2 questions. a weird problem.

Suppose you are a person who’s thoughts are uncontrollably broadcasted to all that surround you. further that to a minute degree you can hear others thoughts but it is pretty much random as to what you do hear.

1.) How would you find out that you in fact broadcast your thoughts supposing that everybody is trying to keep you from knowing?
Consider that if you simply ask someone they will say no regardless of the fact that it is true and any plan you devise they will know because they can hear your thoughts. Further though you can to some degree hear the thoughts of others of course when you propose this or confront someone with what you just heard them think they will say they did not and further imply that you are crazy. And that what you are hearing is an hallucination.

2.) Say you come up with an invention. A good one that you could make money off of. however because others can hear your thoughts they can copyright/patent/produce that invention before you get a chance to. So the question is are your thoughts regardless of the fact that they are broadcasted your private property? And do you thus have the rights to any invention that you think of?

The “Spy Problem”.
You use statistical observation.

Document and date your developing thoughts.

What’s the weird problem- I’m supposing that it’s concrete and not hypothetical, your using this as a analogy for something your on the fringe of doing.

I can to a high degree figure out what people are thinking- it’s reading body language. People get me wrong from my introspective lack of, and vice versa, I get them because it’s something I’ve always pursued. I’ve come to accept people lie in general, and learned not to hold grudges on this. Even very stupid people are opinionated in intimate details in suppositions, and it can hurt others hearing that opinion. Used to hurt me alot, till I shifted to a examination of how that thought is maintained and how ti is varied against other kinds of thought patterns that pop up in daily life.

In the end, fuck. Alot of misinterpreted signals… and the world isn’t that into you, and when it is, you wish it wasn’t.

I think people will become very quickly like old people in a retirement home… just don’t give a damn- they know as well as you how lame their situation is, but they apparently know better in how to get by in… getting by. What cana 80 year old say to another 80 year old they haven’t heard in countless variations in the past?

As to intellectual property- if it’s stipped from out heads- essentially WE wrote it, and our copyright would apply. However, you can’t copyright a idea. There is a issue with patent infringement, and it’s very likely a society capable of stipping information from someone else can also show they authentically thought it, and had it stolen… engineering and economic data exploiting someone else’s idea isn’t the same as creating a idea a idea to operate within your own personal understandings of how the world works- discrepencies and a degree of reverse engineering will be needed.

Secondly- unless it’s been worked out externally, if it’s purely mental, there will be a lot of discrepencies in how thoughts THINK STUFF SHOULD BALANCE OUT, and how it actually balances out. Symmetry balances out well, area of complex geometry… not so much. A engineering idea isn’t going to balance out until it takes other aspects into play, and those aspects are usually proven on paper, as the mind doesn’t juggle to many strands of complex throught very well. Yes, there are techniques around this, but the vast majority of people won’t use them, as classical models of memory retention are not in vogue anymore. So most is going to be half assed jibberish, as your question focuses on ACTIVE THOUGHT and fits the needs of the individual in thinking. What they thought a hour ago on it is REFERENCED TO, and not necessarily included in the package. Your grasping at fragments.

You might get ‘hey, I should make this new phone I’m inventing have this chemical in it… like how jim made it bond with the screen that time’ and the thought comes with a picture of ‘Jim’ in the lab spilling a chemical on a screen by accident. However- it doesn’t say what the chemical is nomenclature wise, nor the way the screen is made- so you don’t really grasp the chemistry of it, and furthermore, much of the bulk of the visual information may not be authentic memory, but how the individual IMAGINED Jim to be spilling it. You don’t know how he was using thing information before, or what he actually plans on doing with it. He might go up to Jim, and say ‘yeah, let’s use that stuff’ and he will say ‘oh, your needing to factor in so and so into your outlook to make it work.’

Along with this little fragment of information, you also get a fragment of him fantasizing about tapping that redhead’s ass on the other side of the cafe, and some random shit like 'Koala Bears eat Eucalyptus leaves, but not all kinds… that cup has bamboo leaves on it, and it reminds me of Eucalyptus trees, if I was a Koala, or wanted to get one for a pet, how would I know what are the right leaves? Would I have to steal it from Australia, and smuggle it out?

This is important, as the human mind doesn’t have a google search page- that shit might get labeled and jumbled in the immediacy of this thought as ‘important’. You might be looking for financial cues, and pick ‘koala bear’ in his thought pattern and have to wait till it’s decyphered before you can realize you got worthless shit downloaded from him. Or ‘priority’ can be the redhead, liking her style, instead of the ‘style’ of the new phone.

It has potential for abuse- and success, but just picking up on immediate thought for corporate intelligence efforts can backfire as even for really smart people, the bulk of their ideas are going to be incoherent and refereencing to OTHER IDEAS, and those ideas aren’t going to outpace the frequencing of other, much lamer ideas. Partial ideas.

If this is just a segway to the Ethics of downloading employees private information on personal phones and personal email accounts, no- unethical and illegal, even if stipulated otherwise contractually by lawyers in very scary legal language. It’s still unethical and illegal, and that contract is unenforceable in a court of law. Such technology as this is going to be underground playthings of security specialists. Advertisers ultimately are going to be stuck taking external behavioral cue data in the long run- if a AI in a camera sees your eyes shift to a object in the window, it’s going to be legitiamte for it to target you for a sale on the same basis as a babylonian shop keeper calling you out to buy your wears if you glance at him even for a second. It’s legitimate for a salesperson to pay attention to behaviorism, to ASK you questions about yourself to find out more, but realistically, the public won’t tolerate for long highly envasive, involuntary data being documented. Just as the police will pick you up for digging through someone’s trash ‘despite them not wanting it anymore’,taking paper documents (not talking about college kids taking a thrown out couch here, I mean a person looking for documents you threw out) it’s information theft, common in frauds such as identity theft, and legal or not in your jurisdiction, police do respond very fast to this- I’ve seen it happen. They will make a scene of the situation at the very least to alert others.

It’s dangerous to think much about things like this. Seriously.

Simple, you plan to sneak up behind someone and kill them. If you manage to kill them, you were wrong and you’ll spend the rest of your life in a psychiatric institution as a homicidal psychotic. If you fail to kill them (possibly a few failures, to be certain), they know. You can’t do anything about it, because they’ll know what you plan to do and thwart it if they don’t like it.

Having said that, they already know you’re thinking of a plan to find out, and planning to kill someone. So they might arrange fake bullets and special effects to convince you otherwise, or find someone willing to sacrifice themselves. It’s hopeless, you can’t do anything.

But anon is right, this is paranoid schizophrenia pretending to be philosophy. As a mental diversion it might be moderately entertaining; as a serious thought, it’s a sign you need help.

It isn’t a question of property or privacy, it’s solely a question of proof. Just like most copyright and patent law.

OK, so we have someone with turrets who’s surrounded by jerks who hide behind plausible deniability.

For starters, our turrets sufferer needs to relax and have some self-respect. Just because there’s stimulation doesn’t mean he needs to judge it. If he wants to judge it, he should realize that he is not inferior of those around him, so his judgment should not analyze what he has no control over. That way, he doesn’t solve other people’s problems.

Second, our turrets sufferer needs to understand how time is not persistently recorded. He needs to learn to live in the moment instead of caring so much among the careless. He shouldn’t be inventing stuff for no reason.

Third, the ownership of inventions gets split 50/50. Yes, he came up with the idea, but others were bombarded with it. They shouldn’t be obligated to refrain from acting on that which they’re exposed to from another source.

If hearing others’ thoughts ; which progressively embed his “knowledge” (thoughts) he can’t ever know that what he is hearing is his or the others’ because they may just be “stealing” his thoughts.(If he is unaware at least some of the time what he is thinking about. So he can’t ever prove that his own thoughts are really his, so even if there was a virtual right to his own thoughts, he could never think it’s his own, therefore he could never lay a claim to them.

Suppose both of these have been done and all points to the fact that it is in fact true that the person broadcasts thoughts and such… yet people continue to deny it, and might use any claims you make to put you in a psych ward?

What makes you think that I believe this?

That is indeed a problem which causes a bit of an identity crisis which unfortunately would not be capable of being resolved as long as no one tells the person what the actual situation is? Can you think of a means of resolving said identity crisis without knowing or being able to get aid from anyone?

What if you consistently are able to know that a particular person is about to come around the corner or that a specific person is about to come though the door?

why?

Umm, what makes you think I think you do? Change the “you need” to “one needs” as appropriate. :slight_smile:

    We are all having to experience a crisis of sorts as far as our identity os concerned(within limits) without limits, the voices heard--are what they say are signs of abnormality.  When you move the limits, the differentiation of within/without changes.(The boders are moved.  We all think in terms of an internal dialogue, but when it becomes externalized, it "seems" as if though it was coming from the outside.

Consequently,the next step is to think, "whoever is talking to us, also must hear us, even if, we are not speaking directly at them. It is a very simplistic logic, nothing mysterious about it.

Within the circle of normalcy, we become aware, of what is going on.

I see your point about identity- it is the dispersal of identity in its original state (priori/synthetic) that and its de limitation, when boundaries are not conventionally applied. I say that, because in our private moments, we relax boundaries, and with a few shots of sherry or port of whatever, we are not so keen to censure, especially ourselves, when there is irrational internal babble is going on. The crisis we are experiencing is only appearant in a limited focus–the ego.

Because some kinds of thoughts tend to have an inordinate amount of power over people. Not all thoughts are created equal.

Or maybe I just have an occasional flair for drama.