and synchronizes with my human nature [btw not in the porno sense].
There has been a lot of research showing the first sight the male set on the female is the cleavage.
That is probably as assessment of the lactating ability of the female to nurture the next generation.

Thus it is the will to live and procreation of the next generation within the human framework & environment that are the main leverage of human nature.
The avoidance of premature death till the inevitable is a subset of the above in the establishment of human nature. Note the conscious fear of death is a different psychological problem termed thanotophobia.

I am happy that you appreciate the irony of the bump

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Re: Human Nature

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:43 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Fear of death defines the herd animal. A full fledged human sees death as just another fact of glory.


Hmmm but that's not necessarily true, is it? Not all of us are warriors who think that dying for a cause is the greatest glory that there is.
Perhaps the "truest" warrior might also be the one who chooses to live for a cause. Yes, I know you didn't mention cause.
I think that it's impossible, being that we're humans, not to, at times, fear death...unless we simply do not value our lives, hold not much meaning for them. But it's how we respond to that fear which is important. We can learn from it, value its place, live in harmony with it. I suspect that even the truest warrior has fear in his heart, fear of death but he's the one who transcends it in the name of something greater than himself and greater than death...whatever that might be for him.

We might even say that a fear of death, at least a rational one, is an evolutionary strategy for staying alive. One could say that, couldn't one?
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: Human Nature

Postby James S Saint » Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:00 pm

project2501 wrote:Do you believe that humans have more intellect or conscious strength than any other animal? Is there an animal equal or superior to humanity?

I don't think in terms of "superior" when it comes to species (nor genders for that matter). There is a level and type of intellect that causes foolishness to the point of extinction. Prior to that event, anyone might think of that creature as superior.

Homosapian has the collective strength and intellect to design his own replacement as a species and thus willfully bring about his own extinction. Is that a "superior" creature?
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Human Nature

Postby Arminius » Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:58 pm

Hello, Project (Machine Project?).

project2501 wrote:
Arminius wrote:When it comes to distinguish the nature of human beings from the nature of other living beings, then human nature is human culture/s. Although it is difficult to say whether there is one human culture or several human cultures, I would say, if I had to refer to merely one human culture, that a human being is a luxury being. In another thread I said:

The luxury is a very special phenomenon, especially for human beings. Human beings are luxury beings. They make their artificial island of luxury in the sea of nature. Evolution is not just about adaptation to nature, but also about distancing from nature, thus about the luxury islands.


Only human beings (thus no other living beings) are able to distance or disassociate themselves so much from nature. Humans live on islands of luxury. They have their human bubbles like hulls / shells, caves, huts / cottages, houses, beyond that: castles, churches / cathedrals, cities, city states, states, nations, empires, global empires ... and so forth. Because they are much more spiritual / mental / intellectual than other creatures, they have not only a bodily but also a spiritual immune system. This spiritual immune system is the main cause of the enormous luxury and the characteristic feature of human culture/s. Because of the fact that there are many different spiritual immune systems of humans possible, one should rather speak about several human cultures and not about one human culture.

So culture is the same as nature?

No. Culture it is not the same as nature, but it is a part of nature. I said: "When it comes to distinguish the nature of human beings from the nature of other living beings, then human nature is human culture/s." That does not mean that nature and culture are the same. They are similar, not the same. There are analogies between them.

Naturally humans beings are animal beings, but culturally human beings are not animal beings but human beings (just becaue of their culture). Of course, there are feedbacks between nature and culture, thus also between human nature and human culture. But if it comes to distinguish the nature of human beings from the nature of other living beings, then human nature is human culture/s. And one of the main features of human culture/s is luxury.

project2501 wrote:Can you say more about humans being defined apart from animals because of luxury?

Yes. I can.
Last edited by Arminius on Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Human Nature

Postby James S Saint » Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:49 pm

Human means the "Hue-of-Man" wherein Man is the higher order of the species of homosapian. Animals do not have that higher order (national, world, and eugenics governments) that creates human cultures.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

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