Death to Taxation

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Death to Taxation

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun May 11, 2014 4:06 pm

It's official, I am against taxation. To have a sweeping taxation system basically implies that the citizen is property of the state. A lot of things would not be possible without taxation, but the upside would be that we'd all be free to just go where we want to go and not be tied to the government we happen to be born under. Death to taxation, death to the owner-government.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: Death to Taxation

Postby Kriswest » Tue May 13, 2014 10:46 pm

You could look at it that way or look at taxes as a payroll for employees. Would you work for your employer for free?
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Re: Death to Taxation

Postby James S Saint » Tue May 13, 2014 10:50 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:It's official, I am against taxation. To have a sweeping taxation system basically implies that the citizen is property of the state. A lot of things would not be possible without taxation, but the upside would be that we'd all be free to just go where we want to go and not be tied to the government we happen to be born under. Death to taxation, death to the owner-government.

Back when the USA was the hope of the world, the USA was entirely against taxation. That is because the founders of the Constitution already knew that any kind of forced monetary payments would soon become manipulated into a slave-state situation, just as has occurred. That is also why the Catholic church forbid Usury.

Money in itself isn't the evil, but it makes being evil so damn easy.
The solution is to make something else (something better) even easier.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
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Re: Death to Taxation

Postby Mr Reasonable » Tue May 13, 2014 10:58 pm

Basically implies? I dunno about that one man.

I think it might imply that people benefit from society in a way that requires them to give something back. The world needs accountants, and so we need them to figure out who's benefitting and how so that we can tax people and provide benefits and have everyone equal as our ideals suggest they should be. I dunno man. "Property of the state"? That's pretty bold. You might say it implies that everyone has a duty to the state and I could go with that to a degree.
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Re: Death to Taxation

Postby James S Saint » Tue May 13, 2014 11:17 pm

mr reasonable wrote:Basically implies? I dunno about that one man.

I think it might imply that people benefit from society in a way that requires them to give something back. The world needs accountants, and so we need them to figure out who's benefitting and how so that we can tax people and provide benefits and have everyone equal as our ideals suggest they should be. I dunno man. "Property of the state"? That's pretty bold. You might say it implies that everyone has a duty to the state and I could go with that to a degree.

...Naive perspective.

Who do you think sets "our ideals"?
Whoever you think, you would be wrong about that.
And thus there is someone setting "our ideals" whom you do not know.
And yet you are obligated to pay what they say.

Realize that when the Senate implied that it would be investigating where the FED was placing the money it was gaining from the people, the FED records were immediately moved off shore so as to prevent Congress from seeing where the money is going.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Posts: 25976
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Re: Death to Taxation

Postby Dan~ » Wed May 14, 2014 12:06 am

Taxes can be replaced by independently owned police forces for example, running on donations or some kind of plan like that.
The above sentence probably sounds like crap, but what I mean is that you can keep your capitalism and have no single government.
What ever the government did that was good, it can be kept as a business or even a corporation instead.
Or we could put capital away and revert to actual products as valuables.
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Re: Death to Taxation

Postby Maia » Wed May 14, 2014 12:13 am

James S Saint wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:It's official, I am against taxation. To have a sweeping taxation system basically implies that the citizen is property of the state. A lot of things would not be possible without taxation, but the upside would be that we'd all be free to just go where we want to go and not be tied to the government we happen to be born under. Death to taxation, death to the owner-government.

Back when the USA was the hope of the world, the USA was entirely against taxation. That is because the founders of the Constitution already knew that any kind of forced monetary payments would soon become manipulated into a slave-state situation, just as has occurred. That is also why the Catholic church forbid Usury.

Money in itself isn't the evil, but it makes being evil so damn easy.
The solution is to make something else (something better) even easier.


When, exactly, was the USA the hope of the world? It was created in a masonic conspiracy, bankrolled by France.
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Re: Death to Taxation

Postby Maia » Wed May 14, 2014 12:14 am

Dan~ wrote:Taxes can be replaced by independently owned police forces for example, running on donations or some kind of plan like that.
The above sentence probably sounds like crap, but what I mean is that you can keep your capitalism and have no single government.
What ever the government did that was good, it can be kept as a business or even a corporation instead.
Or we could put capital away and revert to actual products as valuables.


Without a state, how can you have money? And without money, how can anyone pay for anything?
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Re: Death to Taxation

Postby Dan~ » Wed May 14, 2014 12:31 am

Maia wrote:
Dan~ wrote:Taxes can be replaced by independently owned police forces for example, running on donations or some kind of plan like that.
The above sentence probably sounds like crap, but what I mean is that you can keep your capitalism and have no single government.
What ever the government did that was good, it can be kept as a business or even a corporation instead.
Or we could put capital away and revert to actual products as valuables.

Without a state, how can you have money? And without money, how can anyone pay for anything?

We could use gold coins for example.
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Re: Death to Taxation

Postby Maia » Wed May 14, 2014 12:41 am

Dan~ wrote:
Maia wrote:
Dan~ wrote:Taxes can be replaced by independently owned police forces for example, running on donations or some kind of plan like that.
The above sentence probably sounds like crap, but what I mean is that you can keep your capitalism and have no single government.
What ever the government did that was good, it can be kept as a business or even a corporation instead.
Or we could put capital away and revert to actual products as valuables.

Without a state, how can you have money? And without money, how can anyone pay for anything?

We could use gold coins for example.


And the value of gold would be set by whom?
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Re: Death to Taxation

Postby Dan~ » Wed May 14, 2014 12:53 am

Maia wrote:And the value of gold would be set by whom?

By a single world government dictating exact value for everything from a glass of water to a load of whole wheat bread.
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Re: Death to Taxation

Postby Eric_The_Pipe » Wed May 14, 2014 12:53 am

Maia wrote:
Dan~ wrote:
Maia wrote:Without a state, how can you have money? And without money, how can anyone pay for anything?

We could use gold coins for example.


And the value of gold would be set by whom?
The people trading the gold coins for other things.
Last edited by Eric_The_Pipe on Wed May 14, 2014 1:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Death to Taxation

Postby Dan~ » Wed May 14, 2014 12:54 am

Eric_The_Pipe wrote:The people trading the gold coins for other things.

That might even work.
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Re: Death to Taxation

Postby Eric_The_Pipe » Wed May 14, 2014 1:00 am

Dan~ wrote:
Eric_The_Pipe wrote:The people trading the gold coins for other things.

That might even work.
It would, except the result last time was people using paper promissory notes, usually gained from gold smiths. Paper is easier to carry around than gold, which is a very dense metal. Add to that, that the digital world exists now. All sorts of problems are caused by attempting to go back to gold, or even the gold standard.


Which its self just an arbitrary limitation on the amount of money in circulation.
“Give a man a fish and he will ask for tartar sauce and French fries! Moreover, some politician who wants his vote will declare all these things to be among his ‘basic rights’” – An old saying rewritten by a follower of Thomas Sowell

"It's true that the bastards would win. But we shouldn't shut down a system just because the bastards win. A good system should be like a hamster wheel for bastards hooked up an electric generator. A well designed system is not one that prevents bastards from winning, but one that generates a lot of positive externalities from bastards trying to beat each other. And that's exactly what markets do. Markets entice bastards, they reward bastards, and the bastards love them, but as they operate they generate a lot of good that inadvertently benefits everyone else." - Carleas

The Newest EconPop: Economics of Demolition Man

The man, Thomas Sowell: Wealth, Poverty and Politics

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Re: Death to Taxation

Postby Dan~ » Wed May 14, 2014 1:08 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutterite
I think making a small commune like they did is still possible even when living in a country. It is like a sub-society, and could be an oasis.
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Re: Death to Taxation

Postby Eric_The_Pipe » Wed May 14, 2014 1:59 am

Dan~ wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutterite
I think making a small commune like they did is still possible even when living in a country. It is like a sub-society, and could be an oasis.

Possible, hell yes. The Amish and Mennonites prove that it is possible. I would have a problem with demanding that everyone has to join such a thing.
“Give a man a fish and he will ask for tartar sauce and French fries! Moreover, some politician who wants his vote will declare all these things to be among his ‘basic rights’” – An old saying rewritten by a follower of Thomas Sowell

"It's true that the bastards would win. But we shouldn't shut down a system just because the bastards win. A good system should be like a hamster wheel for bastards hooked up an electric generator. A well designed system is not one that prevents bastards from winning, but one that generates a lot of positive externalities from bastards trying to beat each other. And that's exactly what markets do. Markets entice bastards, they reward bastards, and the bastards love them, but as they operate they generate a lot of good that inadvertently benefits everyone else." - Carleas

The Newest EconPop: Economics of Demolition Man

The man, Thomas Sowell: Wealth, Poverty and Politics

Sowell's Writing
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Re: Death to Taxation

Postby James S Saint » Wed May 14, 2014 2:10 am

The only problem as of yet unresolved, is uniting them for the right reason during these dark times. United by the right reason, no one would be objecting to joining one of the variety available.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Posts: 25976
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Re: Death to Taxation

Postby Eric_The_Pipe » Wed May 14, 2014 2:44 am

James S Saint wrote:The only problem as of yet unresolved, is uniting them for the right reason during these dark times. United by the right reason, no one would be objecting to joining one of the variety available.

At least until one became far more successful than another. Then there would be war, or battle at the very least.
“Give a man a fish and he will ask for tartar sauce and French fries! Moreover, some politician who wants his vote will declare all these things to be among his ‘basic rights’” – An old saying rewritten by a follower of Thomas Sowell

"It's true that the bastards would win. But we shouldn't shut down a system just because the bastards win. A good system should be like a hamster wheel for bastards hooked up an electric generator. A well designed system is not one that prevents bastards from winning, but one that generates a lot of positive externalities from bastards trying to beat each other. And that's exactly what markets do. Markets entice bastards, they reward bastards, and the bastards love them, but as they operate they generate a lot of good that inadvertently benefits everyone else." - Carleas

The Newest EconPop: Economics of Demolition Man

The man, Thomas Sowell: Wealth, Poverty and Politics

Sowell's Writing
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Re: Death to Taxation

Postby James S Saint » Wed May 14, 2014 2:58 am

Eric_The_Pipe wrote:
James S Saint wrote:The only problem as of yet unresolved, is uniting them for the right reason during these dark times. United by the right reason, no one would be objecting to joining one of the variety available.

At least until one became far more successful than another. Then there would be war, or battle at the very least.

Not really.
But that is why it has to be for the right reason.
What is required is something very doable, but the problem is that people have become so accustom to the vast variety of things that don't work, they have only confusion in their minds, thus no explanation gets very far. They have to see it in action merely to know what questions to ask. And I can tell you that taxation wouldn't be an issue at all (wouldn't even come up).
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Death to Taxation

Postby Arminius » Thu May 15, 2014 5:20 am

Death to taxation? Okay. And who guarantees that it really works and does not lead to chaos and after that to very much more and higher taxes?
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