Where does evil come from?

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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby Kriswest » Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:09 am

Human acts of bad or evil have not increased. Actions are just broadcasted more. Something horrible occuring in a little town would not have made national news fifty years ago unless a well known person was involved.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby phyllo » Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:51 pm

These days human acts are getting more and more terrible, atrocious, etc. such that the term 'bad' is insufficient to convey the essence of those acts to motivate the relevant preventive strategies. The term 'bad' these days invoked a sense that such a 'bad' act is like child play and deserved merely a spank.
That's the perception that people now have because of the influence of mass media. The media makes money by reporting extreme behavior and extreme events. 'Bad' won't make the 6 o'clock news.
The term 'evil' give a stronger bite and grip on the problem.
It distorts by putting behaviors which are on a spectrum, into two extremes categories. Now things, which were classified as only bad in the past, are called evil and people react to them as though they are truly evil. One sees this in social media when someone makes a small mistake and it brings forth an extreme reaction - often proposing death as a suitable punishment.
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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby phyllo » Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:52 pm

Kriswest wrote:Human acts of bad or evil have not increased. Actions are just broadcasted more. Something horrible occuring in a little town would not have made national news fifty years ago unless a well known person was involved.
Exactly
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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby Arminius » Sat Sep 03, 2016 1:02 am

Kriswest wrote:Human acts of bad or evil have not increased. Actions are just broadcasted more. Something horrible occuring in a little town would not have made national news fifty years ago unless a well known person was involved.

In big cities it is just the other way around. Criminal activities are more and more kept secret by media, politics, police, ... and so on (at last also by most people). More and more people live in bigger and bigger becoming cities. Since 2008 more than 50% of all humans have been living in cities (for comparison only: in 1950 that percentage was 30%; and in 2030 it will estimately be 60%). So, unfortunately, one has to state that human acts of bad or evil have increased. The reason is a simple one, bioecologically and anthropologically said: Humans are not made for cities, for living in such a settlement density, population density; humans are made for a life in a relatively small group.

An example: The city Shenzhen in China had 30000 inhabitants in 1979 but 10.5 million inhabitants in 2011.

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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby Kriswest » Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:32 am

I can agree with all that but still in a normal human way of living , it has not changed. Cities like that are abnormal... Oh there are just a few smartass things running through my head about people and cities,, I better not...
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby Arminius » Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:12 pm

Kriswest wrote:I can agree with all that but still in a normal human way of living , it has not changed. Cities like that are abnormal... Oh there are just a few smartass things running through my head about people and cities,, I better not...

Cities like that are abnormal, but they exist. They are architectural facts of human history.

As I said: Humans are not made for big cities or cities at all but for thorps, villages; because they are living beings of relatively small groups (like packs, prides, flocks, herds).
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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby Kriswest » Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:33 pm

Humans are made for adapting... Though we can reallllllllly fight it. As humans adapt to large communities self preservation kicked in, you ceased to see faces and identifiers. Ever live in a huge city? I spent most of my life in large cities. You really just float through life not thinking about the humanity surrounding you, they in essence become objects. Yet I see change /adaptation beginning . The most notorious community,Harlem, is changing becoming more humane.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby Arminius » Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:00 am

Kriswest wrote:Humans are made for adapting...

Humans are are capable of both adaptation and non-adaptation. Humans can dissociate from nature, can fight against nature. The more culture/civilization humans have, the more anti-natural they are.

Kriswest wrote:Though we can reallllllllly fight it. As humans adapt to large communities self preservation kicked in, you ceased to see faces and identifiers. Ever live in a huge city? I spent most of my life in large cities. You really just float through life not thinking about the humanity surrounding you, they in essence become objects. Yet I see change /adaptation beginning . The most notorious community,Harlem, is changing becoming more humane.

In the same time, more and more other notorious communites are becoming more and more inhumane.

Nobody knows, when and how this is going to stop.
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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Sep 10, 2016 3:25 pm

Kriswest wrote:Human acts of bad or evil have not increased. Actions are just broadcasted more. Something horrible occuring in a little town would not have made national news fifty years ago unless a well known person was involved.


Hi Krissy. I don't know about that. I think we have seen and can say that ~~ let's say in the case of technology itself or the way in which humans have used and abused it, because we are such mental and emotional pigmies where it is concerned, has most definitely contributed to unethical and immoral acts. I speak both subjectively and objectively. Can one do both? :-k
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


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“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby surreptitious57 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:06 pm

The further back in time one goes the more barbaric human civilisation was. The present [ any present ] is therefore the least barbaric time one can live in since
by definition it is an improvement on all previous times. Though it could change if something detrimental to human existence occurred on a global scale. Such as
for example a nuclear war or universal epidemic or ice age. However barring such apocalyptic scenarios modern life is on average significantly more comfortable
than compared with previous eras. For more on this read Steven Pinker
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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:14 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:The further back in time one goes the more barbaric human civilisation was. The present [ any present ] is therefore the least barbaric time one can live in since
by definition it is an improvement on all previous times. Though it could change if something detrimental to human existence occurred on a global scale. Such as
for example a nuclear war or universal epidemic or ice age. However barring such apocalyptic scenarios modern life is on average significantly more comfortable
than compared with previous eras. For more on this read Steven Pinker



https://www.google.com/search?q=the+bom ... M7yynRM%3A
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby surreptitious57 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:39 pm

That was not on a global scale and was justified as being the lesser of two evils but there will always be atrocities regardless of anything else so it has
to be factored into the equation. But as I said modern life is on average significantly more comfortable. Also in the interests of objectively one should
reference in all the ways in which knowledge has been used for positive benefit also. Such as for example in medicine to name but one. You are never
going to have Utopia for that is simply not possible. But you can have a world which on balance is less imperfect than all of the ones that came before
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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby Kriswest » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:16 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
Kriswest wrote:Human acts of bad or evil have not increased. Actions are just broadcasted more. Something horrible occuring in a little town would not have made national news fifty years ago unless a well known person was involved.


Hi Krissy. I don't know about that. I think we have seen and can say that ~~ let's say in the case of technology itself or the way in which humans have used and abused it, because we are such mental and emotional pigmies where it is concerned, has most definitely contributed to unethical and immoral acts. I speak both subjectively and objectively. Can one do both? :-k

Have you heard about the Mississippi police chiefs? Local news here. Pretty damn dramatic. Pretty damn criminal.
And yea one can do both :)
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby Arminius » Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:19 am

surreptitious57 wrote:The further back in time one goes the more barbaric human civilisation was. The present [ any present ] is therefore the least barbaric time one can live in since
by definition it is an improvement on all previous times. Though it could change if something detrimental to human existence occurred on a global scale. Such as
for example a nuclear war or universal epidemic or ice age. However barring such apocalyptic scenarios modern life is on average significantly more comfortable
than compared with previous eras. For more on this read Steven Pinker

First of all I have to say that the two different semantic fields for the two English words "culture" and "civilisation" are different from the two German words "Kultur" and "Zivilisation, so that we we would get a problem of contrastive linguistics, if we equalled them. So (1.) the English word "culture" and the German word "Kultur" do not always mean the same, and (2.) the English word "civilisation" and the German word "Zivilisation" do not always mean the same. I would say that the said semantic fields could look like this:

Kultur_Culture_Zivilisation_Civilisation.gif
Kultur_Culture_Zivilisation_Civilisation.gif (2.38 KiB) Viewed 1070 times

So the proper translation of "Kultur" is sometimes "culture and sometimes "civilisation", whereas the proper translation of "Zivilisation" is always "civilisation".

And this means that I have to conclude or even to guess whether you meant "Kultur" or "Zivilisation" when you used the word "civilisation". Most historians say that barbarians have no "civilisation" ("Zivilisation"). So I conclude that you meant "Kultur" and not "Zivilisation". Most historians say that civilisations (Kulturen) can be both barbaric and not barbaric, and that civilisations (Zivilisationen) can never be barbaric. But my interpretation differs a bit from that mainstream interpretation. I am saying that civilisations (Zivilisationen) are also barbaric, and they can be and often are even much more barbaric than the so-called "barbaric civilisations" ("Kulturen").
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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby Prismatic567 » Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:14 am

Kriswest wrote:Human acts of bad or evil have not increased. Actions are just broadcasted more. Something horrible occuring in a little town would not have made national news fifty years ago unless a well known person was involved.

phyllo wrote:
These days human acts are getting more and more terrible, atrocious, etc. such that the term 'bad' is insufficient to convey the essence of those acts to motivate the relevant preventive strategies. The term 'bad' these days invoked a sense that such a 'bad' act is like child play and deserved merely a spank.
That's the perception that people now have because of the influence of mass media. The media makes money by reporting extreme behavior and extreme events. 'Bad' won't make the 6 o'clock news.
To facilitate survival, it is a very natural instinct of humans to focus on the negative [bad to evil] News. So what the mass media are merely expressing these days are what is instinctual and I believe that is very necessary.

Discounting the ideological and propaganda elements [an onus on the people to filter this] the mass media are reporting what is going on in reality around the world at present in comparison to what we merely read in the Newspapers and hearsay in the past.
Thus at present humanity has greater access to the truths [discounting propaganda] of negative [range of bad to evil] which should be welcomed.

With the knowledge of these truths of the existence of these negative acts around the world, humanity has the responsibility to prevent, reduce, eliminate [if possible] these negative acts. To achieve this there is a need for effective strategies.

For an effective strategy one approach is to use the effective concepts and terms to capture the significance of the full range of these negative acts that are a threat to the well-being of humanity.

This is why I proposed and I believed to use the term "evil" together with a proper definition and explanation to cover all acts and scenarios that are negative to the well-being of humanity. Using such a broad, loose and varied term such as 'evil' will definitely have problems involving communications and likely misinterpretation, that is why the term must be clearly spelled out covering all scenario on how it is to be used.

The term 'evil' give a stronger bite and grip on the problem.

It distorts by putting behaviors which are on a spectrum, into two extremes categories. Now things, which were classified as only bad in the past, are called evil and people react to them as though they are truly evil. One sees this in social media when someone makes a small mistake and it brings forth an extreme reaction - often proposing death as a suitable punishment.
That is why I stated the definition of the term [evil] must be very clear and explanation given to cover all possible scenarios.

That is a lot of things that can be done to prevent any possible misinterpretations.
For example preparing a taxonomy of 'what is evil' with explanations for every level will definitely present a clearer picture towards the defined purpose of why the term is defined in the intended manner.

The point is when we put a philosophical, scientific, other faculty of knowledge approaches to our project, then it has a potential of eliminating weaknesses and promoting continuous improvements. This is in contrast to the theological blind faith approach.

Now I wonder what is the intent of your resistance and dissension to my proposals. You wanna keep to the status quo and not look for possible effective strategies to deal with the truths of those range of evil acts?
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby James S Saint » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:27 am

The more it is merely instinct, the more it is merely animal.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby surreptitious57 » Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:14 am

Arminius : I used civilisation to mean society in general which would mean all cultures. And I disagree with historians who say that civilisations cannot be
barbaric because in many cases that is how they came into being. These civilisations would specifically be the great empires of antiquity. And they could
not be maintained exclusively by non barbaric means either. But while civilisations might be barbaric the opposite is not so true for barbarians cannot be
civilised. Because barbarian translates as thug. And a thug is not some one who is either civilised or cultured. And it is also what philistine means as well
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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby Artimas » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:16 am

Comes from the mind along with negative aspects of life, influences.

Even nothing, is something.
If one is to live balanced with expectations, then one must learn to appreciate the negative as well, to respect darkness in its own home.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby James S Saint » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:31 am

Common English:
civ·il
ˈsiv(ə)l/
adjective
adjective: civil

    1. of or relating to ordinary citizens and their concerns, as distinct from military or ecclesiastical matters.
    "civil aviation"
    synonyms: secular, nonreligious, lay; More
    formallaic
    "a civil marriage"
    nonmilitary, civilian
    "civil aviation"
    antonyms: religious, military
    (of disorder or conflict) occurring between citizens of the same country.
    synonyms: internal, domestic, interior, national
    "a civil war"
    antonyms: international, foreign
    Law
    relating to private relations between members of a community; noncriminal.
    "a civil action"
    Law
    of or relating to civil law.

    2. courteous and polite.
    "we tried to be civil to him"
    synonyms: polite, courteous, well mannered, well bred, chivalrous, gallant; cordial, genial, pleasant, affable;
    gentlemanly, ladylike
civ·i·li·za·tion
ˌsivələˈzāSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: civilisation
    the stage of human social development and organization that is considered most advanced.
    "they equated the railroad with progress and civilization"
    synonyms: human development, advancement, progress, enlightenment, culture, refinement, sophistication
    "a higher stage of civilization"
cul·ture
ˈkəlCHər/
noun
noun: culture
    1. the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.
    "20th century popular culture"
    synonyms: the arts, the humanities, intellectual achievement; literature, music, painting, philosophy, the performing arts
bar·bar·ic
bärˈberik/
adjective
adjective: barbaric
1. savagely cruel; exceedingly brutal.
"he had carried out barbaric acts in the name of war"
synonyms: brutal, barbarous, brutish, bestial, savage, vicious, wicked, cruel, ruthless, merciless, villainous, murderous, heinous, monstrous, vile, inhuman, infernal, dark, fiendish, diabolical
"barbaric crimes"
antonyms: civilized
2. primitive; unsophisticated.
"the barbaric splendor he found in civilizations since destroyed"
synonyms: brutal, barbarous, brutish, bestial, savage, vicious, wicked, cruel, ruthless, merciless, villainous, murderous, heinous, monstrous, vile, inhuman, infernal, dark, fiendish, diabolical

Thus it could be said that modern "civilisation" is being run by barbarians, thus is not really civilisation at all, but rather what was once a civilisation has become merely a barbaric culture ("High tech third world country"). 8)
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby Mictlantecuhtli » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:26 pm

Carefully scripted social fictions and mythologies.....
Civilization is a ship of fools headed to a one way destination of catastrophe and annihilation, its many captains populated by asshole-idiots that all agree it is unsinkable.

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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby Arminius » Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:22 pm

The term "barbarian" originates from the Ancient Greek: βάρβαρος (barbaros). By this term the Ancient Greeks meant each one of those who were not Ancient Greeks resp. did not speak Ancient Greek.
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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby Arminius » Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:29 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:Arminius : I used civilisation to mean society in general which would mean all cultures. And I disagree with historians who say that civilisations cannot be
barbaric because in many cases that is how they came into being. These civilisations would specifically be the great empires of antiquity. And they could
not be maintained exclusively by non barbaric means either. But while civilisations might be barbaric the opposite is not so true for barbarians cannot be
civilised. Because barbarian translates as thug. And a thug is not some one who is either civilised or cultured. And it is also what philistine means as well

Whom do you mean? I mean: Who translates "barbarian" as "thug"?
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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby Mictlantecuhtli » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:51 pm

Arminius wrote:The term "barbarian" originates from the Ancient Greek: βάρβαρος (barbaros). By this term the Ancient Greeks meant each one of those who were not Ancient Greeks resp. did not speak Ancient Greek.


Yes, carefully scripted fictions of civility.
Civilization is a ship of fools headed to a one way destination of catastrophe and annihilation, its many captains populated by asshole-idiots that all agree it is unsinkable.

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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby surreptitious57 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:13 pm

From Wikipedia : a barbarian is a human who is perceived to be uncivilized or primitive .....
A barbarian may also be an individual reference to a brutal cruel warlike insensitive person
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Re: Where does evil come from?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:59 pm

Tab,

I don't think you can choose to do evil.


What's evil? Evil spelled backwards is live. So what is evil but anything which takes away the optimum good of one's own life or that of another, which causes harm or great harm. I intuit that there ARE degrees to that which is evil.

At the moment of choice, all chosen actions are subjectively good, even if only to the chooser.

That is not necessarily true. We oftentimes choose to make choices deliberately where we know that someone will be harmed or hurt. That is deliberate. We are quite conscious that those actions are not subjectively good but we don't care. There is also no good or greater cause behind the actions.
That's call callousness/indifference and evil can come from that...a deliberately conscious choice to cause harm.

Good in the world has its opposite, as does everything. Just as good can also come from evil and evil can come from good.
Evil can also come from NOT PAYING ATTENTION.
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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