Can you imagine to be dead?

This is the main board for discussing philosophy - formal, informal and in between.

Can you imagine to be dead?

Yes.
10
45%
No.
10
45%
I do not know.
2
9%
 
Total votes : 22

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:20 am

Can I imagine being dead.

When I am on a ship on the high seas, looking at the vast dark deep blue ocean, the flying fish and the endless horizon, or I am in the bush, with only the sound of the bellbirds or kookaburras, the pure air, the hard red soil with its clumps of grasses, the clean running water in a river, its smooth grey stones and lush green plants, the sound of frogs, the very perfume of the air, it is then I realise I am alive, and if it were not possible to feel the heat of the sun, or smell the rain, this is how I imagine being dead is and I feel a sudden rush of overwhelming sadness.
The man that walks his own road, walks alone

Old Norse Proverb
User avatar
A Shieldmaiden
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2048
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:13 am

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby James S Saint » Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:05 am

The concept of "being dead" is an oxymoron. A being, in the human sense, refers to the life of the body. If the body is dead, there is no life, thus no "being".

A person cannot actually ever imagine "being dead", merely because to imagine would require being alive. One can imagine the universe existing without himself in it, but as he observes, he is imagining himself as alive and watching.

Having gone through that boring analysis, it is still useful at times to imagine that one is dead so as to convey to the inner mind the idea of extreme relaxation, similar to extreme meditation. During such an exercise, no urge to respond to anything is allowed. And that can be a bit dangerous as normal survival instincts can get shut off.
Last edited by James S Saint on Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:11 pm

Orbie wrote:I regret technical difficulties have caused the necessary repeats in correction.

Sweet, sweet Rumi - you sound like a robot now. :evilfun:
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 15689
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: A state of unknowing

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:35 pm

Orbie

Arc, I wish I had the source but I will find it to this widely circulated Soviet experiment, where these bunch of so called criminals, albeit political dissidents I believe-were offered a chance to freedom.


The only catch was,that, they had to involve in an experiment in the deprivation of communication on all levels. No talking, primarily, or interacting.

The experiment was of a length specified, and those who broke the rules,mound have to go back to prison.

The end result was horrific, the participants were in the end reluctant to leave their isolation, went crazy.
They started to viscerate themselves, eating their body parts, etc.

The point to all this, is, that for the test subjects, the state they were in, became the norm, and 'going outside' became equivocated with death. The death became a metaphor, since, their memories may not have disengaged from the real prison waiting for them-if they failed the test.


I would say that it had to be a great length of time to have come to that.
Like an animal caged up for so long that that's all it knows.
Could there have been drugs given to these human beings?
I can't imagine - started to viscerate themselves, eating their body parts, etc.
Aside from the so obvious abuse, they must have also been abused from the start in other ways, no?


The inside and outside worlds became reversed. The real sense of being contained in another restricted and controlled environment, from the one they were used to, and used to know, became an intangible state, bounded by a reversed line of demarcation. They literally imprisoned themselves in a labyrinth of suggested fear.


But on another level, wouldn't having to go back to the physical prison spell some kind of freedom to them, after the experience they had? Unless both "prisons" were equal.

The vampire is only too keen to understand this,since his world is twisted as well, he lives in the night, while others during the day. Darkness and death can not be his freedom, since he will burn with the rise of the sun.

He has accepted death, and so, he is bound by its rules. It is life he cannot enter, and hence, he is immortal. Well until, he is mortally wounded.


Well, all I was saying was that I also love the dark, the darkness...the absence of light. But both give me an appreciation of both.
But darkness can be the freedom of the vampire - that's his nature and his natural habitat. lol
It is the rising of the sun which becomes his death although vampires have evolved quite a bit lately. lol

I don't agree with you insofar as the vampire not being able to enter into life - as an immortal, perhaps he can do it more abundantly because he realizes he has sooooooooooooo far to go until. But you can look at it another way. We're all immortal in a sense until death comes to us - just as is the vampire - until his final death comes to him. Like everyone else, I suppose it depends on the individual how much the undead values life...just as it depends on he would does not have to live in darkness - how much he values life.
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 15689
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: A state of unknowing

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby Orbie » Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:21 pm

Arc,

As far as technical problems are concerned, I don't wish to specify, but if i were to specify to You, the nature of these difficulties, well, let it to suffice to say, without effecting an exaggeration, that they are at times quite challenging.

One of the technical issues consists in not being able to paraphrase. As a consequence of this, I will have to post two items, one regarding the prisoner experiment case, and the other, delving into the other part of Your inquiry.

The Soviet prisoners' incarceration were I believe mostly of the political transgression type, where any little alleged offense were politicized and aggrandize do to the effect of becoming violations against the state.

The test run by party affiliated doctors conformed to party line protocol, and there was no chance for these test subjects to avail themselves to the prerogative of these doctors to let some of them out, initially, when they still emitted cries and protestations.

There were no drugs administered before, during or after the experiment. The length of stay was not extremely long, maybe only a matter of weeks.

The thing that happened after a critical time elapsed, that they started to disconnect from awareness of their previous incarceration, so the lost connection with what that entailed.

The profundity of questions of why, have never been resolved. I will try to dig up this experiment, and again, I can not attach it for same said 'technical difficulties'
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
Orbie
partly cloudy, with a few showers
 
Posts: 7596
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:34 pm
Location: Night of infinite faith

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby Orbie » Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:48 pm

This vampire metaphors of connecting his life habits of preference for darkness, was only meant to illustrate , and I apologise of forgetting to include this in the original, philosophical narrative, of Plato's Cave.

As such the metaphor could be drawn to cover the ancient absence of light, with the modern distrust of it.

Let me clarify, Arc. Light can be used again meta-phorically for a number of things, and here I would prefer to focus on light before The Enlightenment.
Science, as many benefits it has come to garner, is deistrusted by many, as having, or about to disconnect from it's host, the natural environment.
Like a premature rush to get out from it's parents, the child Science, wants a clean break away from those who gave it existence.

Your comment, that I am becoming robot like in my distrust of the technical aspects of communication, are a good example of this idea.

For instance, many educated people are getting the idea, that in the event of a world wide calamity, the under ground will again be sought out as the safest place, away from the infectious and poisonous quality of the above ground. In this sense, the darkness invites three real insecurity that the light can manifest, in such times.

Let me give You a personal anecdote that illustrates this concept. I am at variance with myself about the publishing of it, but here it goes.

After so many years, I still have flashbacks of it, due to the ingestion of a super sized amount of lysergic acid. This was decades ago, but the quantity was enormous. I ended up in a police department's holding cell, and at one point, again. I died, which was recounted by some attendees.

I was taken back to the cell, after which I was in and out of consciousness, probably experiencing a life and death battle. There was a light just outside the locked door, and I remember asking the attendee, to turn it off. He said something strange, to the effect, that, most people on drugs want them on.

Looking back, this for me could have meant only one thing, in p(reference) to darkness, that if if dying, it would be more comfortable to do it in darkness.

Darkness could have symbolized that, from which going to death, would be less of a contrast. But I am sure there were other symbolic intros psychic communication going on.

Surviving the ordeal the development of extreme photo sensitivity may be an expected extension of that experience.


As always, Orbie
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
Orbie
partly cloudy, with a few showers
 
Posts: 7596
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:34 pm
Location: Night of infinite faith

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:21 pm

What will it be like to go to sleep and never wake up…..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Opn5iVaRyDU
The man that walks his own road, walks alone

Old Norse Proverb
User avatar
A Shieldmaiden
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2048
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:13 am

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby Kriswest » Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:04 pm

Could have done it without the overload music. And what the hell is a political adept??
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
User avatar
Kriswest
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 20554
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:26 pm
Location: stuck in permanent maternal mode.

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby Arminius » Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:37 pm

James S Saint wrote:The concept of "being dead" is an oxymoron. A being, in the human sense, refers to the life of the body. If the body is dead, there is no life, thus no "being".

Being is being. You mean that there is no living being then. Okay. But there is being. Being is being. Thus being does not necessarily mean living being.
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby James S Saint » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:46 pm

Arminius wrote:
James S Saint wrote:The concept of "being dead" is an oxymoron. A being, in the human sense, refers to the life of the body. If the body is dead, there is no life, thus no "being".

Being is being. You mean that there is no living being then. Okay. But there is being. Being is being. Thus being does not necessarily mean living being.

Are "YOU" a dead body? Or are "YOU" a living consciousness?

A living consciousness cannot be dead. Which one is "YOU"?

When "YOU" is not "YOU" any more, "YOU" are not "being", but rather simply do not exist (although perhaps left behind the body that "YOU" used to inhabit).
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:00 pm

If the soul physically leaves the body after death, perhaps the process of rebirth can be determined by the first person to walk into the corpse's room.
A Shieldmaiden wrote:What will it be like to go to sleep and never wake up…..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Opn5iVaRyDU


I think Mr. Watts lives in a bubble, unaware of the concepts of pain, hell, investment, recurrence, or rebirth.

If we all had Mr. Alans attitude, I doubt there would be many great achievements...scientists, in the middle of building machines to better the quality of life, would say, "Doesn't matter if I die, making scientific progress and improving the quality of life is not important. I'm okay with drinking mud water being chased by hyenas if and when I'm reborn into this world. The idea of making the world better before I left it doesn't really matter, helping future generations doesnt really matter, death doesnt really matter, s'all good." There would be no reason for philosophy and researching the afterlife, because hell and recurrence into bad worlds are thought of as neutral outcomes, that don't really matter. Sort of like extreme frothing lunatic Nihilism.
trogdor
User avatar
Ultimate Philosophy 1001
BANNED
 
Posts: 8311
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:57 pm

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby Arminius » Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:44 pm

Do you think that a consciousness can never be dead?
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby Kriswest » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:44 pm

It can imagine dead, feel death.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
User avatar
Kriswest
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 20554
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:26 pm
Location: stuck in permanent maternal mode.

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby Arminius » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:58 pm

Kriswest wrote:It can imagine dead, feel death.

You said that you "have been near death many times".
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby Kriswest » Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:50 am

Yep.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
User avatar
Kriswest
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 20554
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:26 pm
Location: stuck in permanent maternal mode.

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:11 pm

I have imagined what it's like to be dead on several occassions, simply timeless consciousness staring at the sun, no needs no worries, only a pleasant pain.

However, my theory is that we are linked in the higher plane which is the sim realm, then above that the sou realm where we are all one.

The sim realm we have a higher genius ego that is all knowing, and are not limited to avatars but still there is a seperation, we are not our friends they are in seperate timelines. However, we do share the lives of several people in Earth realms, but not our friends they have seperate egos.

Higher than the sim realm is the soul realm where we are all one, however this takes a while for the recursision since there is a seperation of timelines between our friends and us, sometimes even millena goes past until we live each other's lives. You have the option to not participate however there has become viruses in the programming causing Earth realms to degrade from original coding.

We, passengers, marvelled at the beauty of the coding enabling us to feel the illusion of free will and fell in love with our own ignorance, for the burden of knowledge left nothing to ego delusion, nor could we enjoy animal pursuits. However a virus in earth realms has prevented the fulfillment of coding.

I have absolutely no evidence of my theories and it is all blind faith based.

Some other philosophers say they know what happens when you die, but they appear to be dishonest and too rude to share their theories with the world.
trogdor
User avatar
Ultimate Philosophy 1001
BANNED
 
Posts: 8311
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:57 pm

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:37 pm

Arminius wrote:Do you think that a consciousness can never be dead?


You might want to define what YOU mean by consciousness here.

Doesn't the word itself presuppose an awareness of some sort? having the capacity to experience, to think, to observe?
That requires a living organism. It also requires a "living" consciousness.



If you're speaking of immortality, of a person who has died, if you believe in a soul, then perhaps it's possible that one's consciousness, IF housed ina soul, lives on somehow, somewhere.
Either way, Arminius, I don't see how a "consciousness" can be dead - ever.
The very word consciousness stands for awareness.

Con - with
scious - knowledge

Of course, books have knowledge but we speaking of "living" "breathing" knowledge.
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 15689
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: A state of unknowing

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby Along The Way » Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:37 pm

I can imagine what it's like to temporarily be dead as I have been killed in dreams countless times in my life, starting from when I was a child.

When I actually die in my dreams (not wake up before I die, but actually die) the feeling is always the same. I get past the initial fear by ultimately accepting my fate, and I peacefully go deeper and deeper into a state of deep sleep/deep peace, and then I wake up.

I imagine the death of my body will be something similar, albeit more intense, more lucid, etc. because it will happen in both the material and subtle body, and not just the subtle body. That includes the waking up part, although I'd imagine that in what we call "actual" death, once I "wake up" I will have no recollection of what happened before, since I have no recollection of before birth.

And if someone asks "why put so much stock in what your dreams have informed you of?", well, the answer is pretty simple if not infallible. I have experienced moments of deep romantic bliss in dreams when I kissed girls that I had deep crushes on. In fact, for many, many, many years the most euphoric moments of my life had happened in dreams when I had experienced that great, romantic, euphoric feeling of kissing a girl I had fallen in love with. 20 or so years later after the first time I experienced such a sensation in my dream, I finally kissed a girl I had fallen in love with and the sensation was identical, albeit amplified. Therefore, dreams have truly informed me of knowledge a priori.

Not that I am 100% certain, of course, that death will be relatively similar to how it has happened to me in dreams, but I'm pretty damn sure. The consistency of being killed/feeling fear, accepting the fate of death, and falling into a deep sleep/deep peace, and then waking up, has been entirely consistent many times throughout my life, with no deviation to speak of.
Along The Way
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:46 pm

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby ended6 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:43 pm

Yeah, a bright white light appears and you just get lifted, then transported to the inter-space, then temporarily held there. Death is just a process that takes place when the body dies..no big deal
ended6
Thinker
 
Posts: 940
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:47 am

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby Along The Way » Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:57 pm

James S Saint wrote:The concept of "being dead" is an oxymoron. A being, in the human sense, refers to the life of the body. If the body is dead, there is no life, thus no "being".

A person cannot actually ever imagine "being dead", merely because to imagine would require being alive. One can imagine the universe existing without himself in it, but as he observes, he is imagining himself as alive and watching.

Having gone through that boring analysis, it is still useful at times to imagine that one is dead so as to convey to the inner mind the idea of extreme relaxation, similar to extreme meditation. During such an exercise, no urge to respond to anything is allowed. And that can be a bit dangerous as normal survival instincts can get shut off.


I get where you are coming from and empathize with what you are trying to communicate, but I will have to challenge you on the notion that when people think of death, that they think of the body. It seems to me many people think of death as the end of everything, an eternity of "non-being" which to me is utter nonsense. One can imagine, like you said, the "I" no longer being part of the equation, even though it is still the "I" that is imagine it.

But when people ask "can you imagine being dead" I presume (wrongly?) they mean the "experience" of "nothingness" (again, I believe the "experience of nothingness" is bullshit, since nothing is not an experience, and therefore the whole concept of "nothing" to me, is utter nonsense).

One can only imagine decreased forms of life and call it "death". Even when I describe what happens in my dreams when I "die", as in, when I am dying and going into a deep sleep/deep peace, there is still an element of consciousness, some very depleted form of sense perception, and once it goes to near zero I wake up (out of necessity).

Question: Do you think/believe that after death there is "nothing" or do you, like me, find the concept of "nothing" to be nonsensical?
Along The Way
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:46 pm

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby Arminius » Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:11 pm

A sleep has an end. And the death? Is it endless? And if it is endless: How do you think or imagine an endless death?
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby Along The Way » Fri Mar 11, 2016 7:01 pm

Arminius wrote:A sleep has an end. And the death? Is it endless? And if it is endless: How do you think or imagine an endless death?


One can't imagine an endless death because it doesn't exist/is utterly non-sensical.

Nature/existence is embedded in certain patterns. Such as day and night, winter and summer, death and birth, sleeping and waking, pleasure and pain, front and back, and on and on and on and on.

Everything that has a beginning has an end. So while death is the end of life, life is also the end of death.

While I obviously can't prove to anyone, convince anyone, that this is the case, to me, this is about as factual as anything. Eternal non-existence is the single most incomprehensible concept I can think of, even more so than the Abrahamic God. To believe in something that the human mind can utterly not comprehend takes an enormous leap of faith, and thus I find it ironic that so many so called empiricists believe that when they die "they" will be dead "forever" as if there is still a "they" that "can" "be" "dead". In other words, one cannot "be" dead. One is or one isn't. And you and I ARE.
Along The Way
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:46 pm

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby Arminius » Fri Mar 11, 2016 7:13 pm

Along The Way wrote:
Arminius wrote:A sleep has an end. And the death? Is it endless? And if it is endless: How do you think or imagine an endless death?


One can't imagine an endless death because it doesn't exist/is utterly non-sensical.

Nature/existence is embedded in certain patterns. Such as day and night, winter and summer, death and birth, sleeping and waking, pleasure and pain, front and back, and on and on and on and on.

Everything that has a beginning has an end. So while death is the end of life, life is also the end of death.

While I obviously can't prove to anyone, convince anyone, that this is the case, to me, this is about as factual as anything. Eternal non-existence is the single most incomprehensible concept I can think of, even more so than the Abrahamic God. To believe in something that the human mind can utterly not comprehend takes an enormous leap of faith, and thus I find it ironic that so many so called empiricists believe that when they die "they" will be dead "forever" as if there is still a "they" that "can" "be" "dead". In other words, one cannot "be" dead. One is or one isn't. And you and I ARE.

Wait ..., "be" is not possible, but "is" and "are" are possible? You know that "is" and "are" are the inflected forms of the same Infinitive: "be".
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:43 pm

Arminius wrote:A sleep has an end. And the death? Is it endless? And if it is endless: How do you think or imagine an endless death?


I think it can only be imagined in terms of the human experience and memory.
An endless death to me - since time is relative - would be when one's child is so very sick or in trouble that the parent feels that he/she has died almost, where there is almost no hope. Perhaps not a very good analogy.

Can we actually think in terms of death being endless though? If there is no immortality, then dead is just dead. There is no beginning or end to it. There is a beginning to dying but not to death itself. If there is immortality, then it is not that there is an end to death -- death is in itself a cessation of life -- but that there is a beginning of new life.
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 15689
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: A state of unknowing

Re: Can you imagine to be dead?

Postby Mr Reasonable » Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:35 pm

One time, a long time ago, I got ran over by this truck while I was riding a motorcycle and I was pretty badly injured and I went about 90 feet down the road just sliding and rolling and what have you. So I was bleeding from all over the place and I was laying there in the street and I just thought for a second, "am I dead?". Then I was like, "I don't really know, I mean...how could I tell, I have no basis for comparison because I have never been dead and so I really can't know what it's like so I can't be sure if I'm dead right now." Then I started to think, "maybe my back or neck is broken, what if I try and move but I paralyze myself?". Then I started thinking, "what if I don't move and someone comes down this street at night right now and doesn't see me and runs over my legs?". So I took some slow deep breaths to see if I felt any ridiculous sharp pains that might indicate my back was broken, and I didn't feel those pains so I slowly, delicately tried to sit up straight. Then all the endorphins kicked in and I thought that I'd just get up and walk around and call myself an ambulance, because this crazy lady who hit me was trying to leave the scene and I would have probably bled to death out there if she'd gotten away. So I walked around for a few minutes and some good samaritan types blocked her in so she couldn't leave, which was lucky for me because I'd lost so much blood at this point that I started to have all these convulsions and go into shock and I ended up collapsing back onto the ground unable to get back up. Then these guys came and cut all my clothes off, and strapped me to a board, so now I"m naked, strapped to a board, and convulsing on the side of the road just waiting for an ambulance, (the 1st responders were some local volunteer guys who did not have an ambulance). So then the ambulance gets there, and they toss me into the back of it, and the last thing I remember is this lady in there looked at me and said, "are you in any pain?", and I said, "yes. are you fucking kidding me? you'd better not let me die you fucking bitch.". The I really don't know what happened but they shocked me with those shocker things that they use when people have heart attacks and I woke up in a hospital being held up in front of an xray machine by these 2 huge dudes and dripping blood all over the floor which formed a nice puddle underneath me there.

All that being said, I don't think someone can imagine what it's like to be dead. You can imagine what it's like to be close to dead, but imagining you're actually dead, at least from your own point of view just seems like something a person can't do. Maybe you can imagine something like, "if I were dead my mom would be sad or those mean bullies would learn their lesson" or something like that, but imagining, "if I were dead here's where I'd be and this is what I'd see" just doesn't make sense.
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.


Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.
User avatar
Mr Reasonable
resident contrarian
 
Posts: 29527
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:54 am
Location: pimping a hole straight through the stratosphere itself

PreviousNext

Return to Philosophy



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot]