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Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:41 am
by Ecmandu
JohnJBannan wrote:A triangle is an idea. Where do ideas reside? In minds.


Oh, so you’re a solipsist now?

You can’t perceive that which doesn’t already exist.

Like I stated before... a triangle is greater than god.

God did not invent platonic forms, god relies upon them (otherness) to perceive its existence in the first place.

All eternal forms are not sentient, and they are greater than any possible sentient being !!

Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:44 am
by JohnJBannan
The idea of a triangle resides in my mind. That’s why I can perceive it. That’s not solipsism.

Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:49 am
by Ecmandu
JohnJBannan wrote:The idea of a triangle resides in my mind. That’s why I can perceive it. That’s not solipsism.


That’s exactly what solipsism is! It has no reality outside your observation/perception.

I already gave you this disproof of omniscience:

If everything comes from you, then there is no “outside”, “otherness” with which to distinguish yourself from... which means that YOU cannot exist.

Oh my John, what a difference a half decade can make!

I’m not even remotely close to the same person you debated back then!

Let’s keep it going!

Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:00 am
by MagsJ
Sock-puppet much?

Sad times, mad times, but not glad times, but yawn times, because you could do better in Class times.. but you didn’t. Uh oh!

Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:03 am
by JohnJBannan
Solipsism is the belief that the self is all that can be known to exist. It is not the belief that ideas exist only in a mind.

Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:04 am
by Ecmandu
MagsJ wrote:Sock-puppet much?

Sad times, mad times, but not glad times, but yawn times, because you could do better in Class times.. but you didn’t. Uh oh!


Ahh... the self-unobservant troll formulating words in some random combination.

You know, you could even be less troll-like and state which of the two of us you directed that at!!

Just slightly less troll-like!

Your cooking recipes are good though!

Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:08 am
by Ecmandu
JohnJBannan wrote:Solipsism is the belief that the self is all that can be known to exist. It is not the belief that ideas exist only in a mind.


You know, the funny thing about people who believe in god, is that EVERYTHING is the MIND of god! (Omniscient - knows all) (omnipresent- pervades all) (omnipotent - not only caused but DOES everything!)

Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:15 am
by JohnJBannan
Read #1. You’ll understand why that is.

Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:20 am
by Ecmandu
JohnJBannan wrote:Read #1. You’ll understand why that is.


So let me ask you this again John:

Is god powerful enough to send us all to heaven forever and let each being learn about suffering through infinite time on THEIR OWN TERMS!?!?!

Is god a dictator? Wanting us to only learn on gods own terms?

Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:41 am
by JohnJBannan
Evolution causes suffering. You are really asking whether God can avoid creating us through evolution? We are the products of evolution, so evolution is in our DNA. We cannot be something else but what we are.

Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:46 am
by Ecmandu
JohnJBannan wrote:Evolution causes suffering. You are really asking whether God can avoid creating us through evolution? We are the products of evolution, so evolution is in our DNA. We cannot be something else but what we are.


So... let me get this straight!

God doesn’t have the power to make evolutionary non-suffering?

I can prove otherwise.

But aside from my proof... you don’t think god can do this?

Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:53 am
by JohnJBannan
God cannot make evolution something besides itself. That would be incoherent. Evolution involves suffering.

Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:02 am
by Ecmandu
JohnJBannan wrote:God cannot make evolution something besides itself. That would be incoherent.


Really? You mean that god could have not placed every being (Including atoms and microbes) into its own non-zero sum hyper-dimensional reality attached to individual desire matrices forever?

Funny me?!? I know god could have done that!

See... here’s the deal. Evolution can still occur with this!!

Sure, there are gods!!! Don’t get me wrong!!! I’ve seen their vast powers firsthand!!!

But is there THEE god?!

No fucking way! That’s where you and I diverge!

The ONLY! power that anyone cares about god is omnibenevolence... nobody gives a shit about the rest. Is this omnibenevolent to you? No!

That means all past and present gods are false gods!

Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:22 am
by JohnJBannan
You are a product of evolution. God could put you in heaven, but your DNA is still from evolution. You are a creature derived from evolution.

Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:22 am
by Ecmandu
JohnJBannan wrote:You are a product of evolution. God could put you in heaven, but your DNA is still from evolution. You are a creature derived from evolution.


God could cause every possible organism to be on heaven on earth through the process of evolution!

You deny gods power?

Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:15 am
by MagsJ
Says he who’s having a conversation with himself, in the form of a sock puppet.. that’s the worst kind of trolling ever.. making the site look like joke!

Recipes? That’s all he’s got.. I share recipes.. :confusion-scratchheadyellow:

As you were, troll.

:sleeping-boring:

:sleeping-yellow:

Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:44 am
by JohnJBannan
Not sure what you’re asking?

Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:24 pm
by Fixed Cross
Its like the Thunderwizard says. Only Christians are so insecure about whether or not their God exists that they need arguments for it - to convince themselves.

Please, just move over to a real religion.

Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:46 pm
by JohnJBannan
The existence of God is a question of reason. Therefore, there is a need for reasoning for God’s existence.

Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:43 pm
by Ecmandu
MagsJ wrote:Says he who’s having a conversation with himself, in the form of a sock puppet.. that’s the worst kind of trolling ever.. making the site look like joke!

Recipes? That’s all he’s got.. I share recipes.. :confusion-scratchheadyellow:

As you were, troll.

:sleeping-boring:

:sleeping-yellow:


Whoa!!! Now I understand your post!!!

Dude!! MagsJ, I’ve been on the internet and I’m very proud of two things:

I’ve never ignored someone
I’ve never used a sock puppet

Carleas has my IP address ... PM Carleas and ask him if John is my sock puppet!!

I actually understand now why you don’t have a blue moderator emeritus status... you’re belligerent and downright evil. Power hungry.

Sure I might be that at times too, but I’m not a fucking moderator!!!

Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:03 pm
by Ecmandu
JohnJBannan wrote:The existence of God is a question of reason. Therefore, there is a need for reasoning for God’s existence.


Hmm... this response is lackluster and easy to refute because these sentences don’t imply each other.

I ask you again:

Does god have the power to make every possible being live in heaven on earth and beyond?

Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:56 pm
by JohnJBannan
What do you mean?

This is an ackward statement: “live in heaven on earth and beyond?”

Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:51 pm
by Ecmandu
JohnJBannan wrote:What do you mean?

This is an ackward statement: “live in heaven on earth and beyond?”


That is an awkward statement....

I meant it this way:

Live in ‘heaven on earth’ (including evolution) and additionally, heaven beyond. All of it from beginning to forever...

So I ask you again, is god powerful enough to do this?

Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:43 pm
by Meno_
God is, and more. The trouble is, men cannot have faith enough, yet, to realize that god can only act in situ, not just this, but through all the differing variations where MAN lives.

For sure infinity has by now become much more policentric than realize the real meaning of the vastness of eternity.

Compared to what we.may yet become here, the Copernican Revolution is still situated on an anthill.

We can suppress that power out of the fear that we may never self include in the preset family of an all-inclusive power.

We are afraid of being , afraid of loosing mere existence.

The limits keep receding , that are merely signs by a regressive., ever thin whisk of our own image , of
a self, in the middle , cast between heaven and hell. We can't conceive and transcend , therefore, we can't transport ourselves into the image of god.

At that point, great danger is present, of either a gross inflated or deflated objectification, and that is the point of
of the timescape, where the great temptation arises, to misidentify
sell out, or escape into the near impossible stretched horizon, from which, there appears no exit.

Re: The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:53 pm
by JohnJBannan
Ecmandu wrote:
JohnJBannan wrote:What do you mean?

This is an ackward statement: “live in heaven on earth and beyond?”


That is an awkward statement....

I meant it this way:

Live in ‘heaven on earth’ (including evolution) and additionally, heaven beyond. All of it from beginning to forever...

So I ask you again, is god powerful enough to do this?


God cannot remove suffering from evolution, because it would not be evolution. Blame evolution and atoms neither of whom care about suffering.

Again, God cannot change His uncaused power to create. There may be uncaused aspects of everythingness that God cannot change that necessitate creation in a certain way. Because God’s creation toolbox is uncaused, that may affect hiw things are made because you only get the tools thst come in the box.