What's so bad about the New World Order?

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What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby Maia » Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:46 am

To start with I should state that I don't believe that when politicians have used this term, they meant the same thing as the conspiratards do by it. But let's look at the worst case scenario, and try and decide what's wrong with it.

One world government
This is inevitable, in the long run, though none of us alive today may live to see it. History has been a gradual process of smaller states merging to form larger ones. When there is only one single state, war, we may hope, will become a thing of the past.

Banning guns
This is only really applicable to the USA, since almost everywhere else that claims to be civilised has done so long ago. Banning guns creates a peaceful and less violent society, and don't believe the gun company propaganda that tells you otherwise.

Socialism
All modern states have adopted some measure of socialism, even the USA in a very rudimentary sense. Countries like Finland and the Netherlands are now leading the way with the next phase, giving everyone a basic income whether they work or not.

Anti-Christianity
This is a particular bugbear of the conspiracy theorists, so I might as well address it too. Christianity, and all monotheistic religions by their very nature, preach exclusivity and totalitarianism. I don't think the world would be worse off if they ceased to exist.
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Re: What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby The Golden Turd » Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:59 am

If Christians ceased to exist, the motivation not to abort you, or to have you put down at birth for being defective like they are starting to do in the Netherlands, would likely be none existent, given the grip anti-christians have had on the university. Do you see worth in your existence? If you do, then you oppose it on this point, if not, then you shouldn't be making points to begin with.

In regards to guns, it's a mute point..... they can be printed, using 3D printers now, and other formulas other than gunpowder exist. Ban it or not, it's going to be within a few hours reach of every household within two generations. US has the advantage of laws and law enforcement already in existence, well used to the wide spread availability of fire arms, I think Europe especially will be in a state of shock once everyone prints out their own gun a night after a terrorist attack, and a sizeable minority over times becomes a sizeable majority possessing some sort of weapons. Most nations won't go the way of Italy, completely outlawing violence

Which brings up a obvious issue of Federal Synoecism and Regional Autonomy..... legislative disputes (US was born from a revolt against the supremacy of Parlimentary Sovereignty, we simply won't consent unless we get representation, and checks in balances, and a written constitution written out in advance, we won't enter into the absurdities of international law on the basis of unwritten constitutions, where a few centuries of American law will be overturned by hidden constitutional presidents inherited by Xeer Law in Somalia, or a hadith in Sharia.

Yeah, short of WW3, or a very long period of varying levels of regional autonomy and slow merger of laws and legal forms, I don't think a world government is going to work.

Remember, Americans have guns so we can kill you Maia if you ever try to take us over again..... it's the original impulse for our paranoia. Were unlike to disarm just because the British want us to.

Besides, we hardly have a monopoly on private firearm usage, it's merely the international magnet because of idiots like Smears/Mr. Reasonable hoards them, get into drugs, then in many cases it further escalates to supply guns to gangs, etc.

But our crime rate outside of inner city gang violence is generally lower than England, so in many ways, it works. Cities like Detroit are even encouraging everyone to arm, it's lowering the rates of violence.

Everyone on earth should get one hand grenade. If the world is still around ten years later, we can talk about this world government. I think most Americans can handle one hand grenade each, but I am skeptical about Europe.... doubt Africa would survive, or the middle east.

If we can pass the Give One Hand Grenade Per Person Test and have the world remain mostly peaceful..... no wars, the rare crime using them, then Ill consent. Means we can trust each other.
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Re: What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby Maia » Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:25 am

Turd Ferguson wrote:If Christians ceased to exist, the motivation not to abort you, or to have you put down at birth for being defective like they are starting to do in the Netherlands, would likely be none existent, given the grip anti-christians have had on the university. Do you see worth in your existence? If you do, then you oppose it on this point, if not, then you shouldn't be making points to begin with.

In regards to guns, it's a mute point..... they can be printed, using 3D printers now, and other formulas other than gunpowder exist. Ban it or not, it's going to be within a few hours reach of every household within two generations. US has the advantage of laws and law enforcement already in existence, well used to the wide spread availability of fire arms, I think Europe especially will be in a state of shock once everyone prints out their own gun a night after a terrorist attack, and a sizeable minority over times becomes a sizeable majority possessing some sort of weapons. Most nations won't go the way of Italy, completely outlawing violence

Which brings up a obvious issue of Federal Synoecism and Regional Autonomy..... legislative disputes (US was born from a revolt against the supremacy of Parlimentary Sovereignty, we simply won't consent unless we get representation, and checks in balances, and a written constitution written out in advance, we won't enter into the absurdities of international law on the basis of unwritten constitutions, where a few centuries of American law will be overturned by hidden constitutional presidents inherited by Xeer Law in Somalia, or a hadith in Sharia.

Yeah, short of WW3, or a very long period of varying levels of regional autonomy and slow merger of laws and legal forms, I don't think a world government is going to work.

Remember, Americans have guns so we can kill you Maia if you ever try to take us over again..... it's the original impulse for our paranoia. Were unlike to disarm just because the British want us to.

Besides, we hardly have a monopoly on private firearm usage, it's merely the international magnet because of idiots like Smears/Mr. Reasonable hoards them, get into drugs, then in many cases it further escalates to supply guns to gangs, etc.

But our crime rate outside of inner city gang violence is generally lower than England, so in many ways, it works. Cities like Detroit are even encouraging everyone to arm, it's lowering the rates of violence.

Everyone on earth should get one hand grenade. If the world is still around ten years later, we can talk about this world government. I think most Americans can handle one hand grenade each, but I am skeptical about Europe.... doubt Africa would survive, or the middle east.

If we can pass the Give One Hand Grenade Per Person Test and have the world remain mostly peaceful..... no wars, the rare crime using them, then Ill consent. Means we can trust each other.


+++If Christians ceased to exist, the motivation not to abort you, or to have you put down at birth for being defective like they are starting to do in the Netherlands, would likely be none existent, given the grip anti-christians have had on the university. Do you see worth in your existence? If you do, then you oppose it on this point, if not, then you shouldn't be making points to begin with.+++

Christians do not have a monopoly on morality. If you need the fear of an eternity in hell to make you a good person, then you're not a good person. This probably accounts for why all the violent insane loonies end up in Christianity and/or its fellow monotheistic religions.

+++In regards to guns, it's a mute point..... they can be printed, using 3D printers now, and other formulas other than gunpowder exist. Ban it or not, it's going to be within a few hours reach of every household within two generations. US has the advantage of laws and law enforcement already in existence, well used to the wide spread availability of fire arms, I think Europe especially will be in a state of shock once everyone prints out their own gun a night after a terrorist attack, and a sizeable minority over times becomes a sizeable majority possessing some sort of weapons. Most nations won't go the way of Italy, completely outlawing violence+++

Under such a nightmare scenario I think most European countries would do almost anything to prevent themselves becoming what America already is. I'm sure the technology to disrupt 3D printers from a distance wouldn't be too difficult to invent, if it was necessary.

+++Remember, Americans have guns so we can kill you Maia if you ever try to take us over again..... it's the original impulse for our paranoia. Were unlike to disarm just because the British want us to.+++

What do you mean by take you over "again"? The first time we took over Amercia it is true that the Americans didn't have any guns, but it was mostly disease that wiped them out. What you've done with them since, on their own land, is disgusting.

+++But our crime rate outside of inner city gang violence is generally lower than England, so in many ways, it works. Cities like Detroit are even encouraging everyone to arm, it's lowering the rates of violence.+++

Why don't you try comparing like with like? If you remove American inner cities from the statistics, you need to remove English inner cities too.

+++If we can pass the Give One Hand Grenade Per Person Test and have the world remain mostly peaceful..... no wars, the rare crime using them, then Ill consent. Means we can trust each other.+++

Ok, give me one then. Still better, a gun. Would you have any objection?
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Re: What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby The Golden Turd » Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:42 am

I have one objection, I would be given a seriously hard time at the post office trying to mail you one.

Christians do not have a monopoly on morality. If you need the fear of an eternity in hell to make you a good person, then you're not a good person. This probably accounts for why all the violent insane loonies end up in Christianity and/or its fellow monotheistic religions.


I don't have a fear of hell for aborting. You inserted that presumption, as well as the presumption hell is a invention of monotheistic religions. In fairness, most research done is self evident, comparing pictures of Pagan Etruscan Hell to pictures of Christian Hell. Hell is described differently between different church fathers, and many reject the image of fires and demons with pitchforks, but that is most definitely a Pagan image we have most commonly have, borrowed from Pagan religion.

I suppose the imagery in tombs is what drawls most into reading about it,..... so Ill give you a little leeway in not knowing that. I've done a lot of work interpreting with others later Pompeiian funeral murals in tombs and on Villa walls. Stuff I would probably not be interested in reading if I couldn't see.

The concept of hell exists all over the world, is hardly the only reason to create laws for a legislature, or construct moral codes. I can't recall a mention of it as the basis of any lawcode, just occasionally contracts and sermons.

But this exactly is yet another reason we can't have a world government, your showing how immature the British are. Last time they tried to set up a world government the sun never settled on, like..... everyone opted out, in many cases violently. Maybe 40-50 years is a bit too soon for another Brit to demand unreasonable subservience to her vision, last British Lady to demand this was the Queen, everyone cept the Pitcairn Islands and Fauklands told her to shove it. She waved bye in reply, in that odd creepy handwave she does.
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Re: What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby Maia » Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:50 am

Turd Ferguson wrote:I have one objection, I would be given a seriously hard time at the list office trying to mail you one.

Christians do not have a monopoly on morality. If you need the fear of an eternity in hell to make you a good person, then you're not a good person. This probably accounts for why all the violent insane loonies end up in Christianity and/or its fellow monotheistic religions.


I don't have a fear of hell for aborting. You inserted that presumption, as well as the presumption hell is a invention of monotheistic religions. In fairness, most research done is self evident, comparing pictures of Pagan Etruscan Hell to pictures of Christian Hell. Hell is described differently between different church fathers, and many reject the image of fires and demons with pitchforks, but that is most definitely a Pagan image we have most commonly have, borrowed from Pagan religion.

I suppose the imagery in tombs is what drawls most into reading about it,..... so Ill give you a little leeway in not knowing that. I've done a lot of work interpreting with others later Pompeiian funeral murals in tombs and on Villa walls. Stuff I would probably not be interested in reading if I couldn't see.

The concept of hell exists all over the world, is hardly the only reason to create laws for a legislature, or construct moral codes. I can't recall a mention of it as the basis of any lawcode, just occasionally contracts and sermons.

But this exactly is yet another reason we can't have a world government, your showing how immature the British are. Last time they tried to set up a world government the sun never settled on, like..... everyone opted out, in many cases violently. Maybe 40-50 years is a bit too soon for another Brit to demand unreasonable subservience to her vision, last British Lady to demand this was the Queen, everyone cept the Pitcairn Islands and Fauklands told her to shove it. She waved bye in reply, in that odd creepy handwave she does.


My point is that Pagans and atheists have morality too. I, for one, would never countenance abortion, as I believe all life is sacred.

The American Revolution was plotted by Freemasons and merchants and was a capitalist coup. These people have controlled you ever since, and one of their most effective methods is to instill fear in you so you buy more guns from them, thereby creating even more violence and fear. As for the rest of the British Empire, are you aware that a large part of it still recognises the Queen as its head of state? We get the best of both worlds, in that we have a group of friendly nations around the world with whom we share close ties of kinship and culture, but no longer have the expense of administering them.
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Re: What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby The Golden Turd » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:07 pm

Actually, the entirety of the British Empire recognizes the Queen as head if state. I mean, maybe the penguins on South Georgia Island don't, but that's another issue.

The British Commonwealth recognizes the Queen as head of the Commonwealth, but not as the head if states of each country.... I know both India and Mozambique are Commonwealth Members who don't accept her as head of state, and a few Caribbean countries are debating going Republic.

The US has full qualification to join the Commonwealth, but there us little point, WTO trumps it, and we don't know how to play cricket, seriously, not a single one of us, so we would be no fun at the Commonwealth Games.

And I'm well aware about morality, I'm the forum's go to guy on systems of ancient Ethics and Morality, as well as statecraft in general. Doesn't mean I'm always right or knowledgeable about everything, but if someone is expected to know it in this area, it's me. My old name Onasander was a pagan Platonist who wrote on military psychology and Just War Theory. Christianity didn't develop in a void.
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Re: What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby Maia » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:18 pm

Turd Ferguson wrote:Actually, the entirety of the British Empire recognizes the Queen as head if state. I mean, maybe the penguins on South Georgia Island don't, but that's another issue.

The British Commonwealth recognizes the Queen as head of the Commonwealth, but not as the head if states of each country.... I know both India and Mozambique are Commonwealth Members who don't accept her as head of state, and a few Caribbean countries are debating going Republic.

The US has full qualification to join the Commonwealth, but there us little point, WTO trumps it, and we don't know how to play cricket, seriously, not a single one of us, so we would be no fun at the Commonwealth Games.

And I'm well aware about morality, I'm the forum's go to guy on systems of ancient Ethics and Morality, as well as statecraft in general. Doesn't mean I'm always right or knowledgeable about everything, but if someone is expected to know it in this area, it's me. My old name Onasander was a pagan Platonist who wrote on military psychology and Just War Theory. Christianity didn't develop in a void.


15 other states besides the UK have the Queen as head of state, namely Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Jamaica, Barbados, Bahamas, Grenada, Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands, Tuvalu, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Belize, Antigua and Barbuda, and Saint Kitts and Nevis. Some of those states are actually quite important. As a tiny island, Britain could never really hope to match the military might of vast, monolithic continental empires like Russia or the USA (at least once they had caught up in industrialisation) but as far as soft power goes, nobody does it better.

My own opinion on morality is based on my experience. Pagans, for example, are very ethical people, and I have never met one who would consider abortion, because all life is sacred. Christians, on the other hand, sometimes think it's ok to to kill people to stop abortion.
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Re: What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby The Golden Turd » Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:29 pm

I know pagans who got their wives to have abortions, your just sheltered. We got alot if groups here, of every stripe.... some intellectuals with radio programs, others crude as fuck.

And there are some graveyards in Carthage and Phonecia you should look into. Christians didn't do that.... Infanticide pops up equally mixed in pagan as well as "monotheistic" cultures, many Islamic countries actively encourage it, like Iran. China dies too, and they have a heavy Taoist and Buddhist core.

Also, some pagans were monotheistic. I know, strange concept.

But yeah, violence is always going to be associated with abortion/infanticide, as long as it exists. Its guaranteed to attract crimes of passion from fathers who just found out, out of the blue their wive just aborted their baby. Imagine walking around, thinking your going to have a child, happy..... come home to the great news that she killed it without informing you. You got a Russian novel in the works with that opening plot. Its no different than having a German concentration camp.... allies liberated the camps, became disgusted at the sight of death, dragged in local Germans who pretended to have nothing to do with it, or know what was going on, made to bury the dead.

How do you think a future liberator to the UK or America will take our abortion clinics? Wouldn't they be right to drag us kicking and screaming to view the baby parts all over?

We more or less showed from our actions I'm WW2 a intention that locals should of resisted. We have WW1 international precedent excusing acts of assassinating commanders of genocide as a legitimate act of compulsion.

When people blow up or attack compulsion clinics, it's very similar. Paganism and Christianity has nothing to do with it, it's the degree of compulsion and their unwillingness yo allow a death camp nearby to continue to exist. We find this argument repulsive, but it also has legal supports to it from history and international law. Just liberalism absolutely must deny this reality at any and all costs.

We are all very wrong and sick in the head for allowing this sort of abuse, squashing human life, to go on. You can't say your moral on one hand, yet denounce them in another, and yet speak of a older universal morality as well. Some people are moved to react, the paranoid schizophrenic especially.... but is the root recognition that abortion clinics kill people is wrong? Nope.... they most certainly do. Police and military likewise respond to threats as well. Its why it's very hard to break the paranoid crowd of this fixation to target abortion clinics, it's irrefutable at root, abortion clinics kill. Default, absolute default. How well can they reason beyond this? Not well. How well was WW2 for any side reasoned? Not well. Yet we essentially arrived at the same conclusion in mass, upon seeing these camps and the sick Nazi mentality up close.

When your able to see, some sights make you dizzy to the knees, like your going to hurl. Its not like a knife on the chalkboard annoyance, it's sickening dispair. Fixates in your mind. Never leaves you, causes intense rage whenever you return to those thoughts.

It will never beveradicated from society.

And no.... it's impossible to stop 3D printers from printing.... you can print a 3d printer from a 3d computer..... motherboard is very primitive and simple. Guns are coming, increasingly over the next two generations. We already have plans on the net for them, a few printed out. Not precision, but it gets the job done.
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Re: What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby Moreno » Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:41 pm

Maia wrote:To start with I should state that I don't believe that when politicians have used this term, they meant the same thing as the conspiratards do by it. But let's look at the worst case scenario, and try and decide what's wrong with it.

One world government
This is inevitable, in the long run, though none of us alive today may live to see it. History has been a gradual process of smaller states merging to form larger ones. When there is only one single state, war, we may hope, will become a thing of the past.
Or the war will then shift as one towards it's own citizens and there are clear signs this is happening everywhere. There are also countertrends, take the reduction in the USSR and other secession movements elsewhere. Where in history has power not been severely abused the more centralized it became? Where has being more degrees of separation from the 'represented' helped? Centralized powers have always wanted to surveile and control their populations, but they have never had the technological potential for both survellance and control that they now have. And let's think for a moment who the players will be in the NWO and how their personlities will shape the world.

Banning guns
This is only really applicable to the USA, since almost everywhere else that claims to be civilised has done so long ago. Banning guns creates a peaceful and less violent society, and don't believe the gun company propaganda that tells you otherwise.
Why do you assume that a One World Government will have this policy?
Socialism
All modern states have adopted some measure of socialism, even the USA in a very rudimentary sense. Countries like Finland and the Netherlands are now leading the way with the next phase, giving everyone a basic income whether they work or not.
Smaller nations have managed to make socialism work. These nations tended to maintain a high per capita income on either direct colonialism or indirect via corporation colonialism. Now that jobs are leaving these nations their economies are in trouble. Not as much as the USAs, but that has a lot to do with the global presence the US has had.

Anti-Christianity
This is a particular bugbear of the conspiracy theorists, so I might as well address it too. Christianity, and all monotheistic religions by their very nature, preach exclusivity and totalitarianism. I don't think the world would be worse off if they ceased to exist.
But it won't cease to exist. Jesus provided perfect ideas for the control of populations, including his separate of church and state lecture. The monotheisms will continue.

Power without counterbalance corrupts absolutely. Nations and wars causes all sorts of problems, it's true. One massively powerful government will solve us to empty shell lives.
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Re: What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby Maia » Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:42 pm

Turd Ferguson wrote:I know pagans who got their wives to have abortions, your just sheltered. We got alot if groups here, of every stripe.... some intellectuals with radio programs, others crude as fuck.

And there are some graveyards in Carthage and Phonecia you should look into. Christians didn't do that.... Infanticide pops up equally mixed in pagan as well as "monotheistic" cultures, many Islamic countries actively encourage it, like Iran. China dies too, and they have a heavy Taoist and Buddhist core.

Also, some pagans were monotheistic. I know, strange concept.

But yeah, violence is always going to be associated with abortion/infanticide, as long as it exists. Its guaranteed to attract crimes of passion from fathers who just found out, out of the blue their wive just aborted their baby. Imagine walking around, thinking your going to have a child, happy..... come home to the great news that she killed it without informing you. You got a Russian novel in the works with that opening plot. Its no different than having a German concentration camp.... allies liberated the camps, became disgusted at the sight of death, dragged in local Germans who pretended to have nothing to do with it, or know what was going on, made to bury the dead.

How do you think a future liberator to the UK or America will take our abortion clinics? Wouldn't they be right to drag us kicking and screaming to view the baby parts all over?

We more or less showed from our actions I'm WW2 a intention that locals should of resisted. We have WW1 international precedent excusing acts of assassinating commanders of genocide as a legitimate act of compulsion.

When people blow up or attack compulsion clinics, it's very similar. Paganism and Christianity has nothing to do with it, it's the degree of compulsion and their unwillingness yo allow a death camp nearby to continue to exist. We find this argument repulsive, but it also has legal supports to it from history and international law. Just liberalism absolutely must deny this reality at any and all costs.

We are all very wrong and sick in the head for allowing this sort of abuse, squashing human life, to go on. You can't say your moral on one hand, yet denounce them in another, and yet speak of a older universal morality as well. Some people are moved to react, the paranoid schizophrenic especially.... but is the root recognition that abortion clinics kill people is wrong? Nope.... they most certainly do. Police and military likewise respond to threats as well. Its why it's very hard to break the paranoid crowd of this fixation to target abortion clinics, it's irrefutable at root, abortion clinics kill. Default, absolute default. How well can they reason beyond this? Not well. How well was WW2 for any side reasoned? Not well. Yet we essentially arrived at the same conclusion in mass, upon seeing these camps and the sick Nazi mentality up close.

When your able to see, some sights make you dizzy to the knees, like your going to hurl. Its not like a knife on the chalkboard annoyance, it's sickening dispair. Fixates in your mind. Never leaves you, causes intense rage whenever you return to those thoughts.

It will never beveradicated from society.

And no.... it's impossible to stop 3D printers from printing.... you can print a 3d printer from a 3d computer..... motherboard is very primitive and simple. Guns are coming, increasingly over the next two generations. We already have plans on the net for them, a few printed out. Not precision, but it gets the job done.


Modern Paganism is not the same as ancient Paganism. Unlike monotheistic religions, with their holy writ, Paganism can freely evolve.

While morally repugnant, I would not compare abortion clinics with Nazi exrermination camps. That sort of thinking gets us nowhere.

The technology to print guns will develop apace with the technology to stop it. One can easily imagine a technology in the future that can detect when certain programmes are running somewhere, and jam them.
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Re: What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby The Golden Turd » Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:01 pm

No, you can ruggedize electronics, prevent external detection, and we got plenty of 3D programs floating around bootleg on CD.

And ancient Paganism often was allowed to freely evolve, just as Christianity usually has. There are significant theological and philosophical approaches, for example, between the Catholic and Greek Orthodox Church in acceptance of Aristotle. Its to the point whenever I visit a Greek monastery I can't mention any Orthodox theologian or Philosopher who wrote on Aristotle, as they see it threatening to their position on Gregory Palamas. I suspect you'd be interested in Gregory, given his influence on visual, Zen like meditation of seeing internal light patterns in the mind. It gets more complicated once you spread farther into the other holy sees, and even within the Catholic church you have radically different, competing schools. Same with Protestants..... we actively induct foreign philosophies like Buddhism and Taoism into Christianity too now, be it Thomas Merton, a Catholic, or Seraphim Rose, Orthodox. The Orthodox are the slowest to change, but they are also the most aggressive in adopting eastern philosophies. These are the mainstream churches of Christianity. Its hardly stagnant. We are the ones who developed the big bang.

And comparing abortion clinics to nazi death camps is spot on. Its not a matter if political acceptance, but finding the correlates that drive people to violence.... you gotta find the equivalent points in yourself. I'm not Muslim, I'm opposed to Jihad, but I try to figure our the mindset they act on, read their ideologies, why they say they are motivated. Its irresponsible not to investigate if your a philosopher, or act like it's incomprehensible.... they are human, so am I, so are you, it's within reach. There really isn't any difference whatsoever between a abortion clinic and a death camp.... similar results, a structure dedicated to killing. Same for the sacrificial alters and burning of babies in the ancient world.

A question seemingly unrelated, but I was pondering..... did they ever teach you the stars in the constellations, or did you learn how to make up astrological charts from scratch, or geometry?

I know Didymus the Blind was a accomplished writer on geometry.... just, your emphasis on Paganism.... usually it's accompanied by a knowledge of geometry and the stars. How aware of you of this? I know you can't just look up and see them, but you know how to draw them, their rough spacing? Can you put together a natal chart?

If not, I don't think it be that hard for a friend to get some laminate paper with a design printed on it, cut it for you so you can get used to the format, run string through it to make a natal chart. You can learn basics of astronomy that way. Your approach to paganism has to always be in opposition to Christianity, but I figure if you learn more, you can rest your faith in it's merits more, rather than opposition. I'm a Christian, but don't have to bomb pagans, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists every time I mention my faith. I've rarely seen you mention your religion without doing the Father Ted "I hear your a racist" dace the British woman does in the background screaming about Greek immigrants:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6zkL91LzCMc

Basically, the Cather does a childish impression of Chinese people, and is seen doing so through the window by a Chinese couple..... he panics, runs outside to explain, but everyone already heard he was a racist.... to his shock and horror. Then the lady in the background goes crazy, kicking and hollering, shopping bags all over the place. I take your rants against Christianity in a similar light.... if you learned more about some areas outside mere texts, such as astronomy, maybe you can balance your emotional scope a bit, not feel so threatened?
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Re: What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby phyllo » Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:12 pm

This is really a question of "how much control do you want over your own life?"

You can get some benefits by ceding control to others. For example, constant police presence and surveillance will probably reduce violence and crime... but is that a good trade-off?

And the followup question is "if you accept that giving up control now is good, how do you know that it will still be good when the system evolves? ". Maybe it will deteriorate into something that you do not want. Is it worth the risk?
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Re: What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby The Golden Turd » Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:49 pm

Which brings up a obvious issue of Federal Synoecism and Regional Autonomy

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synoecism

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That's why I mentioned this Phyllo.

Institution of a commonwealth

Although there were differences between Greek and Roman synoecisms they all had the same general features. Before the union the future population of the commonwealth was distributed to smaller settlements not obligated to each other in any way, or at least not by the contract that was to create the new state. A settlement or bloc of settlements might belong to some other state, from which they were being transferred. Some of the types of settlement incorporated by the Romans were the prefecture (praefectura), a non-autonomous village administered by a prefect; the oppidum, a fortified, autonomous town; the castellum, a small fortified place under or previously under the jurisdiction of the army; the forum, a marketplace; the conciliabulum, a meeting place; the vicus, a small settlement placed on a strictly private basis with no government; the canabae, or settlement of dependents in the vicinity of a base; the pagus, a rural village; the gens, a tribal canton; the saltus, a settlement of coloni (farmers) on a large estate, part of which they were renting or leasing from the conductor, the manager; and the colonia, a settlement of colonists from Rome.[3]

Interplay between "demos" and "polis" Edit

In early Greece, ancient society was split between the "demos" (δῆμοι, κῶμαι; meaning the "country people" or the "country villages") and the "asty" (ἄστυ) or "polis" (πόλις); the seat of the princely (nobility, the gentry, the aristocracy), the sacerdotal and military families. The distinction between the "polis" and the "demos" was of great political importance in the ancient states. There was much antagonism between these two bodies, the country and city; and where commerce and trade became the dominant cultural and ideological force, it collected many men together promoting larger towns and democracy. In the city states of Classical Greece, synoecism occurred when the "demos" combined with, usually by force, and submerged the "politiea" to form one political union.[4]

In democratic states Edit
For Athens, the villages of Attica combined with the asty of Athens proper. The "polis" and the "demos" became identical in Athens and the later word was used by preference to signify the whole community. It was the wealthy and populous cities of the Greeks in the Ionian territory that popular government was first established.[5] This is how the word "democracy" was formed and its form of government. This synoecism was one of the primary causes of the kyklos in ancient Hellas.

This principle is witnessed in the history of Mantineia. In the fifth century, after its synoecism, it became a democracy; in the fourth century, it was again split apart (dioikismos), and an oligarchy was formed. Later on, more political upheaval caused another synoecism, thus creating another democracy.[4] This occurred in the other Arcadian towns of Tegea and Heraia.

In oligarchical states Edit
States not under democratic government used the word "polis" in their public documents to signify the sovereign power. The Doric states of Crete and Sparta kept the "polis" separate from the "demos". As late as the second century of the common era, Cretan towns continued to use the word "polis" to denote themselves. The Spartan community, however, deviating from this usage of the word, calls itself "damos" (δᾶμoς) in ancient laws, because it never thought of opposing itself as a body to the Perioeci.[5]

Müller states: "In oligarchical states, as in Elis, the people in later times remained almost constantly in the country; and it frequently happened that grandfathers and grandchildren had never seen the town: there were also country courts of justice, and other regulations intended to make up for the advantages of a city life. Where the courts of justice were at a distance, and there was no inducement to mechanical industry and internal commerce (see the term banausos), the ancient habits of life continued much longer in existence.
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Re: What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby Maia » Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:47 pm

Turd Ferguson wrote:No, you can ruggedize electronics, prevent external detection, and we got plenty of 3D programs floating around bootleg on CD.

And ancient Paganism often was allowed to freely evolve, just as Christianity usually has. There are significant theological and philosophical approaches, for example, between the Catholic and Greek Orthodox Church in acceptance of Aristotle. Its to the point whenever I visit a Greek monastery I can't mention any Orthodox theologian or Philosopher who wrote on Aristotle, as they see it threatening to their position on Gregory Palamas. I suspect you'd be interested in Gregory, given his influence on visual, Zen like meditation of seeing internal light patterns in the mind. It gets more complicated once you spread farther into the other holy sees, and even within the Catholic church you have radically different, competing schools. Same with Protestants..... we actively induct foreign philosophies like Buddhism and Taoism into Christianity too now, be it Thomas Merton, a Catholic, or Seraphim Rose, Orthodox. The Orthodox are the slowest to change, but they are also the most aggressive in adopting eastern philosophies. These are the mainstream churches of Christianity. Its hardly stagnant. We are the ones who developed the big bang.

And comparing abortion clinics to nazi death camps is spot on. Its not a matter if political acceptance, but finding the correlates that drive people to violence.... you gotta find the equivalent points in yourself. I'm not Muslim, I'm opposed to Jihad, but I try to figure our the mindset they act on, read their ideologies, why they say they are motivated. Its irresponsible not to investigate if your a philosopher, or act like it's incomprehensible.... they are human, so am I, so are you, it's within reach. There really isn't any difference whatsoever between a abortion clinic and a death camp.... similar results, a structure dedicated to killing. Same for the sacrificial alters and burning of babies in the ancient world.

A question seemingly unrelated, but I was pondering..... did they ever teach you the stars in the constellations, or did you learn how to make up astrological charts from scratch, or geometry?

I know Didymus the Blind was a accomplished writer on geometry.... just, your emphasis on Paganism.... usually it's accompanied by a knowledge of geometry and the stars. How aware of you of this? I know you can't just look up and see them, but you know how to draw them, their rough spacing? Can you put together a natal chart?

If not, I don't think it be that hard for a friend to get some laminate paper with a design printed on it, cut it for you so you can get used to the format, run string through it to make a natal chart. You can learn basics of astronomy that way. Your approach to paganism has to always be in opposition to Christianity, but I figure if you learn more, you can rest your faith in it's merits more, rather than opposition. I'm a Christian, but don't have to bomb pagans, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists every time I mention my faith. I've rarely seen you mention your religion without doing the Father Ted "I hear your a racist" dace the British woman does in the background screaming about Greek immigrants:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6zkL91LzCMc

Basically, the Cather does a childish impression of Chinese people, and is seen doing so through the window by a Chinese couple..... he panics, runs outside to explain, but everyone already heard he was a racist.... to his shock and horror. Then the lady in the background goes crazy, kicking and hollering, shopping bags all over the place. I take your rants against Christianity in a similar light.... if you learned more about some areas outside mere texts, such as astronomy, maybe you can balance your emotional scope a bit, not feel so threatened?


We're talking about future technology here, with the ability to detect whenever a certain type of programme is being run in a given vicinity. I'm not sure this is so beyond the realms of possibility.

I wasn't saying that Christianity doesn't evolve, it clearly does. But it does so within the straightjacket of the Bible, and like all monotheisms tends to regard other branches of itself as heresy and, given the chance, will try to violently stamp them out. Paganism, however, is free to evolve in any direction without restraint, and to become anything at all, without having any problem with recognising other branches of Paganism as equally valid. This is the fundamental difference in mindset. Monotheism, with its belief in one god, has to also believe it is the one true way.

I agree that it's a good idea to understand why people think that way, but this does not imply any sort of agreement. Abortion clinics are different to Nazi death camps in a number of ways. Firstly, and primarily, is the motive behind it. Secondly, the babies are not deliberately worked to death as slaves before being killed. And thirdly, abortion clinics are not staffed with sadistic guards who like torturing people.

I have never personally put together a natal chart but the maths is surely not beyond me. Natal charts do not require a visual diagram and can be read and interpreted just as easily as a list of numbers. Say that your Pluto was in 29 degrees Virgo, for example. I don't need a diagram to show me this, as I've just said it. If you're asking, however, if I can visualise or imagine what the sky looks like, the answer is no. I can't visualise or imagine what anything looks like. I do, however, have a very good awareness of spacial geometry, but I'm not really sure why this should be relevant to Paganism.
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Re: What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:10 pm

Right, we should trust shitty people who overthrow democratically elected governments and the same people who got feminists to promote smoking cigarettes for young women. We should trust bad people with our lives and guns, the same corrupt people who fund oil interests overseas and approve of toxins in our foods...right...

We should become like britain, who produce tv shows even more inane and retarded than the us of a...shows like this...


An ai promoting natural beauty, what a farce. The same people who obsess over "natural" beauty probably eat junk food everyday.

Why not add china and retarded african nations in to the mix as well, so they can degrade our quality of life and remove our rights even further.
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Re: What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby phyllo » Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:20 pm

We're talking about future technology here, with the ability to detect whenever a certain type of programme is being run in a given vicinity. I'm not sure this is so beyond the realms of possibility.
It's possible. But it's certainly not desirable unless you accept that you should only be allowed to do what "the government" approves.
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Re: What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby Moreno » Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:37 am

I can't see where a pagan would not be extremely skeptical about a one world government. Paganism has always been attacked by hierachial religions and cultures. That is,ones that are more hierarchical than pagan societies and groups. Paganism in general is more resistant to hierarchy than monotheisms. These religions are not about control and restriction in the way monotheisms tend to be and thus are problematic for control orientied, hierarchical cultures, whether corporate - which a one world government would surely be - or governmental. Once a giant bureaucratic monstrosity is in place they have absolutely no reason to pretend they give a shit about what you consider valuable. Just as they are losing interest now, after years of seeming cultivating individual freedom, they do not need Westerners anymore to be happy or thinking they are free. The have globalized their businesses and the West is slowly being ignored and there are less freedoms, more surveillance and more central control.

How could a pagan not be wary of this? It is precisely the opposite of a pagan culture where power is generally always temporary and earned. Some huge, cold machinelike corporation running the world. NO, thank you.
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I can imagine a pagan not being sure this is a bad idea. But a pagan who is not extremely wary, that is a hobbyist, who just wants her tarot cards and social media contacts around disconnected rituals. A kind of suburban playing around,while working some 9to5 office cubicle soul destroying job or living on disability and who does not really have to out there in the real world. When that one world government decides that blind people are less effective cogs in the machine and her 'representatives' are across an ocean and could give a shit about her opinions since they answer the the boards of directors of an oligarchy, she may find herself out on the street, selling her body, just as third world women, who never thought they would have to chose that option found themselves doing in when their US or USSR coached oligarchies took over the economy.
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Re: What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby Maia » Fri Jan 01, 2016 11:11 am

Moreno wrote:I can't see where a pagan would not be extremely skeptical about a one world government. Paganism has always been attacked by hierachial religions and cultures. That is,ones that are more hierarchical than pagan societies and groups. Paganism in general is more resistant to hierarchy than monotheisms. These religions are not about control and restriction in the way monotheisms tend to be and thus are problematic for control orientied, hierarchical cultures, whether corporate - which a one world government would surely be - or governmental. Once a giant bureaucratic monstrosity is in place they have absolutely no reason to pretend they give a shit about what you consider valuable. Just as they are losing interest now, after years of seeming cultivating individual freedom, they do not need Westerners anymore to be happy or thinking they are free. The have globalized their businesses and the West is slowly being ignored and there are less freedoms, more surveillance and more central control.

How could a pagan not be wary of this? It is precisely the opposite of a pagan culture where power is generally always temporary and earned. Some huge, cold machinelike corporation running the world. NO, thank you.
w
I can imagine a pagan not being sure this is a bad idea. But a pagan who is not extremely wary, that is a hobbyist, who just wants her tarot cards and social media contacts around disconnected rituals. A kind of suburban playing around,while working some 9to5 office cubicle soul destroying job or living on disability and who does not really have to out there in the real world. When that one world government decides that blind people are less effective cogs in the machine and her 'representatives' are across an ocean and could give a shit about her opinions since they answer the the boards of directors of an oligarchy, she may find herself out on the street, selling her body, just as third world women, who never thought they would have to chose that option found themselves doing in when their US or USSR coached oligarchies took over the economy.


Why does a one world government have to be dictatorial? Why can't it be federal, like the EU, which makes it a policy to devolve powers to the smallest local unit that can efficiently carry them out? Surely this is better than the current situation, in which states can go to war against each other? Why is it that half the world is on the breadline and the other lives quite well? It's because of capitalism, and its channelling of resources into things like war and other useless pursuits, and the inherent inefficiency and waste in the system it creates.
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Re: What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby AutSider » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:47 pm

One world government
This is inevitable, in the long run, though none of us alive today may live to see it. History has been a gradual process of smaller states merging to form larger ones. When there is only one single state, war, we may hope, will become a thing of the past


History isn't linear, it's cyclical.

Smaller groups converge into larger ones based on share interests and later diverge into smaller ones due to internal conflicts.

There are indeed attempts to connect the world not only technologically, but memetically also - imposing the same memes (ideas) upon all politically governable entities (humans) by appealing to a common denominator they all share - humanity, thus humanism, but everybody who isn't an imbecile and has a more profound sense of self that goes beyond such base categories as species would reject such a shallow identity imposed upon them.

Banning guns
This is only really applicable to the USA, since almost everywhere else that claims to be civilised has done so long ago. Banning guns creates a peaceful and less violent society, and don't believe the gun company propaganda that tells you otherwise.


Sure. As soon as police, military, and all government law enforcement agencies disarm themselves.
Or are you saying that guns should be banned for one group of people and not for the other group, and not only that, but the other group can also possess weapons as destructive as nuclear bombs which can level entire cities?
Do I really have to point out what's wrong with that?

Socialism
All modern states have adopted some measure of socialism, even the USA in a very rudimentary sense. Countries like Finland and the Netherlands are now leading the way with the next phase, giving everyone a basic income whether they work or not.


Indeed. Socialism is a sign that the country's previous political/economic system was too successful so the country accumulated resources that it can spare... it is an indication of the country's downfall.

EDIT: Maia is not a pagan, or did paganism become a new trendy, popular thing that wanna be rebels adopt in order to sound edgy, akin to emo and goth culture?
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Re: What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby phyllo » Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:31 pm

It's because of capitalism, and its channelling of resources into things like war and other useless pursuits, and the inherent inefficiency and waste in the system it creates.
The twin scapegoats for everything ... capitalism and Christianity.

Don't other economic and political systems waste resources, have useless pursuits and engage in war?
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Re: What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:23 am

Maia wrote:Why does a one world government have to be dictatorial? Why can't it be federal, like the EU, which makes it a policy to devolve powers to the smallest local unit that can efficiently carry them out? Surely this is better than the current situation, in which states can go to war against each other? Why is it that half the world is on the breadline and the other lives quite well? It's because of capitalism, and its channelling of resources into things like war and other useless pursuits, and the inherent inefficiency and waste in the system it creates.


She doesn't like capitalism, but she wants a one world government, which will probably be run by America, which already owns most of the world. She must not know that America is capitalistic. Brilliant.
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Re: What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby zinnat » Sat Jan 02, 2016 4:19 am

Interesting discussion from my POV. I have been thinking along the same lines since long.

I more or less agree with Maia that sooner or later humans would have no option but to form some sort of world government.

Having said that, I disagree with her presumption of Christianity/ monotheism having no role in that future order. I think that just like administration, political and economical issues, the issue of religion/faith will also be sorted out one day by some gives and takes within all major religions.

All religions would also have no options but to converge at same point one day. And also, the new world order is not possible without happening that in the first place either. That is a necessary precondition/event, which will pave the way of unification of the world in all other aspects.

And also, that may happen much earlier than we are assuming.

With love,
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Re: What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Sat Jan 02, 2016 4:25 am

Why cant we just make a dna machine so people will stop being retards and clinging to their polidicks, religion, stupid tv programmes and weekly world news. We wont even need a world government, there will be no need for war if people stop being stupid baboons.
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Re: What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Sat Jan 02, 2016 4:26 am

Instead of the dna machine we get walking vaginas who say the new world order is good. Shoot me now
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Re: What's so bad about the New World Order?

Postby Meno_ » Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:01 am

Given the time spent , in this forum, and elsewhere, on rapidly escalating technology, it's considerable, that the new politically viable programs are being analyzed by strategic computerized game theory, as much as any game theory which was used during the days of the Cold War and beyond. These theories opt for the best possible scenario, and it's equally probable that , in this instance technology would trump popular opinion.

This was foreshadowed even as early as, 50+ years ago, in a little known French film 'Alphaville' where the scientific community were bound to programs regarding security issues. I disagree, whether the ethical notion regarding the coming world order, is open in the way it is thought to be. It may already have passed that stage.
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