in reading Foucault

while eating lunch, ummm wings…

anyway, while eating lunch a thought came to mind…
I don’t know how directly this come from Foucault, but
it also comes from Wittgenstein…

we have, as human beings, limitations…our limitations take on many
different forms… personally, I am limited by my hearing loss and others
are limited by being short or being less intelligent or perhaps not
being very coordinated…the possibilities in this matter can be without
a end and we are also limited in our mental skills… I cannot add,
subtract, multiply or divide to save my life…I am mathematical
challenged…it seems to run in my family with the exception of my brother,
who is a mathematical genius… done test to that point…

but my limitations run beyond just math skills…there is an entire
subgroup of questions that I cannot answer and that in fact,
you cannot answer… we simply can never get to a point where
we can find answers given our limitations…
part of the subgroup of questions is and not excluding any other questions:

“what is the meaning of life?” “what existed before the big bang?”
“what is the destination of life/human beings?” "what is good?‘’
“What are morals?” “is there a god?” We have an entire group of
questions that because of our own limitations, we can never answer…

but the limitations not only lie in us personally, they lie with us collectively…
in the very assumptions we make as a society… because of our ism’s, ideologies,
prejudice, superstitions, biases… we are/become limited in our viewpoints…
we are so fixated on seeing the tree’s, we miss the forest… that is a collective
limitation we all have…if for example, hold that the point of existence
is to seek out profits/money, then we miss out on a entire class of
possibilities that may (or may not) offer us “better possibilities”…

if life is all about finding love, then we might miss out on the whole
range of possibilities that we are capable of… for example seeking
knowledge, seeking god, seeking wisdom, seeking hope, seeking understanding…
we miss all those possibilities if we focus on just seeking love…

our own biases, prejudices, superstitions… may limit us to a very few
possibilities…and not even the “right” possibilities…

we need to understand what ism’s, prejudice, biases, superstitions
we have, that limit us…

our engagement is not only positive, what is possible for me, but negative,
what is causing my own viewpoint to be limited?

what biases or prejudice is keeping me from seeing the whole picture,
what ism is keeping me limited in my viewpoint?

Kropotkin

the question has been asked, should we seek that which is transcendental,
that which is universal in us, because frankly, there isn’t anything in human
ism’s or beliefs or superstitions that are transcendental, universal…
all belief is “ad hoc” that of the moment, to work out a specific current problem…

for example, Kant’s god, freedom and immorality…are they really
transcendental, universal issues? only if we make them so…
only if we define them as such…

but the fact is, we don’t exists within a transcendental, universal universe…
our existence is limited, “ad hoc” for a limited, specific problem, with no
real concern with anything that is transcendental/universal…

who picks up bobby from school and takes him to baseball practice?
who is picking up the dinner? who is taking out the garbage?
what do I need to put into the report my boss is demanding?
these are the daily questions of existence that fills our time,
but nothing transcendental/universal…

and the questions of the transcendental/universal seem to be beyond
our grasp because of our limited viewpoint… how can we see our goal
within existence if we cannot see our beginning in existence?

limitations in ism’s, viewpoints, skills and desires, force us into
a limited understanding of the universe…

how do we expand our limitations to increase our understanding of the universe?

Kropotkin

In his book, "Death and the Labyrinth:
The world of Raymond Roussel

Foucault wrote this:

‘‘I belonged to that generation who as students had
before their eyes, and were limited by a horizon consisting of Marxism,
phenomenology and existentialism’’

as I was coming on the scene, the horizon was only of Marxism,
phenomenology had already died and existentialism was dying…
today, existentialism is dead as is Marxism… so tell me,
what lies on our horizon? what ism’s are driving our world?

the already failed hope of capitalism and then what?

therein lies our problem… we have no ism that drives us today as
those three plus the long dead ism of Psychoanalysis drove
the world before the Second World War…

you cannot understand the thinking of the modern world without
some engagement with those 4 ism’s…all bow before them…

one might say, we are faced with the “Ism” of postmodernism but
that isn’t an ism, that is nothing more then a slogan…

the fact is that we don’t have any type of "ism’’ that succeeded
like those 4 isms…

Marxism, phenomenology, existentialism and Psychoanalysis…

these four idea’s are the bedrock of virtually every movement
in the 20th century… you can’t write a history of the 20th century
and not engage with these four ism’s…

and what ism would you engage with if you were writing a history of
ism’s in the 21st century? there isn’t one and that is the problem…

Kropotkin

Do not start with “belief”.
Foucault was far too smart to hang on a belief system.
MF unpacks belief. He unwinds and examines the endemic assumptions and having laid them bare points to the underlying ideologies and control systems by which human society functions.
One of his most interstesting appraoches is an examination of knowledge/power.
He was definitely into living the authentic life, eschewing convention in favour of his own sexual exploration of his homesexuality.

On the beginning. course of finding the way of dissolution of the power motive, especially or primarily that of homosexuality, Sartre’s’Saint Genet’ is a precurser, a must, dealing with the archiology rather than the dissimulation of previously unfimiliar current outlooks.

On the beginning. course of finding the way of dissolution of the power motive, especially or primarily that of homosexuality, Sartre’s’Saint Genet’ is a precurser, a must, dealing with the archiology rather than the dissimulation of previously unfimiliar current outlooks.

The analogy between imprisonment and loss of will via autonomy is one feature and the other . the conflation with ideal pradigmns.

These are skimmed over by Foucault.

I am reading Foucault’s “Madness and Civilization”
and at point, Foucault writes about the use of, value of labor…
is man suppose to work the land to profit from, to clear and till the land
is a function of what it means to be human… as we work as part of our punishment
of being tossed out of paradise, Eden… work is part of the every, ongoing punishment for
violating god’s law…

but let us think about this for a moment…and take a slightly different stance…

to work, to produce, also has an ethical side… the outrage against the
"mythical’’ welfare queen shows us this side…the point is to work for one’s
daily needs is foundational in American society…the ones who don’t work,
the one’s who “mooch” off of the rest of us, is hated and despised among American’s
but the basis of that hate is ethical, moral…that everyone should pull their own
weight could be said to be the foundational rule in America…to sponge, to beg,
to bum off of other people can be said to be the lowest form of life in America…

even child molesters seem to be thought of higher then those who leach off
of society… and that is an ethical, moral decision…a child molester
harms only one child whereas a moocher is mooching off of everyone…
you and me… the hatred of one who is a “parasite” is visible in America today…

even the wealthy are not above consideration in working… as long as Gates works,
he is considered to have some value… but if Gates or Bezos, retires, then
they are living on their wealth and lose a lot of “value” in America…
they are no longer respected as they once were… look at Warren Buffett…he is 90,
he still works and thus he is still highly respected… and that is considered
to be what one is supposed to do in America… continue to work no matter how old
you are… to continue to earn a living… to pull your own weight…

and that is once again a moral understanding of working… to work is to be ethical,
moral…not to work is to be unethical, immoral… it is that simple… and is
approached to, just as that… to work is to be moral, ethical… it is a judgement
about people we make… perhaps the second question we ask people after what is
your name, what do you do? what is your occupation… and from this answer, we
can make moral judgement about who you are and you can make moral judgements
about who I am…

Kropotkin

so Foucault, brings this to the surface…
that for centuries, we locked up thousands of people, the
“insane” the criminals, the lazy (those who did not work) into
places… the reason was rather simple…

if one didn’t work for a living, of one didn’t “pull their own weight”
they were considered to be useless, a weight on society
and in this great, for a lack of better word, prisons… the inmates
were made to work… they did weaving or logging wood or other such
tasks… and that was the value of this lock up, to gain further
production from people who failed to work the “right” amount…
those mad people, the lazy, the criminal… were all believed to
be morally compromised… and to make them “right” they were required to
work… the value of such a place isn’t to heal those who needed healing, but
to put them to use by working… there great crime against society, wasn’t being
insane or being a criminal but in failing to be a “productive” human being…
that is the crime for which they were imprisoned…failing to be an “productive”
human being

so why do we allow ourselves to make moral judgement on people if they
don’t or cannot work? so to be an “ethical” “moral” American… one must
have job or produce something… or you are a leach… and that is the
highest insult in America today…

Kropotkin

If you’re going to seriously undertake a reading/study of the great philosopher nonphilosopher Foucault, it’s important to

  1. Remember he’s a French faggot who unironically wrote an essay defending the idea that children can in fact morally consent to sexual interactions with adults (I’m not shitposting, I’m serious)
  2. An even bigger faggot, (not French though, so he had that advantage I guess) Chomsky, beat the shit out of him in a debate in front of everyone and all he could do was make obnoxious frowning facial animations
  3. He was a cat person
  4. Premature male baldness
  5. That’s about all

He is the quintessence of French bullshit philosophy boiled down to the point of self-caricature. Even worse than Derrida. I’ve found a use for and cited nearly every writer and philosopher that ever existed in my own works at one time or another-- but in all 12 volumes, not once does either of those two names appear. Hence my obvert disrespect toward the (?)man. Also he’s a pederast.

At any rate, he defines madness in such a nebulous, French way, and then goes on for page after page in the titular book like he’s saying something. Yeah. We mistreated things we didn’t understand about criminality and mental illness since the time of ancient Rome when epilepsy was thought to be a sign of demonic possession. We used to lobotomize people to make them stop acting up. Is that all he had to say? Because if he was saying anything more than “that’s bad”, I could never find it.

To a flat-brained deconstructionist like him, all laws are the same, all laws equally arbitrary, and prison itself is an immoral, arbitrary injunction with no possible legitimate social function. Hence his objecting to age of consent laws. To him we’re just arbitrarily imposing a standard of “good” or “healthy” that has no possible basis in what we know about the psychology of children and their sensitivities and vulnerability, when beyond the febrile boundaries of our moral blind spot, a pederastic relationship might be a really beautiful human experience, and only another example of the depth of passion being held down by the mental prison of the Logos,- in HIS analysis. Even summarizing his nonsense so I can make my own point against it makes me nauseous, which is why I avoid him. I don’t even want to mention this shit in my own books. I don’t want there to be an association by proxy to it. Fuck this guy.

[quote=“Parodites”]
If you’re going to seriously undertake a reading/study of the great philosopher nonphilosopher Foucault, it’s important to

  1. Remember he’s a French faggot who unironically wrote an essay defending the idea that children can in fact morally consent to sexual interactions with adults (I’m not shitposting, I’m serious)
  2. An even bigger faggot, (not French though, so he had that advantage I guess) Chomsky, beat the shit out of him in a debate in front of everyone and all he could do was make obnoxious frowning facial animations
  3. He was a cat person
  4. Premature male baldness
  5. That’s about all

K: so, sexually orientation matters in judging philosophers?
is this because those who engage in homosexual matters are…
less able to conduct philosophy? or are they simply dismissed because
of arbitrary ethical considerations? if we were to look at philosophers, based
solely on ethical considerations, who do you think we might be forced to dismiss
those who don’t hold up to our ethical considerations? so, let us judge
philosophers, not on philosophy, but on ethical considerations…

I think we can quickly dismiss the early Greek writers like Socrates, Plato
and Aristotle on ethical considerations, not on philosophical considerations…
we know that the Greeks believe in pedastry, so just on that consideration, we
dismiss the Greek writers…and you have to wonder about any philosophers
who didn’t marry… ever wonder why they didn’t marry? Perhaps they were getting
some homosexual nookie on the side… and based on that, we must dismiss everyone not
married we cannot study Augustine, Descartes, Spinoza, Aquinas, Kant, Hume, Hobbes,
Leibniz, Nietzsche… and that is a small list… but we must keep in mind
ethical considerations for our philosophers, so we also dismiss Descartes because
he had a child out of wedlock, we must dismiss Schopenhauer because he pushed
an old women down some stairs and was forced to pay her money every month,
pushing an old women down the stairs doesn’t sound very ethical to me, so, gone,
and we must dismiss Kierkegaard… he promised to marry Regina and broke that promise
that doesn’t sound very ethical, so K. is gone and what about our modern day philosophers?
for example Heidegger was a Nazi… that isn’t very acceptable so, Heidegger gone
and what about Sartre… he lived with another woman for years without marrying her…
that doesn’t sound very ethical, so Sartre gone…I am sure if we looked at every single
philosopher in terms of ethical considerations, we can eliminate every single one of them…
so what is left of philosophy if we removed from study, any philosopher who is unethical?
all of philosophy is gone…is that really your stance?

I think you protest too much… I think you are not a very ethical person at all,
and by taking it out on Foucault, you think no one will notice how unethical
you are… so, I am thinking you are lusting for young boys and despise yourself for it…
that is the basis of your self hate…and that is why you despise Foucault… because
he did what you fantasize about… does this ring a bell?

Kropotkin

What keter is trying to say is that you committed the ultimate ad homo against F in that post.

I know a bunch of gay philosopher dudes that put work in, bro.

First of all, neither of you can take a joke, second of all:

" .and that is why you despise Foucault… because
he did what you fantasize about… does this ring a bell?"

No, no it doesn’t. And the fact that you’d say something like that is exactly why I avoid ever even acknowledging Foucault exists in anything I write, because it’s a contamination to even argue with him about these topics. (My type is more a long the lines of 90-100 pound 20 yearish or so old European females, like the one whose loss I have been drinking and pill popping myself into oblivion on a regular basis quite publicly on this forum.)

And my objecting in the way I did to his rationale for deconstructing consent laws based on an ambiguous reconceptualization of the logos and ‘madness’: that’s not an ad hominem attack. That’s an argument. Here, I’ll repeat it for you: To a flat-brained deconstructionist like him, all laws are the same, all laws equally arbitrary, and prison itself is an immoral, arbitrary injunction with no possible legitimate social function. Hence his objecting to age of consent laws. To him we’re just arbitrarily imposing a standard of “good” or “healthy” that has no possible basis in what we know about the psychology of children and their sensitivities and vulnerability, when beyond the febrile boundaries of our moral blind spot, a pederastic relationship might be a really beautiful human experience, and only another example of the depth of passion being held down by the mental prison of the Logos,- in HIS analysis. Even summarizing his nonsense so I can make my own point against it makes me nauseous, which is why I avoid him. I don’t even want to mention this shit in my own books. I don’t want there to be an association by proxy to it. Fuck this guy.

The stuff above it was the ad hominem attack, and also the joke.

The problem isn’t that he’s gay, it’s that he’s a faggot. Big difference. A lot of gay dudes are hardly faggots, and a lot of faggots aren’t gay. The main problem though is that he philosophically tried to justify deconstructing the idea of sexual consent, specifically in relation to age of consent laws.

First of all, neither of you can take a joke, second of all:

" .and that is why you despise Foucault… because
he did what you fantasize about… does this ring a bell?"

No, no it doesn’t. And the fact that you’d say something like that is exactly why I avoid ever even acknowledging Foucault exists in anything I write, because it’s a contamination to even argue with him about these topics. So thank you for proving my point. (My type is more a long the lines of 90-100 pound 20 yearish or so old European females, like the one whose loss I have been drinking and pill popping myself into oblivion for on a regular basis quite publicly on this forum.) And if you want to know why I am so hostile to this deconstruction of age-of-consent, it’s because a woman I love got taken advantage of as a child and sexually traumatized for the rest of her life, so I feel some personal vendetta against this kind of material. So why don’t you go fuck yourself then?

He did actually write an essay defending the moral potential of pederasty/deconstructing the idea of consent in general. I’m not putting words in his mouth or being disingenuous. I’m not slandering him. So I don’t really see how I’m being immoral/unethical, though even if I was, I wouldn’t care particularly because I’m not in a formal debate at the moment and I can go ahead and take the piss out of whoever the fuck I want to take the piss out of.

I despise him for the same reason I despise deconstructionists in general, (It’s just made more visceral toward him because 1) I hate French philosophy and 2) he’s a pederast) and my objecting in the way I did to his rationale for deconstructing consent laws based on an ambiguous reconceptualization of the logos and ‘madness’: that’s not an ad hominem attack. That’s an argument. Here, I’ll repeat it for you: To a flat-brained deconstructionist like him, all laws are the same, all laws equally arbitrary, and prison itself is an immoral, arbitrary injunction with no possible legitimate social function. Hence his objecting to age of consent laws. To him we’re just arbitrarily imposing a standard of “good” or “healthy” that has no possible basis in what we know about the psychology of children and their sensitivities and vulnerability, when beyond the febrile boundaries of our moral blind spot, a pederastic relationship might be a really beautiful human experience, and only another example of the depth of passion being held down by the mental prison of the Logos,- in HIS analysis. Even summarizing his nonsense so I can make my own point against it makes me nauseous, which is why I avoid him. I don’t even want to mention this shit in my own books. I don’t want there to be an association by proxy to it.

That’s not an ad hominem. I’m saying his basis for deconstructing the notion of consent based on the idea that all boundaries drawn up by the logos against madness, sickness, evil, criminality, etc. are arbitrary, is philosophically untenable and also leads to obvert moral trespasses being excused, like ya know, pederasty.

The stuff above it was the ad hominem attack, and also the joke.

I don’t know why you’re so bent out of shape about it. If this guy’s some kind of intellectual hero for you, perhaps reconsider and get another intellectual hero, because this guy sux. Or don’t have any intellectual heroes in the first place, most of the intelligentsia’s a bunch of fuckin’ degenerates anyway. Poets can have heroes. Even painters can. Musicians. Not philosophers. I’m my only hero.

Ethics? My ethical imperative is to enrich consciousness. That’s it. Not to be nice, not to help people in need. Enrich consciousness. Matter of fact, pain is a great tool in that regard.

If you are serious then you can cite that!

CHomsky made a damn fool of himself. Had nothing to say except his hopeless obsession with human innate langauge, which was utterly irrelevant to the discussion.
MF owned him.

Fucking boys does not mean you are not capable of great thoughts. Most Greek philosophers took a dip in the brown ocean.

Yeah but being French does mean you can’t have great thoughts. And I’ve argued at length against deconstructionism all across the forum, everything I said about it, applies doubly to Foucault.

He wrote of this subject in several texts and even had the balls to give radio interviews on it.

Michel Foucault argued that children are able to give consent to sexual relations, saying that assuming “that a child is incapable of explaining what happened and was incapable of giving his consent are two abuses that are intolerable, quite unacceptable.”[2] Foucault, Sartre, and newspapers such as Libération and Le Monde each defended the idea of child-adult sexual relationships.[3]

Onishi, Norimitsu (7 January 2020). “A Victim’s Account Fuels a Reckoning Over Abuse of Children in France”. New York Times. Archived from the original on 9 January 2020. Retrieved 10 January 2020. But the publication, last Thursday, of an account by one of his victims, Vanessa Springora, has suddenly fueled an intense debate in France over its historically lax attitude toward sex with minors. It has also shone a particularly harsh light on a period during which some of France’s leading literary figures and newspapers — names as big as Foucault, Sartre, Libération and Le Monde — aggressively promoted the practice as a form of human liberation, or at least defended it.

He didn’t just defend it, Foucault: he encouraged and championed it as a form of radical human liberation of pathos from the strictures of the logos. FOR REALSIES. All of these French philosopher fucks at the time were into this shit.

My ad hominems were jokes. I also gave the actual reason why I object to this type of deconstructionist logic in the two other posts I made here.

Parodites: The problem isn’t that he’s gay, it’s that he’s a faggot. Big difference. A lot of gay dudes are hardly faggots, and a lot of faggots aren’t gay. The main problem though is that he philosophically tried to justify deconstructing the idea of sexual consent, specifically in relation to age of consent laws.
First of all, neither of you can take a joke, second of all:

K: ahhh, the you can’t take a joke defense…so if IQ45 says to kill Biden,
and someone does it, his defense is… you can’t take a joke? I was joking…
it is a weak and pathetic defense…I say kill Parodites… and someone does it…
my defense will be, I was joking, can’t Parodites take a joke… I was only kidding… no
harm meant…and of course, I will have no responsibility for my words because, hay,
I was “joking”… words must have accountability… we must be held accountable for our
words, regardless if we were “joking” or not…

K:" .and that is why you despise Foucault… because
he did what you fantasize about… does this ring a bell?"

P: No, no it doesn’t. And the fact that you’d say something like that is exactly why I avoid ever even acknowledging Foucault exists in anything I write, because it’s a contamination to even argue with him about these topics. So thank you for proving my point. (My type is more a long the lines of 90-100 pound 20 yearish or so old European females, like the one whose loss I have been drinking and pill popping myself into oblivion for on a regular basis quite publicly on this forum.) And if you want to know why I am so hostile to this deconstruction of age-of-consent, it’s because a woman I love got taken advantage of as a child and sexually traumatized for the rest of her life, so I feel some personal vendetta against this kind of material. So why don’t you go fuck yourself then?

K: and that person and yourself are still held hostage by the past…everyone has events,
people and yes, even places that have traumatized them… the question becomes,
are you going to continue to be held hostage by the past or, or do you overcome it…
because of a women’s irresponsible behavior/actions, before I was even born, cause
my severe hearing loss… and from which I am going deaf today, should I still harbor
hate or anger toward her? I could be still held hostage by the past and hate her
and no one would deny me that right and yet, I have simply overcome that hate
and anger… how? by understanding the past is the past… events and people who have
harmed me, and trust me, there were many…I haven’t forgiven them as much as my
simply moving on…the past is events, people, places that once were… but are no more…
they can only harm me today if, IF I let them, allow them…the past is gone,
dead and buried…I will not be held hostage by a past that no longer exists
and cannot ever occur today…

P: He did actually write an essay defending the moral potential of pederasty/deconstructing the idea of consent in general. I’m not putting words in his mouth or being disingenuous. I’m not slandering him. So I don’t really see how I’m being immoral/unethical, though even if I was, I wouldn’t care particularly because I’m not in a formal debate at the moment and I can go ahead and take the piss out of whoever the fuck I want to take the piss out of.

K; and why does this bother you so much? an essay written by someone dead almost
40 years ago… he died in 1984…well, if I were a Christian, I could still be offended by
the book Copernicus wrote in in 1543, in which he proved that the sun was the center
of the universe, not the earth and that offends my Christian sensibilities… so
I hate and despise Copernicus… for a book written almost 500 years ago! how long
shall my anger and hate for Copernicus last for? For how long shall I be held hostage by
a book written centuries ago? So for how long shall we allow our trauma from the past
to hold us hostage?

O: [b]I despise him for the same reason I despise deconstructionists in general, (It’s just made more visceral toward him because 1) I hate French philosophy and 2) he’s a pederast) and my objecting in the way I did to his rationale for deconstructing consent laws based on an ambiguous reconceptualization of the logos and ‘madness’: that’s not an ad hominem attack. That’s an argument. Here, I’ll repeat it for you: To a flat-brained deconstructionist like him, all laws are the same, all laws equally arbitrary, and prison itself is an immoral, arbitrary injunction with no possible legitimate social function. Hence his objecting to age of consent laws. To him we’re just arbitrarily imposing a standard of “good” or “healthy” that has no possible basis in what we know about the psychology of children and their sensitivities and vulnerability, when beyond the febrile boundaries of our moral blind spot, a pederastic relationship might be a really beautiful human experience, and only another example of the depth of passion being held down by the mental prison of the Logos,- in HIS analysis. Even summarizing his nonsense so I can make my own point against it makes me nauseous, which is why I avoid him. I don’t even want to mention this shit in my own books. I don’t want there to be an association by proxy to it.

K: as for me, his homosexuality nor his “pederasty” need stop me from studying Foucault…
reading him doesn’t make me complicit or accepting of his personal views…I hold that
the age of consent for sexual matter should be 18 and the any sexual encounter,
any sexual encounter of any age, must be consensual… Am I now acceptable to
for someone to read, because now my views are in compliance with your views?
for according to you, we can only read those philosophers and writers, who views
are morally acceptable to us…what if suddenly a paper is discovered that has
Foucault renouncing pederastry… would he suddenly become acceptable to you?

P:[/b]
That’s not an ad hominem. I’m saying his basis for deconstructing the notion of consent based on the idea that all boundaries drawn up by the logos against madness, sickness, evil, criminality, etc. are arbitrary, is philosophically untenable and also leads to obvert moral trespasses being excused, like ya know, pederasty. The stuff above it was the ad hominem attack, and also the joke.

K: so you hold that there is an ‘‘objective’’ moral code that we must follow
in order to be considered to be an ‘‘ethical’’ person? and is the basis, the source
of this ethical/moral code? this is an straight forward epistemological problem…
what is the source of this knowledge, that there is an ‘‘objective’’ moral code
we must follow and how do we know this knowledge is in fact, ''true?"

P: I don’t know why you’re so bent out of shape about it. If this guy’s some kind of intellectual hero for you, perhaps reconsider and get another intellectual hero, because this guy sux. Or don’t have any intellectual heroes in the first place, most of the intelligentsia’s a bunch of fuckin’ degenerates anyway. Poets can have heroes. Even painters can. Musicians. Not philosophers. I’m my only hero.

K; I am in fact not the who is ‘‘bent out of shape’’…as I am not the being held hostage
by the past… you state that ‘‘most intelligentsia’s a bunch of fucking degenerates anyway’’
and we know this how? Your evidence for this is… your word? you have made
an incredible number of assumptions in this thread… you may want to rethink
or reevaluate your stance towards, intellectual’s, Foucault, French thinkers…
any number of assumptions of yours practically beg of being reviewed…

P: Ethics? My ethical imperative is to enrich consciousness. That’s it. Not to be nice, not to help people in need. Enrich consciousness. Matter of fact, pain is a great tool in that regard.

K: and how does rejecting thinkers like Foucault and intellectuals, based on ethical
considerations lead us to “enrich consciousness?”

In fact, all you have shown us is hate (which you admit to) and how does this mindless
rejection of thinkers based on very shaky ethical concerns, lead us to an
“enrich consciousness”…in fact, your entire thinking is based upon feelings
and emotions/ Romantic beliefs… nothing in your post’s suggest any rational thought
or engagement with reason… it is hatred and anger and disgust… how is that
being rational? no, you have reacted to Foucault on a strictly emotional basis…
how does that lead us to an “enrich consciousness?”

Kropotkin

I wasn’t saying it was a joke as a defense. I was saying it was a joke because it was intended to be funny. I do actually believe everything I said in the joke though. I didn’t want to give you the impression that I wasn’t being serious and was trying to pass it off like I was just saying what I did to be an asshole. No, I do actually believe it. I just have an enjoyment for language and saying things in a funny way.

Why does it bother me so much that a fairly well respected “intellectual” seriously, emphatically defended the moral value of sexual child predation on the grounds that all evil, criminality, and madness was an unjustifiable imposition of the Logos on human ‘nature’, with the entire discourse of the logos (Western morality, which tells us things like fucking children isn’t cool) being, to his mind, intellectually bankrupt… why does that bother me? Is that seriously your question to me? The philosophy in which it is possible to seriously defend having sex with children as not morally evil is a philosophy that can produce all other kinds of garbage, do you not realize that? In fact, it is a philosophy that can produce NOTHING BUT garbage.

YA KNOW WHAT, I DON’T KNOW. Why does that bother me? Because it’s the founding motive for the entire Leftist mass-psychosis we’re now living through? Because it’s an intellectual rape of our entire culture inheritance from Greece and the concept of morality itself? Because it’s a defense of fucking kids?

It doesn’t bother you?

Just say it, explicitly then. I don’t need to articulate why that might bother me, besides I already did.

Unfortunately, telling rape victims to ‘get over it’ like you just did, with regard to the woman I mentioned, is not a solution I can find much in. I’d prefer defending the discourse of the Logos those like Foucault tried and continue to try their hardest to decompose. It’s decay is of great consequence.

" K: and how does rejecting thinkers like Foucault and intellectuals, based on ethical
considerations lead us to “enrich consciousness?”"

Well rejecting thinkers like Foucault is only the first step, the second is accepting thinkers like me. I wrote 12 books ya know, didn’t use the word faggot in a single one of them.

"Romantic beliefs… nothing in your post’s suggest any rational thought
or engagement with reason… it is hatred and anger and disgust… how is that
being rational? no, you have reacted to Foucault on a strictly emotional basis…
how does that lead us to an “enrich consciousness?”

No. Just stop right there. I gave you a perfectly rational rationale. His entire basis is deconstructing the conceptual distinction of reason and madness (through the use of a tool called the materialist dialectic of history, which Marx first developed by inverting the Hegelian propaedeutic: I go over that in the three self-excerpts at the end of this post; suffice to say that all Leftists, in one way or another, use this same inverted dialectic to level the field of discourse and make actual dialogue impossible, just as critical race theorists use it to transform the idea of racism into something so nebulous it can be applied to everyone and everything) to the point that neither mean anything anymore and have become entirely ambiguous, and then he formulates the argument that every possible law or moral evaluation amounts to an unjustifiable imposition of logos and reason on human nature. He rejects the idea that there can be any real social function in a law like don’t fuck kids because of how he’s framed this polarity between what he calls madness and reason, and it’s a polarity that no longer makes any sense. It’s like how modern Leftists define racism in such a nebulous way that it allows them to call everyone racist for whatever reason they want, that is what deconstructionism, is. It’s not my problem if you can’t fucking get it, but don’t tell me I didn’t, immediately after leaving my jokes, provide an objective statement about it. This shit is pissing me off, fuck off. Of course, if you accept Foucault’s deconstruction of ‘reason’ as a concept, you can just tell me that anything I possibly say is an irrational imposition of logos on discourse, reducing all dialogue to a mindless game of power.

^ Foucault inherited this from Marx, who did it first. His concept of the species-essence was a deconstruction of the modes of capitalist relation which allowed him to formulate a specious argument in which all division of labor, like that exampled by industrial society, was an arbitrary and therefor unjustifiable imposition of power. I elaborate this at great length in my own books. So here ya’ go dipshit, you want to deal with something lacking in jokes and my more conversational antipathy:

" Marx believed that all men, including all races and genders, contain within themselves a shared, common species-essence. In other words,
human nature is already formed and perfected, but it is forced to express itself in a limited form, with these limited forms tied to specific periods
in our history. This limitation takes the ultimate form of what we understand to be subjugation, slavery,- that is, the inequality that manifests
itself, by purely causal derivation, within the social relations,- within man’s relationship to man. All individuality is thus simply the unconscious
delusion whereby man proclaims his limitation as his individuality,- something Marx calls ‘false-consciousness’. For, if we all share a common
essence that cannot fully express itself materially, then all individuality is a delusion and simply one man proclaiming his limitation as his true
self because he happens to be, presumably, on a privileged side of the social relations at that point in history. The limitation, more precisely, owes
itself to the unstable dialectic of material history,- a dialectic between the modes of production and the social relations of production. Where
Hegel believed the dialectical instability was inherent in Being itself, so that Temporality extracts the latent imperfection of Being as Non-Being,
(thesis-antithesis) and then converts the absence/negative (What Hegel calls negation-of-the-negation) of that Non-being into a presence or a
metaphysical positivity called Becoming, (the synthesis) with the whole process repeating ad infinitum by extracting the new imperfection within
Becoming, etc. etc. leading toward a Totalization of Absolute Spirit, Marx inverts this to say that history, through stabilizing the social relations
and modes, is leading to an ultimate state of equality and freedom- a state of existence in which the species-essence, contained perfectly in all
men, is finally able to express itself without limitation, such that no inequalities (social hierarchies) will appear between men anymore, since all
men will be expressing the exact same essence by the exact same modality. I of course “believe” that individuality is not merely man’s false
affirmation of his distorted limitation as a true self,- of the limited expression of the species-essence within him as his authentic consciousness;
instead, I believe in a genuine creative force by which novel individualities are developed, through processes I defined like mimesis and the
exchange-functions. At any rate, this idea of all individuality being a lie,- of all identity/individuality being simply a limitation of the common
species-essence, which induces those in a favorable position, like slave-masters, to proclaim that limitation as their authentic self, such that all
social hierarchies must be rebuked as similarly grounded in mere distortions of the species-essence,-- at any rate, this is where all forms of
Leftism come from. Leftism is a deconstructive effort to erode these forms of individuality and hierarchy because Leftists believe,- even if they
are not aware themselves of the deep-theory behind it, that is, even if they never read Marx and Hegel,- (indeed 99 out of 100 self-affirming
Leftists not only didn’t read them, they can’t read them) that all forms of individuality are delusional, that individuality itself is a lie and finally,
by obvious implication, that all social hierarchies formalizing differences between individuals must be evil, that is, subjugating and tyrannical.
From National Socialism to Democratic Socialism: this is what Leftism actually “is”. In all its myriad forms, this is the commonality; if you
believe this, no matter what else you add on top of it, you’re a Leftist. This is why it seems like everything is an expression of racism, bigotry,
homophobia, etc. to them: because everything precisely is that, insofar as everything is precisely an expression of the limitation of the human
species-essence induced by dialectical instabilities between the social relations of production and the instrumental modes of production. Because
all individuality is delusional and exists as merely an expression of species-essence in its limitation, concepts like individual rights pre-existing
government, 1 meritocracy, private property, or free-speech, etc.- all that amounts to institutional structures meant to reinforce a hierarchy
favoring white people at the level of the social relations of production, because white people happened to be in power at the time the Declaration
and Constitution were conceived and written, as well as during the proper emergence of the capitalist system, which dominates the
world-economy up to this point."

[i]" … In Marx-Engels, we have the concept of the ‘Social Relations of Production’, which we might read as a more limited conception than that of the
‘normativized individualities’ discussed here, along with their ‘evaluative constraints’, as derived out of the process of mimesis. Similarly, finding
a more limited conception of these restraints, we have a corresponding notion in the ‘Modes of Production’ as defined by the ‘Social Relations of
Production’, whereby surplus-capital is instrumentally distributed in accordance to what Marx calls ‘the law of historical progression’, given the
fact that social relations and the modes of production introduce their own dialectical instability and therefor a materialist force driving a
stabilizing process (the dialectical-materialist reading of History) toward some future. Thus, in Marx, different ‘stages’ of history are simply
different organizations of the distributed surplus-wealth,- organizations of capital formed in accordance with the modes of production which
existed at the time, entirely divorced from any sempiternal metaphysical foundation sub species aeternitatis and determined solely by the ‘social
relations’ under-girding their instrumental realization as human techne- modes that, in turn, modulated man’s expression of his own
species-essence, thereby defining- through limitation, these very social relations. The stabilization of this dialectic, in Marx’s greater system,
drives history toward,- where Hegel would say the Absolute Spirit,- what Marx would call ‘freedom’,- that is, a state of being in which the
dialectic has been perfectly stabilized and man is emancipated from all the tyranny of man, such that the State ceases to exist as we know it,
along with its economic foundations, whereby a new harmony is achieved and the perfection of the species-essence is brought into total
conformation with the social relations, and the social relations in turn with it. Because Marx believes that the species-essence is contained and
perfected, if latently, in all men, the formation of subjectivies through somato-mimetic transfer between individuals (and later, the
exchange-functions) is not accounted for, and, in its place, we have the total brunt of the argument placed upon the limited forms through which
man, as essentially already perfected or ‘formed’, is able to express this perfection,- (a perfection roughly corresponding, if in an inverted form,
to Hegel’s totality) namely in his relationship with other men; a relationship expressed, from out of a state of nature, in an accordingly marred
and utterly limited form,- a form stained by thousands of years of pre-historical subjugation and tyranny concluded in the production of capital,
and tendentially disposed toward greater freedom, progress, equality, etc. insofar as ‘the law of history’ is obeyed,- which we have of course no
option but to do, given the fact that this law is proclaimed a material science by Marx, and a certainty as well-established as any other science.
In so many words, ‘individuality’, ‘identity’, ‘subjectivity’ and so on, constitute merely a limitation of a common essence latently perfected in all
men, for which the social relations and the modes of production pose a dialectical instability visible in our history, in the false-consciousness by
whose unconscious imposition man is led to proclaim this limitation as his delusional ‘individuality’, (to proclaim his slavery as his freedom) and
the oppressive hierarchies by which this ‘essence’ is prevented from completely expressing itself without distortion."

" … Without a way to selectively produce from the available cultural materials a distinct form or ethos, (neglecting of course those
selective mechanisms operated by artificial intelligence, which of course only more thoroughly neutralize the dialogue between the individual and
group) no tribes can emerge around the codification of such distinct forms in the gestural language typifying a group-identity, so that the
population flattens out into a heterogeneous assemblage,- that is, a kind of entropic maxima beyond whose ontological black-hole we are not
prepared to venture any tentative speculation,- a leveling of the individual echoing what Marx had called the ‘species-essence’, that being a
dialectical totalization of human nature with its own underlying material forces, given his premise that every man possesses intrinsically the
entire nature of humanity, and that all men are therefor equally capable of playing the fisherman, of being a poet, a scientist, a composer, a
farmer, etc. so that the specialization of labor induced by capitalism (the secondary-process, as we would prefer to call it) causes an alienation
from that internal totality,- from the species essence,- with Marx further elaborating that this sense of alienation is what, under the delusion of
capitalism, we call our “individuality”, which he reads as a mere symptom of a certain pathological delusion, or again using his own language, a
‘false-consciousness’. The apparent contradiction in the bulk of critical theory, with the individual deconstructively excised from the
primary-process and the subject thus solely elevated to the status of Truth, alongside the conclusion that the individual is programmatically
derived by the secondary through a kind of specialization tacitly grounded in the very marginalization, class-structure, gender disparity, socially
constructed roles, and racism that critical-theory finds its highest task in freeing us from, is not merely an apparent contradiction- it is in fact quite
integral to the world-view in question,- that is, a hard leftism which best serves those who have co-opted and transformed it into a mere
ideological vessel for the secreted transmission of certain economic and political goals, like the mass exportation of labor to foreign nations
passed off as a moral victory and couched upon the ideal of a freer and more inclusive world, or less emphatically said, on open boarders and the
kind of pan-hemispheric markets so beneficial to those states currently enjoying the later stages of tertiary-capitalism, or more properly,- to those
corporations in control of such states. In so many words, this subversion of mimesis is ultimately responsible for the dissolution of the political
into the subpolitical, of morality into bioethics, as well as for the fragmentation of the human subject into unthinking individualism, hedonic
excess, materiality, consumerism, tribalist identity-politics, etc. Liberal-secular humanism, as Dugin explains, designates simply this sub-political
reality of modern politics, insofar as the basic interests of liberal humanism,- or more generally, the most conspicuous subject matter of our
political discourse on both the Left and the Right,- consists in things like the legislation of marijuana, the legality of gay marriage, etc. none of
which are even political subjects in the true sense, but simply the matter of bottom up, state-level legislatures already established theoretically by
the federalists a few hundred years ago and of course injuncted upon or ignored by federal over-reach and those executive agencies spirited along
by corporatocratic neocons and neolibs in the pursuit of their globalist program."[/i]

As Marx’s use of this materialist dialectic deconstructed and rendered illegible all legitimate social hierarchy and division of labor, so Foucault’s renders unreadable all legitimate distinction between immoral and moral acts, even on obvious issues like child predation being evil, just as the feminist use of the materialist dialectic between male-female relations reduces all gender discourse to an omnipresent patriarchy within which it is not possible to say anything at all without being branded a defender of the patriarchy. Do you not see what this “philosophy” has done? It has turned all discourse into a game of power and made philosophy impossible, made moral values impossible to delimit, even on issues we all instinctively know are wrong.

So as Marx applied this inverted dialectic to master-slave distinction, so Foucault to madness-reason, so critical gender theorists to man-woman, etc.-- all to the same end; to the end of making the discourse of the Logos unreadable, thereby reducing all dialogue to a game of power and making it impossible to defend any laws or moral values as anything more than arbitrary impositions of power, even moral values as obvious as ‘sex with kids is wrong’.

^ You wanted some rational arguments instead of jokes, there ya’ go. Deal with that homie. I’ve got about 14,000 pages of it now if you can manage the three paragraphs.

I don’t have any more time than this, to explain to you and everyone else why… It pisses me off when people defend child abuse as morally OK. Fuck this.

and I return to Foucault…

Part of the modern world, inherited from the church and a thousand years
of moral judgments…poverty and those within poverty are judged, but
they are judged on ethical grounds… think of the Protestant belief in
hard work as the path to heaven…and one of the vices given in the
bible as the Christian seven vices is sloth which can be defined as :

sloth; is a habitual disinclination to exertion or laziness

and this is truly believed by Protestants and in modern day
America…we define work and those who do and those who
don’t in ethical terms…those on welfare or WIC programs are
judged ethical/morally…we see poverty as an ethical problem,
not as an systemic economic problem…which means we cannot solve
ethical problems such as poverty and sloth with social and economic
solutions because those who fall into poverty have moral issues, not
economic issues… and we base our political programs on that “fact”…

which is why right wing politicians are always demanding that those on social
programs such as welfare or WIC programs, are drug tested and closely
observed to see that they fulfill their moral obligations, going to church
and other moral answers to poverty… that the right wing love to propose…

and this explains why we have failed to solve poverty issues because
they are seen as morality/ethical problems, not as economic or political problems…

the key to solving any problem is to work out the questions first and we haven’t done
so… why is there poverty? and the right wing holds that this is an ethical/moral
problem…and thus we fail… because we have failed to understand the problem…

poverty is the result of several actions and inactions…
one of those inactions is in the case of education… we must
equally educate everyone… not just those who can afford it or
happen to live in an area with good education… but that means something
else is going on… we refuse to increase the federal minimum wage… which
keeps people in poverty… we see and act on poverty in ethical terms
and not in terms of “what can be done”…so education is one step,
the increasing the minimum wage is another step, no longer treating minorities
as criminals with the crime of being black or being brown…prison reform will go a long
way toward removing people off of poverty…

the war on minorities that this country has engaged with since the Raygun era,
must end… we cannot treat those who look different or pray differently or
are encased into institutional poverty as criminals… as we do today…

we don’t actually believe or work on the basic and fundamental line
in the declaration of independence…

“that all men are create equal”

I wish I could say we offer up at least lip service to that line, but frankly
we don’t even do that…we don’t even pretend to treat people as equals…
we work, in institutional ways, to keep minorities, women, people of color,
to remain in poverty and despair

it is us, America as a whole that has refused to be moral or ethical…
we have failed in being moral/ethical human beings… if we fail to
hold up our end of the promise of the declaration, to treat all people,

“that all men/people are created equal”…

and I mean that in a legal, systematic way… we must treat everyone equal
or no one is treated equal…

Kropotkin

Complain I didn’t give a rational argument against Foucault, and then ignore my rational argument against Foucault. Is it because you’re intellectually dishonest, or because you really just can’t understand anything I just said? Even the bold bits? I highlighted them to indicate I was trying to be as simple as possible.

There is no war on minorities. Now that I see the verbiage you use, I can see you might actually be incapable of understanding anything I just said. Materialist. Dialectic. Of. History. I explained to you what this tool is and how it is used as a weapon to produce concepts like ‘patriarchy’, ‘systemic racism’, etc.

You wanted an unemotional argument, I gave you one.
[size=85]

No. Just stop right there. I gave you a perfectly rational rationale. His entire basis is deconstructing the conceptual distinction of reason and madness (through the use of a tool called the materialist dialectic of history, which Marx first developed by inverting the Hegelian propaedeutic: I go over that in the three self-excerpts at the end of this post; suffice to say that all Leftists, in one way or another, use this same inverted dialectic to level the field of discourse and make actual dialogue impossible, just as critical race theorists use it to transform the idea of racism into something so nebulous it can be applied to everyone and everything) to the point that neither mean anything anymore and have become entirely ambiguous, and then he formulates the argument that every possible law or moral evaluation amounts to an unjustifiable imposition of logos and reason on human nature. He rejects the idea that there can be any real social function in a law like don’t fuck kids because of how he’s framed this polarity between what he calls madness and reason, and it’s a polarity that no longer makes any sense. It’s like how modern Leftists define racism in such a nebulous way that it allows them to call everyone racist for whatever reason they want, that is what deconstructionism, is. It’s not my problem if you can’t fucking get it, but don’t tell me I didn’t, immediately after leaving my jokes, provide an objective statement about it. This shit is pissing me off, fuck off. Of course, if you accept Foucault’s deconstruction of ‘reason’ as a concept, you can just tell me that anything I possibly say is an irrational imposition of logos on discourse, reducing all dialogue to a mindless game of power.

^ Foucault inherited this from Marx, who did it first. His concept of the species-essence was a deconstruction of the modes of capitalist relation which allowed him to formulate a specious argument in which all division of labor, like that exampled by industrial society, was an arbitrary and therefor unjustifiable imposition of power. I elaborate this at great length in my own books.

As Marx’s use of this materialist dialectic deconstructed and rendered illegible all legitimate social hierarchy and division of labor, so Foucault’s renders unreadable all legitimate distinction between immoral and moral acts, even on obvious issues like child predation being evil, just as the feminist use of the materialist dialectic between male-female relations reduces all gender discourse to an omnipresent patriarchy within which it is not possible to say anything at all without being branded a defender of the patriarchy. Do you not see what this “philosophy” has done? It has turned all discourse into a game of power and made philosophy impossible, made moral values impossible to delimit, even on issues we all instinctively know are wrong.

So as Marx applied this inverted dialectic to master-slave distinction,* so Foucault to madness-reason, so critical gender theorists to man-woman, etc.-- all to the same end; to the end of making the discourse of the Logos unreadable, thereby reducing all dialogue to a game of power and making it impossible to defend any laws or moral values as anything more than arbitrary impositions of power, even moral values as obvious as ‘sex with kids is wrong’.

  • The ‘class struggle’[/size]

There’s no emotion or ad hominem in any of that.