The End of Secret Conspiracy

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The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby Gobbo » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:00 pm

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... t-20130425

"If true, that would leave us living in an era of undisguised, real-world conspiracy, in which the prices of currencies, commodities like gold and silver, even interest rates and the value of money itself, can be and may already have been dictated from above. And those who are doing it can get away with it. Forget the Illuminati – this is the real thing, and it's no secret. You can stare right at it, anytime you want."


I am nearing 11111 and we are nearing the end of conspiracies in the sense of how most view them now.

My time here is almost at an end.
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Re: The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby rununder » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:04 pm

Conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones and Glenn Beck are shooting themselves in the foot, by claiming that the Boston bombing is an "inside job". Nobody believes these muppets. They just destroyed almost all credibility they could of ever had as "serious" news sources or sources of relevant information. There is a line between paranoia and legitimate fears. And these fools cross that line without looking back.

They essentially destroy their own credibility, and the credibility of any other potential conspiracy theorist. They are the sad, laughing stock of the nation, the national fool. These men are consumed by fear, and live in fantasy worlds of government takeover, without reason.
obe wrote:The ubermensch is a relational object. It is as much an uber, as it is an unter. The uber and the unter over what? It's self, that is what. It can't ever understand itself, hence Descartes is wrong. Leibnitz is indiscernible. Kant is not a synthesis, (and Nietzche has no takeoff point). How do we go from kant to post modernisms? Well of course through a failed phenomenologically reduced/deconstructed world, a world of signs, and postures, a world of bad faith, or irresolute hypocrisy, (the cynics were right), to today: Dan's edge, the very edge, gasping for relatedness, through attempts at escape through a door marked no exist, into the illusion of virtual reality of a faux enetertaining world of silent screens, and robbed souls. This is what the ubermensch is all about. A Buddha/socrates, a simple man, non deceitful, and brutally gentle, pre conditionally wise.
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Re: The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby Stoic Guardian » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:12 pm

I Hate rolling stone magazine.
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Re: The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby James S Saint » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:19 pm

rununder wrote:Conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones and Glenn Beck are shooting themselves in the foot, by claiming that the Boston bombing is an "inside job". Nobody believes these muppets. They just destroyed almost all credibility they could of ever had as "serious" news sources or sources of relevant information. There is a line between paranoia and legitimate fears. And these fools cross that line without looking back.

They essentially destroy their own credibility, and the credibility of any other potential conspiracy theorist. They are the sad, laughing stock of the nation, the national fool. These men are consumed by fear, and live in fantasy worlds of government takeover, without reason.

I have found them to be right more often than not.
Those who don't believe in conspiracies have no real notion of world history, fore no nation has ever existed without conspiracies involved in every stage of its development and survival. Those who don't conspire, don't survive those who do.
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Re: The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby rununder » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:22 pm

That doesn't change how much of an embarrassment it is, when the fearmongers keep painting Boston bombing as an "inside job", when it clearly was not, and clearly was caused by Islamic Jihadists. Then, these fools have the audacity to not back down from their claims, and further try to rationalize everything away into a conspiracy.

It's just a huge embarrassment for them, for their followers, and for everybody who buys into their fearmongering garbage. It demonstrates a lack of decency and intelligence, ruled over by fear more than anything else.
obe wrote:The ubermensch is a relational object. It is as much an uber, as it is an unter. The uber and the unter over what? It's self, that is what. It can't ever understand itself, hence Descartes is wrong. Leibnitz is indiscernible. Kant is not a synthesis, (and Nietzche has no takeoff point). How do we go from kant to post modernisms? Well of course through a failed phenomenologically reduced/deconstructed world, a world of signs, and postures, a world of bad faith, or irresolute hypocrisy, (the cynics were right), to today: Dan's edge, the very edge, gasping for relatedness, through attempts at escape through a door marked no exist, into the illusion of virtual reality of a faux enetertaining world of silent screens, and robbed souls. This is what the ubermensch is all about. A Buddha/socrates, a simple man, non deceitful, and brutally gentle, pre conditionally wise.
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Re: The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby Moreno » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:04 pm

rununder wrote:That doesn't change how much of an embarrassment it is, when the fearmongers keep painting Boston bombing as an "inside job", when it clearly was not, and clearly was caused by Islamic Jihadists. Then, these fools have the audacity to not back down from their claims, and further try to rationalize everything away into a conspiracy.

It's just a huge embarrassment for them, for their followers, and for everybody who buys into their fearmongering garbage. It demonstrates a lack of decency and intelligence, ruled over by fear more than anything else.

We have a choice between two main conspiracies, both of them cause fear, so I don't see how adhering to one is fearmongering. Whoever was behind it it was terrorism, instilling terror, that is. Further you are saying that it was caused by Jihadist Terrorists and was not an inside job. But these are not mutually exclusive as can be seen in a number of posts in the other thread on 'what happened in Boston.' And then of course saying they embarrassed themselves could entail demonstrating this rather than stating it.
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Re: The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby iambiguous » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:30 am

Well, for what it's worth, I'll just tack this on here too:

But let me put my own cards on the table regarding the American government and "conspiracy":

I believe that America is fully invested in preserving and sustaining its "ruling class". And that, in so doing, it will in fact plot and plan to do things that unfold almost entirely behind the curtains. And that includes Barack Obama and most of the Democratic Party.

But not a "ruling class" in the simplistic Marxist sense of "the class struggle". That was more a manifestation of the industrial revolution. Capitalism today is of the crony rendition---it has evolved light years beyond that.

Indeed, in today's world, delineating something as "the ruling class" does not mean that once a month...literally...the folks from The Mainstrem Media [and their Wall Street advertisers] sit down with relevant committee chairmen in Congress, Obama's economic team in the White House, the K Street lobbyists and Henry Kissinger's "colleagues" from Bilderberg to meticulously plan the next month's political and economic agenda. It doesn't work that way. Why? Because it doesn't have to. Besides, even within these corporate/political concoctions of wealth and power, there are considerable conflicts. For example, corporations based here in America may be strongly opposed to government policies that favor companies that shift all or part of their business overseas. And companies that oppose policies seen as favorable to the interests of oil industry do so because the higher the cost of oil the more costly it is in run their own businesses profitably. As with most things global, it's very, very complex. And that, of course, is where "democracy" comes into play. Democracy for the rich. But some of these conflagrations are titantic because so much money is at stake.

No, America's ruling class does not encompass a bunch of secret meetings where secret conspirators plot and plan nefariously to carve up the world in Dr Evil's secret location at Goldman Sachs.

In that context, I just don't buy into many of the "truther" narratives---whether regarding Roswell, 9/11, Newtown or [as silly as this is] Russia. Where is the hard evidence?

Instead, the ruling class "conspiracy" narrative [mine, anyway] unfolds more like this:

From the Bullfrog Films review of the film The American Ruling Class:

The American Ruling Class is one of the most unusual films to be made in America in recent years--both in terms of form and content. The form is a "dramatic-documentary-musical" and the content is our country's most taboo topic: class, power and privilege in our nominally democratic republic.

At bottom the film is a morality tale, the story of two Yale students (played by Harvard men) who seek their opportunities upon graduation. As the renowned essayist, author and longtime Harper's magazine editor Lewis Lapham conducts them through the corridors of power: Pentagon press briefings, the World Economic Forum, philanthropic foundations, Washington law firms, corporations, banks, the Council on Foreign Relations, and New York society dinners--our two representative graduates "one rich and the other not so rich" must struggle with their responsibilities in "a world collaterally damaged by the magic of money and the miracles of science." The real-life luminaries they meet on their journey become characters in a story about power, its responsibilities and abuses.

All the while "the Mighty Wurlitzer" plays on, a reference to the massive propaganda apparatus invented by the CIA's Frank Wisner, here used to signify the nocturnal philosophy of acquisition and imperial hubris which continually calls to the young men, the siren song of careerist myopia that was bred into their bones at school.

As we watch these two young men wend their way through what is only a slight fictionalization of their actual lives and choices, as we meet former Secretaries of State and Defense, directors of the Trilateral Commission and the Council on Foreign Relations, the publisher of The New York Times, Kurt Vonnegut, Howard Zinn, Barbara Ehrenreich, Robert Altman and a host of others, we have to ask along with Mr. Lapham: "To what end the genius of the Wall Street banks and the force of the Pentagon's colossal weapons? Where does America discover the wisdom to play with its wonderful toys?" The possible answers move beyond the empty distinction of party affiliation and into the heart of American Oligarchy itself. By film's end, the young men must decide: Should they seek to rule the world, or to save it?

In this context, crucial aspects of American foreign and domestic policy are in fact rooted in political economy, in crony capitalism, in stuff that really does unfold behind the curtains.

Obama Inc. fits quite comfortably into this carefully calibrated cache. His first administration was veritably bursting at the seams with men and women of this ilk. For example, Bilderberg, CFR, TC folks alone included Hillary Clinton [and Bill of course], Tim Geithner, Larry Summers, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Rahm Emanuel, George Mitchell, Robert Rubin, Paul Volcker, Robert Gates, James Jones, Tom Daschle, Eric Shinseki, Michael Froman, Susan Rice, Jack Reed, Eric Holder, Janet Napolitano, Mona Sutphen.

Hey, it is just commonsense to point out that those who own and operate the political and economic instruments that sustain the global economy, are going to want to connect the dots with others like them around the world. They have "shared interests" that evolve from and center around transactions that swell well up into the hundreds of billions of dollars.

So, no, they don't need to schedule a secret rendevous where they can exchange secret handshakes and secret code words with the other secret participants.

If you grasp the manner in which these folks get together to sustain their own interests you begin to get a clearer sense of why a "progressive" agenda hardly ever comes up at all. Well, other than as rhetorical camouflage to dupe the unabashed liberal intellectuals who still believe that ObamaLand and BushWorld are the antithesis of each other.

And yet, with respect to many social issues, they really are, right?

And while it is true the neoconservatives in the ruling class disdain these "internationalists", they are both attached at the hip to Wall Street and the military industrial complex.

This is where the CTs need to aim their narratives. Or so it seems to me.


This in my view is what makes the world go around. At least in "the West". All that other stuff -- Kennedy assassination, Watergate, operation cointelpro, operation chaos, iran-contra, the war on terror etc. -- is all subsumed in that. More intriguing perhaps is how [or even if] China can be subsumed in it too.
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Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
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Re: The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby Silhouette » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:13 am

Gobbo wrote:I am nearing 11111 and we are nearing the end of conspiracies in the sense of how most view them now.

My time here is almost at an end.

You have 5371 posts to go before you reach 11111111111111 in binary.
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Re: The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby Gobbo » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:29 am

rununder wrote:That doesn't change how much of an embarrassment it is, when the fearmongers keep painting Boston bombing as an "inside job", when it clearly was not, and clearly was caused by Islamic Jihadists. Then, these fools have the audacity to not back down from their claims, and further try to rationalize everything away into a conspiracy.

It's just a huge embarrassment for them, for their followers, and for everybody who buys into their fearmongering garbage. It demonstrates a lack of decency and intelligence, ruled over by fear more than anything else.


Someone hasn't been paying attention. You should check out the other thread.

This is probably - no, easily - the most obvious false flag that has ever happened.

Also Glenn Beck isn't a conspiracy theorist. He's some talking head reading a script that is given to him. Please refrain from ever even mentioning him again. He is a complete waste of time.
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Re: The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby Gobbo » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:35 am

Stoic Guardian wrote:I Hate rolling stone magazine.


Why? At least they are not completely controlled.
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Re: The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby Moreno » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:03 am

No, America's ruling class does not encompass a bunch of secret meetings where secret conspirators plot and plan nefariously to carve up the world in Dr Evil's secret location at Goldman Sachs.
What year did the ruling classes stop doing this, do you think?
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Re: The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby Dan~ » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:32 am

Banks are like the manipulators of capitalism. The guys with the most money have the most control, but in capitalism, the more money you have, the more money you get. So the richest of the rich get richer. I'm not surprised by this article. I think we should all realize that private ownership doesn't require capitalism. Private ownership is ok, and it doesn't require things like corporations before it can exist in some good form.
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Re: The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby rununder » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:43 am

Moreno wrote:We have a choice between two main conspiracies, both of them cause fear, so I don't see how adhering to one is fearmongering. Whoever was behind it it was terrorism, instilling terror, that is. Further you are saying that it was caused by Jihadist Terrorists and was not an inside job. But these are not mutually exclusive as can be seen in a number of posts in the other thread on 'what happened in Boston.' And then of course saying they embarrassed themselves could entail demonstrating this rather than stating it.

This is a brilliant point by Reno. Gobbo, you should pay attention to this.

There are two types of fearmongers, the conspiracy theorists, and the actual Islamic Jihadi terrorists, and other "terrorist" groups, who seek power by imposing fear upon their victims. The extreme contheorists, like Alex Jones, are wracked with paranoia. They're literally taken over, and consumed by fear. But, they see fear as something internal, as a "big brother" government. It's a fear within, not a fear without. It's fear of your own family.

The terrorists represent an external fear, of racial and cultural outsiders. So there are two very different types of fears. One thing I've noticed, as I've been paying attention to all the going ons of our society for the past decade, is that the external Islamic terrorists love to commit a terrorist act, and then the contheorists blame themselves. So the actual, muslims committing holy war, are not blamed. They're innocent, according to the contheorists. Because the contheorists always point to themselves.

Some contheorists are extremely racist, and believe that white people are the true evil. So it's impossible for them to think that muslims are to blame. Some contheorists will never blame Islam, or muslims, for a terrorist act, but will instead point to the white man "illuminati" Satanic group theory. Alex Jones is an anti-imperialist. Alex Jones contheories are drowning in anti-imperialist flair.

So each group of fearmongers has a different agenda. You could even say, that each group of conspiracy theorists are their own conspiracy. And they are.

The conspiracy theorists, don't realize, that they are in fact, creating their own conspiracies, and developing future conspiracies, by giving their enemies an inside look into what they fear already. If the illuminati does not exist now, then the contheorists will in fact create it retroactively, by giving their enemies an open door policy into their inner psychological weaknesses.
obe wrote:The ubermensch is a relational object. It is as much an uber, as it is an unter. The uber and the unter over what? It's self, that is what. It can't ever understand itself, hence Descartes is wrong. Leibnitz is indiscernible. Kant is not a synthesis, (and Nietzche has no takeoff point). How do we go from kant to post modernisms? Well of course through a failed phenomenologically reduced/deconstructed world, a world of signs, and postures, a world of bad faith, or irresolute hypocrisy, (the cynics were right), to today: Dan's edge, the very edge, gasping for relatedness, through attempts at escape through a door marked no exist, into the illusion of virtual reality of a faux enetertaining world of silent screens, and robbed souls. This is what the ubermensch is all about. A Buddha/socrates, a simple man, non deceitful, and brutally gentle, pre conditionally wise.
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Re: The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby eyesinthedark » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:53 am

So we're fucked, what do we do now, any ideas Gobbo?
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Re: The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby eyesinthedark » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:03 am

So we're fucked, what do we do now, any ideas Gobbo?
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Re: The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby eyesinthedark » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:04 am

I knew we've been fucked for some time, 2007 was the year I discovered Alex Jones, David Icke and all the rest of them - Jim Marrs, Texe Marrs, Maxwell, Tsarion, Freeman, etc. Even before then I had a few sucpicions, with 9/11 and all. This article is just another nail in the coffin, another nail in the North American, European and Japanese dream, one nail in a long history of nails that more/or less began on 9/11, or if you want to go further back in time, since 1913, or even earlier. I think it's been more than established now, more than established. We have to enter a new phase, we need to begin looking for solutions or what's the point of all this info?
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Re: The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby Gobbo » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:10 am

You guys are so negative. If you actually read my posts you would see I usually try to keep a positive outlook.

I actually think we're not too bad off. When I look at how fast the last generation is passing laws, versus how fast our generation is evolving and just generally being quite different from our parents, I see us as outpacing them. I don't know or hear of very many illuminati 25-year-olds. Perhaps I am projecting but I just think things are getting different.

I'm just of the persuasion that I would rather not have to look at it in this 'who is going to win' type race. That's why I get antsy.

It should be clear what we need to do as a species. Anyone who can't see the obvious truths when they are so clearly being thrown into our face right now is an evolutionary dead end, and you don't need to listen to them. I mean... lol.. I think the last thing you can say about Alex Jones is that he's afraid, like that dude did however many times in his post. Crazy... possibly poisoned or HAARP'ed or something, but not afraid.

Eventually these people that just put no thought into anything will be weeded out. The world is turning very, very competitive.
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Re: The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby Gobbo » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:17 am

Take nutrition, for example, there is the sense in which if you don't research everything to some degree, you put yourself in serious harm. How many conspiracy theorists do you hear eating a bunch of food that is horrible for you?
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Re: The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby Gobbo » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:20 am

Dan~ wrote:Banks are like the manipulators of capitalism. The guys with the most money have the most control, but in capitalism, the more money you have, the more money you get. So the richest of the rich get richer. I'm not surprised by this article. I think we should all realize that private ownership doesn't require capitalism. Private ownership is ok, and it doesn't require things like corporations before it can exist in some good form.



Agreed.


This is kind of out of left field, but I feel like in the future this is what should happen: You get some sort of talisman that is like a super nano-machine matrix that takes the shape of whatever you choose at say 17 years old. Whatever you feel like doing with your life, you get to choose the ultimate tool.

Instead of incrementally rolling out technology like I'm sure they do with the military, just start making things for the longterm.
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Re: The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby rununder » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:24 am

There is no such thing as an "objectively healthy" food. Should carnivorous predators eat vegetables, even though countless millenniums have passed with them eating meat? Should an herbivore switch to eating meat? The conspiracy theorists claiming "healthy food" are just another representation of already present biology. What is healthy for the contheorist is not healthy for all, and vice versa.
obe wrote:The ubermensch is a relational object. It is as much an uber, as it is an unter. The uber and the unter over what? It's self, that is what. It can't ever understand itself, hence Descartes is wrong. Leibnitz is indiscernible. Kant is not a synthesis, (and Nietzche has no takeoff point). How do we go from kant to post modernisms? Well of course through a failed phenomenologically reduced/deconstructed world, a world of signs, and postures, a world of bad faith, or irresolute hypocrisy, (the cynics were right), to today: Dan's edge, the very edge, gasping for relatedness, through attempts at escape through a door marked no exist, into the illusion of virtual reality of a faux enetertaining world of silent screens, and robbed souls. This is what the ubermensch is all about. A Buddha/socrates, a simple man, non deceitful, and brutally gentle, pre conditionally wise.
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Re: The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby eyesinthedark » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:24 am

There's nothing wrong with negativity, so long as it's fruitful and productive, or has the potential to become fruitful and productive, negativity just means you have to change something or adapt somehow. Too much positivity in the face of adversity means you're in a coma. I'm done with talking about conspiracies for now, there's no point, if I comment on political or economic matters, it'll be more about what I'm doing or going to do and less about what I think they're doing or going to do. I've noticed there's excess talk about them in the alternative media and deficient talk about us. When you talk all day long about them, you're turning yourself into a mere passive observer of events as opposed to an active participant.
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Re: The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby Moreno » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:57 am

rununder wrote:There is no such thing as an "objectively healthy" food. Should carnivorous predators eat vegetables, even though countless millenniums have passed with them eating meat? Should an herbivore switch to eating meat? The conspiracy theorists claiming "healthy food" are just another representation of already present biology. What is healthy for the contheorist is not healthy for all, and vice versa.

I'm not sure that he actually did assert that there is objectively healthy food, Gobbo that is. But there are certainly foods that are unhealthy for nearly all homo sapians. And then if conspiracy theorists - this would be everyone who does not think 9/11 was because of pilot errors - are asserted by Gobbo to not eat a lot of unhealthy food, either for them or for humans in general, this could actually be tested. It is not a meaningless generalization.
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Re: The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby eyesinthedark » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:58 am

I think I eat pretty healthy.

So they've taken over our economic system and stolen trillions of dollars translates into - we need to eat healthy, no no no. Yes, we need to eat healthy, a pyramid is built from the bottom-up, not the top-down, the foundation is the gut. However, we need more than a change of waste-line and to feel and be healthier, we need to change the political and economic landscape, radically, and I think we should begin by exploring options way outside the norm, options that empower individuals and small groups as opposed to large corporations and institutions that can easily be infiltrated and subverted and have long since been infiltrated and subverted. The answers aren't so obvious, not what we should eat and drink, and not what political and economic systems should be in place, if they were, we wouldn't be in this mess we got ourselves into in the first place. Dieting requires more than research, it requires creativity, one has to sift through all the bullshit out there, utilizing common sense and ones own senses, both internal and external, to determine what's effective for them and perhaps those with similar constitutions. Finding the right diet and lifestyle isn't easy, it requires a great deal of effort, trial and error. Much needs to be discussed besides - them them them, they they they.
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Re: The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby rununder » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:11 am

What if somebody wants to be an illuminati, mindless social slave-drone? Have you contheorists ever considered that possibility, that most of the NWO slaves actually want to be slaves, and enjoy their slavery? Have you considered that the illuminati food tastes better, or is better, than the contheorist food? While Alex Jones is busy filtering his water and screening his food, another half of the world is starving to death, and NWO food is just as good as anything else. Contheorists demonstrate a complete lack of empathy on this point, and privilege. Only privileged people can afford to filter water and screen "bad illuminati food".

And I can almost assure you, without a doubt, that the contheorists do not doubt themselves. The contheorists do not consider "what if I'm wrong?" For all everybody knows, the illuminati food may just be better and healthier than the contheorist food. You don't know. What are you, a nutritionist? Who sponsors you, the FDA?
obe wrote:The ubermensch is a relational object. It is as much an uber, as it is an unter. The uber and the unter over what? It's self, that is what. It can't ever understand itself, hence Descartes is wrong. Leibnitz is indiscernible. Kant is not a synthesis, (and Nietzche has no takeoff point). How do we go from kant to post modernisms? Well of course through a failed phenomenologically reduced/deconstructed world, a world of signs, and postures, a world of bad faith, or irresolute hypocrisy, (the cynics were right), to today: Dan's edge, the very edge, gasping for relatedness, through attempts at escape through a door marked no exist, into the illusion of virtual reality of a faux enetertaining world of silent screens, and robbed souls. This is what the ubermensch is all about. A Buddha/socrates, a simple man, non deceitful, and brutally gentle, pre conditionally wise.
rununder
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Re: The End of Secret Conspiracy

Postby rununder » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:13 am

eyesinthedark wrote:Dieting requires more than research, it requires creativity,

:text-thankyouyellow:
obe wrote:The ubermensch is a relational object. It is as much an uber, as it is an unter. The uber and the unter over what? It's self, that is what. It can't ever understand itself, hence Descartes is wrong. Leibnitz is indiscernible. Kant is not a synthesis, (and Nietzche has no takeoff point). How do we go from kant to post modernisms? Well of course through a failed phenomenologically reduced/deconstructed world, a world of signs, and postures, a world of bad faith, or irresolute hypocrisy, (the cynics were right), to today: Dan's edge, the very edge, gasping for relatedness, through attempts at escape through a door marked no exist, into the illusion of virtual reality of a faux enetertaining world of silent screens, and robbed souls. This is what the ubermensch is all about. A Buddha/socrates, a simple man, non deceitful, and brutally gentle, pre conditionally wise.
rununder
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