Mind And Nature.

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Mind And Nature.

Postby LaughingMan » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:13 am

Is the human mind all that natural?

For instance we with our minds often enough project and desire countless unnatural things in our existence that fundamental basic forms of nature cannot provide.

Is there a cut off point or separate distinction between mind and nature?
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Re: Mind And Nature.

Postby Orbie » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:22 am

LaughingMan wrote:Is the human mind all that natural?

For instance we with our minds often enough project and desire countless unnatural things in our
existence that fundamental basic forms of nature cannot provide.




Is there a cut off point or separate distinction
between mind and nature?


If yOu have read any of my stuff, Laughing, You'd know of my position on this, there is an absolute yet tenuous. On the connection between mind and nature which is totally unbreakable. St the most extreme form of it, where as in the forum on machine overcoming man in a total fashion, I do not feel, or have ever felt to believe of a clear break.
The break could be a preception on a peripheral level, or even on a deep level, but in the essential program,if you want to call it that, it is hard wired that, natural processes cannot be absolutely alienated from consciousness, wherein consciousness can never become an exclusive artificial intelligence
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Re: Mind And Nature.

Postby xfzgrwql » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:06 pm

The mind represents idealism.
The body represents realism.

Nature is when man "adapts to" (changes himself in relation to) existence.
Artificiality is when existence adapts and changes according to the desires of men.

Idealism is mind over matter, or mind before matter, mind > matter.
Realism is matter over mind, or matter before mind, matter > mind.
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Re: Mind And Nature.

Postby LaughingMan » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:41 pm

xfzgrwql wrote:The mind represents idealism.
The body represents realism.

Nature is when man "adapts to" (changes himself in relation to) existence.
Artificiality is when existence adapts and changes according to the desires of men.

Idealism is mind over matter, or mind before matter, mind > matter.
Realism is matter over mind, or matter before mind, matter > mind.


The problems with these conversations of what is natural and unnatural is that we run into the naturalistic fallacy that states everything is natural where there is no unnatural.

I've always had qualms with this sort of thinking because it posits that humanity's goal or at the very least the top percent of the global population's desire to be demigods of the universe is also natural.

For me there has to be a separation between the human mind and nature that always seems to be incompatible often enough at odds with one another.
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Re: Mind And Nature.

Postby xfzgrwql » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:46 pm

If you assert that craving power is natural, then the human desire to become divine/godly, must also be natural.

Artificiality is the exception of nature, like advanced technology, nuclear physics, computerization, cloning, etc.
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Re: Mind And Nature.

Postby LaughingMan » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:49 pm

xfzgrwql wrote:If you assert that craving power is natural, then the human desire to become divine/godly, must also be natural.

Artificiality is the exception of nature, like advanced technology, nuclear physics, computerization, cloning, etc.


Yet what segments of the current desiring of power is built upon completely artificial apparatuses or systems?
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Re: Mind And Nature.

Postby LaughingMan » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:52 pm

All of civilization is built upon idealism, mind, and thoughts therefore it reasons all of civilization is created under completely artificial parameters.

It would seem civilization is contrary to simple natural biology and primordial instincts.
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Re: Mind And Nature.

Postby xfzgrwql » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:53 pm

If you consider civilization, or the socializing/domestication of men, artificial, then today's global world and statehood, is already an artificial environment.

Nature represents the "wild, untamed" aspect of the environment, which has already been culled by states and societies (cultures) around the world.

Culture is developed after a natural environment is 'tamed' and rendered docile. In the US, cultures are beginning to seed and sprout, representing the domestication (artificiality) of "western culture" and the "new world order". Post-colonialism.
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Re: Mind And Nature.

Postby LaughingMan » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:30 pm

xfzgrwql wrote:If you consider civilization, or the socializing/domestication of men, artificial, then today's global world and statehood, is already an artificial environment.

Nature represents the "wild, untamed" aspect of the environment, which has already been culled by states and societies (cultures) around the world.

Culture is developed after a natural environment is 'tamed' and rendered docile. In the US, cultures are beginning to seed and sprout, representing the domestication (artificiality) of "western culture" and the "new world order". Post-colonialism.



Yes, quite correct.

At the height of any given socially induced artificial environment there is indeed a lot of taking humanity's wild feral instinctual nature brought through the domestication process.

Domestication of course revolves completely around controlling populations through behavioral modifications.

Indeed, I would say we already live in an artificial environment and we have for some time now.

I think on a historical level the first gestation of this artificial environment began with the birth of religion where it has been evolving going through various transformations since then.
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Re: Mind And Nature.

Postby Innovice » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:14 pm

LaughingMan wrote:Is there a cut off point or separate distinction between mind and nature?


Perhaps its not as simple as a yes or no question. Maybe it makes more sense to ask "How can i view mind and nature as separate? How can i view them the same?"

Mind and nature as separate things, makes the most sense to me as physical entities, the brain and consciousness which rests on it as separate things from the environment.

Perhaps it makes sense to view them as the same from a physical sense. Maybe the mind is a result of nature.

Maybe your perception of nature is a product of the mind. Maybe the mind is a product of nature.

Maybe it makes sense to ask "What is not the mind?" or "What is not nature?"

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Re: Mind And Nature.

Postby uglypeoplefucking » Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:04 pm

Humans are animals, products of nature. By extension, so are their minds.
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Re: Mind And Nature.

Postby finishedman » Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:30 pm

In nature there is the form of life. That life as such has no beginning and no end; it is a beginningless and endless movement, and you are only an expression of it. You are only an expression of life, like a bird or a worm.


You are conscious of yourself through thought, not just conscious thought, but that conditioning which transforms the life that passes through you into feelings, into pleasure and pain. And this thought is not yours; it is what you have learned from others, it is second-hand, it belongs to everybody. You belong to everybody. So why don't you accept the natural thing? If you accept the natural thing, all falls into its own rhythm: there is nothing to do, there is nothing to control, there is nothing to ask. You don't have to do a thing. You are finished.
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Re: Mind And Nature.

Postby gib » Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:10 pm

I find the idea of the unnatural absurd, maybe even incoherent. Whatever exists is natural. You cannot divide up the universe into the natural and the unnatural.

The closest people come to pointing out authentic distinctions of this kind is to divide the world into the "usual" and the "unusual"--that which happens all the time in nature and that which is a very rare occurrence.

Why would you want your mind to be unnatural, LM?
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Re: Mind And Nature.

Postby Arminius » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:12 am

LaughingMan wrote:Is the human mind all that natural?

No.

LaughingMan wrote:Is there a cut off point or separate distinction between mind and nature?

Yes.
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Re: Mind And Nature.

Postby HisTHOUGH7 » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:05 am

The natural mind is at one with the instinct, self denial destroys it in a cultured fashion.
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Re: Mind And Nature.

Postby Kriswest » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:46 am

Our brains are perectly natural. Thumbs , use of tools, ability to adapt quickly and degree complex thought are the only separators from other animals. Time and use exercises the difference. Adapting is natural and adaption is the primary key to the human brain evolving. We are natural animals, ego wants it to be different though.
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Re: Mind And Nature.

Postby Lev Muishkin » Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:38 am

LaughingMan wrote:Is the human mind all that natural?

For instance we with our minds often enough project and desire countless unnatural things in our existence that fundamental basic forms of nature cannot provide.

Is there a cut off point or separate distinction between mind and nature?


Yo are confusing the thing with the content.

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Re: Mind And Nature.

Postby James S Saint » Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:55 am

The mind creates an artificial world of thought, often believed to be the "real natural world". The actual natural world is always a little different and almost always a great deal different. Through minds, artificial societies are formed with artificial behaviors expected. With societies comes the acceptance of noble lies, fairy tales, superstitions, and exaggerations. People expect other people to speak the lies even though no one expects for anyone to believe them other than the children and excessively naive. Through such artificial mental and social structures, Mankind blunders across the surface of nature, grinding, twisting, distorting, and burning all in his path for sake of the artificial world of the mind.
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