## God and Motion

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### Re: God and Motion

James, Ecmandu,

Both referential and inferential logic beg the Uncaused Cause, which is the most essential element in this argument. So there is no argument.
Meno_
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### Re: God and Motion

jerkey wrote:James, Ecmandu,

Both referential and inferential logic beg the Uncaused Cause, which is the most essential element in this argument. So there is no argument.

The uncaused cause is precisely what James is arguing, even though he hasn't used that term.

I'm pointing out that caused cause is the logical function of existents...

So where do we go from there?
Ecmandu
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### Re: God and Motion

Ecmandu wrote:
jerkey wrote:James, Ecmandu,

Both referential and inferential logic beg the Uncaused Cause, which is the most essential element in this argument. So there is no argument.

The uncaused cause is precisely what James is arguing, even though he hasn't used that term.

I'm pointing out that caused cause is the logical function of existents...

So where do we go from there?

Let's take cause and acause out of the equation and use the more neutral term "change"

Is it unchanged change or changed change...

Well obviously change changing means no change at all...

So it's unchanged change...

Saying unchanged change is just a clever way of stating that change has always been and always will be
Ecmandu
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### Re: God and Motion

Ecmandu wrote:If all existents are caused, then causation was also caused...

No. Causation, as I said, can have existed eternally (and necessarily has).

The "Uncaused Cause", "Prime Mover", "God", is defined as an eternal entity. The confusion is that many people believe that it all had to begin. It didn't ever begin, because it was never without.

Ecmandu wrote:Let's take cause and acause out of the equation and use the more neutral term "change"

No, "change" is not a synonym for "cause". "Caused" refers to a change that was instigated by something. "Change doesn't require that.

jerkey wrote:Both referential and inferential logic beg the Uncaused Cause, which is the most essential element in this argument. So there is no argument.

No. When "uncaused" merely means "has always existed", there is no begging the question involved.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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### Re: God and Motion

Where in what reality did I not state...

Let's use the value neutral term change to analyze this ??

And yet somehow James, you got out if that, that I was using them as synonyms ..
Ecmandu
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### Re: God and Motion

James S Saint wrote:The "Prime Mover" is the primary cause of all motion and is eternal. Something cannot be a cause of something else without that something else appearing, else it really isn't the cause. Because the primary cause of all motion is eternal, motion itself must also be eternal.

The Prime Mover did not begin the universe, but rather is at the very foundation of any and all motion (aka "spirit"). The physical universe is made entirely of the changing, the motion itself, physical spirit. And such motion continues eternally because the Prime Mover for it is eternal (yet not itself physical).

So at first there was the Prime Mover (spiritual) and the universe (physical) and thus two universal realms: (1) the spiritual realm as the foundation of any and all motion (changing); (2) the physical realm containing the motion itself (physical spirit).

Arminius
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### Re: God and Motion

Arminius, yes.

But the physical spirit is the most essential of all spirits, next to the Uncaused Cause. The physical Spirit is the highest Archangel, who unfortunately fell, because he got too close to IT.
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