philosophy in film

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:29 am

This is a world we don't get to see everyday: An illegal mining operation in Northern China.

Morality here doesn't get much murkier. In other words, not the sort of Communism envisioned by Marx and Mao. But clearly the sort of capitalism many reactionaries would like to see exported over here. Profits way before people.

But even here the grifters can ply their trade. And this con is deadly.

One way or another, the fix is in. It's only a matter of just how illegal it is.

wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_Shaft

trailer: http://youtu.be/a4LmmUEgaAU


BLIND SHAFT [Mang Jing] 2003
Written and directed by Yang Li

Manager: Boss, why bother? Why not just kill the two of them?
Boss: You crazy? We can't take any chances now.
Manager: Just get in touch with your police chief pals.
Boss: No way. These cronies gotta take a hefty cut. A hundred grand ain't enough for them.

...

Boss: It's almost the New Year. A corpse lyin' around isn't auspicious.

...

Song: Next time it's your turn to mourn.

...

Prostitute: Mister, pick a song.
Song: He doesn't know how to sing. He only knows how to fuck you.
Yang: Go to hell! I was in the front row when our commune sang. We sang "Long Live Socialism." Put the song on.
Prostitute: Mister, that song became old-fashioned ages ago.
Song: Let him sing it.
Yang: "Long live socialism, long live socialism/Socialist countries high atop/Reactionaries overthrown/The imperialists run away their tails behind..."
Prostitute: Hey, you hick, those words changed long ago.
Yang: How'd they change?
Prostitute: "The reactionaries were never overthrown/The capitalists came back with their US dollars/Liberating all of China"

...

Yang [to Yuan]: Would I lie to you?

...

Song: You've fucking found a kid!
Yang: I don't care if he is a child, just as long as we make money. You feel bad for him, but who feels bad for you?

...

Boss: Have you been down a mineshaft?
Yang: Yep.
Boss: Why'd you stop working?
Yang: The roof caved in and crushed workers.
Boss: What's a few deaths? One shits after eating. One might die down the shaft. If you're afraid, then don't work here.

...

Boss: Take it or leave it. China has a shortage of everything but people.

...

Song [to Yuan]: You still want to work? Don't work here if you are afraid of death.

...

Yang: Okay, today we'll get him laid and tomorrow we kill him.


Nope. Oh, sweet, sweet irony.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:15 pm

In some respects, it's the standard "love me love me love I'm a liberal" line on corporate America: if only those who run [litigate/advertizse for] Big Business would learn a lesson from the decent hard working man on the street: Can't we all just get along?

Another Bud Fox here.

But this is grasping capitalism on the level in which some claim socialism to be purely scientific. But admittedly this does come a lot closer than most films in the genre to exposing it as a "system." As a political economy. The role of power in other words.

Any time you change lanes you are creating a new set of conditions. And that can set into motion consequences beyond your wildest dreams. But even those less drastic can have a profound effect on your life. And here worlds clash. Worlds each of them are basically oblivious to.

Hey, what can I say: The laws [and "souls"] are for sale.

wiki

Several themes are explored. A recurring instance is irony, a good example being the two students whom Banek interviews apparently for roles of articled clerkship with the firm, fresh out of law school. The young man especially says he would like to be a lawyer because he believes people are by nature good, and that conflict arises from historical forces, the law being there as a "buffer", him believing strongly in fairness and justice. He is given the role by Banek, who invites him to see for himself just how the law is in practice. The audience is left wondering how very different the two characters' days would have been had only Banek cared to ask Gipson where he was going that morning, that is the same place as he, to give him a friendly lift.

There is a sense of fate that is seen when Gipson returns the file to Banek. The two protagonists realize that while they had both been blaming the accident at the beginning of the film for their misfortunes thereafter, their lives had always been leading towards where they were in life at that moment. Gipson realizes that he had always been a "very, very unstable father" and Banek realizes that the trust fund case had not been handled the right way from the very beginning.


See? Liberal to the bone.


CHANGING LANES [2002]
Directed by Roger Michell

Doyle: Come on, man, don't leave me out here like this.
Gavin: Sorry, better luck next time.

...

Doyle: You said, "Better luck next time." I said, "Give me a lift". You said "Better luck next time" and just sped off.

...

Doyle: Money. You... you think I want money? What I want is my morning back. I need you to give my time back to me. Can you give me back my time? Can you give my time back to me? Huh? Can you? So she won't move back to Oregon! So she won't take my sons! So they'll move into the house so I can be a father! Just 20 minutes! Can you give me that?

...

Michelle: I always thought you were cutting a pretty big corner by convincing a dying old man to sign a power of appointment.
Gavin: It wasn't like that.
Michelle: Are you sure it wasn't like that?

...

Gavin: What am I gonna do? How do I get the file back?
Michelle: Well...there's this guy. He helps with things that need...helping out.
Gavin: Like what?
Michelle: Like things. Like...getting people to do things you want them to do when they don't necessarily want to do them.
Gavin: Where is he?

...

Sponsor: What happened in court today?
Doyle: I'm in a bar. What does that tell you?

...

Doyle: I hope you don't mind, but I was intrigued by your conversation. I just thought you were in advertising. So I want to give you my dream version of a Tiger Woods commercial, okay? There's this black guy on a golf course. And all these people are trying to get him to caddy for them, but he's not a caddy. He's just a guy trying to play a round of golf. And these guys give him a five-dollar bill and tell him to go the clubhouse and get them cigarettes and beer. So, off he goes, home, to his wife and to their little son, who he teaches to play golf. You see all the other little boys playing hopscotch while little Tiger practices on the putting green. You see all the other kids eating ice cream while Tiger practices hitting long balls in the rain while his father shows him how. And we fade up, to Tiger, winning four Grand Slams in a row, and becoming the greatest golfer to ever pick up a 9-iron. And we end on his father in the crowd, on the sidelines, and Tiger giving him the trophies. All because of a father's determination that no fat white man - like your fathers, probably - would ever send his son to the clubhouse for cigarettes and beer.

...

Gavin: What's in those files that I haven't seen?

...

Gavin: Let me think about it.
Stephen: What the hell are you going to think about, your high school ethics class?

...

Michelle: What's the file say?
Gavin: It says they pay themselves a million and a half dollars...each, out of the trust.
Michelle: Which is the reason why they got rid of Mina Dunne and the rest of the board.
Gavin: It's probably not even illegal.
Michelle: It's probably just disgusting.

...

Doyle: I wasn't bankrupt yesterday and I'm not bankrupt today!
Ron: I'm sorry, Mr. Gipson. The computer says you are.

...

Cynthia [wife]: What do you think the law is at this level of the game? At my father's level? It's a big, vicious rumble, Gavin. The people who established this law firm and the people who sustain it understand the way the world works. If you want to continue to live the way we are living...
Gavin: You have to steal.

...

Gavin [to priest in confessional]: I came here for some meaning. I'm trying...I want you to give the world meaning to me.
Priest: Why does the world need meaning?
Gavin: Why does the...Because...because the world's a sewer. Because the world's a shithole and a garbage dump. Because my father-in-law got me to screw a good man, a decent man out of his money. And my wife cheers me on. Because I got into a fender bender with vthis guy on the FDR. I had a fight with him. I tried to do everything to settle it. But this guy just won't let it go.
Priest: Why? Why wouldn't he let it go?
Gavin: I DON'T KNOW WHY!! Sometimes, God likes to put two guys in a paper bag and just let 'em rip.

...

Gavin [snickering then laughing out loud]: The law keeps us civilized?
Tyler [interviewing for a job]: I don't think it's funny.
Gavin: That's why I'm gonna give you this job. I'm giving you the job because I wanna hear what you have to say about the law after you've worked here for five years. Or three years. Or a month. A week, a day, an hour.

...

Sponsor [to Doyle]: What you saw today is that everything decent is held together by a covenant. An agreement NOT to go bat shit.

...

Sponsor [to Doyle]: You know, booze isn't really your drug of choice anyway. You're addicted to chaos. For some of us, it's coke. For some of us, it's bourbon. But you? You got hooked on disaster.

...

Stephen: How the hell do you think Simon Dunne got his money? You think those factories in Malaysia have day care centers in them? You wanna check the pollution levels of his chemical plants in Mexico or look at the tax benefits he got from this foundation? This is all a tightrope, you gotta learn to balance.
Gavin: How can you live like that?
Stephen: I can live with myself...because at the end of the day I think I do more good than harm. What other standard have I got to judge by?

...

Gavin: I was thinking about what you said to me. About the end of the day - about doing more good than harm. That is what you said, isn't it?
Stephen: Don't you fuck with me.
Gavin: I am not fucking with you, sir. Can you imagine how unpleasant it would be if the judge got a hold of this file? I'm gonna hold on to this file. I'm gonna keep it in a very safe place. But I'm not going to Texas. I'm gonna come back into work on Monday. I'm gonna start doing that pro bono work that you recommended that I do. But I'm gonna do it from our office. The first thing we're gonna do is help a man buy a house.

...

Valerie: What do you want?
Gavin: Five minutes, ma'am. I owe your husband twenty. Hell... I'm only asking for five with you.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:08 am

Money doesn't talk here, it screams bloody murder. Everything else is incidental. And it still is today. But it was a whole different world back then. Everyone was "juiced in"...or "made". You were where you were because one or another set of "bosses" dictated it. And the bosses played footsies with the pols.

But it's a world I never really learned to comprehend at all because I never [ever] had even the slightest inclination to gamble.

It's an ersatz spectacle that plastic people thrive on. And that's okay by me. As long as I can steer clear of them.

But then people being people even the pros here eventually succumb to the ravages of contingency and chance and change. And while fear works wonders in keeping the sheep in line there were just too many anomalies ready, willing and able to stir things up.

Now it's just business as usual.

IMDb

The blackjack "cheats" were using a technique known as "spooking". Nevada courts have mostly ruled it to be legal because it merely takes advantage of hold card information exposed by sloppy dealers.

Martin Scorsese stated before the film's release that he created the "head in the vise" scene as a sacrifice, certain the MPAA would insist it be cut. He hoped this would draw fire away from other violent scenes that would seem less so by comparison. When the MPAA made no objection to the vise scene, he left it in, albeit slightly edited.

When James Woods heard that Martin Scorsese was interested in working with him, Woods called Scorsese's office and left the following message: "Any time, any place, any part, any fee."

In the scene where Joe Pesci comes over to Ace Rothstein's house to talk to Richard Rheil (the banker). There is a photo on the counter, where Robert De Niro is standing. That is an actual photo of Lefty Rosenthal and Tony Spilotro, which are the real guys DeNiro and Pesci are portraying.


Casino at wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casino_(film)


CASINO [1995]
Directed by Martin Scorsese

Ace [voice-over]: Before I ever ran a casino or got myself blown up, Ace Rothstein was a helluva handicapper, I can tell you that. I was so good that when I bet, I can change the odds for every bookmaker in the country. I'm serious. I had it down so cold that I was given paradise on earth. I was given one of the biggest casinos in Las Vegas to run: The Tangiers, by the only kind of guys that can get you that kind of money. Sixty-two million seven hundred thousand dollars. I don't know all the details....
Nicky [voice-over]: Matter of fact, nobody knew all the details. But it should have been perfect. I mean he had me, Nicky Santoro, his best friend watching his ass. And he had Ginger, the woman he loved on his arm. But in the end, we fucked it all up. It should have been so sweet, too. But it turned out to be the last time that street guys like us were ever given anything that fuckin' valuable again.

...

Ace [voice-over]: At that time, Vegas was a place where millions of suckers flew in every year on their own nickel and left behind about a billion dollars. But at night, you couldn't see the desert that surrounds Las Vegas. But it's in the desert where lots of the town's problems are solved.
Nicky [voice-over]: Got a lot of holes in the desert and a lot of problems are buried in those holes. Except you gotta do it right. I mean, you gotta have the hole already dug before you show up with a package in the trunk. Otherwise, you're talking about a half hour or 45 minutes of diggin'. And who knows who's gonna be comin' along in that time? Before you know it, you gotta dig a few more holes. You could be there all fuckin' night.

...

Nicky [voice-over]: Now, notice how in the count room nobody ever seems to see anything. Somehow, somebody's always lookin' the other way. Now, look at these guys. They look busy, right? They're countin' money. Who wants to bother them? I mean, God forbid they should make a mistake and forget to steal.

...

Ace [voice-over]: No matter how big a guy might be, Nicky would take him on. You beat Nicky with fists, he comes back with a bat. You beat him with a knife, he comes back with a gun. And if you beat him with a gun, you better kill him, because he'll keep comin' back and back until one of you is dead.

...

Ace [voice-over]: In Vegas, everybody's gotta watch everybody else. Since the players are looking to beat the casino, the dealers are watching the players. The box men are watching the dealers. The floor men are watching the box men. The pit bosses are watching the floor men. The shift bosses are watching the pit bosses. The casino manager is watching the shift bosses. I'm watching the casino manager. And the eye-in-the-sky is watching us all.

...

Ace [voice-over]: Ginger had the hustlers code. She knew how to take care of people. And that's what Vegas is all about. It's kickback city. She took care of the dealers, pit bosses, floor managers...but, mostly, she took care of the valet parkers...the guys who could get you anything and take care of anything. Ginger took care of the parkers because they took care of the security guards who took care of the metro cops, who let her operate.

...

Ace [voice-over]: Nicky's methods of betting weren't scientific, but they worked. When he won, he collected. When he lost, he told the bookies to go fuck themselves. I mean, what were they going to do, muscle Nicky? Nicky was the muscle.

...

Nicky [voice-over]: Ace was so fuckin' worried about his casino he forgot what we were doin' out here in the first place. A million times I wanted to yell in his fuckin' ear..."This is Las Vegas. We're supposed to be out here robbin"'...you dumb fuckin' hebe.

...

Ace [voice-over]: Back home, they would have put me in jail for what I'm doing. Here, they're giving me awards.

...

Nicky [voice-over]: To be truthful with you, I had to admire this guy. Tony Dogs was one of the toughest Irishmen I ever met. This son of a bitch was tough. For two days and two fuckin' nights, we beat the shit out of this guy. I mean, we even stuck ice-picks in his balls. In the end, I had to put his fuckin' head in a vise.

...

Nicky: Hey, Dogs, can you hear me?
[Tony Dogs looks over]
Nicky: Listen, Dogs. I've got your head in a vise. I'll squash your fucking head like a grapefruit, if you don't give me a name.
[now in reasonable voice]
Nicky: Come on, Anthony. We go way back. Don't make me do this, please. Don't make me have to be the bad guy here.
Tony Dogs [weakly]: Fuck you.
Nick: [miffed]: Fuck me?
[to cohorts]
Nicky: Do you believe this? Two whole days and nights now.
[turns to vise and starts twisting it almost spinning it like a sailor's wheel]
Nicky: Fuck me? Huh? Fuck me, motherfucker? Fuck my mother? Is that what you're telling me?
Tony Dogs [gasps painfully as one of his eyes literally sprouts out of its socket]:
Nicky [upon seeing this]: Oh God, please give me a name.
Tony Dogs [gasping]: Charlie, Charlie M.
Nicky Santoro: Charlie M? YOU MAKE ME POP YOU'RE FUCKING EYE OUT TO PROTECT THAT PIECE OF SHIT?!

...

Mob Boss [to Nicky]: Wait a minute. You mean to tell me that the money we're robbing is being robbed? Somebody's robbing from us? We go through all this trouble and somebody's robbing us? Huh?
John Nash: Like I said, it's part of the business. It's considered leakage.
Mob Boss: Leakage my balls. I want the guy who's robbing us.

...

Nicky [voice-over]: But the bosses never believed in leakage...so listen to what they do. They put Artie Piscano, the underboss of K.C. in charge of making sure nobody skimmed the skim.

...

Pat Webb: We may have to kick a kike's ass outta town.

...

Nicky [to Charlie]: I think in all fairness, I should explain to you exactly what it is that I do. For instance tomorrow morning I'll get up nice and early, take a walk down over to the bank and walk in and see and, uh, if you don't have my money for me, I'll crack your fuckin' head wide-open in front of everybody in the bank. And just about the time that I'm comin' out of jail, hopefully, you'll be coming out of your coma. And guess what? I'll split your fuckin' head open again. 'Cause I'm fuckin' stupid. I don't give a fuck about jail. That's my business. That's what I do.

...

Ace [voice-over]: Meeting in the middle of the desert always made me nervous. It's a scary place. I knew about the holes in the desert, of course. And everywhere I looked, there could have been a hole. Normally, my prospects of coming back alive from a meeting with Nicky were 99 out of 100. But this time, when I heard him say "a couple of hundred yards down the road", I gave myself 50-50.

...

Nicky [to Ace]: Get this through your head you Jew motherfucker, you! You only exist out here because of me! That's the only reason! Without me, you, personally, every fuckin' wise guy skell around'll take a piece of your fuckin' Jew ass! Then where you gonna go? You're fuckin' warned! Don't ever go over my fuckin' head again! You motherfucker, you.

...

Ace [narrating]: By this time, Nicky had things so fucked up on the streets that every time Marino went back home, the packages got smaller and smaller. It got to the point, when he walked into the place he didn't know whether he was going to be kissed or killed.

...

Gaggi: Frankie, I want to ask you something. It's private. But I want you to tell me the truth. Of course, Remo. I want you to tell me the truth, mind you. I always tell you the truth, Remo. Frankie...the little guy...he wouldn't be fucking the Jew's wife, would he? Because if he is, it's a problem.
Frankie [voice-over]: What could I say? If I had given them the wrong answer, I mean, Nicky, Ginger, Ace - all of them could have wind up getting killed. Because there's one thing you gotta know about these old timers, they don't like any fucking around with the other guy's wives. It's bad for business. So I lied. And even though I knew that by lying to Gaggi, I could have wound up getting killed myself.

...

Nicky [voice-over]: When it looked like they could get twenty-five years to life in prison just for skimming a casino, sick or no fuckin' sick you knew people were going to get clipped.

...

Ace [voice-over]: The town will never be the same. After the Tangiers, the big corporations took it all over. Today it looks like Disneyland. And while the kids play cardboard pirates, Mommy and Daddy drop the house payments and Junior's college money on the poker slots. In the old days, dealers knew your name, what you drank, what you played. Today, it's like checkin' into an airport. And if you order room service, you're lucky if you get it by Thursday. Today, it's all gone. You get a whale show up with four million in a suitcase, and some twenty-five-year-old hotel school kid is gonna want his Social Security Number. After the Teamsters got knocked out of the box, the corporations tore down practically every one of the old casinos. And where did the money come from to rebuild the pyramids? Junk bonds. But in the end, I wound up right back where I started. I could still pick winners, and I could still make money for all kinds of people back home. And why mess up a good thing? And that's that.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:14 pm

Death apparently is even more taboo in Japan. Not a good profession to be tied to.

I don't buy into the spiritual or religious overtones here. But if you must have a ceremony for the dead this is certainly one of the least undignified. Everything revolves around a series of solemn rituals handed down over the ages. It makes death less scary [or permanent] if you are able to buy into it.

It is obviously comforting for those who have lost loved ones...so why not just leave it at that. The ceremony can be very moving.
And, when it comes to dealing with death, well, whatever works.

What is particularly surreal [to me] is how you can be talked into paying for a really expensive coffin [just like here] but in the end they are all burned to ashes in the cremation of the bodies.

Look for Hideki Gondô.

wiki

Loosely based on Aoki Shinmon's autobiographical book Coffinman: The Journal of a Buddhist Mortician, the film was ten years in the making. Motoki studied the art of 'encoffinment' at first hand from a mortician, and how to play a cello for the earlier parts of the film. The director attended funeral ceremonies in order to understand the feelings of bereaved families. While death is the subject of great ceremony, as portrayed in the film, it is also a strongly taboo subject in Japan, so the director was worried about the film's reception and did not anticipate commercial success.

trailer: http://youtu.be/6UFlWO5zhO8


DEPARTURES [Okuribito] 2008
Directed by Yôjirô Takita

Daigo: She's got one.
Ikuei: Got what?
Daigo: A thing.
Ikuei: What thing?


Yes, that thing.

Daigo [pointing to the cello]: And I still owe on that.
Mika: How much?
[Daigo hesitantly holds up one finger]
Mika: That's okay. I'm working. We can pay off a million yen.
Daigo [shaking his head vigorously]: 18 million.
Mika [shocked]: 18 million?!

...

Ikuei: Will you work hard?
Daigo: Yes.
Ikuei: You're hired.

...

Daigo: What does the job involve?
Ikuei: Well... At first, being my assistant, I guess.
Daigo: Specifically...
Ikuei: Specifically? Casketing.
Daigo: Casketing?
Ikuei: Putting bodies in coffins.
Daigo: You mean dead bodies?
Ikuei: You find that...funny?
Daigo: Uh, no, I mean...The ad said departures, so I thought it meant a travel agency.

...

Mika: So, what's the job? A tour guide? Sales?
Daigo: It's not a travel agent.
Mika: So, what is it?
Daigo: Ceremonies.
Mika: Like weddings?

...

Daigo: Can someone who has never even seen a dead body before actually do this job?

...

Ikuei: To preserve the dignity, take great care that family members do not see the bare skin of the deceased.

...

Daigo [driving to his first body]: What should I do?
Ikuei: Today...just watch.
Daigo: All right.
Ikuei: But it's one of those. You picked a bad one.
Daigo: What do you mean?
Ikuei: You'll see...


Two weeks dead.

Daigo [watching Ikuei work]: One grown cold, restored to beauty for all eternity. This was done with a calmness, a precision and above all, a gentle affection. At the final parting, sending the dead on their way. Everything done peacefully, and beautifully.

...

Yamashita: People are talking.
Daigo: About what?
Yamashita: Get yourself a proper job!

...

Ikuei [on training video Mika is viewing]: This is done in such a way that the family does not see. The anus must sometimes be blocked. The cotton wool is rolled, and pressed deep into the anus. This prevents seepage.

...

Mika: Aren't you ashamed having a job like that!
Daigo: What's to be ashamed of? Touching dead people?
Mika: Just get a normal job.
Daigo: Normal? Everyone dies. I'll die, and so will you. Death is normal.
Mika: Spare me the word games. I want you to quit.
Daigo: And if I don't?
Mika: I'm going home. Come see me when you quit.
Daigo [reaching out to her]: Mika!
Mika: Don't touch me! You're filthy!

...

Daigo [at his dead father's side]: So what was his life for, anyway? Living 70 odd years and leaving behind one box of stuff.

...

Mika: My husband is a professional.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:00 am

Fuck 'em? Well, that's what some will say. But the ones who die are almost never the ones who cash in on it. And this was more a "humanitarian" mission. At least on paper.

The fog of war. You can take that all the way to the bank. And for those who thrive on the military industrial complex it can never be foggy enough. Reconfigure the Commie into a terrorist and the war never, ever ends. And Somalia of all places. But today I suspect we'd hit the warlords with drones. And wouldn't you like to own a corporation that builds those!

Here, you can read about them: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/2 ... 46263.html

And coming out as it did in 2001 it fueled all the more the war in Afghanistan and Iraq. Billions and billions and billions of dollars in profits were made there, right?

On the other hand, there is the question of genocide. Or mass starvation. But that's hardly ever the motivation behind any particular deployment. More often than not the rationalization.

But I don't pretend to grasp fully what the hell really happened back then.

Here are a couple of "dissenting" views on the conflict:
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2002/02/hawk-f19.html
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/GM012902.html

IMDb

One of the favorite films of George W. Bush.

Unlike Ridley Scott's previous film G.I. Jane, this production received the full co-operation of the US military.

18 US soldiers died in the incident depicted in the film. The number of Somalis who died during the battle has been estimated between 500 and 2,000.



BLACK HAWK DOWN
Directed by Ridley Scott

Title Card BASED ON AN ACTUAL EVENT. SOMALIA - EAST AFRICA. 1992. Years of warfare among rival clans causes famine on a biblical scale. 300,000 civilians die of starvation. Mohamed Farrah Aidid, the most powerful of the warlords, rules the capital Mogadishu. He seizes international food shipments at the ports. Hunger is his weapon. The world responds. Behind a force of 20,000 U.S. Marines, food is delivered and order is restored.

Title Card: April 1993. Aidid waits until the Marines withdraw, and then declares war on the remaining U.N. peacekeepers. In June, Aidid's militia ambush and slaughter 24 Pakistani soldiers, and begin targeting American personnel.

Title Card: In late August, America's elite soldiers, Delta Force, Army Rangers and the 160th SOAR are sent to Mogadishu to remove Aidid and restore order. The mission was to take three weeks, but six weeks later Washington was growing impatient.

...

Durant: Command Super 6-4, we got militia shooting unarmed civilians down at the food distribution centre. Request permission to engage.
Man over Radio: Super 6-4, are you taking fire over?
Durant: Negative command.
Man over Radio: UN's jurisdiction, 6-4. We cannot intervene, return to base. Over.
Durant: Roger. 6-4 returning.

...

Atto: Don't make the mistake of thinking that just because I grew up without running water I am simple General. I do know something about History. See all this, it is simply shaping tomorrow. A tomorrow without a lot of Arkansas white boy's ideas in it.
General Garrison: Well, I wouldn't know about that, I'm from Texas.
Atto: You shouldn't have come here. This is a civil war. This is our war, not yours.
General Garrison: 300,000 dead and counting. That's not a war Mr. Atto. That's genocide. Now you enjoy that tea, you hear.

...

General Garrison: This isn't Iraq, you know. Much more complicated than that.

...

Galentine: Sgt Eversmann, you really like tha skinnies?
Eversmann: It's not that I like 'em or I don't like 'em. I respect them.
Kurth: See what you guys fail to realise is that the Sgt here is a bit of an idealist. He believes in this mission down to his very bones don't you Sgt?
Eversmann: Look, these people, they have no jobs, no food, no education, no future. I just figure that we have two things we can do. Help, or we can sit back and watch a country destroy itself on CNN. Right?

...

Garrison: So this is the real deal? Is he sure this time?
Harell: He sounds scared shitless.
Garrison: Good. That's always a good sign

...

Hoot: Once that first bullet goes past your head, politics and all that shit just goes right out the window.

...

Hoot: When I go home people'll ask me, "Hey Hoot, why do you do it man? What, you some kinda war junkie?" You know what I'll say? I won't say a goddamn word. Why? They won't understand. They won't understand why we do it. They won't understand that it's about the men next to you, and that's it. That's all it is.

...

Hoot: See you're thinking. Don't. 'Cause Sergeant, you can't control who gets hit or who doesn't or who falls out of a chopper or why. It ain't up to you. It's just war

...

Durant: My government will never negotiate for me.
Abdullah 'Firimbi' Hassan: Then perhaps you and I can negotiate, huh? Soldier to Soldier.
Durant: I am not in charge
Abdullah 'Firimbi' Hassan: Course not, you have the power to kill, but not negotiate. In Somalia, Killing is Negotiation.

...

Abdullah 'Firimbi' Hassan: Do you think if you get General Aidid, we will simply put down our weapons and adopt American democracy? That the killing will stop? We know this. Without victory, there will be no peace. There will always be killing, see? This is how things are in our world.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:54 pm

There must be a million movies about growing up "in the ghetto". And virually all of them at told from the perspective of gang bangers. Men and boys shooting up and shooting each other over and over and over again on the mean streets of testosterone. Macho bullshit that is basically glorified.

But men [you know the ones] are everywhere here.

Still, some just don't give a shit about the lives of anyone living "on the outs". And you see them when they're "fucked up" and you see them when they're not and it seems a no brainer.

As always though it's the kids your heart goes out to. Only some of them here are "packin'"

One thing for sure: in this political climate look for more of the same. Can you imagine Barack Obama proposing a massive urban renewal project to reclaim places like this? Or, more surreal still, "the people" themselves taking to the streets and demanding it?

The more you see stuff like this the more cynical you get. Or you do if you're me. There are lots of good folks here trying to make things better. But the economy that used to sustain places like this is long gone. And in its place came systemic poverty, drugs and gangs. And a political economy that shrugs in response to it.

This is a really depressing film. It's The Wire on crack. You wonder: What's the point here? Enduring shit like this is the reason why most choose to escape it---anyway they can.

trailer: http://youtu.be/YkncKY6qSVI

ON THE OUTS [2004]
Directed by Lori Silverbush, Michael Skolnik
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:39 am

Everyone has a past. But how many start out wondering if they were switched as a baby in the hopsital?

Here is a psychologically "complicated" woman married to a great pianist and the people who become entangled in her dark web. Of course, the others have webs all their own.

But, for me, this is largely about who we become based on circumstances we have no control over. And who we think we are can often reflect only what others have told us about our past. What difference does it really make who -- biologically -- brought us into this world? Well, it could make a lot of difference if you place the emphasis on genetics. But then who raised us is also of considerable importance.

In this regard, the film reminds me of Toto Le Hero. All the elements of "identity" most of us barely scratch the surface of.

Actually, this film is billed as a psychological thriller. It's the account of a woman who is obviously "disturbed" but, as in much of Chabrol's work, the ambiguities are left for you to untangle. And how much can anyone really know about her frame of mind? Or, for that matter, their own? At least Mika recognizes this.

trailer: http://youtu.be/vSf8Hyo6WRE


MERCI POUR LE CHOCOLAT [2000]
Written and directed by Claude Chabrol

Guillaume: You believe you are my father's daughter?
Jeanne: Of course not!


But he's not so sure. And soon, nobody seems to be.

Guillaume: Finished your act, have you? What is it you are after?
Jeanne: Nothing.
Guillaume: You're pathetic when you try to look like my mother. And when you try to play like my father.

...

Jeanne: I saw your step-mother spill the chocolate on purpose.
Guillaume: Mika? That proves it, you really are crazy. She made the chocolate herself. She always does. She'd never let anyone else do it.
Jeanne: So?
Guillaume: You're trying to say she drugged it?
Jeanne: I'm just telling you what I saw.
Guillaume: That's ridiculous. I mean, why would she do it? So, according to you, she drugged my hot chocolate and then spilled it to make sure I wouldn't drink it?
Jeanne: Believe what you want. I've warned you. My conscience is clear.

...

Mika: What about Jeanne?
André: She could be my daughter. I'd like to have a daughter...

...

Jeanne: I want to go.
Louise [her mother]: Go but remember, you're not Polonsji's daughter.
Jeanne: That's all over.
Louise: I'm not so sure.

...

Louise: Your father isn't your father.
Jeanne: Polonski, you mean?
Louise: I didn't say that.
Jeanne: No, you didn't. You said, "You're father isn't your father."
Louise: Polonski isn't your father...nor was my husband.
Jeanne: You're telling me this now? So who is my father?


The fact is no one really knows who her biological father was.

Jeanne [to Guillaume]: She does nothing by halves.

...

André [to Jeanne]: At 18, children start to disappoint you.

...

Jeanne [to Guillaume]: Why did you switch our cups?

...

Mika [to Andre]: I have a knack for doing wrong.

...

Mika: I give and I give and I give; I never ask. I never even asked to live.
Andre: You received life like everyone else. You can't deny that.
Mika [after long pause]: I don't understand. I never understand when you speak.
[another long pause]
Mika: I know what I am. I am nothing.

...

Mika: Instead of loving, I say, "I love you," and people believe me. I have real power in my mind. I calculate everything.

...

It's in God's hands.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:02 pm

She's not especially pretty. She's not especially thin. Her famous father has a wife almost as young as she is. And most of the time people befriend her only as a way to meet her father---the renouned writer and publisher.

He's basically a narcissistic pig. He treats people like shit and has nothing to do with them unless there is something in it for him. Of course the other side of the coin is that some he thinks are friends are just using him in turn.

Still, some people get away with it more readily than others.

It's all about where the individual and all the rest choose to meet in social interaction. "I" and "we" in the "modern world." That and the clash between "serious art" and "pop culture".

It's amazing how many French films revolve one way or another around music. Classical music in particular.

trailer: http://youtu.be/y_K4d-1zQOA


LOOK AT ME [Comme Une Image] 2004
Written and directed by Agnès Jaoui

Pierre: I'm no longer a writer. I'm ashamed. Next time, under "profession," I'll put "kept man." "Writer" goes under "hobbies."

...

Karine: This store has great stuff, and you won't try.
Loitia: Nothing in my size.
Karine: At least try this one on. I'm sure you'll look great.
Lolita: I just hope I fit in the booth.

...

Sébastien: Why are you so mad at your dad?
Lolita: I'm not. I'd just like to kill him.

...

Étienne: Does Fabien want tea?
Lolita: No. We're going for a walk. And his name is Sebastien.
Étienne: I had the "ien" right.

...

Étienne: There's cyanide in the bathroom.
Sébastien: Why do you say that?
Étienne: Just to cut the tension.

...

Sylvia: Beautiful voices are a dime a dozen.

...

Lolita [to Sylvia]: They're all the same. They find out I'm so-and-so's daughter and suddenly they find me very interesting. They're all the same. Well, not you, of course.


As a matter of fact...

Étienne [with his arm around Lolita]: My big girl.
Lolita: Stop, you're hurting me.
Étienne: Wouldn't hurt if it was muscle.

...

Karine [to Étienne]: Lolita will never like me. With you it's the same. I don't count. You say you love me and I believe you. But at times I feel like a chair. You don't see me.

...

Sylvia: But telling millions of people he sometimes practices sodomy may not be necessary.

...

Lolita: I look like a Russian doll.

...

Étienne: She'll go far. What's her name?
Lolita: Aurele. Want her number?
Étienne: Hey, come on, Lolita.
Lolita: With guys like you, she'll go far.
Étienne: I said she's pretty. Are you nuts? I can't say that? What should we do, wear blindfolds?
Lolita: She sings! Who cares how she looks?
Karine: I understand her...
Lolita: No you don't. You gain an ounce and you want to die! I'm not the crazy one!

...

Étienne: Everyone's crying. And over what? Because I said she'd go far?
Sylvia: Thanks to her looks.
Étienne: You musicians above all that?
Sylvia: No, we're not above anything. You see what happened. It was her night. You said nothing.
Sébastien: Because he didn't hear her.
Sylvia: Didn't hear her?
Sébastien: He left three minutes in, came back to applaud.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:17 pm

Let's play master and servant.

Banned practically everywhere as little more than pornography. Is this art instead?

It is based on an actual relationship. The meaning though will be decided one dasein at a time. And it is rooted in the gender relationships that prevailed in pre-war Japan. Back in time and place.

If you like it try Blind Beast. My favorite of the two.

Unfortunately, the dvd I have is dubbed in English.

home made trailer: http://youtu.be/bk_aOjfkCrY

wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Realm_of_the_Senses

IMDb

The writing on Kichizo's chest, that Sada wrote using Kichizo's own blood, reads "Sada Kichi futari kiri" ("Sada and Kichi, just two of us together"). This was the actual writing seen on the real Kichizo's body when the police found his corpse on 19 May 1936.

Demand to see the film at its first appearance at the Cannes Film Festival was so high, 13 screenings were arranged.



IN THE REALM OF THE SENSES [Ai No Korîda] 1976
Written and directed by Nagisa Ôshima
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:58 am

It was all so simple back then. No one was really crazy. Mental illness was just something the authorities invented in order to lock up folks who wouldn't conform to what was [offically] prescribed to be normal behavior. And if anyone really was a few sandwiches short of a picnic it was all the fault of capitalism. Once the revolution happened mental illness would vanish off the face of the earth.

I [sort of] believed that myself back then. Now I [sort of] don't.

Which isn't to suggest the film doesn't expose just how much bullshit is involved with "therapy" that presumes the problem is folks not acting "normal". How many Nurse Ratchets [and her ilk] are out there still?

But so much mental anguish does revolve around people hell bent on establishing the right thing to do. And then for all the rest of us too.

But here is a crucial point:

IMDb: Louise Fletcher got the part of Nurse Ratched mainly because she could embody evil without knowing it. She believes she's helping people even when she isn't.

Lots of people don't take that into consideration when they thump those who don't share their own point of view about mental health. What really is "evil" today?

IMDb

Many extras were actual mental patients. The cast and crew had to become accustomed to working with extras and supporting crew members who were inmates at the Oregon State Mental Hospital; each member of the professional cast and crew inevitably worked closely with at least two or three mental patients.

Most of Jack Nicholson's scene with Dean R. Brooks upon arriving at the hospital was improvised - including his slamming a stapler, asking about a fishing photo, and discussing his rape conviction; Brooks's reactions were authentic.

Louise Fletcher only realized that the part of Nurse Ratched was a hotly contested role among all the leading actresses of the day when a reporter visiting the set happened to casually mention it.

Author Ken Kesey was so bitter about the way the filmmakers were "butchering" his story that he vowed never to watch the completed film and even sued the movie's producers because it wasn't shown from Chief Bromden's perspective (as the novel is). Years later, he claimed to be lying in bed flipping through TV channels when he settled onto a late-night movie that looked sort of interesting, only to realize after a few minutes that it was this film. He then changed channels.


wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Flew_O ... Nest_(film)

Look for Anjelica Huston


ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOO'S NEST [1975]
Directed by Milos Forman

Dr. Spivey: Well, it says several things here. It said you've been belligerent. Talked when unauthorized. You've been resentful in attitude towards work, in general. That you're lazy.
McMurphy: Chewing gum in class.

...

Dr. Spivey: Well, the real reason that you've been sent over here is because they wanted you to be evaluated... to determine whether or not you are mentally ill. This is the real reason. Why do you think they might think that?
McMurphy: Well, as near as I can figure out, it's 'cause I, uh, fight and fuck too much.

...

Dr. Spivey: Why did you get sent over here from the work farm?
McMurphy: Well, I really don't know, Doc.
Dr. Spivey: It says here that you went around...Let me just take a look...
McMurphy: It ain't up to me, you know.
Dr. Spivey: One...two, three...four...You've got at least five arrests for assault. What can you tell me about that?
McMurphy: Five fights, huh? Rocky Marciano's got 40 and he's a millionaire.
Dr. Spivey: That's true.
McMurphy: That is true.

...

Dr. Spivey: Of course, it's true that you went in for statutory rape. That's true, is it not, this time?
McMurphy: Absolutely true. But, Doc, she was fifteen years old, going on thirty-five, and she told me she was eighteen, she was very willing, I practically had to take to sewing my pants shut. Between you and me, uh, she might have been fifteen, but when you get that little red beaver right up there in front of you, I don't think it's crazy at all and I don't think you do either. No man alive could resist that, and that's why I got into jail to begin with. And now they're telling me I'm crazy over here because I don't sit there like a goddamn vegetable. Don't make a bit of sense to me. If that's what being crazy is, then I'm senseless, out of it, gone-down-the-road, wacko. But no more, no less, that's it.

...

Dr. Spivey: Do you think there's anything wrong with your mind, really?
McMurphy: Not a thing, Doc. I'm a goddamn marvel of modern science.
Dr. Spivey: You're going to be here for a period, for us to evaluate you. We're going to study you. We'll make our determinations as to what we're going to do and give you the necessary treatment as indicated.
McMurphy: Doc, let me just tell you this. I'm here to cooperate with you a hundred percent. A hundred percent. I'll be just right down the line with you. You watch. 'Cause I think we ought to get to the bottom of R.P. McMurphy.

...

Nurse Ratched: Have you ever speculated, Mr. Harding that perhaps you arevimpatient with your wifevbecause she doesn't meet your mental requirements?
Harding: Perhaps. But you see, the only thing I can really speculate on, Nurse Ratched is the very existence of my life...with or without my wife...in terms of the human relationships, the juxtaposition of one person to another, the form, the content.
Tabor: Harding, why don't you knock off the bullshit and get to the point?
Harding: This is the point. This is the point, Taber. It's not bullshit. I'm not just talking about my wife, I'm talking about my LIFE, I can't seem to get that through to you. I'm not just talking about one person, I'm talking about everybody. I'm talking about form. I'm talking about content. I'm talking about interrelationships. I'm talking about God, the devil, Hell, Heaven. Do you understand...FINALLY?

...

Nurse Ratched: If Mr. McMurphy doesn't want to take his medication orally, I'm sure we can arrange that he can have it some other way. But I don't think that he would like it.

...

McMurphy: But I tried, didn't I? Goddamnit, at least I did that.

...

McMurphy: Which one of you nuts has got any guts?

...

McMurphy: Nurse Ratched, Nurse Ratched! The Chief voted! Now will you please turn on the television set?
Nurse Ratched [she opens the glass window]: Mr. McMurphy, the meeting was adjourned and the vote was closed.
McMurphy: But the vote was 10 to 8. The Chief, he's got his hand up! Look!
Nurse Ratched: No, Mr. McMurphy. When the meeting was adjourned, the vote was 9 to 9.
McMurphy [exasperated]: Aw come on, you're not gonna say that now! You're not gonna say that now! You're gonna pull that hen house shit? Now when the vote...the Chief just voted - it was 10 to 9. Now I want that television set turned on right now!

...

Dr Spivey: Do you like it here?
McMurphy: That fucking nurse, man!
Dr Spivey: What do you mean, sir?
McMurphy: She ain't honest.
Dr Spivey: Miss Ratched's one of the finest nurses we've got in this institution.
McMurphy: Well I don't wanna break up the meeting or nothin', but she's somethin' of a cunt, ain't she Doc?

...

McMurphy: Is that crazy enough for ya'? Want me to take a shit on the floor?

...

Young Psychiatrist: Have you ever heard of the old saying "a rolling stone gathers no moss?"
McMurphy: Yeah.
Young Psychiatrist: Does that mean something to you?
McMurphy: Uh...it's the same as "don't wash your dirty underwear in public."
Young Psychiatrist: I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
McMurphy: [smiling] I'm smarter than him, ain't I?
[laughs]
McMurphy: Well, that sort of has always meant, is, uh, it's hard for something to grow on something that's moving.

...

Candy: You all crazies?

...

Candy: You better quit on this. They'll throw you in the can again, you know?
McMurphy: No, they won't. We're nuts! They'll just take us back to the funny farm, see?

...

McMurphy: What do you think you are, for Chrissake, crazy or somethin'? Well you're not! You're not! You're no crazier than the average asshole out walkin' around on the streets and that's it.

...

McMurphy: Want some gum?
Chief: Thank you. Mmm. Juicy Fruit.
McMurphy: You sly son of a bitch, Chief. Can you hear me, too?
Chief: Yeah, you bet!
McMurphy: Well, I'll be goddamned, Chief! And they all, they all think you're deaf and dumb. Jesus Christ! You fooled them, Chief. You fooled them. You fooled them all! Goddamn you!

...

McMurphy: A little dab'll do ya.

...

McMurphy: I can't take it no more. I gotta get outta here.
Chief: I can't. I just can't.
McMurphy: It's easier than you think, Chief.
Chief: For you, maybe. You're a lot bigger than me.

...

Chief: My pop was real big. He did like he pleased. That's why everybody worked on him. The last time I seen my father, he was blind and diseased from drinking. And every time he put the bottle to his mouth, he didn't suck out of it, it sucked out of him until he shrunk so wrinkled and yellow even the dogs didn't know him.
McMurphy: Killed him, huh?
Chief: I'm not saying they killed him. They just worked on him. The way they're working on you.

...

McMurphy: Wake up, boys. Wake up. It's medication time. Medication time.

...

Nurse Ratched: Aren't you ashamed?
Billy: No, I'm not.
[Applause from friends]
Nurse Ratched: You know Billy, what worries me is how your mother is going to take this.
Billy: Um, um, well, y-y-y-you d-d-d-don't have to t-t-t-tell her, Miss Ratched.
Nurse Ratched: I don't have to tell her? Your mother and I are old friends. You know that.
Billy: P-p-p-please d-d-don't tell my m-m-m-mother.

...

Nurse Ratched [after Billy is found dead]: The best thing we can do is go on with our daily routine.

...

Chief: Mac...they said you escaped. I knew you wouldn't leave without me. I was waiting for you. Now we can make it, Mac; I feel big as a damn mountain.
[he suddenly sees the lobotomy scars]
Chief: Oh, no...
[embracing McMurphy]
Chief: I'm not goin' without you, Mac. I wouldn't leave you this way...You're coming with me. Let's go.
[he smothers him to death]
Last edited by iambiguous on Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:47 pm

All I know is this: If I'm hell bent on snuffing it and a guy like this keeps poking his business into mine we're both going down. Really, there are particular times when officious folks enrage you. And this is one of them.

Of course I'm not him and this story isn't mine.

Everything always comes down to why you are checking out. Scripts like this can only work in particular contexts. In others they make no sense at all. For some folks, you talk them down. But, for others, you help them.

The most important thing though is this: You can only go in so far in understanding another when he chooses to end his life. This is what the film has the courage to explore.

trailer: http://youtu.be/U5IGC59Q9y8


GOODBYE SOLO [2008]
Written and directed by Ramin Bahrani

Solo [to William]: What are you going to do at Blowing Rock, anyway? Are you going to go camping? Are you going there to chill with the trees and the birds? You like birds, big dawg? Are you going to fly away? You're not going to jump, right?

...

Solo: I don't get it, man. Isn't it better to go to a motel first, drop off your luggage?
William: Why am I with you again? How come it's always you that picks me up?

...

Solo: Why family don't stay together in America? If that was in Senegal...That's where I'm from. In Africa. You know where it is, right? Dakar. Family stay together. We take care of our parents, old people. Even if they don't have teeth in their mouths anymore, we take food and we put it in their mouths.
William: Then why aren't you there now?
Solo: I got to make money and send it back home, that's all. You know what I mean? I'm going to go back there when I get old.

...

Solo: William, I'm going to Piedmont Circle Projects. I mean, I'm talking about Homicide Circle.
William: I don't give a shit.

...

Quiera [to Solo]: And who the hell is that old man sitting on my sofa, huh?

...

Solo: I have my interview on Monday, and I'm going to ace it.
William: I really don't give a shit. I don't want to know. I don't want to know about Quiera or anything about your life!

...

William: I'm closing my accounts.
Solo: William, what do you mean you're closing your accounts?

...

Solo: William, are you there? William. William, are you awake?
William: No.
Solo: What's wrong? Please tell me what's wrong with you. I can't do this anymore.

...

Solo: I went to the cinema tonight. The boy was there. William, I saw his photo in your jacket. You left it in the taxi. Who is he? You told me you had no kids. Why are you lying to me? I'm telling you everything. Is he your grandson? William. William, I want to help you.
William: Did you talk to him?
Solo: William, please.
William: Did you fucking talk to him?
Solo: No, I didn't. But he doesn't know who you are, does he? Why don't you tell him?
William: I want you to get your shit and get the fuck out of here.
Solo: William, why are you speaking this way? William.
William: Get the fuck out!
Solo: We're friends now, and you want to leave me and him, the boy?
William: Who the fuck told you you could get into my life? Who the fuck do you think you are that you can touch anything that belongs to me? I told you from day one, stay the fuck out of my life!

...

Solo [on phone]: Hi, William. It's me, Solo. I wanted to tell you I got the results of my interview. William, I failed. I thought you'd want to know.

...

Solo: William, I saw the other driver and he canceled the trip with you. I'll take you tomorrow morning. That was our deal. What time should I pick you up?
William: 8 a.m.

...

Solo reading aloud from William's notebook: "I made a joke about how bad a film was, and when he laughed, his lip twitched. He looked just like his mother."
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:04 am

Films like this can exist only because we live in a world where films like this must exist. As long as men and women choose to differentiate right and wrong, good and bad, true and false etc. along religious and ethnic lines, inanities like this will prevail. Isn't it time to shunt them aside so that new inanities can be put their place?

Politically the film unfolds at the time when Syrian President Hafez al-Assad has died and has been replaced by his son, Bashar al-Assad. Uncertainy fills the air.

As for the options afforded women, here things are nothing like the extremist Islamic communities, but the fact remains Mona's father has set up a marriage with a man she has never met. This is a crucial sub-text here. The conflict between Israel and Syria plays out parallel with the conflict between the Muslim religion and women.

At least everyone here appears to be well off financially. Things almost always become more reactionary still the farther down the economic ladder you go.

IMDb

Filming was done in two different Druze villages, one pro-Syrian and one pro-Israeli, depending on the political tilt of the scenes. Also, since Israeli authorities would not give permission to film at the actual border, a mock-up was built some distance away.

wiki

The movie's plot looks at the Arab-Israeli conflict through the story of a family divided by political borders, and explores how their lives are fractured by the region's harsh political realities. Set in the summer of 2000, Mona, a young Druze woman living at Majdal Shams in the Golan Heights, is about to marry a successful Syrian actor. Following the hostilities between Israel and Syria there is now the demilitarised UNDOF zone between occupied Golan and Syria observed by United Nations staff. Crossing of the zone is extremely rare as it is only granted by both sides under special circumstances. It has taken 6 months to obtain permission from the Israeli administration for Mona to leave the Golan. When Mona crosses she will not be able to return to her family on the Golan even to visit.

trailer: http://youtu.be/s0PkVJegZZM


THE SYRIAN BRIDE [2004]
Written and directed by Eran Riklis

Title card: Majdal Shams, on the Israeli-Syrian border, is the largest Druze village in the Golan Heights, occupied by Israel since 1967. Druze loyalty is split between Syria and Israel, their nationality is "undefined"...

...

Tallel: I'm getting married today. She's a relative from the Golan.
Director: So how did you meet her?
Tallel: They sent me a picture.

...

Village Elder: Listen, Hammed, you know how much we respect you. We've heard your son Hattem's coming to the wedding. As far as we are concerned, he's an outcast since he married the Russan. If he shows up, you won't see us here.
Hammed: Hattem has not been here for more than 8 years. Today is his sister's wedding. You know that this is his last chance to see her.
Village Elder: We'll never forget what you did for our village...nor your years in jail. But this is different! If you prefer him and go against your releigion, you will lose our support, and we will cast you out too!


This is how it usually works when you reduce everything down to God.

Mona: I'm afraid.
Amal [Mother]: Don't be afraid. Tallel will love you and you'll love him. It won't be like your previous marriage. It's different this time.
Mona: What makes you so sure? Life with him could turn out to be a lot worse than my life now. Perhaps I'm going from one prison to another.

...

Mona: I'm marrying someone I know only from television.

...

Amal [to Mai her daughter]: God willing, your fortune will be better than mine. Don't give in the way I do. Don't you dare give up! I've already missed my chance but your entire future is ahead of you.

...

Syrian Offical: I told you already, as far as I'm concerned, she comes from Syria and she is going to Syria...she didn't come from Israel.
Jeanne: Well, what am I supposed to do? People are waiting on the other side...on your side too.
Official: I have no idea. It's their problem, not ours. You know the whole thing is part of an Israeli policy of declaring that the Golan belongs to them. We will never agree to that. You can tell them that.

...

Mona: It's bad luck not to get married on your wedding day.

...

Jeanne: The problem is solved!


With a bottle of wite-out. But then a new bureaucrat stumbles into the farce...
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:17 pm

Not nearly as good as the Danish original but still a pretty good movie. The plot in and of itself is compelling. Two brothers stumble into a new perspective on things. It changes them. Then what?

The war in Afghanistan has always been trickier for me than the war in Iraq. I react to it more ambiguously. The Taliban are the foulest sort of reactionaries. Good riddance to them. But the war there was never really about that. And, unlike Sam, thousands really did die over there. Not counting all the folks we killed.

They left that part out though.

But not the PTSD. Not the part about nobody understanding.

This is a film where we are privy to something crucial about a character that the other characters are not. But even we are only privy to the tip of the iceberg. And this is relevant to our own lives too. To our own "self-understanding".

Also, I have never bought into the "family" bullshit. As though just because someone is our brother or father or spouse we are automatically obligated to them for life. Here I think Ayn Rand [re Hank Reardon in Atlas Shrugged] was on to something. Over time, folks have to earn our respect and admiration. As well as our compassion and commitment.

IMDb

Jake Gyllenhaal learned of the death of his close friend and Brokeback Mountain co-star Heath Ledger while he was in the middle of shooting a scene for this film. Upon hearing the news, Gyllenhaal immediately walked off set, and returned to finish the scene two days later. He then took a longer bereavement leave before he was ready to continue with the rest of his scenes.

trailer: http://youtu.be/7xYyCCjLpZs


BROTHERS [2009]
Directed by Jim Sheridan

Sam: It's my brother.
Grace: He doesn't deserve you.

...

Tommy: I'm Tommy.
Maggie: Mom doesn't like you.
Grace: Maggie!
Maggie: That's what you said to dad.

...

Tommy: You love it over there, huh?
Sam: It's my job.
Isabelle: They only shoot the bad guys.
Tommy: Who are the bad guys?
Maggie: The ones with the beards.
Hank [father]: Your brother's a hero. He's serving his country and don't you ever forget that.

...

Grace: Sam's dead, Tommy.

...

Sam: Thanks for taking care of them. I didn't expect that.
Tommy: It just comes naturally, you know.
Sam: Grace is something, huh?
[pause]
Sam: Did you fuck her?
Tommy: What? You kidding?
Sam: I'd understand. You thought I was dead. I'd forgive you.
Tommy: What's going on in your head? What makes you think that?
Tommy: You guys just look like two teenagers in love out there. You can't deny that.

...

Sam: You can tell me, Tommy. You gotta tell me, okay? I know you slept in my house.

...

Cassie: Did you see him die?
Sam: No.


See him? He was forced to kill him.

Sam: What happened with you and Tommy?
Grace: We kissed. That's it. I missed you. I thought you were dead.
[long pause]
Sam: I think you're fucking Tommy.

...

Tina: Everyone needs some reassurance.
Tommy: Everyone's different dad, you know.
Hank: What do you mean?
Tina: I just think it's necessary that everybody has someone to listen to them.
Hank: Right, you know, these days they need therapy if they stub their toe. These guys are Marines. They're trained for it.
Tina: They're Marines but they're still people and I don't think that anybody is trained to shoot somebody.
Grace: What do you think they are trained for?
Tina: They're trained to use deadly force, but nobody...
Hank: Trained to kill.
Tina: But nobody is trained to watch someone die.

...

Isabelle [screaming at her father]: WHY COULDN'T YOU JUST STAY DEAD?!!
Grace: Isabelle!
Isabelle: You're just mad 'cause Mom would rather sleep with Uncle Tommy than you.
Grace: Isabelle, why would you say that?
Isabelle: Mom and Uncle Tommy had sex all the time!

...

Grace: Why would say that about me and Uncle Tommy? You know it's not true.
Isabelle: I don't like Dad. I'd rather have Uncle Tommy around instead of Dad.
Maggie: Me too.

...

Sam: You know what I did to get back to you?
Grace: No.
Sam [screaming]: YOU KNOW WHAT I DID TO FUCKING GET BACK TO YOU?! YOU FUCKING BITCH! YOU KNOW HOW HE SUFFERED? HE FUCKING SUFFERED BECAUSE OF YOU! AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO MY FUCKING HOUSE AND MY FUCKING KIDS, GRACE?! YOU'RE FUCKING MY BROTHER IN MY FUCKING HOUSE!
Grace: Sam, you know I didn't. Sam, please.
SAM: I LOVE YOU GRACE! YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I LOVE YOU? YOU KNOW WHAT I...GRACE, DO YOU KNOW WHAT I FUCKING DID...DO YOU KNOW WHAT I CAN FUCKING DO WITH THESE FUCKING HANDS, GRACE?!
[he slaps himself over and again in the head]
Sam: YOU...FUCK! GOD! FUCK!!!

...

Sam: I'm drowning, Tommy.

...

Grace: Sam, what happened over there? Why are you punishing yourself? I've loved you since I was 16 years old. But if you don't tell me what happened you're not going to see me again.
Sam: I killed him. I killed Joe Willis.

...

Sam [voiceover]: Who was that said "only the dead have seen the end of war"? I have seen the end of war. The question is, can I live again?


Some can. Some can't. But let's get back to what these particular wars are really all about.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:32 am

If life really was meaningless and absurd it would probably look like this.

Minimalism they call it. In New York, Ohio and Florida.

It's also a "cult favorite". What makes a film one of those is as mysterious to me as what doesn't make it one. I'm really at a loss to explain why I love this film myself. It blow me away when I first saw it all those years ago and everytime I see it I enjoy it all the more. Maybe it has something to do with being a nihilist. Or always having striven to fit in with the lumpen sort. Being one myself as it were.

Maybe only 5% of the population want to live like this someday. But I'm betting a much bigger chunk than that don't want to live the way they are now.

Be prepared to do most of the work yourself in trying to assertain "what it means". Not much apparently. But that's the point.

As for the envelope filled with money...

IMDb

Director Jim Jarmusch was dismayed to discover all the money he paid for the rights to Screamin' Jay Hawkins' "I Put a Spell on You" went to the record company, with nothing going to Hawkins himself. When the film earned a profit, Jarmusch took it upon himself to track down Hawkins (who was living in a trailer park, at the time) and give him some money. It was the beginning of a friendship between the two which lasted until Hawkins' death. According to Jarmusch, Hawkins continuously promised to pay him back, despite Jamursch's insistence that the money was a gift.

What a fucking great story.

wiki

Film critic Pauline Kael gave the film a generally positive review:

The first section is set in the bare Lower East Side apartment of Willie, who is forced to take in Eva, his 16-year-old cousin from Budapest, for ten days. The joke here is the basic joke of the whole movie. It's in what Willie doesn't do: he doesn't offer her food or drink, or ask her any questions about life in Hungary or her trip; he doesn't offer to show her the city, or even supply her with sheets for her bed. Then Eddie comes in, even further down on the lumpen scale. Willie bets on the horses; Eddie bets on dog races. Eva, who never gets to see more of New York than the drab, anonymous looking area where Willie lives, goes off to Cleveland to stay with Aunt Lotte and work at a hot-dog stand. And when Willie and Eddie go to see her, all they see is an icy wasteland – slums and desolation – and Eddie says 'You know it's funny. You come to someplace new, and everything looks just the same.' The film has something of the same bombed-out listlessness as Paul Morrissey's 1970 Trash – it's Trash without sex or transvestism. The images are so emptied out that Jarmusch makes you notice every tiny, grungy detail. And those black-outs have something of the effect of Samuel Beckett's pauses: they make us look more intently, as Beckett makes us listen more intently.


trailer: http://youtu.be/ToCSOp7FGT0


STRANGER THAN PARADISE [1984]
Written and directed by Jim Jarmusch

Willie: You're sure you don't want a TV dinner?
Eva: Yes. I'm not hungry. Why is it called TV dinner?
Willie: Um...You're supposed to eat it while you watch TV. Television.
Eva: I know what a TV is. Where does that meat come from?
Willie: What do you mean?
Eva: What does that meat come from?
Willie: I guess it comes from a cow.
Eva: From a cow? It doesn't even look like meat.
Willie: Eva, stop bugging me, will you? You know, this is the way we eat in America. I got my meat, I got my potatoes, I got my vegetables, I got my dessert, and I don't even have to wash the dishes.

...

Eva: I'm choking the alligator.

...

Eva [to Willie]: It's Screamin' Jay Hawkins, and he's a wild man, so bug off.

...

Willie: I got something for you.
Eva: What is it?
Willie: It's a present.
Eva: Thanks. What is it? It's a dress?
Willie: Yeah.
Eva: Oh. Thank you.
[she looks at the dress]
Eva: I think it's kind of ugly. Don't you?
Willie: No. I bought it. Why don't you try it on?
Eva: I don't really wear this style.
Willie: You know, when you come here, you should dress like people dress here.
Eva [tossing it aside]: I'll try it on...later.

...

Willie: Hey, leave me some Chesterfields.
Eva: Can I get them in Cleveland?
Willie: Yeah, yeah, you can get 'em in Cleveland.
Eva: They taste good there, like here?
Willie: It's the same Chesterfields.
Eva: Yeah?
Willie: All over America. Yeah.

...

Eddie: You know, last year before I met your cousin, I never know you were from Hungary or Budapest or any of those places.
Willie: So what?
Eddie: I thought you were an American.
Willie: Hey, I'm as American as you are.
[Silence. They begin driving into Cleveland]
Eddie: Does Cleveland look a little like, uh, Budapest?
Willie: Eddie, shut up.

...

Eddie [in Cleveland]: You know, it's funny... you come to someplace new, an'... and everything looks just the same.
Willie: No kiddin', Eddie

...

Willie [to Eva]: Here, let me tell you a joke, all right? There's three guys, and they're walking down the street. One guy says to the other one, "Hey, your shoe's untied." He says, "I know that." And they walk... No... There's two guys, they're walking down the street, and one of them says to the other one, "Your shoe's untied." And the other guy says, "I know that." And they walk a couple blocks further, and they see a third friend, and he comes up and says, "Your shoe's untied." "Your shoe's un - " Aaah, I can't remember this joke. But it's good.

...

Eva [looking out over a frozen wasteland]: So, this is it, Lake Erie.

...

Eva: It was really nice of you to drive all the way out here to see me.
Eddie: It was nice of you to be here.
Willie: Eddie.

...

Willie: You take me to the dog races and now you tell me "you can't win them all".
Eva: What's going on?
Eddie: Nothing. Nothing's going on. We just lost all of our money.
Eva: At dog races?!

...

Eva: So what are we gonna do now?

...

Eddie: Where did she get all this money? And where did she get that hat?

...

Willie: I had to buy the ticket so I can get on the plane to take her off the plane.

...

Eddie [watches plane take off]: Aw, Willie. I had a bad feeling. Damn. What the hell you gonna do in Budapest?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:15 pm

No Rosemary's Baby that's for sure but I still found it to be servicable as a "horror film".

The ninth gate or the ninety ninth gate, I see it is a metaphor for that part of human existence that will always remain mysterious, murky, malevolent...even murderous.

Something like this:

wiki

Polanski approached the subject skeptically, saying, "I don't believe in the occult. I don't believe. Period"; yet he enjoyed the genre, "There [are] a great number of clichés of this type in The Ninth Gate, which I tried to turn around a bit. You can make them appear serious on the surface, but you cannot help but laugh at them". The appeal of the film was that it featured "a mystery in which a book is the leading character" and its engravings "are also essential clues".

Polanski read the screenplay by Enrique Urbizu, an adaptation of the Spanish novel El Club Dumas (The Club Dumas, 1993), by Arturo Pérez-Reverte. Impressed with the script, Polanski read the novel, liking it because he "saw so many elements that seemed good for a movie. It was suspenseful, funny, and there were a great number of secondary characters that are tremendously cinematic".


The "look" and the "atmosphere" of the film draws you in---into a world that would at least be intriguing to believe in. Anything is better than believing in nothing at all. And for all the rest of eternity.


THE NINTH GATE [1999]
Directed by Roman Polanski

Witkin (caustically): You here? You didn't waste much time.
Corso: Hello, Witkin. There's a small fortune in there.
(smiles sardonically)
Corso: Help yourself.
Witkin: You're a vulture, Corso.
Corso: Who isn't in our business?
Witkin: You'd stoop to anything.
Corso: For a 'Quixote' by Ybarra? You bet I would.
Witkin (indignantly): Unscrupulous, thoroughly unscrupulous!
Corso: Good hunting!

...

Balkan [to Corso]: You're right, of course. Your friendships don't concern me in the least. Our relations have always been strictly commercial, isn't that so? There's no one more reliable than a man whose loyalty can be bought for hard cash.

...

Balkan: Ever heard of the 'Delomelanicon'?
Corso: Heard of it, yes. A myth, isn't it? Some horrific book reputed to have been written by Satan himself.
Balkan: No myth. That book existed. Torchia actually acquired it. The engravings you're now admiring were adapted by Torchia from the 'Delomelanicon'. They're a form of satanic riddle. Correctly interpreted with the aid of the original text and sufficient inside information, they're reputed to conjure up the Prince of Darkness in person.
Corso: You don't say.

...

Balkan: Are you a religious man, Corso? I mean, do you believe in the supernatural?
Corso: I believe in my percentage. I also believe that books grow old and decay like the rest of us.

...

Telfer: Okay, where is it?
Corso: Where's what?
Telfer: Don't fuck with me!
Corso: I thought I already did.

...

Balkan: Tack another zero onto your fee.

...

Fargas: Old families are like civilizations, they wither and die.

...

Kessler: My latest work: "The Devil: History and Myth" - a kind of biography. It will be published early next year.
Corso: Why the devil?
Kessler [laughs]: I saw him one day. I was fifteen years old, and I saw him as plain as I see you now. It was love at first sight.
Corso: You know, 300 years ago, you'd have been burned at the stake for saying something like that.
Kessler: 300 years ago I wouldn't have said it! Nor would I have made a million by writing about it.

...

Balkan: You must see Kessler again.
Corso: Are you kidding? Have you seen her secretary?
Balkan: Try the lunch break.

...

Balkan: Mumbo-jumbo-mumbo-jumbo-mumbo-jumbo...mumbo-jumbo-mumbo-jumbo-mumbo-jumbo...

...

Balkan [to the Satanic congregation]: Look around you, all of you, what do you see? A bunch of buffoons, in fancy dress. You think the prince of Darkness would actually deign to manifest himself before the likes of you? He never has and he never will. Never!

...

Balkan [nervous]: Corso.
Corso: What were you expecting? An apparition?
Balkan: You're not wanted here, Mr Corso. Leave!
Corso: I'm the only apparition you'll see tonight.
Balkan: You'll find a check at my New York office. Payment in full.


That's the last check he'll ever write.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:24 am

Iñárritu's movies are always about the ways in which we're connected to others...and in a manner most of us hardly ever think about at all. This film is the final part of a trilogy, including Amores Perros and 21 Grams.

But in our modern world, those connections can be global in scope. And Babel spans it. A seemingly insignificant event in a seemingly insgnificant part of the world can metastasize into a profusion of consequences...that then spread out far beyond what they ever could before.

Attempts at communication here become miscommunication instead. Then it's either being or not being in the path of the inevitable fallout.

And then there is the element of culture: Mexico, Japan, Morocco. In some respects people are people are people. But in other respects where you come from makes all the difference in the world.

IMDb

The title refers to the story of the Tower of Babel in the Biblical Book of Genesis. In the story, the people of the world are all united and speak a common language. They begin to build a tower to reach the heavens and become godlike themselves. God, seeing this, decides to confuse the language of the people and destroy the tower. When the people could no longer understand each other they gave up work on the tower and spread out to different parts of the world. It also refers to the connections -or lack thereof- that come through the use of language. In each storyline the characters struggle with surviving and self-identification based on misunderstanding through a language barrier. This film ultimately looks at the fact that we are all intimately connected on a life-and-death level, yet the trivialities of langauge and misunderstandings break us apart. Also, the word 'babel' means a confused noise created by a number of voices, which is essentially what the story of the movie is about.

Babel at wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babel_(film)

trailer: http://youtu.be/chNzbahOn_w


BABEL [2006]
Directed by Alejandro González Iñárritu

Susan: Richard, why did we come here?
Richard: What d'you mean why? I thought you would like it.
Susan: Really? Why are we here?
Richard: To forget everything. To be alone.
Susan [sardonically, looking around at all the people]: Alone?

...

Richard: You're never going to forgive me are you?
Susan: You know what I'm talking about.
Richard: Hey, I'm not going to argue.
Susan [after a long pause]: Okay. You just let me know when you're ready to argue.

...

Chieko [flushing her panties down the toilet]: Now they're going to meet the real hairy monster.

...

Yasira: Why are you home so late?
Abdullah: They closed the road, and we had to take the long way around. Apparently some terrorists killed an American tourist.

...

Mike: My mom told me that Mexico is really dangerous.
Santiago [in Spanish]: Yes, it's full of Mexicans!

...

Doctor [in Arabic]: The bullet didn't hit her spine but if she stays like this, she will bleed to death.
Richard: What did he say?
Anwar: He says she will be fine.

...

Doctor [in Arabic]: I have to stitch up the wound to stop the bleeding.
Anwar: He said he needs to sew up the wound.
Susan: What did he say?
Richard: He said you're going to need some stitches, honey.

...

Richard: What kind of doctor is he?
Anwar: He's a veterinarian. But he is good.

...

Abdullah: What the hell are you talking about?
Ahmed: Yussef killed the American and he spies on Zhora naked and Zhora lets him watch her...

...

Border patrolman: They don't look like you, ma'am.

...

Richard: What about you? How many wives do you have?
Anwar: I can only afford one.

...

Richard: Find me an ambulance! This is your fucked-up country, it's your responsibility!
Government official: The Americans stopped the ambulance. They want to send a helicopter but there are problems.


Political problems. It's all over the news now: an act of terrorism surely.

Yussef: I killed the American, I was the only one who shot at you. They did nothing...nothing. Kill me, but save my brother, he did nothing...nothing. Save my brother...he did nothing.

...

Mike: Why are we hiding if we didn't do anything wrong?

...

Susan: I peed my pants.

...

Police: Ma'am, it was a miracle that we found those kids. I don't know how you could leave them alone in the desert.
Amelia: I had to look for help. How are they?
Police: That's none of your business, ma'am. Do you know how many kids die every year trying to cross this border?
Amelia: Sir, I raised these kids since they were born. I take care of them day and night. I feed them breakfast, lunch and dinner. I play with them. Mike and Debbie are like my own children.


Not any more.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:59 pm

Let's take a break from all the serious stuff above and explore the truly absurd and meaningless.

Howard Stern.

I didn't like him before watching the movie...but only because people I did like didn't like him. I had never listened to him. After watching the movie I still didn't like him. But I didn't like him less than I thought I wouldn't like him.

The guy [and the movie] are, however, really, really, really funny.

But then he's not aiming the humor at me. Me being a while male too.

Besides, isn't this one of the truly great love stories? Even though [admittedly] they're divorced now?

Hey, only in America.

IMDb

Mary McCormack originally did not want accept the role of Alison because of Stern's controversial reputation. She accepted the chance to audition only because she wanted to meet director Betty Thomas. When McCormack told Thomas that she was refusing the role, Thomas encouraged McCormack to listen to Stern's radio show and meet him in person. McCormack became a fan of the show and accepted the role.

Howard Stern, Robin Quivers, and Fred Norris were still doing their morning radio show five days a week during production on the film. Every morning, they would go immediately to the set after the show.


wiki

Private Parts received positive critical praise including Siskel and Ebert, Joel Silver and Gene Shalit. Stern in particular received high praise for his acting, as did Robin Quivers and Fred Norris. Paul Giamatti was also praised, notably propelling him to stardom. Although some critics claimed that the film glossed over his use of sexual and racial humor and that it was relatively brief on recent events of Howard's career. It currently holds a 79% rating on Rotten Tomatoes

Note: Some explicit language


PRIVATE PARTS [1997]
Directed by Betty Thomas

Young Howard: Mom, we're half Negro?

...

Young Howard: And then I hit puberty. That made things worse because my penis never got any bigger. I mean, I was hung like a 3-year-old.

...

Howard: Oh, my God, man, she's taking her clothes off.
Fred: I guess she forgot to close the door.

...

Howard: I got to tell you something. You are gorgeous, And...And you're a great actress and everything, but I got a wife at home. I can't cheat on my wife.
Brittany [naked in the tub]: Then leave your underwear on.
Howard: What?
Brittany: If you leave your underwear on, then you can't cheat. It's just like going swimming.

...

Howard [aloud to himself]: God, let me get away with this, and I swear I'll never stray from Alison again. Never.

...

Duke of Rock: Hey, the Duke of rock's gettin' ready to walk, but I want you to stick around, because we got a brand-new morning man...looks like Big Bird to me....Well, now, how about that, kiddies? He's gonna have Kermit the Frog come in here and sing the Alphabet Song. Isn't that somethin'? Coming up next on the Big Bird show.

...

Howard: My name is Howard Stern, and welcome to the new morning show. And we have a new feature for you. This is, uh, something special. We have a traffic copter now here at WWWW. Let's go up to Mama Look-a boo boo day in the traffic copter. Mama, you there? Hello? Mama? Uh.
[Helicopter Flying Sound Effect]
Howard: Hello?
Howard (as MamaLookaboobooday): Yes, hello. This is Mama Look-a boo boo day, the only black traffic reporter in the Detroit area, I'm proud to say.
Howard: Pleasure to make your acquaintance this morning, Mama. Tell me, uh, what's going on in the traffic?
Howard (as MamaLookaboobooday): First, a political statement, if I may. "Kill Kill Kill the White Man" by Eugene Mamalookaboobooday. Eugene is my pen name 'cause I wrote this while I was in the Pen. "Kill Kill Kill the white man. Kill him until he is dead. Kill the white man. Thank you."

...

Station manager: You talk too much. And very important, I want the time and the temperature 4 times every 15 minutes, not 3...4.
Howard [on the air]: My grandmother died last night. I spent all night with her in the hospital. She...She had a car accident. Her head went right through the windshield. By the way, uh...It's 6:45 and the temperature is, uh, 58 degrees.

...

Howard [voiceover]: Isn't Alison amazing? She's in town, like, 2 minutes, and already she's got a job working with a bunch of wackos....Excuse me. Mentally challenged.

...

Howard [on the air after the station switches to county music format]: Howdy, cowpokes. Uh, I know I shouldn't be interrupting in the middle of a song, but I got to tell you something. I know a lot of you out there really love this music, but I just don't get it. Explain it to me. And maybe it's 'cause I went to college, and I never drove a truck and had sex with my daddy's sister, but... I guess what I'm trying to say is, I...I don't think I'm the man for this job. So this is your old pal Hopalong Howie saying I quit.

...

Howard: I feel like such a loser....I don't want to be one of these disc jockeys that runs around the country, you know, looking for work all the time. I don't want to end up like that. It's so sad. It's so apparent to me now what I should be doing. I should be talking about my personal life. I've got to get intimate. And every time I feel like I shouldn't say something, maybe I should just say it, just blurt it out, you know? I just got to let things fly. I got to go all the way.
Allison: You didn't go all the way before?

...

Station manager: Did he just say "penis"?

...

Howard: But this guy wrote a good book. The author has slept with over 16,000 women, and, uh, take it from him. He says wear tight pants.
Robin: If he slept with over 16,000 women, he wouldn't have time to put on pants.

...

Station manager: This just came from the FCC. Did you say "testicles" on the air?

...

Howard [reading Mad Magazine]: Allison, I'm in the middle of important show research.

...

Dee Dee: A woman had an orgasm on the air!

...

Howard [of Fred]: This guy is total personality. He's electric.

...

Howard: Lesbians equals ratings.

...

Kenny [Pig Vomit]: Uh, Mr. Erlick, if I may? Put me in charge of the Stern show. Let me ride herd on him, and I'll mold that son of a bitch into another Don Imus. When I'm through whipping him, that boy will be asking permission to wipe his ass.

...

Pig Vomit: You goddamn motherfuckers. You fucking waltz in here, and you think you know everything, don't you? Well, I fucking worked my fucking ass off to get to New York City, and you sure as fuck are not gonna fucking blow it for me!
Howard: I was just doing character...
Pig Vomit: Barry, Jerry, clarify the situation for him, please.
Lawyer (Barry): Page 108, paragraph 3, No jokes involving flatulence, excretion, urination, ejaculation, or other bodily functions.
Lawyer (Jerry): Also, no use of the seven so-called seven dirty words. These are cocksucker, mother-fucker, fuck, shit, cunt, cock, and pussy.

...

Howard [as the Match Game host]: Our first clue up is...blank willow. Blank willow. Let's go over to Miss Brett Somers right now. Now, Brett, what did you have for us? Blank willow.
Robin [as Brett]: The only thing on my mind, Gene, was pussy.
Howard: Uh-oh. Pussy. Hey, all right. Hey, that's kind of wild. Pussy willow, that's what I would have said. All right, let's go over to Dick Nixon, former president of the United States. What did you have? Blank willow.
Fred [as Nixon]: In any language, pussy.
Howard: All right! Now let's go to our newest member of the panel, Mr. Jackie "Jokeman" Martling. Blank willow.
Jackie: Well, Gene, I didn't write it too neat, so I have a sloppy pussy.
Howard: Sloppy pussy! We had a sloppy and a fuzzy pussy and a very big one. All right, now, let's keep going. Now it's gonna get a little rougher, OK? Everybody ready? Blank a-doodle-doo. Blank a-doodle-doo. Blank a-doodle-doo. Think about that while the celebrities are writing. Here we are. Let's go over to our Dick Nixon, our own ex-president. What do you got there, Dick? Well, it takes a Dick to know a cock, and that's what I wrote. Cock-a-doodle-doo.
Howard: Now, that's what I would have said. That seemed like the obvious answer. OK, let's go to our own Jackie "The Jokeman" Martling. Jackie The Jokeman?
Jackie: My answer is "cock", and I wrote it really big, so I have a "big cock!"
Howard: I'm afraid you can't say "big cock" on the air. That's a no-no.
Robin: But I just said "pussy".
Jackie [whining]: Yeah, she just said pussy!
Howard: Well, pussy's okay. It's the way you say it. "Big cock" coming out of your mouth is, just not good.
Jackie: Wait a minute. I can't say "big cock", but you can say "big cock coming out of your mouth?"
Howard: That's right.
Jackie: That sucks!
[Pig Vomit, very pissed off, starts running for the studio]
Fred Norris: [as Richard Nixon] Did you just say "big cock coming out of your mouth that sucks"?
Howard: So Brett, what did you write down?
Robin Quivers: [as Brett Summers] Just like the boys, Gene. I've got "cock".
Howard: Do me a favor. Hold that up for a second so I can see your "cock".

...

Pig Vomit: You're the anti-Christ. You know that, Stern?
[shouts]
Pig Vomit: YOU ARE THE MOTHER-FUCKING ANTI-CHRIST!!

...

Researcher: The average radio listener listens for eighteen minutes. The average Howard Stern fan listens for - are you ready for this? - an hour and twenty minutes.
Pig Vomit: How can that be?
Researcher: Answer most commonly given? "I want to see what he'll say next."
Pig Vomit: Okay, fine. But what about the people who hate Stern?
Researcher: Good point. The average Stern hater listens for two and a half hours a day.
Pig Vomit: But... if they hate him, why do they listen?
Researcher: Most common answer? "I want to see what he'll say next."

...

Gloria: You know, I have to admit that I'm really not a very big fan of yours, but, in fact, l...
Howard: I know. You thought I was a disgusting, sexist, racist pig who had the maturity level of a -year-old, right?
Gloria: Yeah, exactly.

...

Pig Vomit [last lines - Pig Vomit speaks to the camera as road construction happens off-screen]: I bear no grudge against Howard Stern. He's been very successful, and God bless him. God bless him. But I'll tell something; I ain't done too badly, myself. Uh, I manage a shopping mall down in Florence, Alabama. Yeah, it's the number one mall in Colbert County. It's number four in the state, so it's not too bad, you know? Uh, I play golf several times a week, you know? But I'll tell ya, if Howard woulda listened to me, I'd still be up there in radio. Still be doin' radio, you know... How 'bout that? That goddamn motherfucker, you know. I tried every
[jackhammer]
Pig Vomit: thing I could
[jackhammer]
Pig Vomit: think of, mold him into a proper kind of deejay, but that goddamn son-of-a-bitch
[jackhammer]
Pig Vomit: I'll tell you, Howard Stern, man! That motherfuckin'...
[extended jackhammer and siren]
Pig Vomit: ! And I'll say that with no shame, either! Man's a
[jackhammer]
Pig Vomit: ! Foul-mouthed, immature... The man's immature, you know? He's like a
[jackhammer]
Pig Vomit: child. I'll tell ya this much: There ain't no God while Howard Stern's walking the Earth, I'll tell you that.
[jackhammer]
Pig Vomit: I gotta go.
[He walks away. To a passerby]
Pig Vomit: How 'bout that? Howard Stern, huh?
[to the camera]
Pig Vomit: Howard Stern can kiss my ass in hell!
[sustained jackhammer as Pig Vomit exits the frame]
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:41 am

There was a game we played in elementary school. We'd sit in the circle and the teacher would whisper a story into the ear of the kid next to her. That kid would whisper it into the ear of the kid next to him. And on and on around the circle until, by the last kid, what was finally said aloud often bore little resemblance to the original story.

Same thing here perhaps. In the oral tradition of aboriginal tribes, "legends" were passed down over the centuries. But you can't help but wonder about the gap between what happened originally and what is now said to have happened instead.

Sadly, the director chose to tack on an ending basically at odds with the actual legend itself.

The legend this film is based on ends with the hero killing the brothers who have been tormenting him. Paul Apaq, the writer, rewrote the legend because he felt that a message of hope was needed. IMDb

This is a whole other world. A world where "survival of the fittest" is about the only thing that makes sense. And for Atanarjuat at times it's bare survival.

But it's not really hard to recognize ourselves in it. It's just that the individual here is far, far more integrated into the social narrative. And, men being men, the political narratives too. There are simply no alternative "lifestyles" from which they can compare their own.

So, what does it tell us about our own lives? What have we evolved from or devolved into instead? Well, for one thing, not many nihilists here.

Bottom line though is that much of the sexual shenanigans could have taken place here and now. It's like watching a soap opera at times. And where there are men there are going to be treacherous sons-of-bitches.

IMDb

While this film would never get SPCA approval, every animal killed was used in true Inuit fashion; all the meat was consumed, and the skins were put to practical use.

At wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atanarjuat ... ast_Runner

trailer: http://youtu.be/u30kkn3FUHo


ATANARJUAT: THE FAST RUNNER [2001]
Directed by Zacharias Kunuk
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:23 pm

They can't go on, they'll go on.

The old world and the new world can produce very different people. But the capitalists won and, for some, that is harder to endure than for others.

Reminds you of Goodbye Lenin!: creating a fantasy world in order to spare the feelings of one who is old and entrenched in the past. Both films came out the same year.

Here Communism is on the way out but capitalism is scrawny. And crooked. Money has long since replaced "one for all and all for one" and here the "ordinary folks" often struggle to subsist from day to day.

Still, they have their good times...and each other. But: For better and for worse.

We all become enscounced in a family dynamic we can only understand from one point of view. Yet somehow we have to figure out a way to integrate them all together. Or just walk away. If we can.

Why should we even care though? And, less and less, some don't. Life can be cruel. What else is new.

trailer: http://youtu.be/B082aEXxk4k


SINCE OTAR LEFT [Depuis qu'Otar Est Parti] 2003
Written and directed by Julie Bertuccelli

Marina [hanging up the phone]: I got cut off. Stalinist!
Eka: If being a Stalinist means being honest, patriotic, altruistic...then I'm a Stalinist! And proud of it too! Stalin was a great man.
Marina: A great man! He was a murderer!
Ada: Stop it, we don't give a damn about Stalin!
Eka: Stalin never ordered anyone's death. I can prove it.
[the electricity goes off---again]
Eka: Stalin would have sorted out this mess!

...

Marina [reading of Otar's death in France]: "Our consulate in Paris has sent the following details. On June 11th Otar Goguebachvili was found at the foot of a scaffold. The French police say he fell from the fifth floor. He died from his wounds on the way to the hospital. The foreman is facing charges because your brother did not have a work visa. The building company denies having hired him. We confirm that your brother's body has been provisionally buried free of charge in the concession for the poor in the Thiais Cemetary in Paris."


Another one bites the dust. Another one takes his place.

Eka [after Ada reads Otar's "letter"]: Things can't be all that easy for him. This time he hasn't sent a bean.

...

Marina [in the shower when the water shuts off]: Life's impossible in this fucking country!

...

Ada: Where's the money from?
Marina: I won the lottery.


Then Niko shows up.

Ada [to Marina]: I hate living with the dead...but I hate plundering them even more.

...

Ada [to Marina]: It's over, that's enough. I won't do it anymore. I'm fed up with lying. You'll do anything to please your Mum. For her to look at you differently. For her to love you a little more than Otar. That's why you refuse his death, to continue competing. Because if he dies she'll make a saint of him and you'll cease to exist. But it has nothing to do with me. It isn't my problem, it's yours. Your fears, doubts, worries...sort them out yourself!

...

Tengiz [trying to explain Marina to Ada]: Don't blame your mother. Our whole generation's like that. We failed at everything. We've lived a lie our whole lives, without questioning it, since we were children, without realizing it, believing it was happiness.


And so, tacitly, they all come to share the same lie. They fall back on each other's good intentions. Is this for the best? Or, more to the point, perhaps: does it work?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:44 am

Baseball? Moneyball.

Like most everything else that capitalism touches [for better or for worse] it has become a commodity by and large. It is something to make money off of. That doesn't stop a lot of the players and the fans from loving it for other reasons, of course. Just don't lose sight of the bottom line. And part and parcel of that is this: the ballplayers themselves become mere commodities. Really, they are traded back and forth here like baseball cards.

But the beauty of any sport is how deeply embedded it is in the world of either/or. Either you win or you lose. Either you are good at it or you are not.

And there are almost always clearly defined rules for every aspect of it.

Not like other parts of our life at all.

But what happens if it becomes less and less fun to play because it becomes more and more about the science of statistics? Everything becomes increasingly more calculated...calibrated. The computer takes over. The "soul" of the game is lost. Or so some insist.

IMDb

Of all the Oakland players from the season represented in the movie (2002), only one played for Oakland in the season that the movie premiered (2011): Mark Ellis (and he was traded away in the middle of the season).

The A's won the AL west again in 2012 with the lowest payroll in Major League Baseball and a record setting 54 wins by rookie pitchers. The season has been informally called "Moneyball 2" by fans and the press.


at wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)


MONEYBALL [2011]
Directed by Bennett Miller

Title card: "It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing all your life." Mickey Mantle

...

Billy: The problem we're trying to solve is that there are rich teams and there are poor teams. Then there's fifty feet of crap, and then there's us. It's an unfair game. And now we've been gutted. We're like organ donors for the rich. Boston's taken our kidneys, Yankees have taken our heart. And you guys just sit around talking the same old "good body" nonsense like we're selling jeans. Like we're looking for Fabio. We've got to think differently. We are the last dog at the bowl. You see what happens to the runt of the litter? He dies.

...

Peter: There is an epidemic failure within the game to understand what is really happening. And this leads people who run Major League Baseball teams to misjudge their players and mismanage their teams. I apologize.
Billy: Go on.
Peter: Okay. People who run ball clubs, they think in terms of buying players. Your goal shouldn't be to buy players, your goal should be to buy wins. And in order to buy wins, you need to buy runs. You're trying to replace Johnny Damon. The Boston Red Sox see Johnny Damon and they see a star who's worth seven and half million dollars a year. When I see Johnny Damon, what I see is...is...an imperfect understanding of where runs come from. The guy's got a great glove. He's a decent leadoff hitter. He can steal bases. But is he worth the seven and half million dollars a year that the Boston Red Sox are paying him? No. No. Baseball thinking is medieval. They are asking all the wrong questions. And if I say it to anybody, I'm-I'm ostracized. I'm-I'm-I'm a leper. So that's why I'm-I'm cagey about this with you. That's why I... I respect you, Mr. Beane, and if you want full disclosure, I think it's a good thing that you got Damon off your payroll. I think it opens up all kinds of interesting possibilities.

...

Billy: Where you from, Pete?
Peter: Maryland.
Billy: Where'd you go to school?
Peter: Yale. I went to Yale.
Billy: What'd you study?
Peter: Economics. I studied economics.
Billy: Yale, economics, and baseball. You're funny, Pete.

...

Billy: Pack your bags Pete, I just bought you from the Cleveland Indians.

...

Peter: It's about getting things down to one number. Using the stats the way we read them, we'll find value in players that no one else can see. People are overlooked for a variety of biased reasons and perceived flaws. Age, appearance, personality. Bill James and mathematics cut straight through that. Billy, of the 20,000 notable players for us to consider, I believe that there is a championship team of twenty-five people that we can afford, because everyone else in baseball undervalues them.

...

Peter: Billy, this is Chad Bradford. He's a relief pitcher. He is one of the most undervalued players in baseball. His defect is that he throws funny. Nobody in the big leagues cares about him because he looks funny. This guy could be not just the best pitcher in our bullpen, but one of the most effective relief pitchers in all of baseball. This guy should cost $3 million a year. We can get him for $237,000.

...

Billy: He gets on base a lot. Do I care if it's a walk or a hit?

...

Scott Hatteberg: I've only ever played catcher.
Billy: It's not that hard, Scott. Tell him, Wash.
Ron Washington: It's incredibly hard.

...

Grady: Baseball and its fans will be more than happy to throw you and Goggle Boy under the bus if you keep doing what you're doing. You don't put a team together with a computer.
Billy: No?
Grady: No. Baseball isn't just numbers. It's not science. If it was, anybody could do what we're doing but they can't. You got a kid in there that's got a degree in economics from Yale. You got a scout here with 29 years of baseball experience. You're listening to the wrong one. There are intangibles that only baseball people understand.

...

Grady: Major League Baseball thinks the way I think. You're not gonna win. And I'll give you a nickel's worth of free advice. You're never going to get another job when Schott fires you after this catastrophic season you're setting us all up for. And then you're gonna have to explain to your kid why you're working at Dick's Sporting Goods.
Billy: I'm not gonna fire you, Grady.
Grady: Fuck you, Billy.
Billy: Now I will.

...

Radio host: We've got Grady Fuson, former head of scouting for the Athletics. Grady, can you interpret for us what is going on?
Grady: They call it Moneyball.
Host: Moneyball?
Grady: Yes, and it was a nice theory, and now it's just not working out.
Commentator: Billy Bean has build this team on the ideas of a guy, Bill James, who wrote an interesting book on baseball statistics. The problem is that Bill James never played, never managed. He was in fact a security guard at a pork-and-beans company.

...

Billy: Would you rather get one shot in the head or five in the chest and bleed to death?
Peter: Are those my only two options?

...

Billy [to himself---with the team in last place]: What the hell am I doing?

...

Billy [to Peter]: When you get the answer you're looking for you hang up.

...

Billy: Art, you got a minute?
Art: Yeah. Take a seat.
Billy: You can't start Peña at first tonight. You'll have to start Hatteberg.
Art: Yeah, I don't want to go fifteen rounds, Billy. The lineup card is mine, and that's all.
Billy: That lineup card is definitely yours. I'm just saying you can't start Peña at first.
Art: Well, I am starting him at first.
Billy: I don't think so. He plays for Detroit now.

...

David Justice: How you likin' first base, man?
Scott Hatteberg: It's, uh... it's coming along. Picking it up. You know, tough transition, but I'm starting to feel better with it.
David Justice: Yeah?
Scott Hatteberg: Yeah.
David Justice: What's your biggest fear?
Scott Hatteberg: A baseball being hit in my general direction
[Hatteberg and Justice share a laugh]
David Justice: That's funny. Seriously, what is it?
Scott Hatteberg: No, seriously, that is.
[uncomfortable pause; Hatteberg leaves]
David Justice: Well, hey, good luck with that.

...

Billy: I hate losing even more than I wanna win. And there's a difference.

...

Billy: When your enemy is making mistakes, don't interrupt him.

...

Billy: It's hard not to be romantic about baseball. This kind of thing, it's fun for the fans. It sells tickets and hot dogs. Doesn't mean anything.
Peter: Billy, we just won twenty games in a row.
Billy: And what's the point?
Peter: We just got the record.
Billy: Man, I've been doing this for... listen, man. I've been in this game a long time. I'm not in it for a record, I'll tell you that. I'm not in it for a ring. That's when people get hurt. If we don't win the last game of the Series, they'll dismiss us.
Peter: Billy...
Billy: I know these guys. I know the way they think, and they will erase us. And everything we've done here, none of it'll matter. Any other team wins the World Series, good for them. They're drinking champagne, they get a ring. But if we win, on our budget, with this team... we'll have changed the game. And that's what I want. I want it to mean something.

...

John Henry: For forty-one million, you built a playoff team. You lost Damon, Giambi, Isringhausen, Pena and you won more games without them than you did with them. You won the exact same number of games that the Yankees won, but the Yankees spent one point four million per win and you paid two hundred and sixty thousand. I know you've taken it in the teeth out there, but the first guy through the wall. It always gets bloody, always. It's the threat of not just the way of doing business, but in their minds it's threatening the game. But really what it's threatening is their livelihoods, it's threatening their jobs, it's threatening the way that they do things. And every time that happens, whether it's the government or a way of doing business or whatever it is, the people are holding the reins, have their hands on the switch. They go bat shit crazy. I mean, anybody who's not building a team right and rebuilding it using your model, they're dinosaurs. They'll be sitting on their ass on the sofa in October, watching the Boston Red Sox win the World Series.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:34 pm

When it comes to man's inhumanity to man this is barely a blip on the screen. And those who pop up here have nothing but the best of intentions spurring them on. Just ask them.

Racism. It is so pervasive [over the course of human history] some argue it must somehow be programed into our genes.
But so much of it is rooted in turn in class. In ignorance. In scape-goating. In the politics of race-baiting.

Like this for example: http://youtu.be/DtrC3rMP1lQ

And, needless to say, Christianity is everywhere here.

But then some will note: "Well, maybe taking them the way they did is wrong...but aren't they really better off in the 'modern world'"? And in some contexts this can surely be a considerably more complex state of affairs than in others.

This is truly a remarkable story. We are talking about three little girls [the oldest 14] making a 1,500 mile journey into the Australian outback. All to get home.

IMDb

The world premiere of this film was held in an outdoor screening at Jigalong, the outback community where the girls were taken from, and where their families still live.

Everlyn Sampi, (Molly Craig), ran away twice during filming. In one instance, she was found in a phone booth, trying to buy tickets back to Broome.

The last scene in the movie, which shows the real-life Molly Craig walking with a walking stick, was shot first. According to Phillip Noyce, during an interview after a screening, Molly's age and health made it so that it would be best if that scene was shot first.


at wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit-Proof_Fence_(film)

trailer: http://youtu.be/rB-jkydqADg


RABBIT-PROOF FENCE [2002]
Directed: Phillip Noyce

Title Card: Western Australia 1931. For 100 years the Aboriginal Peoples have resisted the invasion of their lands by white settlers. Now, a special law, the Aborigines Act, controls their lives in every detail. Mr. A. O. Neville, the Chief Protector of Aborigines, is the legal guardian of every Aborigine in the State of Western Australia. He has the power "to remove any half-caste child" from their family, from anywhere within the state.

...

Molly [voice over, in native language]: This is a true story - story of my sister Daisy, my cousin Gracie and me when we were little. Our people, the Jigalong mob, we were desert people then, walking all over our land. My mum told me about how the white people came to our country. They made a storehouse here at Jigalong - brought clothes and other things - flour, tobacco, tea. Gave them to us on ration day. We came there, made a camp nearby. They were building a long fence.

...

A.O. Neville: Er, now, this report from Constable Riggs about three little half-caste girls at the Jigalong fence depot - Molly, Gracie and Daisy. The youngest is of particular concern. She is promised to a full-blood. I'm authorising their removal. They're to be taken to Moore River as soon as possible.

...

A.O. Neville: As you know, every Aborigine born in this State comes under my control. Notice, if you will, the half-caste child. And there are ever-increasing numbers of them. Now, what is to happen to them? Are we to allow the creation of an unwanted third race? Should coloureds be encouraged to go back to the black? Or should they be advanced to white status and be absorbed in the white population?

...

A.O. Neville: Now, time and again, I'm asked by some white man, "If I marry this coloured person, "will our children be black?" And as Chief Protector of Aborigines, it is my responsibility to accept or reject those marriages. Here is the answer. Three generations. Half-blood grandmother. Quadroon daughter. Octoroon grandson. Now, as you can see, in the third generation, or third cross, no trace of native origin is apparent. The continuing infiltration of white blood finally stamps out the black colour. The Aboriginal has simply been bred out.

...

Nina, Dormitory Boss [to Molly, Daisy and Gracie on their first morning at Moore River]: What's your name? Where you from?
[they don't answer]
Nina: You'll get used to it.

...

Gracie [in native language to her cousins]: New clothes!
Miss Jessop [in English]: This is your new home. We don't use that jabber here. You speak English.

...

Molly [to herself about everybody in Moore River] These people...make me sick! They make me sick.

...

Molly: We're hungry.
Woman: Are youse that lot from Moore River?
Molly: Yeah.
Woman: What - you girls walk all that way?
Molly: Yeah.
Woman: 800 miles? I was there. Too scared to run away, but. Everyone was always caught, stuck in that boob. Youse got the furtherest. Where you heading?
Molly: Home.

...

Moodoo [tracker]: Pretty clever, this girl. She wants to go home.

...

Man: Good thing you kids ran into me. A lot of people worried for you. The police are up and down the country looking for youse. It's in all the papers.

...

Molly [to Grandmother]: I lost one...I lost one.

...

A.O. Neville [dictating a letter]: To Constable Riggs, Police Station, Nullagine. At present, we lack the funds to pursue the missing half-caste girls, Molly and Daisy. I would ask to be kept informed of their whereabouts, so that at some future date, they may indeed be...recovered. We face an uphill battle with these people...especially the bush natives, who have to be protected against themselves. If they would only understand what we are trying to do for them.

...

Molly [voiceover as an old woman in the present day]: We walked for nine weeks, a long way, all the way home. Then we went straightaway and hid in the desert. Got married. I had two baby girls. Then they took me and my kids back to that place, Moore River. And I walked all the way back to Jigalong again. carrying Annabelle the little one. When she was 3, that Mr. Neville took her away. I've never seen her again.

...

Molly [voiceover]: Gracie is dead now. She never made it back to Jigalong. Daisy and me, we're here living in our country, Jigalong. We're never going back to that place.

...

Title card: Mr Neville was Chief Protector of Aborigines in Western Australia for 25 years. He retired in 1940. Aboriginal children were forcibly removed from their families throughout Australia until 1970. Today many of these Aboriginal people continue to suffer from this destruction of identity, family life and culture. We call them the Stolen Generations.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:45 am

The age of innocence? Isn't that the age before ironism?

Hmm. Is there an age after it?

Inncocence here being a proper place for everything and everything being in its proper place. And then extending that iron clad truth to people.

And given the way in which people actually are what could possibly be more ironic?

It's not that ironists did not exist back then, but that they had to keep it all well hidden. After all, among the gentry a faux paux was not to be taken lightly.

But in a sense these people really were innocent in that it would never even occur to them the world could be understood in any other way.

In large part this revolves around conflicting notions of human freedom: is it aimed more outward or inward? Is someone completely at home in a particular world more or less free than another who flits about more ambiguously in several?

They are both gorgeous but once together how long would the passion last? How different was it really back then? And in being gorgeous many others would go after them, right?

Bottom line: Is he an honorable man...or a coward?


THE AGE OF INNOCENCE [1993]
Directed by Martin Scorsese

Narrator: Carriages waited at the curb for the entire performance. It was widely known in New York, but never acknowledged, that Americans want to get away from amusement even more quickly than they want to get to it.

...

Narrator: The Beauforts' house was one of the few in New York that possessed a ballroom. Such a room, shuttered in darkness three hundred and sixty-four days of the year, was felt to compensate for whatever was regrettable in the Beaufort past. Regina Beaufort came from an old South Carolina family, but her husband Julius, who passed for an Englishman, was known to have dissipated habits, a bitter tongue and mysterious antecedents. His marriage assured him a social position, but not necessarily respect.

...

Narrator: But only by actually passing through the crimson drawing room could one see "Return of Spring," the much-discussed nude by Bougeureau, which Beaufort had had the audacity to hang in plain sight. Archer enjoyed such challenges to convention. He questioned conformity in private but in public he upheld family and tradition. This was a world balanced so precariously that its harmony could be shattered by a whisper.

...

Narrator: On the whole, Lawrence Lefferts was the foremost authority on "form" in New York. On the question of pumps versus patent- leather Oxfords, his authority had never been disputed.

...

Mrs. Archer: Poor Ellen. We must always remember what an eccentric bringing-up Medora Manson gave her. What can you expect of a girl who was allowed to wear black satin at her coming-out ball?

...

Narrator: They all lived in a kind of hieroglyphic world. The real thing was never said or done or even thought, but only represented by a set of arbitrary signs. These signs were not always subtle, and all the more significant for that. The refusals were more than a simple snubbing. They were an eradication.

...

Ellen: Can I tell you, though what most interests me about New York? It's that nothing has to be traditional here. All this blind obeying of tradition. . . somebody else's tradition. . . is thoroughly needless. It seems stupid to have discovered America only to make it a copy of another country. Do you suppose Christopher Columbus would have taken all that trouble just to go to the opera with Larry Lefferts?
Newland: I think if he knew Lefferts was here the Santa Maria would never have left port.

...

Ellen: Is fashion such a serious consideration?
Newland: Among those who have nothing more serious to consider.

...

Newland: What could you possibly gain that would make up for the scandal.
Ellen: My freedom?

...

Ellen [to Newland]: Do you think her lover will send her a box of yellow roses tomorrow morning?

...

Narrator: He could feel May dropping back to inexpressive girlishness. Her conscience had been eased of its burden. It was wonderful, he thought, how such depths of feeling could co-exist with such an absense of imagination.

...

Ellen: Newland. You couldn't be happy if it meant being cruel. If we act any other way I'll be making you act against what I love in you most. And I can't go back to that way of thinking. Don't you see? I can't love you unless I give you up.

...

Narrator: Archer had gradually reverted to his old inherited ideas about marriage. It was less trouble to conform with tradition. There was no use trying to emancipate a wife who hadn't the dimmest notion that she was not free.

...

Newland: We had an awfully good talk. Interesting fellow. We talked about books and things. I asked him to dinner.
May: The Frenchman? I didn't have much chance to talk to him, but wasn't he a little common? Newland: Common? I thought he was clever.
May: I suppose I shouldn't have known if he was clever.
Newland (quickly, resigned): Then I won't ask him to dine.
Narrator: With a chill he knew that, in the future, many problems would be solved for him in this same way.

...

Narrator: The first six months of marriage were usually said to be the hardest, and after that, he thought, they would have pretty nearly finished polishing down all the rough edges. But May's pressure was already wearing down the very roughness he most wanted to keep. As for the madness with Madame Olenska, Archer trained himself to remember it as the last of his discarded experiments. She remained in his memory simply as the most plaintive and poignant of a line of ghosts.

...

Mrs. Mingott: I gave up arguing with young people 50 years ago.

...

Newland: You gave me my first glimpse of a real life. Then you asked me to go on with the false one. No one can endure that.
Ellen: I'm enduring it.

...

Ellen: I think we should look at reality, not dreams.
Newland: I just want us to be together!
Ellen: I can't be your wife, Newland! Is it your idea that I should live with you as your mistress?
Newland: I want... Somehow, I want to get away with you...and...and find a world where words like that don't exist!
Ellen: Oh my dear...whare is that country? Have you ever been there? Is there anywhere we can be happy behind the backs of people who trust us?
Newland: I'm beyond caring about that.
Ellen: No, you're not. You've never been beyond that. I have. I know what it looks like. A lie in every silence. It's no place for us.

...

May: Newland! You'll catch your death.
Newland: Catch my death. Of course.
Narrator: But then he realized, I am dead. I've been dead for months and months. Then it occurred to him that she might die. People did. Young people, healthy people, did. She might die, and set him free.

...

Narrator: Newland guessed himself to have been, for months, the center of countless silently observing eyes and patiently listening ears. He understood that, somehow, the separation between himself and the partner of his guilt had been achieved. And he knew that now the whole tribe had rallied around his wife. He was a prisoner in the center of an armed camp.

...

Narrator: The silent organization which held this whole small world together was determined to put itself on record. It had never for a moment questioned the propriety of Madame Olenska's conduct. It had never questioned Archer's fidelity. And it had never heard of, suspected, or even conceived possible, anything at all to the contrary. From the seamless performance of this ritual, Archer knew that New York believed him to be Madame Olenska's lover. And he understood, for the first time, that his wife shared the belief.

...

Narrator: It was the room in which most of the real things of his life had happened. Their eldest boy, Theodore, too delicate to be taken to church in midwinter, had been christened there. It was here that Ted took his first steps. And it was here that Archer and his wife always discussed the future of all their children. Bill's interest in archaeology. Mary's passion for sport and philanthropy. Ted's inclinations toward "art" that led to a job with an architect, as well as some considerable redecoration. It was in this room that Mary had announced her engagement to the dullest and most reliable of Larry Lefferts' many sons. And it was in this room, too, that her father had kissed her through her wedding veil before they motored to Grace Church. He was a dutiful, loving father, and a faithful husband. When May died of infectious pneumonia after nursing Bill safely through, he had honestly mourned her. The world of her youth had fallen into pieces and rebuilt itself without her ever noticing. This hard bright blindness, her incapacity to recognize change, made her children conceal their views from her, just as Archer concealed his. She died thinking the world a good place, full of loving and harmonious households like her own. Newland Archer, in his fifty- seventh year, mourned his past and honored it.

...

Narrator: Whenever he thought of Ellen Olenska, it had been abstractly, serenely, like an imaginary loved one in a book or picture. She had become the complete vision of all that he had missed.

...

Ted [son]: The day before she died, she asked to see me alone, remember? She said she knew we were safe with you and always would be because once when she asked you to, you gave up the thing you wanted most.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:22 pm

This is the original. And it is better [in my opinion] than the Hollywood rendition above. But both are worth watching because the narrative delves into the very nature of identity and relationships out in a world able to jolt you into an entirely new frame of mind.

In my view, the mistake both films make is not putting the climactic scene from Afghanistan at the end of the movie. It would have been more dramatic because we [along with the characters on the screen] would grasp in an entirely different way the changes in Michael.

But no doubt about it: the events depicted in Afghanistan are far more powerful in this film than in Sheridan's. You agonize more in imagining your own behavior.

This is one of the few films I believe should have been a lot longer. It would have been more gripping if more time had been taken to flesh out the relationship between the three main characters.

An examination of both films:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/11/ ... O320091123
http://movies.nytimes.com/2009/12/04/mo ... .html?_r=0

trailer: http://youtu.be/P5e2IM4QAMY


BROTHERS [Brødre] 2004
Written and directed by Susanne Bier
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:46 pm

The ship is sinking. But not fast. Or [for some] not fast enough. Said to be a "metaphor" for post-revolutionary Iran, it can in fact be made applicable to many, many other contexts as well. An iron island in an iron world.

God and denomination. Ho-hum. They still rule the roost in many parts of the world. But out on a diplapidated oil tanker, moored a few hundred yards off the Iranian coast?

And the Captain. Is he more or less a benevolent despot?

And we still live in a world where it can be pointed out that these folks are some of the lucky ones.

That these people are struggling to survive from day to day on an abandoned oil tanker speaks volumes in and of itself. Given the relationship between God and oil in this part of the world.

trailer: http://youtu.be/3yoTgy3gDgI


IRON ISLAND [Jazireh Ahani] 2005
Written and directed by Mohammad Rasoulof


Repeated line: God willing....

...

Teacher: The ship...
Students: The ship...
Teacher: ...is in the sea.
Students: ...is in the sea.
Teacher: The ship...
Students: The ship...
Teacher: ...sinks more...
Students: ...sinks more...
Teacher: ...in the sea every day.
Students: ...in the sea every day.

...

Captain [to Ahmad]: Say you've fucked up.

...

Teacher: Forgive him. Let him go. He is young.
Captin: If I let him go, there'll be chaos on this ship.

...

Ahmad [after repeated dunkings in the sea]: I fucked up! I'm sorry Captain! For God's sake! I fucked up! I fucked up!


Keep them doped with religion....
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:06 pm

The 25th hour is a whole other world. One almost all of us want to avoid.

Drug laws in America. Too draconian? Or not draconian enough? But Lee doesn't show the side he does In Jungle Fever. Remember the Taj Mahal and Gator? Monty is the scumbag here in this regard. But, as always, it is the scumbags behind him that are the most frightening of all.

His other friend is hooked on Wall Street. And who then is the bigger threat to folks like us? The folks they'll tell you really count.

Bottom line? In the end [or so it seems] fuck everyone. One way or another they all play a part in it. And [it goes without saying] DON'T TRUST NOBODY!

Not realistic at all for most folks but relationships like this are everywhere. And in the Big City they are often everywhere else too.

But [in the end] what are friends for if not to make you ugly before you go into the joint.

Look for 9/11. And [sigh] God.

trailer: http://youtu.be/z-WuU7w3FCk


25TH HOUR
Directed by Spike Lee

Monty [putting abused dog in the trunk]: I'm trying to help you, you little prick!

...

Kostya: You're bad luck, Monty. You bring bad luck on me. Always everything that can go wrong, go wrong. It is not just you and me anymore when we go out. It's you and me and Doyle.
Monty: Who's Doyle?
Kostya: Doyle! Doyle's Law.
Monty: It's Murphy.
Kostya: What? Who is Murphy? Who's Murphy?
Monty: Who's Doyle? It's Murphy's Law -- "Whatever can go wrong will go wrong."
Kostya: Him! Yes.

...

Mary: I wanted to know why I got a B minus on my paper.
Jakob: You got what you earned.
Mary: Nobody else in that class can write! You know it! I know it! Everyone knows it!
Jakob: Don't worry about anyone else. You're not competing with them.
Mary: Yeah. But I am. Okay. I am competing with them. When you apply for college, you might have heard of this, they look at these things called grades and if your grades aren't good enough...
Jakob: Your grades are going to be fine.
Mary: Vincent Phiscalla writes a story about his grandmother dying and you give him an A plus. And meanwhile, the night of the funeral, you wanna know where Rhodes Scholar Vince is? Getting smashed at a basketball party and slapping girls asses. I mean, what is that? A charity A+? You wanna know why everybody always writes about their grandmothers dying? It's not because it's so traumatic. It's because it's a guaranteed A+! And you sit there all sentimental "Oh, Vince it was very powerful, very moving." No, it wasn't. You didn't care! I didn't care! Nobody cared! That's what grandmothers do. They die!

...

Phelan: Uhm, what's the big deal with the unemployment number anyway?
Frank: Fellan...
Phelan: It's, uh... Phelan.
Frank: Whatever, look...more jobs means fewer people looking for work, means it's harder to find good people to fill those jobs, means you gotta raise wages to get them, means inflation goes up. You got it?
Phelan: Yeah.
Frank: No, I didn't think so. That's why I'm doing what I'm doing and you're handing out junk mail.

...

Naturelle: What do you want?
Monty: I want to be like that girl in the X-Men -- that one that can walk through walls.

...

Agent Flood: Sh-e-e-e-it. Mr. Brogan, I do believe you're fucked.

...

James [Pop]: This should never have happened. You could've been -- you wanted money, you could've done anything you wanted -- doctor, lawyer. That's all I'm saying.
Monty: Don't lay that on me. When Sal and his crew were squeezing you for the payments, I didn't hear you wishing I was a law school student then. Not one word from you back then. Where'd you think that money was coming from -- Donald Trump?

...

Monty [standing in the men's bathroom, talking to himself in a mirror with "FUCK YOU!" written on it]: Yeah, fuck you, too. Fuck me? Fuck you. Fuck you and this whole city and everyone in it. Fuck the panhandlers, grubbing for money, and smiling at me behind my back. Fuck the squeegee men dirtying up the clean windshield of my car - get a fucking job! Fuck the Sikhs and the Pakistanis bombing down the avenues in decrepit cabs, curry steaming out their pores stinking up my day. Terrorists in fucking training. SLOW THE FUCK DOWN! Fuck the Chelsea boys with their waxed chests and pumped-up biceps. Going down on each other in my parks and on my piers, jingling their dicks on my Channel 35. Fuck the Korean grocers with their pyramids of overpriced fruit and their tulips and roses wrapped in plastic. Ten years in the country, still no speaky English? Fuck the Russians in Brighton Beach. Mobster thugs sitting in cafés, sipping tea in little glasses, sugar cubes between their teeth. Wheelin' and dealin' and schemin'. Go back where you fucking came from! Fuck the black-hatted Chassidim, strolling up and down 47th street in their dirty gabardine with their dandruff. Selling South African apartheid diamonds! Fuck the Wall Street brokers. Self-styled masters of the universe. Michael Douglas, Gordon Gekko wannabe mother fuckers, figuring out new ways to rob hard working people blind. Send those Enron assholes to jail for FUCKING LIFE! You think Bush and Cheney didn't know about that shit? Give me a fucking break! Tyco! Worldcom! Fuck the Puerto Ricans. Twenty to a car, swelling up the welfare rolls, worst fuckin' parade in the city. And don't even get me started on the Dom-in-i-cans, 'cause they make the Puerto Ricans look good. Fuck the Bensonhurst Italians with their pomaded hair, their nylon warm-up suits, their St. Anthony medallions, swinging their Jason Giambi Louisville Slugger baseball bats, trying to audition for "The Sopranos." Fuck the Upper East Side wives with their Hermès scarves and their fifty-dollar Balducci artichokes. Overfed faces getting pulled and lifted and stretched, all taut and shiny. You're not fooling anybody, sweetheart! Fuck the uptown brothers. They never pass the ball, they don't want to play defense, they take five steps on every lay-up to the hoop. And then they want to turn around and blame everything on the white man. Slavery ended one hundred and thirty seven years ago. Move the fuck on! Fuck the corrupt cops with their anus-violating plungers and their 41 shots, standing behind a blue wall of silence. You betray our trust! Fuck the priests who put their hands down some innocent child's pants. Fuck the church that protects them, delivering us into evil. And while you're at it, fuck J.C.! He got off easy! A day on the cross, a weekend in hell, and all the hallelujahs of the legioned angels for eternity! Try seven years in fuckin' Otisville, J.! Fuck Osama Bin Laden, al-Qaeda, and backward-ass cave-dwelling fundamentalist assholes everywhere. On the names of innocent thousands murdered, I pray you spend the rest of eternity with your seventy-two whores roasting in a jet-fuel fire in hell. You towel-headed camel jockeys can kiss my royal Irish ass! Fuck Jacob Elinsky. Whining malcontent. Fuck Francis Xavier Slaughtery my best friend, judging me while he stares at my girlfriend's ass. Fuck Naturelle Riviera, I gave her my trust and she stabbed me in the back, sold me up the river, fucking bitch. Fuck my father with his endless grief, standing behind that bar sipping on club sodas, selling whisky to firemen, and cheering the Bronx Bombers. Fuck this whole city and everyone in it. From the row-houses of Astoria to the penthouses on Park Avenue, from the projects in the Bronx to the lofts in Soho. From the tenements in Alphabet City to the brownstones in Park Slope to the split-levels in Staten Island. Let an earthquake crumble it, let the fires rage, let it burn to fucking ash and then let the waters rise and submerge this whole rat-infested place.
[pause]
Monty: No. No, fuck you, Montgomery Brogan. You had it all, and you threw it away, you dumb fuck!

...

Monty: ...everything's gotten so strange, Pop. I look at these people around me, and I'm thinking, "These are my friends? I don't even know these people." You know, and -- and Naturelle, even. Do I -- do I really know her?

...

Jakob [staring down at the 9/11 construction]: Yeah, The New York Times says the air's bad down here.
Frank: Oh, yeah? Well, fuck The Times. I read the Post. E.P.A. says it's fine.
Jakob: Somebody's lying.

...

Jakob: What do we say to him?
Frank: Don't say nothing. He's going to hell for seven years. What are you gonna do, wish him luck? Just get him drunk. Make sure he has one last good night.

...

Frank: Come on, Jake, don't feed me that bullshit. Yeah, he got caught. But hello -- Monty's a fucking drug dealer. Shit. What, are you -- you driving a vintage Super "B"? - No. He is. Yeah, paid for by the misery of other people. He got caught. He's gonna get locked up. And I'll tell you something else. You two are my best friends in the whole world, and I love him like a brother, but he fucking deserves it. He deserves it.

...

Agent Flood: You don't read the papers much, do you smart guy? In New York? We've a wonderful thing called the Rockefeller laws. Let me educate you. You had a kilo in your sofa. That kind of weight makes it an A1 felony. 15 years to life minimum for a first offense. Now with that much spread in the sentencing guidelines, the judges take their cues from the prosecutors. So if the prosecutors wife busted his chops that morning, you're fucked. You're gone for good. If you get lucky? Really lucky? And let's say he got some good trim the night before. Maybe he'll plea you off to an A2. But that's still 3 to 8 for first time, minimum. How much of that stretch you pull is all up to the mood of the prosecutor. And he's gonna ask us, "Did he play ball?" So, why don't you tell us about your friend, Nikolai? Let us make it easy on you.
Monty: [to Agent Cunningham] Can I ask you one question?
Agent Cunningham: Sure.
Monty: When you have your dick in his mouth, does he just keep talking like that? Cause it seems to me he just never shuts up. I'm just curious does that get annoying? You know, you're fucking a guy in the mouth and he just won't shut up?
Agent Cunningham: Look here, you vanilla motherfucker. When you're upstate, takin' it in the culo by a buncha guys callin' you Shirley, you'll only have yourself and Governor Rockefeller to thank for the privilege.

...

Frank: You know what a man should never ask in a Victoria's Secret shop, Jake?
Jakob: What?
Frank: "Does this come in children's sizes?"

...

Monty: Champagne for my real friends, and real pain for my sham friends.

...

Monty: I'm not gonna make it, Frank.
Frank: Yes, you will.
Monty: There's a thousand guys up there who are harder than me. I mean, in a room, some junkie doesn't want to pay me, and Kostya behind me, I'm pretty scary. Up there, I'm a skinny white boy with no friends.

...

Frank [to Naturelle]: Fucking last 10 years, I've been watching him get deeper and deeper in with these friends of his, these fucks who you wouldn't want petting Doyle. And did I say, "Hey, careful, Monty, you better cool out, man"? I didn't say shit. I just sat there and watched him ruin his life. And you did, too, all right? We both did. - We all did.

...

Naturelle: I told Monty he should quit a hundred times.
Frank: Did you? Was that before or after you moved into his apartment?
Naturelle: Of all nights, please not tonight. Just don't start.
Frank: Who paid for the apartment? Who paid for the Cartier diamond earrings... this silver dress you're wearing? Paid in full by the addictions of other people.

...

Monty [to Frank]: I need you to make me ugly.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

tiny nietzsche: what's something that isn't nothing, but still feels like nothing?
iambiguous: a post from Pedro?
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