Philosophy For Us Dummies

This is the place to shave off that long white beard and stop being philosophical; a forum for members to just talk like normal human beings.

Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Ierrellus » Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:30 pm

turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:Subjective and objective are like yin and yang. They cannot be separated. Probably personal and impersonal cannot be separated either. It is only when we communicate that we can come to an agreement as to what constitutes a fact. Hydrogen is an atom is a fact for the time being. So I'm simply saying that there is no objective fact devoid of subjective interpretation; and what we consider fact today may be considered fiction tomorrow. Our learning is a process.


how much chance ier is atomic theory of matter going to change....it works....it has been tested....what are the odds..

Ever hear of the particle vs wave controversy? String theory?
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby turtle » Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:48 pm

Ierrellus wrote:
turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:Subjective and objective are like yin and yang. They cannot be separated. Probably personal and impersonal cannot be separated either. It is only when we communicate that we can come to an agreement as to what constitutes a fact. Hydrogen is an atom is a fact for the time being. So I'm simply saying that there is no objective fact devoid of subjective interpretation; and what we consider fact today may be considered fiction tomorrow. Our learning is a process.


how much chance ier is atomic theory of matter going to change....it works....it has been tested....what are the odds..

Ever hear of the particle vs wave controversy? String theory?


ier do you think that a hydrogen atom as science has shown is going to change soon...one proton and most common atom in universe...
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Ierrellus » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:09 pm

What we know of fact is what we can predict accurately. 2 hydrogen atoms + 1 oxygen atom = water (H2O). I'm saying that it's a bit more complex than simply saying an atom exists. The sun converts hydrogen into helium.
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Ierrellus » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:09 pm

duplicate
Last edited by Ierrellus on Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby turtle » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:28 pm

us dummies---------------I just saw a spectacular u-tube of 58 minutes....it was the story of nick juvicic....the guy
with no arms/no legs/no worries....it says a lot about healthy living....
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby turtle » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:25 pm

turtle wrote:us dummies---------------I just saw a spectacular u-tube of 58 minutes....it was the story of nick juvicic....the guy
with no arms/no legs/no worries....it says a lot about healthy living....


the guy talks about accepting yourself as is....
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Ierrellus » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:08 pm

turtle wrote:
turtle wrote:us dummies---------------I just saw a spectacular u-tube of 58 minutes....it was the story of nick juvicic....the guy
with no arms/no legs/no worries....it says a lot about healthy living....


the guy talks about accepting yourself as is....

An amazing story of courage. Apparently, the guy has no severe mental problems. And, yes,his attitude is something we should admire and try for.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby turtle » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:10 pm

Ierrellus wrote:
turtle wrote:
turtle wrote:us dummies---------------I just saw a spectacular u-tube of 58 minutes....it was the story of nick juvicic....the guy
with no arms/no legs/no worries....it says a lot about healthy living....


the guy talks about accepting yourself as is....

An amazing story of courage. Apparently, the guy has no severe mental problems. And, yes,his attitude is something we should admire and try for.


ier---I am glad you responded....this could go on your site also as far as helping people with psych problems...
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby turtle » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:50 pm

us dummies------------I have decided that my greatest FEAR is being left ALONE........
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:50 pm

turtle wrote:us dummies------------I have decided that my greatest FEAR is being left ALONE........


Why?
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby turtle » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:03 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
turtle wrote:us dummies------------I have decided that my greatest FEAR is being left ALONE........


Why?

when I was five my parents fought and threatening divorce....I was very scared...
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:25 pm

turtle wrote:
Arcturus Descending wrote:
turtle wrote:us dummies------------I have decided that my greatest FEAR is being left ALONE........


Why?

when I was five my parents fought and threatening divorce....I was very scared...


But you are not five now little reptile. You are an adult. And you do have yourself. That you have to hold onto but leave behind what really can't hurt you anymore, unless you want it to continue to. We know that there is more than enough to deal with in the present - those moments when "life sucks, then we die" can be best gotten through when we don't drag such a past into our present.
When I was 7 to almost 18, I was in an orphange of about 125 children. Yet that is really being all alone, amidst all of those human beings. Our greatest aloneness can be felt among many and our greatest most wonderful "togetherness" can be felt in solitude.
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby turtle » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:35 pm

when I was five my parents fought and threatening divorce....I was very scared...[/quote]

But you are not five now little reptile. You are an adult. And you do have yourself. That you have to hold onto but leave behind what really can't hurt you anymore, unless you want it to continue to. We know that there is more than enough to deal with in the present - those moments when "life sucks, then we die" can be best gotten through when we don't drag such a past into our present.
When I was 7 to almost 18, I was in an orphange of about 125 children. Yet that is really being all alone, amidst all of those human beings. Our greatest aloneness can be felt among many and our greatest most wonderful "togetherness" can be felt in solitude.[/quote]
arc maybe some things cant be fixed so easily...
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Orbie » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:38 pm

Some people are warned by divorced/ing parents not to panic by a reduction ad absurdum (of marital bliss) by giving personal expressions of value by noteworthy people
To the unfortunate brat victims of divorce.


Some examples are

Ex prez wilson: Splendid Isolationism
Greta Garbo : I want to be alone

They said this in all honesty as a personal view of shattered and perhaps degraded life. No one really means it, and most would be hard pressed to get out of the secret garden of Emily Dickinson, or off the Island of dr. Moreau, especially since they willingly went there. We do want to go back, out of the Cherry Orchard, but there seem to be no exit.

And a time comes around as if tailor made for Colin Wilson's outsider that we can backpack and trudge up a mountain hermetically sealed, staying there in a frightful loneliness Khrishnamurti admires, to devolve from being an Ugly American.

And that time lasts a mere 5 or so years, and the wheel of life mandala like turns a notch, and here we go, we are back, a morphed yuppy hippy, buying stuff at Wal-Mart to keep away the basic fear:


We all come in alone, and go out the same way.


We are after all is said and done, all of us, orphans.

But I wouldn't have dreamed dragon!
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby turtle » Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:11 am

turtle wrote:when I was five my parents fought and threatening divorce....I was very scared...



arcturus replied....
But you are not five now little reptile. You are an adult. And you do have yourself. That you have to hold onto but leave behind what really can't hurt you anymore, unless you want it to continue to. We know that there is more than enough to deal with in the present - those moments when "life sucks, then we die" can be best gotten through when we don't drag such a past into our present.
When I was 7 to almost 18, I was in an orphange of about 125 children. Yet that is really being all alone, amidst all of those human beings. Our greatest aloneness can be felt among many and our greatest most wonderful "togetherness" can be felt in solitude.[/quote]

arc maybe some things cant be fixed so easily...[/quote]

what do you dummies think....
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Moreno » Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:52 am

turtle wrote:
turtle wrote:when I was five my parents fought and threatening divorce....I was very scared...



arcturus replied....
But you are not five now little reptile. You are an adult. And you do have yourself. That you have to hold onto but leave behind what really can't hurt you anymore, unless you want it to continue to. We know that there is more than enough to deal with in the present - those moments when "life sucks, then we die" can be best gotten through when we don't drag such a past into our present.
When I was 7 to almost 18, I was in an orphange of about 125 children. Yet that is really being all alone, amidst all of those human beings. Our greatest aloneness can be felt among many and our greatest most wonderful "togetherness" can be felt in solitude.


arc maybe some things cant be fixed so easily...[/quote]

what do you dummies think....[/quote]
I want to know how people figure out the quantity of emotions and the duration of them, when they suggest someone else has gone on to long and hasn't let go?
How do they know what is natural and how do they measure it?
And what if they are right for themselves, but other people are different. And not different because they 'hang on' to pain, but different in how they process Life, perhaps the depth of their feelings, perhaps their own goals about integration and sense of well being are more thorough - which does not necessarily mean better either, but I see no reason to Think it is worse.
If these people can get over their pain easily, they should be able to get over the fact that other people take more time.
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Ierrellus » Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:36 pm

My sympathy, Turtle. I'm still suffering PTSD from the mind wars. And I'm too old to be doing this.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby turtle » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:38 pm

Ierrellus wrote:My sympathy, Turtle. I'm still suffering PTSD from the mind wars. And I'm too old to be doing this.


we all have our sufferings....
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Ierrellus » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:36 pm

turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:My sympathy, Turtle. I'm still suffering PTSD from the mind wars. And I'm too old to be doing this.


we all have our sufferings....

I do not trust anyone who has not suffered. Suffering hones compassion and empathy in those who are not devestated by it.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby turtle » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:42 pm

Ierrellus wrote:
turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:My sympathy, Turtle. I'm still suffering PTSD from the mind wars. And I'm too old to be doing this.


we all have our sufferings....

I do not trust anyone who has not suffered. Suffering hones compassion and empathy in those who are not devestated by it.


very good ier...
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby MagsJ » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:24 pm

Then what of those who have suffered and still remain assholes? :-?

Turtle.. for those who's grief/suffering is prolonged, I can but only advise that they enjoy life as much as they can whilst under the emotion, or they would be missing out on a better quality of life.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby turtle » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:29 pm

MagsJ wrote:Then what of those who have suffered and still remain assholes?


maybe they will just remain assholes...
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Moreno » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:50 am

Ierrellus wrote:
turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:My sympathy, Turtle. I'm still suffering PTSD from the mind wars. And I'm too old to be doing this.


we all have our sufferings....

I do not trust anyone who has not suffered.
I tend not to either. However....
Suffering hones compassion and empathy in those who are not devestated by it.
It can do just the opposite, lead to coldness, lack of compassion, entitlement attitudes, revenge against everyone or women or men, violence and worse. A lot of serial killers had terrible childhoods.
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Arcturus Descending » Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:38 pm

Moreno,

I want to know how people figure out the quantity of emotions and the duration of them, when they suggest someone else has gone on to long and hasn't let go?

How do they know what is natural and how do they measure it?

I would suspect that that might depend on knowing the person. Would you agree, Moreno, that there ARE people who hold on to pain and anger longer than is necessary to? Sometimes there is a reason for this that goes beyond mental or emotional forebearance. Of course, there are factors involved, like emotional and spiritual support, rational thinking and a strong desire to heal.

And what if they are right for themselves, but other people are different. And not different because they 'hang on' to pain, but different in how they process Life, perhaps the depth of their feelings, perhaps their own goals about integration and sense of well being are more thorough - which does not necessarily mean better either, but I see no reason to Think it is worse.


I do understand what you're saying here but would you agree that within the above, there can be the danger to become masochistic? The will to experience and understand the pain and loss in order to grow and incorporate that within a new transformation can take much longer than necessary. That itself might be a symptom of what needs healing though not always or with all people.

And I do agree that we all have a different threshold for pain/we experience pain and loss different. Much of it really does happen within the brain. We are often at its mercy and so sometimes we have to use our reason to transcend certain things. But who knows, maybe I'm wrong in all of this.

If these people can get over their pain easily, they should be able to get over the fact that other people take more time.

Perhaps if someone can get over their pain that easily, there wasn't much to begin with. It is a process, some are longer and some are shorter. The most important think I think is looking at it in all honestly to see what can be given up and what still needs working on.
No, we cannot rush people who are experiencing pain but if we had it in our power to help them along, to show them that they do not have to drag it along with them for soooooo long a time, wouldn't we try to help them? Let's face it, it is too easy a thing to wallow in our pain and loss when it is not necessary too. We need to use everything within our power, moment by moment and day by day to heal. It is a process. Even the sound of a bird chriping can help us along.
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby turtle » Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:42 pm

happy new year to us dummies....
I have been thinking about intelligent design..
according to Darwin it was apparent design...that is a big difference...
the word intelligent implies a being....that is not science...that is religion
I will stick with science on this evolution theory...argument seems stupid
you are talking about different ways of thinking...
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