The Deep State

I concur with Fixed. Only the totally subdued and deluded could believe there is no deep state in the US. What makes it an issue is that it is like an insecure subconscious of a government with a child-like will of its own independent of the elected officials and belligerent in its own wishes. It rules without morality, principles, or responsibility - totally self-absorbed (and many still argue that the subconscious mind doesn’t exist either).

In the US getting a government position is a guaranteed job for life - so performance is of minimal concern - favoritism rules. I think that has been intentional because it grows the government exponentially through time - leading eventually to a communist state void of any actual democracy (despite rhetorical pretenses).

I imagine the deep state is no more or less controlled by government leaders than the conscious mind controls the subconscious mind. The Chinese are known for being particularly talented at manipulating a subconscious mind - a type of hypnosis - undetectable influence - “the invisible enemy”.

The influence on the deep state is invisible to the deep state - always being controlled from outside influences (public and insider media) - not from the top and always believing that it has the real truth and better wisdom.

Yeah, FC’s explanation of this is logical

If we have no real proof of this all we can do otherwise is make a guess.

But again: this sort of thing is nothing new.

or as FC puts it:

I just wrote something vaguely sensible just now, but too long and frivolous. My lucid mood has left me!! Or the subject is sort of exhausted with observers remark about the subconscious and China. That’s very good. Ill revisit later.

It is not bad but it does not directly address the OP which is what I would suggest the entry point to the conversation in any thread would be. At least he agrees to the most logical answer in the thread. He deserves some credit for that.

:laughing:

I am just going with the last presented theme outside this thread, which is we are not allowed to chill out anymore. Yep, apparently, we are allowed to be brain dead but we are not allowed to chill out - shit, this reminds me of real life. I wonder whether any of that is connected to the deep state, like what I mentioned about being at odds with each other. Of course, I am only messing around because to hell with the critics, I am keeping my sense of humor.

I have been meaning to comment but your depth of writing is more than what I am used to on this forum for the most part. Sometimes this can prevent me from keeping up with everything when I already have active conversations on and off of the forum. Your assessment of what I wrote is highly accurate. It is hard to know how to answer the best sometimes when asked to answer a question. As I stated for Gloominary’s benefit, everyone is trying to exert some influence anyway and as much as a lot of people don’t see it or at least understand it, even the citizenry exerts it own influence. In my own assessment of society, I prefer to view it as somewhat an onion. Society has layers to it. People tend to get too focused on one layer and they can not see the dynamics of the full situation which means they are disabled from making connections.

Realistically it only takes a little imagination to see the full picture - one does not need some radical social group to indoctrinate them into their own way of thinking just because one does not understand that one was open to suggestion in the first place. So one can use their own faculties to help themself see the truth. In my presentation, I made use of this imaginary apparatus to present my point but at the same time, I did not bother with specifics as at that point there did not seem to be any reason to. I am preaching mental faculties here not for your benefit as it is quite obvious that you suffer this lack less than most if you catch my drift. Depth of thought as you are already aware requires more than reading, remembering, and regurgitating. When someone is able to use all of their faculties instead of relying on the three things mentioned in the last sentence then they are more equipped to build an accurate picture of the world. So yeah, imagination.

I guess some people wonder why no one respects what they say when there are only some that don’t. Usually, the process of reading, remembering, and regurgitating is obvious to the more discerning observer and this in itself is kind of boring to the more sophisticated onlooker so people tend to stay within their onion layer because they have lost all hope of climbing out of the hole they are in. In essence, this type of dynamic blinds people to the point that some of them start to believe they are more discerning and “intelligent” than they are. I don’t want to just pull people out of their hole, I would prefer to throw them a rope as others have done for me and let them climb out themselves. This is how I often approach the process of answering a question. Through these sorts of skills, it is not too difficult to see why I would agree to your answer following my own in response to the OP. Gloominary was able to receive a valuable answer from both of us and I encourage him to read the rest of your posts.

I want to finish with this: The mind adapts to the sense of what it uses: the process of processing information - flawed logics still work in general, since a number of related processes have already produced the most accurate and most useful judgments. This is an important idea as it is part of the representation of what it is to be human. We do learn to specialize with the help of solid logic but this is simply a process of discrimination as opposed to our most used process of generalization. Imagination is related to both generalization and discrimination. Imagination is like a bridge between the two - you may have both but without imagination, they are of only limited use.

Mindless Job Security.

Encode - For lack of a better expression, it seems you’re smelling blood, are on a trail - and in order to not block this scent of blood let me just ‘ramble on’ a bit rather than to frame the thing in transparent frameworks.

the question of the deep state to me reflects much of the question of power as that which challenges consciousness - power in a sense being the antithesis of consciousness in that it must be tamed to some degree to enter consciousness - it must be made to serve some known or understood value.

The deep state does not serve such a value, it is in part the ‘blind frenzy of drives’ that some philosophers posit as the state ‘before creation’ ; the splitting headache of god so to speak, from which many possible future’s are trying to be born, but the sheer volume of futures that seek to manifest through the machinations of the deep state prevents any of them from fully taking shape. This goes for wonderful scenarios and nuclear holocausts. Whatever does in the end take shape is a massive balancing act in which many different motives are being included - from the most malicious to the most fertile. The irreducible absurdity of the political reality that is visible to us is a result of the excess of power that we refuse to acknowledge; I said earlier that it is like ‘all great things must first wear monstrous masks’- in the sense that deep state represents a power that human culture is not ready to claim as a consciousness - and that is not ready to be claimed by such a restrictive thing as consciousness.

It is a game, almost like a dream. Intra-deep state communications can often take an opaque form almost like divination. And in turn, to ‘hook’ the deep state to a purpose, it is necessary to ‘romance’ it for a period - because the complexity of that machine of technocratic powers and restraints is so much deeper than the complexity of most known human concerns, it is not possible to directly address it - one almost needs to create (or divine) a proper language to address the deep state in such a way as to get the desired results from it - or rather, to cause it to attach, as a power, to ones plans. Yes, the deep state must always serve job security of its members, but this means that very intricate games must be played, where all kinds of necessities are conjured up out of nothing and real concerns are shrouded and made more complex than they are - real concerns must turn more complex to engage the deep state simply because the deep state is unable to operate straightforwardly - it “doesn’t see straight” in that sense, observers comment earlier was astute - there is no direct link between deep state and the People - in fact there is a deep hatred in the people of that depth of power that technocracy represents and thus a refusal to think about the deep state or acknowledge it - all this goes well with the metaphor of the subconscious.

In any case just like the subconscious is basically the body in as far as the ego isn’t conscious of it, so the deep state is the operational body of the state, the technocracy, in as far as the ‘commander in chief’ and ‘house of representatives’ and ‘governors’ are unaware of its functioning. As mentioned before the clandestine services are there in part to bridge that gap from the bottom up; in this metaphor they would be the dreams that convey messages to the people in power, distorted, fragmented images of the unfathomably complex issues at the depth of the permanent global power struggle of human clans against each other in the rising tide of technocratic advances, which must be turned into assets even rather than be understood -

As straightforward as the concept of deep state as technocratic functionaries is, the mechanisms by which it influences the known world are extremely manifold and bizarre. Precisely because functionaries are anonymous types of humans who, in their lack of ideology other than the love of capacity in its various technical forms, have no criteria by which to measure the worth of what they’re doing in terms of the world it impacts, deep state can only judge itself in terms of its success in being ahead in the game it plays against its counterparts. In a sense, deep state is an advanced application of the scientific method; constantly testing its functions sheerly in terms of consistent functionality.

‘Above ground’ (in nominal consciousness of power, i.e. politics and ideology), we have postmodernism - the world in which words are king and steward and which refuses to be broken down beyond convention - as you astutely observe, humanity is largely a kind of ‘common law’ - a world in which ‘all is text’ - it doesn’t matter what someone does, as long as he says the right things - a conjurer-magicians world really for a very childish audience, for an audience that doesn’t wish to look into the blind fury of drives that refuses to be caught in neat terms and tested social formulae - a world of ‘reason’ based on blunt logical instruments vs a world of madness based on very sharp such instruments.

Indeed the Chinese have long mastered this idea of acting subconsciously under the auspices of consciousness, an acceptance which eliminates a good deal of the madness - it is understood that reality (the body, the functioning) is addressed indirectly through suggestion, rather than directly through terms. The deep state does not work with any known world on terms – it works through provocations, evocation and invocation…

Where it surfaces, it comes from the chasm between human identity and human power. Despair is a large part of its resource - it is an answer to despair and therefore reflects the nature of despair uncannily. The current tapestry of policies it has unrolled, crystallizing part of its power, is like ice flowers on the surface of the abyss… even where it unrolls plans fabricated by wealthy clans, it does so primarily to designate its own power, and bends these plans to this purpose; it will not simply ‘obey’ - it has no conception of the sort of respect that would command obedience to anything but functionality.
And so the deep nerd remains unscrutinized. The abstraction of the nerd is compulsive abstraction, pre-reasonable abstraction, visceral will to power. Schopenhauer’s fever like existentialism rather than the Nietzschean teleology of taste.

Yeah, right on. I will do my best to keep up. I have been working pretty hard(this has been 24 hours for me). I like to be as expressive as I can so I just come out and say many forms of crazy, lol - it probably descends further into insanity the less sleep I have. I really enjoy the way you write, however. I have read a bunch of stuff that you have written outside of this thread too. I have my favorite thread authors on this forum - I truly enjoy the mental assault I get from all the different opinions. This thread has been enjoyable. I have enjoyed reading everyone’s input. Hopefully, we all served Gloominary well in this instance. Anyway, I read over what you wrote and will do it again. There are things in life that are worth partaking in more than once.

Insanity is a kind of cauldron, philosophy can absolutely not exist without it - yet many take the cauldron for the potion.
Its reversed from the normal picture - the stern cauldron containing the fiery soup; here we have the vessel of fire shaping in its midst the instrument, that mind which we forge, the philosophers stone.

Indeed I managed to forget to add my reply to Gloominary -

I think that ultimately the essence of its conspirators efforts is to learn. The deep state is a scientific edifice, the modern variant Prussian in origin, it was the phenomenon that brought together the German nation from the claws of the Austro Hungarian and the French empires - it leveraged its resources exceptionally well by precisely knowing their impact. It exists of course to advance state power, to do so it must study, and thus experiment; an extremely useful method that spy-minds have always used is to place a symbolic and pragmatic signifier near a conscious substance of interest and observe its response. By learning what a substance is capable of we bring it into the realm of our security.

That, from learning certain things, certain consequences are allowed to take place is a second step, and not the essence of deep state action, in my analysis.

For context by the way on all this consider that Nietzsche, the philosopher of power and politics pur sang, grew up during the Prussian takeover and the formation of Germany; he published his first book directly after Bismarck completed his world-shaping magic. What is perhaps most telling of all things Nietzsche ever clarified about politics is that he didn’t say a single useful thing about the political power taking shape around him; he only wrote in extremely useful ways to power as it sought to follow through; Nietzsche is in that sense part of the German deep state, and thus at the origin of our own, current one. This pedigree of the deep state is quite telling in light of the current events.

I won’t address your post directly as most of it was meant for Gloominary.

I think we have all picked up some bad habits over the years and because I focus so strongly on the mind while everyone else is dealing with ethics, politics, and whatever else…perhaps there are times I do make my assault on another mind or take advantage of whatever naivety I come across…I am not sure that I am doing this consciously…I would prefer to think of myself as intentionally fair. I do hope that my impact on others is not detrimental. I am not sure I would be able to achieve my level of satisfaction in life any other way. When on the hunt, I never just follow one scent. For the sake of clarity, I don’t mind exposing myself a little.

…or perhaps you are flexing on me, Fixed…

:laughing:

Just take care that you don’t overextend. That’s really all there is to it I think. To love to fight is a great blessing.

Words are like a spell. Intent can be difficult to detect. Big corporations know this.

I appreciate that FC. That is good advice coming from one person to another - at the end of the day we are people and we do our best to have each other’s backs - I don’t like all the bad things about life but some of them have to happen even if we don’t like it when anything bad does happen. Sadly my mother lost her fight in the late afternoon yesterday and passed away after having a stroke the other day. The fight for the near term will just be to appreciate the good memories and not fall apart - she would not want that. A man has to mourn but I will make room for smiling - she would want this. Keeping things simple.

:smiley:

Very sorry to hear that encode, my condolences.

-I deleted some impertinent personal stuff.

Our western society is so hollow and depressed because, I think, we have given up honoring our ancestors. Another depth we aren’t ready to acknowledge. Freud is in part to blame for this with his focus on hostility between parents and children but it is as old as Christianity, which basically condemns all human lineages to trivial waste. Vikings believe that up to eight generations of ancestors are constantly vying for dominance in us. You can take this as simply the latent genetic patterns that want to become manifest in us.

Boredom as their chief motivation for messing with us, interesting, I never considered that before.

Thank you for your condolences FC - I am here to read everything that I have time for, which included what you deleted.
I honestly appreciate the humane thoughts presented. You honor your creation.

Boredom is another one of those things that people are not usually aware of up until the point that they say they are bored. This is significant because those that don’t acknowledge it are not being fully mindful. Essentially they are not in tune with themselves(can’t think of another way to put this at the moment). This can be every bit as dangerous as being more fully aware because it is uncontrolled, unrestrained, and presents what iambiguous would call a condition.

Your own statement which I quote should hint that motivations are based on more than simple things like goal-based behavior. Motivation as it turns out is based in the same area of the brain as addiction.
We generally view addiction as an unrestrained process.

I will again say this: Words are like a spell. Intent can be difficult to detect. Big corporations know this.

Along with this are those things that big corporations are not aware of doing. Things that fall under the umbrella of business processes can become a problem, these things are never perfectly evaluated before being implemented and never take into account every “end-user”. Along with intentional outcomes are the unintentional consequences that come with some of these processes. These consequences often unknowingly work in the corporation’s favor. This is not to say that all processes are bad and it is also not to say that some consequences do not backfire on the corporation - nearly all if not all corporations manage for the potential risks but more often than not, mostly from an economic perspective. Big corporations are now facing the problem of staying in control of their own decision-making abilities because the human world is too complex for humans to manage. Somewhat reminiscence of a ground vehicle with no brakes. Shit is out of control…

Add this to the government, the deep state, and a generally “blind” population, and everything is…how could I say it…pandemonium(for want of a better word). This has been a constant for a long time. We are all at odds with each other and SADLY this is nothing new. The only benefit to it being nothing new is that it should be obvious how to fix all of this…perhaps humans are even more stupid than we originally thought.

…and here is the spooky part; this is associated with all that rambling on I was doing about imagination: try to imagine the unseen enemies hiding in every corner of our existence.
Something to ponder every now and then but nothing to be consumed by…

Thanks.

Yeah it explains quite a lot in a very simple way. So simple it mostly goes below the radar of the intellect.

Compare how a young boy in the summer might play with ants, blocking their paths, guiding them, seeing what happens if this, that, is done to them,
or compare how a very beautiful girl might play with the hearts of many men simply out of boredom -
or how a cat plays with a mouse
it is a natural instinct.

Boredom and the absence of challenges are largely the same -
a strong will produces challenges no matter its position - but most rich people have weak wills. So they just play, listlessly, with whatever allows for an easy win or a laugh.

There’s a note of optimism in there too - because what do you really want to happen when you play such games? What are you really waiting, hoping for?

No response required to this unless anyone chooses to.

There is a lot of ground that can be covered with such a concept embedded in the words: goes below the radar of the intellect.

You are an advocate of the intellect - this is something that I have noticed over time. Reasoning to me is like the end-game.

Take the following:

What are two apples plus 3 lemons? and of course, the answer is: 5 pieces of fruit

It is surprising how many people get this wrong - if not wrong provide a different answer. Some people think it is a trick question and others try to solve it as a joke. This is an example of people finding the answer they are looking for - more specifically - choose to look for. A simple example of tunnel vision. Reason can be a form of tunnel vision too - so guessing right or reasoning right is like being at the end game. Simply put, to get to the end game we need to take a look around first. A small leap of imagination shows why some arguments between people are futile and seem like a waste of time.

If I have two applies plus three lemons, I have a requirement of honey and walnut. The outcome of all well made arguments is enhanced life.

My intellect has been a sword too sharp for its sheath - my intellect roams, it plunders and makes fires, it just is, it doesn’t need to go anywhere and yet it arrives in all kinds of sublime majesties, as well as gruesome hells, naturally. I remember vividly the metals drip from the rocks overhead, now my sword is shinier. I dont remember precisely how it happened. Inside the fire it is dark.

The endgame is the true game. I refuse to memorize openings but I am good in the endgame. I rattle bones in the endgame.