It seems to me that there has to be a great deal of repression involved; certainly the cowardice, fear factor, leftists don’t move out of their comfort zones, is enough to account for a great deal of ignorance, but I don’t think it fully adds up to the pure lies that they spit and swallow.
What is it - is it malice? Is it a conscious or a subconscious malice? How does it feel to do that lefty lying they all are adept at?
Do they have a form of agency? Are they accountable? Or are they pure “happiness machines”?
Note a few actual contexts in which leftists are seen by you as being dishonest. In particular, situations in which leftists and rightists employ opposing political prejudices.
Noting in turn what you might insist would reflect an honest assessment.
Also, if you are inclined, discuss how, in your view, honesty and dishonesty [regarding anyone] are understood by those who have a positive view of astrology. Finally, given how you understand them in regard to value ontology.
Again, not in intellectual contraptions like the one above, but in descriptions of actual human interactions in which honesty becomes an important factor.
Somewhere perhaps between Kant and the sociopath.
In either a God or a No God world.
Or, sure, just shrug this off as me “hijacking the thread”.
K: Iam said it best, dishonest about what? and, and who gets to decide if
they are “dishonest”?
what are your standards for deciding they are “dishonest”… I mean, is telling
the truth about IQ45, considered to be “dishonest”? If I don’t espouse the party line
as told by the "trump/GOP party, then am I being "dishonest?
I think for the most part PACs are dishonest. I’m not a member of a PAC and don’t support any. For a PAC it doesn’t seem to matter on which side you swing to lie. Now are they conscious of it? It would seem most likely.
Now is Trump conscious of his lies? What is the count up to now?
I particularly love the one about the revolutionists taking over airports.
Some of it is just fear of seeing themselves naked for who they really are. To be honest with who they are would be mean acknowledging that they are human beings that are prone to naturally discriminate and make judgements.
I think on a lower level, since this social conditioning has been going on for so long, a lot of them don’t think they’re lying. But there are a lot of fairly intelligent and artistic people on the left who damn well know what they’re doing. And I think there’s a subconscious or conscious desire to just see the world burn (so they pretend to religiously support BLM or whatever chaos causing movement is popular)… Like their just egging on the chaos and destruction while they pretend to be all for justice and peace… Although one could say the same about the right egging on the Evangelists… Oddly though, I find the BLM crowd to be more religiously devoted to their cause than the Evangelists are to Jesus.
“Are they accountable?”
That’s a great question. They only feel accountable to their own community… which is a community of nothing really (a community of no gods and weak friendships)…which is why they so quickly devour and spit out their own.
Whereas being accountable FOR you friends TO your god is the heart of … everything… but that’s a story for another time…
“How does it feel to do that lefty lying they all are adept at?”
That raises another interesting question… If the left is incapable of honesty, are they also incapable of telling great lies?
The poet Alfred Douglas said the mark of great poetry was style and sincerity. Does this mean leftists are also incapable of great art?
Do you have close family members that are leftists? I do. It’s fucked up to see someone you’ve known since childhood become so radicalized (and willing to betray you for brownie points with their leftist buddies)
I think it likely a greater infraction to not be conscious of your lies. >dishonest< sort of requires knowing what is honest. I don’t think Trump knows what that is.
So why is all of the left of center characterized as the “far” left by the GOP?
And why do I think of the “Jerry Falwell Jr.s” when someone mentions god.
It mostly has to do with the complete Selfishness and Solipsistic mindset that a young child has. You can punish a young child for misbehaving, but it doesn’t understand why it is being punished, or the consequences of its own actions. It has a lack of Self-Consciousness and Morality. This lack is seen in “adult” Liberal-Lefty-Marxists, etc, because they have never grown to acquire a strong sense of Morality (Responsibility) nor have they took steps toward Selflessness. They are not living for others (despite being “social justice warriors”, complete lie). They are only-selfish, and unaware of their own selfishness. Furthermore, they cannot locate the causes of their own actions, nor the consequences, making it too easy and automatic to blame-others for the negatives produced by their own habits.
Become Self-aware and Self-conscious is the first step out of Liberal selfishness, and toward Adulthood/Responsibility/Morality (which is correctly deemed a ‘conservative’ mindset).
The first step out and above Liberal-Leftism, and childhood, is admitting to yourself your own selfishness: “Yes, I am selfish, and yes selfishness is sinful – how can I become more selfless or how is being selfless possible?”
When I really put energy, effort, and work into these questions and answers, Religion, Christianity, Morality, Spirituality all opened up for me. I had long been critical of Mass Religion, and specifically Judæo-Christianity for blind-faith. But after deconstructing moral-philosophy, I began to understand, that Selflessness is perhaps the most powerful question and behavior of all time. Selflessness raises Man up from animal, and into Human. Because without a deep connection and alignment between person to person (“Love”), there is no “humanity”, no specie, and no collective-aim. An individual person cannot achieve much in life, without others helping. Almost all human greatness, perhaps All of it completely, comes from a collection of people.
One person’s actions, even thoughts and beliefs, affects others, positively and negatively. Because of this, the ‘selfish’ and solipsistic mindset is very dangerous. People keep making the same mistakes, over and over and over again, and continually blame others, even though they are the Cause and Source of their own calamity and hatred of life (Resentiment/Nihilism).
Or… it could be a subconscious allegiance, to a pre-inherited Leftist mindset of an ancestral past, that has become innate over time.
People here are jumping off the Leftist-horse in their droves, from the realisation of what the Left (here) are really about and what they are doing… they are penalising their own voters, in an attempt to fund their anti-resident initiatives, and so causing those residents to jump ship.
Yes. It very much appears that this is the case with most of then. Rare is the leftist who dares to utter a personal judgment, one that he didn’t get from his ideological coaches, his tv, his professor, his youtube inspiration, ,his newspapers. A leftist is in general very much in love with newspapers, finding them the summit of culture and taking salivating pride in taking a New York Times from the rack in the morning.
This is a very good point.
Such passion is recognizable strongly in promethean, here - I would not consider him a true leftist however since he is actually honest about his destructive motives half of the time. In truth it makes him more of a fatalistic anarchist; which is more akin to an evangelist than to a true leftist.
So - they feel accountable to the idea of a community. The actual community itself can go to hell (or Portland).
Great point.
Those that rule them are surely capable of such lies - the whole of mainstream media is an orchestrated lie so refined and tailored to the public that it could be seen as a great project of art. It very much seems they have taken the motto “the greater the lie, the more it will be believed”, as a guide.
Look however what happens; we see that the left is divided quite absolutely in two camps; the artist-liars and the believers.
Thus, the left could never be united; it relies on internal division between architects and inhabitants of the ideology.
It seems to me that in art, leftism finds its only redemption. Because they are so natural at lying, they are good at spinning narratives and, I suppose because shame, repression and all kinds of thwarting complexes are absent when spinning fiction for art, somehow, their art is more honest than their philosophies.
The Wire, for example, is I think pretty great art, and made by a leftist, who is utterly moronic politically as he pretends to protest for Baltimore but supports the regime that has led to its decay for 53 (was it?) years as the lovely lady pointed out recently.
He manages to lay the blame for the decay of the city with the party which hasn’t come close to being elected into office for half a century.
And yet he makes great art on that lie.
Actually, the show features a quote to the effect of that precise point;
“If its a lie, we fight on that lie”.
Do I! I come from the central Communist family of the Netherlands. I grew up knowing literally only leftists. 95 percent of these people still are leftists. The viciousness of their betrayal is so ugly that I am rattled by it every time I think about it. Ive been emancipating myself from their hideous abuse ever since I was able to get a few years on a different continent and come to my senses.
Im not too sure about that, because the ideology of leftism is basically antinatalist if you look at it - abortion, transgenderism, social distancing for children, etc - ; it is a disservice to the ancestors. I think leftism, just as mainstream Freudianism, is a symptom of the self-hatred of certain swaths of human life. It acts on ostensibly false logics in order to serve a will to self-annihilation.
This wouldn’t be a horrible thing in itself if not for the following fucked up reality; the self-hating human can only justify his self-destruction if he blames his self hatred on someone else whom he can take down with him. Otherwise the feeling of the heroism in the destruction is absent and he doesn’t dare to persevere in it. Instead of abandoning the destruction, he creates a fantasy which justifies it, because to abandon the destruction would be to accept to live with oneself, which the thwarted human nature can not do.
It is a privilege to have the strength for that process.
I would not even absolutize it like that - simply to know that to serve is the best thing one can do is enough -
to serve what, which values? This is the entrance for me to religion - I do not serve in general but to specific tastes, essentially - to my ancestral virtues. I seek to allow others to live in and with these virtues. Indirectly this may serve all of mankind, but when in the past I tried to serve universally, I mostly served inefficiently and often the wrong people.
This is another thing I found out on my path of service - a lot of people are truly wicked and it isn’t sufficient to just ignore them. A lot of people aren’t merely deluded, they are actively out to harm and they believe in codes that justify this.
Its not just Marxism and its dictatorship of the proletariat, though vengeance cults are never far off when you’re studying the causes of systemic aggression.
Yes, it leads ultimately to psychosis.
Leftist society could not exist if not for its capacity to harbour and keep alive psychotics by giving them high functions which go at the cost of sane humans who can carry a lot more burden.
Under leftism the sane carry the insane on their shoulders because they are unable to be as violent as the insane and respected each other (the sane) too much to get on the path of total destruction.
Eventually this society collapses one way or the other, as eventually the sane have spent their strength, and the insane are left to fend for themselves and that will quickly lead to the need for, I imagine, cannibalism. I hope we wont get to see leftism in these advanced stages of Marxian enlightenment.
Well they’re not completely always the whole cause. This is also something the Christian recognizes - one must fight for the oppressed. But those who in todays world claim to be oppressed usually have no idea what it means to be on a train to a slaughtering camp or work under the whip of ones owner - I don’t believe the misery of the actual slave was due to himself. I believe the misery of the people who vote for the slave-owners party is due to themselves. The Democratic Party is a pathology of disenfranchised slaveowners.
Yes. the boomer mentality basically. Living off the spoils of WWII, in perfect ignorance of truth or consequence, in wealth and with much progeny, which they teach to love themselves except for the part that is truthful, critical, conservative, natural.
The children and grandchildren of boomers are duped, they grow up in an environment where there is little to no nourishment for conservative, life-building instincts, and only reward for self-gratification and self-aggrandizing at the cost of, ironically, the proletariat. (no wonder then the way the actual working class of the us is voting now that they have the opportunity, now that there is a real candidate)
Thats am important point. They can not locate the causes of their own actions;
neither from the past, nor in any values; because the ideological value hierarchy simply contradicts Maslow on several levels. Many real values they nave, their real needs, are being denied. So they live in perpetual disprivilege and are too hypoed up with hormones to every come to a sane thought process, they never attain lucidity before themselves. They’re victims - but that doesn’t make them innocents. And they are not victims of the people they slander and try to destroy, but of their parents and grandparents and their professors and kindergarten wardens, their therapists, their sources of information about the world - they are truly barraged with anti natural propaganda from all directions.
Life finds its way though in very primal ways which form their own tyrannies. But that is a story for another place.
You can trust a conservative to act in accordance with his self interest, which he has correctly identified as being in line with the interest of his lineage and of the ones who share his conservative, real-value oriented mindset. A conservative mindset is as a temple to life.
Naturally, the old GOP wasn’t really very conservative at all - our current leader is the first truly conservative one Ive known. And ironically at the same time the most liberal in the old French sense of the word; the least Puritanical.
The only way out, as I see it, is a new wave of Asceticism and New American Religion, a “Post-Christianity”, an updated version. The credit has run-out. Today and tomorrow’s generation have squandered the reserve of wealth built and consumed by the Baby-boomers and their parents’ Greatest Generation. Now, the wealth is gone, replaced by debt. This Century is going to be calamity after calamity. However the standard-of-living is still very high. In order to preserve any previous form of Western greatness and power, will require Sacrifice and Moral Virtue. Of course, average people are not leaders in this, but merely followers. The looney-liberal-left are prime examples of the results of endless Hedonism.
In this age of Squalor, only those actively purging themselves of Post-modern evils, will thrive in the coming struggles. The writing is on the wall, already…
The West is still “pro-freedom” and “anti-slave”, but, the necessary response to this is a New Age Slavery. This “Zoomer” generation is so mentally and spiritually weak, that any leader who comes along with a semblance of strength, individuality, and independence, with Vision and Ideal, any Goal, will attract a mass of slavish followers. There is a deep craving for Leadership, of any kind, because it has become so rare. This is the cultural degradation and decay. Anybody promising new cultural opportunity, race, sex, and class do not matter, will Dominate the 21st Century. In the decade, we will witness the rise of a new kind of ‘cultural leadership’.
Anybody who can offer uniqueness and individuality will rise up, because, these are becoming rarer and rarer by the year, by the month, by the day. The “zoomer” generation is desperate for any kind of leadership that is relevant and adaptive to the Post-modern cultural climate.
For example, we can already see signs of new cultural leaders who are deemed “good” and others who are deemed “evil”. What they have in common though, is a desire for individuality and independence, to separate themselves from the mass of followers and sheep. The narratives are clashing, and it has already become violent.
