Philosophy For Us Dummies

[Arcturus Descending]

No.

Really? Despite the barbaric and ignominious things which some humans have done?

Do you really feel that all humans deserve the same - no matter what they've done?

[Artimas]

You don't honestly see a secure future do you - with or without a god?
We're like in a leaky boat without a paddle.

How has your question been faring in here?

Nah, more like a child with explosives that can destroy a planet.

[Artimas]

Can science cause kindness? Can philosophy? We look to religions for these answers to the leaky boat syndrome. In science we have split the atom and spliced the gene. How has this helped the average person to become kind? In philosophy we have dismissed analytics in favor of ontology. How has this helped the average person to become kind?

Kindness isn't reached through religion or science. It is reached through morality and spirituality. One can be religious and not spiritual. Perhaps it has to do with some science though, but 0 religion.


It is better to witness the truth and be kind, than to live a lie and be forced to be kind for a deal.
Once people see that all is one and one is all it changes them, forever. But people like to split it right in two. Silly monkeys.

Like this.

[Ierrellus]

No.

Really? Despite the barbaric and ignominious things which some humans have done?

Do you really feel that all humans deserve the same - no matter what they've done?

I'm not the judge.

[Arcturus Descending]

No.

Really? Despite the barbaric and ignominious things which some humans have done?

Do you really feel that all humans deserve the same - no matter what they've done?

I'm not the judge.

With all due respect to you, Ierrellus, if people had taken that kind of a laissez faire attitude, that kind of a so-called christian attitude, I would imagine that the Jews and their decendents would still be held in the concentration camps. I would imagine that this world would be far more insane than it is now.

A man rapes and murders a little girl and what? You feel that that man has the same rights as innocent people do?
If life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - oh, and health too, is to be given and hoped for to all, no matter what, then what kind of morality and ethics would there be in the world?

We've been given a mind, intelligence, consciousness in order to make judgments, to discern, to evaluate.

What kind of human value do we place on the innocent and on existence itself if one is NOT to judge discriminately simply because [i]one does not judge perhaps from a sense of wanting to be good or to feel good ?[/i]

And where does value go when all men are deemed to be treated equally despite their ignoble acts?

[Artimas]

With all due respect to you, Ierrellus, if people had taken that kind of a laissez faire attitude, that kind of a so-called christian attitude, I would imagine that the Jews and their decendents would still be held in the concentration camps. I would imagine that this world would be far more insane than it is now.

A man rapes and murders a little girl and what? You feel that that man has the same rights as innocent people do?
If life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - oh, and health too, is to be given and hoped for to all, no matter what, then what kind of morality and ethics would there be in the world?

We've been given a mind, intelligence, consciousness in order to make judgments, to discern, to evaluate.

What kind of human value do we place on the innocent and on existence itself if one is NOT to judge discriminately simply because [i]one does not judge perhaps from a sense of wanting to be good or to feel good ?[/i]

And where does value go when all men are deemed to be treated equally despite their ignoble acts?

I believe people have equal rights too. Is the man to blame for murder? Only a corrupt society may create corrupt people. People aren't just born into murderers, it's the influence that needs to be looked at.. why - Why did this person murder. What - What caused this person to murder. We need to look at whatever influences people to do these things, not the people themselves. It's like a debate, we focus on the issues, not the people.

Just because we have a mind, intelligence and consciousness does not mean it cannot be influenced negatively or corrupted to do horrible things. A creative mind can also become dark... and that is one thing you do not want, a creative dark mind.

[Arcturus Descending]

Artimas,

I believe people have equal rights too.

But do you believe that a rapist and a murderer deserve the same rights as the innocent do, those who have never harmed or deliberately harmed someone?
Do you really in your heart of hearts believe that a rapist who has murdered a child deserves to be happy and healthy as Ierrellus said?

Is the man to blame for murder?

Legally speaking, if he has been deemed "insane" by the courts through the evidence and judged/discerned by a psychiatrist, no, then he is not to blame.
But if he willingly committed the murder for whatever reason he felt justified it, then he is to blame - at least in my book he is. There are degrees of guilt of course under certain circumstances.

Only a corrupt society may create corrupt people

.

I see. So, for you, corrupt politicians and rapists, murderers, embezzlers, pedophiles, et cetera, deserve to be forgiven - we are to treat them kindly because society has corrupted them? What about those who have not allowed their selves to become corrupt? Yes, we are all capable of becoming corrupted if we are not aware of it.

People aren't just born into murderers, it's the influence that needs to be looked at.. why - Why did this person murder. What - What caused this person to murder. We need to look at whatever influences people to do these things, not the people themselves. It's like a debate, we focus on the issues, not the people.

I think that sometimes people are born to become murderers. I'm not speaking of fate here. I'm speaking genes, DNA - that kind of influence. But does this mean that we coddle them or allow them to go free?
I do agree with the second half of what you said and that's what the psychiatrist is for.
Except for - we focus on the issue but that means that we especially focus on the person. We focus on both.

Just because we have a mind, intelligence and consciousness does not mean it cannot be influenced negatively or corrupted to do horrible things.

I already pointed to that above. We need to be aware of that kind of influence. Some people just enjoy being influenced by the dark side, they want to go into that dark side. They either are or are not aware of their daemons.

A creative mind can also become dark... and that is one thing you do not want, a creative dark mind.

Any mind can become dark if it doesn't seek for the light. I personallly prefer a nice balance of both though I lean toward the light. But we are also capable of knowing ourselves through "seeing" that dark side which could actually work for the good if it is harmonized and reined in.

[Arcturus Descending]

Artimas,

Just to qualify here, Ierrellus didn't actually say that a rapist who murders a child deserves to be happy and healthy but he did say that everyone deserve to be and that he doesn't judge.

If judgment and discernment - and yes, making individual judgments about people, were not sane and logical behaviors, we wouldn't have a court system and all the world would be in total chaos - perhaps -- and perhaps there would far less of a world. But wouldn't that help world population. Just a little daemon came out. Sorry.

[Artimas]

Artimas,

I believe people have equal rights too.

But do you believe that a rapist and a murderer deserve the same rights as the innocent do, those who have never harmed or deliberately harmed someone?
Do you really in your heart of hearts believe that a rapist who has murdered a child deserves to be happy and healthy as Ierrellus said?

Is the man to blame for murder?

Legally speaking, if he has been deemed "insane" by the courts through the evidence and judged/discerned by a psychiatrist, no, then he is not to blame.
But if he willingly committed the murder for whatever reason he felt justified it, then he is to blame - at least in my book he is. There are degrees of guilt of course under certain circumstances.

Only a corrupt society may create corrupt people

.

I see. So, for you, corrupt politicians and rapists, murderers, embezzlers, pedophiles, et cetera, deserve to be forgiven - we are to treat them kindly because society has corrupted them? What about those who have not allowed their selves to become corrupt? Yes, we are all capable of becoming corrupted if we are not aware of it.

People aren't just born into murderers, it's the influence that needs to be looked at.. why - Why did this person murder. What - What caused this person to murder. We need to look at whatever influences people to do these things, not the people themselves. It's like a debate, we focus on the issues, not the people.

I think that sometimes people are born to become murderers. I'm not speaking of fate here. I'm speaking genes, DNA - that kind of influence. But does this mean that we coddle them or allow them to go free?
I do agree with the second half of what you said and that's what the psychiatrist is for.
Except for - we focus on the issue but that means that we especially focus on the person. We focus on both.

Just because we have a mind, intelligence and consciousness does not mean it cannot be influenced negatively or corrupted to do horrible things.

I already pointed to that above. We need to be aware of that kind of influence. Some people just enjoy being influenced by the dark side, they want to go into that dark side. They either are or are not aware of their daemons.

A creative mind can also become dark... and that is one thing you do not want, a creative dark mind.

Any mind can become dark if it doesn't seek for the light. I personallly prefer a nice balance of both though I lean toward the light. But we are also capable of knowing ourselves through "seeing" that dark side which could actually work for the good if it is harmonized and reined in.

The innocent people could have what a murderer is lacking. People in their lives that showed empathy and love, a 'normal' life. Any murderer is insane i'd say. If he wanted to kill someone so bad he could join the army, I hear they get plenty of killing. The reason they don't and can't, is because they're insane. Regardless of what a legal system states. Remember this is the same legal system that puts people in prison for life for growing a plant and then lets murderers out again within what, 10 years? I don't think they have the common sense or qualifications to determine who is and isn't insane.

The murderer isn't happy already, so what can be taken from someone who already isn't happy that does these things. It's apparent as well that they are not healthy. Murder isn't healthy. So both of those things that you mention they are already not, so what is the difference in giving them equal right when they will not be satisfied anyways?

There is nothing to forgive with them, it's illness of the mind. Could even be chemical imbalance. A corrupt legal system, a corrupt economy, a corrupt health/nutritional value system, a corrupt media and entertainment industry. What more do you need that should or could be corrupted to create a corrupt person? That's near all aspects of life and then people wonder why psychopaths show up. We have desensitization to violence and sex. We have disgusting foods served cheaper than health products. We have a corrupt as hell legal system which I mentioned above, we have a corrupt economy and investments in what doesn't matter over what matters.

We have the most incarcerated than any other place on the planet. See the proof is right there, we focus on creating more criminals than more healthy bright individuals.

I also don't think genes create actions. They partially create personality and every personality has it's dark or bright side. It's a matter of influence on which side can be brought out.

I prefer darkness. I am no giddy happy fool, but I don't go around killing people. I am aware of the consequences. I am aware of what life is and if I hurt another I only hurt myself. I know of the oneness. Common people don't know of the oneness, they see separation. They don't care who they hurt because they don't realize it's them as a different entity, goes for all life. An animal abuser is the same as a murderer.

[Ierrellus]

I'm not the judge of mankind in general or of abstract social situations. I served jury duty twice, so I had to make a judgment in specific cases. In each instance I weighed the arguments carefully and came to the decision I wish could be for me in similar situations.

[turtle]

I am taking a vacation from ILP

[Arcturus Descending]

Artimas,

I've decided not even to read what I wrote before. This is another day and who knows but that I may change my mind.

The innocent people could have what a murderer is lacking. People in their lives that showed empathy and love, a 'normal' life

.

Maybe what a psychopath or sociopath is lacking. When can a murderer be considered a murderer? When he commits a murder? One murder? Does that mean that he is lacking in empathy and love? though perhaps his life in the instant he murders may not be quite normal. None of us are actually that innocent, Artimas.

Any murderer is insane i'd say. If he wanted to kill someone so bad he could join the army, I hear they get plenty of killing. The reason they don't and can't, is because they're insane. Regardless of what a legal system states. Remember this is the same legal system that puts people in prison for life for growing a plant and then lets murderers out again within what, 10 years? I don't think they have the common sense or qualifications to determine who is and isn't insane.

Some of us are insane and we're not murerers. lol What do they call insanity? Repeating the same behavior again and again and expecting different results. Aside from that, someone who kills may have killed in a moment of insanity. Doesn't necessarily mean that they are insane.
Joining the armed forces for normal men and women is not about wanting to kill - it's basically about wanting to serve their country, they serve in the name of freedom and human rights, even if at times they've been given a patriotic pack of lies - sometimes.

I think maybe you're being a bit hyperbolic there - life emprisonment for growing a plant - drugs. But I do agree with you in part that our legal system needs some changes. I may be mistaken but I think embezzlers get more time than rapists do.

The murderer isn't happy already, so what can be taken from someone who already isn't happy that does these things. It's apparent as well that they are not healthy. Murder isn't healthy. So both of those things that you mention they are already not, so what is the difference in giving them equal right when they will not be satisfied anyways?

You may be mistaking me in the above with someone else. I don't think that I said that everyone deserve equal right. Where would the justice and fairness be in that?

There is nothing to forgive with them, it's illness of the mind

.

Not everyone human being would be that rational if I want to even use that word. If someone murders someone you love, there most certainly would still be something to forgive this person for. They have robbed you of something/someone precious. Your logical mind realizes that the person was insane even if for an instant but the emotional mind feels otherwise. The way I look at it, those who are too quick to forgive are actually in denial - perhaps not wanting to allow themselves to experience real suffering.

We have desensitization to violence and sex.

Unfortunately, this is true. I agree. We hear so much of it, we see so much of it, we read so much of it that it becomes almost second nature. It is nature but we begin to believe that it is supposed to be such a natural and normal part of life. We adapt to it so readily without questioning "What's going on here"?

.... we focus on creating more criminals than more healthy bright individuals.

How would you change that?

I also don't think genes create actions. They partially create personality and every personality has it's dark or bright side. It's a matter of influence on which side can be brought out.

No, they don't directly create actions but I think that they greatly influence behavior and yes personality unless we realize how susceptible we can be and how at their mercy we can be without cognitive thinking, self-awareness, discipline, et cetera.

I prefer darkness

.

Do you mean that the light bothers you?

I am no giddy happy fool, but I don't go around killing people.

I'm glad to hear it.

I am aware of the consequences. I am aware of what life is and if I hurt another I only hurt myself

.
"Seeing" consequences is extremely important I think. Acting ethically is important. I have found that sometimes in order to "see' future consequences, we really have to think ahead a few steps, question our motives, examine our intent and try to realize how this or that can affect not only ourselves but others. Sometimes it may even be kinder at times to not be too kind, in a sense.

Hurt yourself in which way - having to accept the consequences or having compassion for those you've hurt?


I

know of the oneness. Common people don't know of the oneness, they see separation. They don't care who they hurt because they don't realize it's them as a different entity, goes for all life. An animal abuser is the same as a murderer.

Just a question here? Do you think that when we see others as "common" that we create separation then? I'm just wondering.

Well, I despise people who abuse animals but i don't know if I would call them murderers unless they murdered the animal. Maybe you mean murderer here in a difference sense?

[Ultimate Philosophy 1001]

What do they call insanity?

Insanity is the process of Arcturus's descending, as in she descended from the heavens, but not fell - in fact she is from the planet of desolation, Mercury, but she is no shedragon, she actually resembles more like a blob of goo.

Repeating the same behavior again and again and expecting different results. Aside from that, someone who kills may have killed in a moment of insanity. Doesn't necessarily mean that they are insane.

Ah, the typical quote from Einstein, who didn't know any better, as do you. Insanity is actually behaving in a manner in conflict with the organisms goals. So the large portion of humanity is both insane, and not human, because hardly anything they do is rational or logical, and they act like animals, which is a state in conflict with the organisms natural ordering - insanity. Oddly enough many forms of their insanity, usually by means of ridiculous laws and politics, prevents them fulfilling their animal needs, which in turn makes them even less human than they were before. Because of this, now they don't just have unfilled animal needs, but they actually function as an animal too.

those who are too quick to forgive are actually in denial - perhaps not wanting to allow themselves to experience real suffering.

Couldn't agree more, that is why I don't forgive anyone, especially not filthy humans, and certainly not Arcturus's, who are guilty of being inferior.

How would you change that?

Change genetics, obviously, but you people never listen, because your heads so far where the sun don't shine. I give you EMC2 but that is too straightforward and makes too much sense to you, so you constantly look for alternatives.

I also don't think genes create actions. They partially create personality and every personality has it's dark or bright side. It's a matter of influence on which side can be brought out.

No, they don't directly create actions but I think that they greatly influence behavior and yes personality unless we realize how susceptible we can be and how at their mercy we can be without cognitive thinking, self-awareness, discipline, et cetera.

Actually, genetics are causally responsible for actions, and you're a moron. Saying genetics does not directly create actions, that's like saying computer hardware and it's operating system does not directly create actions, and only downloaded programs create actions.

I prefer darkness

.

Do you mean that the light bothers you?

Here we go again with the stupid light and dark analogies.

[Arcturus Descending]

What do they call insanity?

Insanity is the process of Arcturus's descending, as in she descended from the heavens, but not fell - in fact she is from the planet of desolation, Mercury, but she is no shedragon, she actually resembles more like a blob of goo.

Repeating the same behavior again and again and expecting different results. Aside from that, someone who kills may have killed in a moment of insanity. Doesn't necessarily mean that they are insane.

Ah, the typical quote from Einstein, who didn't know any better, as do you. Insanity is actually behaving in a manner in conflict with the organisms goals. So the large portion of humanity is both insane, and not human, because hardly anything they do is rational or logical, and they act like animals, which is a state in conflict with the organisms natural ordering - insanity. Oddly enough many forms of their insanity, usually by means of ridiculous laws and politics, prevents them fulfilling their animal needs, which in turn makes them even less human than they were before. Because of this, now they don't just have unfilled animal needs, but they actually function as an animal too.

those who are too quick to forgive are actually in denial - perhaps not wanting to allow themselves to experience real suffering.

Couldn't agree more, that is why I don't forgive anyone, especially not filthy humans, and certainly not Arcturus's, who are guilty of being inferior.

How would you change that?

Change genetics, obviously, but you people never listen, because your heads so far where the sun don't shine. I give you EMC2 but that is too straightforward and makes too much sense to you, so you constantly look for alternatives.

I also don't think genes create actions. They partially create personality and every personality has it's dark or bright side. It's a matter of influence on which side can be brought out.

No, they don't directly create actions but I think that they greatly influence behavior and yes personality unless we realize how susceptible we can be and how at their mercy we can be without cognitive thinking, self-awareness, discipline, et cetera.

Actually, genetics are causally responsible for actions, and you're a moron. Saying genetics does not directly create actions, that's like saying computer hardware and it's operating system does not directly create actions, and only downloaded programs create actions.

I prefer darkness

.

Do you mean that the light bothers you?

Here we go again with the stupid light and dark analogies.

????????????????

[surreptitious57]

I thought it was Fornication Under Carnal Knowledge

Almost right because it is For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge

[Arcturus Descending]

I thought it was Fornication Under Carnal Knowledge

Almost right because it is For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge

Or Fornication under Consent of the King.
That one makes more sense to me since he was probably the only one who was allowed to do it - with anyone he wanted to and when he wanted to - no matter who they were, married, unmarried.... It was his right and authority given to him by god.lol

[Ierrellus]

I don't know about you, but I'm fed up on having to watch some video in order to understand what a poster wishes to say.
Put it in your own words, and I'll pay attention.

[Ierrellus]

Come back, turtle. You are missed!

[Ierrellus]

Pilgrim_Tom is the best newbie I've seen in ten years of posting. He is honest and understanding.