The coming US-China War

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The coming US-China War

Postby above us only sky » Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:47 pm

Great Australian film maker John Pilger http://johnpilger.com/recently made a new documentary shown in British ITV station. In this film, he explores the possibility of a coming US- China war. According to him, as China becoming a great power, it will confront with US more often, meanwhile, the United States needs a new enemy in order to keep its military apparatus alive; also due to ideological differences a coming war between US and China is becoming more and more possible. Here is the film


In your view, will there a US-China War in the future? If so, what effects will it have on us? Can we prevent it?
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Re: The coming US-China War

Postby mannikin » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:02 pm

In your view, will there a US-China War in the future?


Yes and many others

If so, what effects will it have on us?


Death

Can we prevent it?


Nope

Signs of the end of time.
"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
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Re: The coming US-China War

Postby above us only sky » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:21 pm

mannikin wrote:
In your view, will there a US-China War in the future?


Yes and many others

If so, what effects will it have on us?


Death

Can we prevent it?


Nope

Signs of the end of time.

Here is a heated debate
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Re: The coming US-China War

Postby Arminius » Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:55 pm

China has by far not as much fat people as the US.

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Are you ready for the US-China-War?
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Re: The coming US-China War

Postby above us only sky » Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:27 am

Arminius wrote:China has by far not as much fat people as the US.

Are you ready for the US-China-War?


#-o , haha. Maybe military exercises will help people lose weight.
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Re: The coming US-China War

Postby above us only sky » Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:10 am

If a US-China war is comming, then what can a person do to avoid it? Go to hide in a forest?
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Re: The coming US-China War

Postby James S Saint » Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:59 pm

above us only sky wrote:Here is a heated debate

It was refreshing to listen to intelligent people debating a topic compared to the US Presidential candidates. And that particular debate is a typical representation of GOP vs DNC mindsets as well as typical public voting results.

It wasn't, and they made it clear many times, about a US-China war, but rather merely about whether the US and China would remain long term enemies. In the debate, one side claimed that it is inevitable that the US and China remain enemies, although not necessarily to the point of war (GOP type). The other side claimed that such a conclusion should not be reached because it is something that we should not want to be true (DNC type).

It was a debate between realists and wishers. The audience voted for the wishers. And that reflects US politics over the past 20 years - "vote for what you want the truth to be, not what you think it actually is" - Conservative vs Liberal mindsets.

So according to the liberal front, the US and China (West vs East) are going to be good, loving neighbors, never taking advantage nor even preparing to take advantage even when the opportunity eventually arises, because the world is made of just such loving people.
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Re: The coming US-China War

Postby Mimisbrunnr » Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:07 pm

Would love to see that vote broken down along gender lines. (Full disclosure: haven't watched the debate yet, maybe this was in the video?)
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Re: The coming US-China War

Postby brevel_monkey » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:50 am

China and America are ideologically opposed. China's insatiable thirst for resources will bring it into conflict with the country which has overall control of world markets.

What 'conflict' means in this context, though, that is the real question. Would either fire a nuke? Will they even fire a bullet? Proxy wars in Africa and the middle east? Economic war such as an attempt by China to crash US markets, or an attempt by the US to blockade China's exports? Cyber war? Or a Russian, Post-truth style conflict that no one is even really sure is happening, despite the existence of real consequences? Cold War 2? World war 3? Maybe it will just be an old fashioned, boots on the ground kind of war. No one really knows at this point what will happen.

I don't think either Trump or Xi Jinping are actually warmongerors though, just tough negotiators. I think this conflict is a few years away yet hopefully.
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Re: The coming US-China War

Postby The Golden Turd » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:44 am

Think the CPC would fracture into opposing parties in the aftermath of a war. It is likely to push off here soon anyway.

I've already stated my views, a war with China would be meaningless strategically for the US, and China is in a very bad situation, it can't gain much in terms of anything other than Taiwan, and they aren't exactly handling Hong Kong all that well. Everyone sees it as China dominating Hong Kong, people don't get how much pull it has culturally as a alternative. Conquering Taiwan would more or less be a death sentence for the party. They are psnicing seeing Christian out number them, this wouldn't be the case if they weren't hyper aware of just how miserably fragile they are. When a state constantly projects a strong man persona, it's likely a weak regime.

Even if a ship or two, even if it be a carrier, and a million men in Dalian match shouting slogans, and everyone says "I told you so" my position doesn't change. China is in a utterly weak position for a war. It is deeply unwise. The mere projection of the numens of power isn't enough to convince me it's more than a rather shallow phantom projection to cover up a weakness and distract the problems people face with a external enemy.

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Re: The coming US-China War

Postby above us only sky » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:41 am

Turd Ferguson wrote:Think the CPC would fracture into opposing parties in the aftermath of a war. It is likely to push off here soon anyway.


Is that only your own wishful thinking? Check this video


Turd Ferguson wrote:Even if a ship or two, even if it be a carrier, and a million men in Dalian match shouting slogans, and everyone says "I told you so" my position doesn't change. China is in a utterly weak position for a war.


When asked about who will win the US-China war, the film director John Pilger answered that US "will not necessarily" win. Here is the video
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Re: The coming US-China War

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:48 pm

War with China? You don't say. Image
I say, drive those fascists to the dirt.

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America will be victorious.
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Re: The coming US-China War

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:50 pm

above us only sky wrote:If a US-China war is comming, then what can a person do to avoid it? Go to hide in a forest?


Avoid it? Why would you want to?
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Re: The coming US-China War

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:24 am

"There are three primary powers in the world — the US, Russia, and China. All other nations are secondary allies, or tertiary powers. In a three-power system, the object of foreign policy for a primary power is to align with one of others to the detriment of the third.

A great power that does not pursue this policy becomes the victim of an alliance between the remaining two. Such an alliance need not be permanent; it can shift, as was the case with Nixon’s opening to China, which put Russia on the defensive and led eventually to the downfall of the Soviet Union.

This dynamic is not difficult to grasp. Adults playing the board game Risk know that, while the game begins with six players, it quickly evolves to three survivors. At that point, it is imperative for two of the players to align and destroy the third by systematically attacking it, and refraining from attacking each other. The victim is quickly wiped from the board.

Of course, geopolitics is more complex than Risk. Players are rarely removed from the board; they are just temporarily advantaged or disadvantaged in pursuing their national goals. But the three-power dynamics of two-against-one are fundamentally the same.

Bismarck knew this. Kissinger knows it today. Obama does not.

Obama subscribed to a post-national globalist ideology, which finds no correlative in the real world outside of faculty lounges and Georgetown salons. In Obama’s worldview, nation states are a problem, not a solution.

Global goals on issues like climate change, trade, the OECD’s world tax program, and the IMF’s world money program require global institutions. Nation states are temporary impediments until global governance can be built through non-democratic transnational institutions.

Meanwhile, Russia and China never lost sight of their national interests. While their leaders dutifully attend the same multilateral venues as Obama, such as the G20, IMF, and regional summits, they persistently put Russia and China first. For Russia and China, the world is a dangerous place in which national interest is advanced ruthlessly; not Obama’s Kumbaya-laced globalist fantasy of a one world order.

This hard-edged realism by Russia and China, combined with a lack of realism by Obama, has led to the worst possible outcome for the US. Russia and China have become deeply intertwined and are building a durable alternative to the post-war dollar-based system dominated by the US.

These Russia-China initiatives include deepening cooperation through the BRICS, the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, the Asia Infrastructure and Investment Bank, the New Silk Road, and joint efforts in weapons systems and space.

Most threatening is that, in the past 10 years, Russia increased its gold reserves 203%, and China increased its gold reserves an estimated 570%. Such gold accumulations have no purpose other than to lay the foundation for a non-dollar-based international monetary system. No great power has prevailed long without a great currency. When confidence in the dollar fails, US power will fail with it.

Obama blundered because he allowed Russia and China to pursue the two-against-one dynamic leaving the US as the odd man out. Fortunately, it is not too late to reverse this dynamic. Signs from the new Trump administration are encouraging. Trump’s early actions and appointments suggest he understands the precarious position of the US, and is already moving to change the status quo.

Russia is a more natural ally of the US than China. Russia is a parliamentary system, albeit with autocratic overtones; China is a Communist dictatorship. Russia has empowered the Orthodox Church in recent decades, while China is officially atheistic. Russia is encouraging population growth, while China’s one-child policy and sex-selective abortions resulted in the deaths of over 20 million girls.

These cultural aspects — elections, Christianity, and family formation — provide Russia with a natural affinity to Western nations. Russia is also superior to China militarily despite recent Chinese advances. That makes Russia the more desirable ally in any two-against-one scenario.

The most powerful argument for embracing Russia to checkmate China is energy. The US and Russia are the two largest energy producers in the world. US energy production is set to expand with the support of the Trump administration.

Russian production will expand also based in part on initiatives led by Rex Tillerson of Exxon, soon to be Secretary of State. China has few oil and natural gas reserves and relies heavily on dirty forms of coal and some hydropower. The remainder of China’s energy needs is met through imports.

An energy alliance between the US and Russia, supported by Saudi Arabia, could leave the Chinese economy and, by extension, the standing of the Communist Party of China, in jeopardy. That threat is enough to insure Chinese compliance with US aims.

An emerging US-Russian entente could also lead to the alleviation of Western economic sanctions on Russia. This would open the door to an alliance between Germany and Russia. Those two economies have near perfect complementarity, since Germany is technology rich and natural resource poor, while Russia is the opposite.

Isolation of Russia is a fool’s errand. Russia is the 12th largest economy in the world, has the largest landmass of any country in the world, is a nuclear power, has abundant natural resources, and is a fertile destination for direct foreign investment. The Russian culture is highly resistant to outside pressure, but open to outside cooperation.

Just as 50 years of US sanctions failed to change Cuban behaviour, US sanctions will not change Russian behaviour, except for the worse. Engagement, not confrontation, is the better course. The new Trump administration gets this.

US voices such as John McCain, Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham are quick to say, ‘Russia is not our friend.’ Why not? Could it be because President Obama publicly humiliated Vladimir Putin by saying he was, ‘like a bored kid in the back of the classroom’?

Could it be because Obama proclaimed that Russia under Putin is ‘on the wrong side of history.’ In fact, Putin’s sense of history goes back to Peter the Great. Obama’s does not seem to go back further than 1991.

Most of the tension in US — Russia relations today stems from Russia’s invasions of Crimea and eastern Ukraine in 2014. But Russia’s Crimean invasion should have come as no surprise. US and British intelligence services and foreign NGOs destabilised the pro-Russian elected government in Kiev in early 2014, causing Ukrainian President Yanukovych to flee into exile in Russia.

Ukraine was always a bridge too far for NATO and EU membership. Better to leave Ukraine as a quasi-neutral buffer between east and west than put its status in play. Ukraine has always been culturally divided. Now it is politically divided as well.

Russia’s hand in Ukraine was forced by the short-sighted Western interventions of Obama and David Cameron. Obama will soon leave the scene; Cameron already has. Putin is the last man standing, unsurprising for a man whose pursuits include martial arts and chess.

Fortunately, it’s not too late to re-establish a balance of power that favours the US. China is a rising regional hegemon that should be constrained. Russia is a natural ally that should be empowered. The US has blundered in its foreign policy for the past eight years.

A new Trump administration has an opportunity to reverse those blunders by building bridges to Russia, and it seems to be moving in that direction".

Regards,

Jim Rickards,
For The Daily Reckoning
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Re: The coming US-China War

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:37 am

20140322_LDP001_0.jpg
20140322_LDP001_0.jpg (74.77 KiB) Viewed 584 times



HA! I love this pic
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Re: The coming US-China War

Postby above us only sky » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:20 am

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:
above us only sky wrote:If a US-China war is comming, then what can a person do to avoid it? Go to hide in a forest?


Avoid it? Why would you want to?
.......................................Image


I can not defeat you in battlefield so I hide :D
We should avoid it because it is bad for us. Lots of people will die in war, also war is not good for all living things.
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Re: The coming US-China War

Postby The Golden Turd » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:46 am

That paper is some ill informed crap, he might as well of mentioned the strategic advantage North Korea's Unicorn Lancers have, and their ability to project force globally on rainbow bridges, whenever it rains.

Where do you find this stuff Shield Maiden?
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Re: The coming US-China War

Postby above us only sky » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:50 am

Turd Ferguson wrote:That paper is some ill informed crap, he might as well of mentioned the strategic advantage North Korea's Unicorn Lancers have, and their ability to project force globally on rainbow bridges, whenever it rains.


You mean the US should ally with North Korea? Is it realistic conclusion or only your own wishful thinking?
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Re: The coming US-China War

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:41 am

TF wrote:
That paper is some ill informed crap,


Be more specific with your criticism, which point is ill informed crap?
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Re: The coming US-China War

Postby The Golden Turd » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:25 am

The entire thing. It's interpretation of Russia as a parliamentary republic then China is just a Communist state.... He as absolutely no insight whatsoever how either works. He doesn't know what motivates them, their strategic Sims and needs. And assuming it's structured like a game of risk, only three powers, presume all three are trying for hegemony. Only China claims that, and is half assed in trying to check that because they don't believe it themselves.

Kropotkin writes better stuff than that.
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Re: The coming US-China War

Postby above us only sky » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:58 am

Turd Ferguson wrote: presume all three are trying for hegemony. Only China claims that


Could you give even one piece of evidence for your assertion? All you do is talking endlessly.
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Re: The coming US-China War

Postby above us only sky » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:08 am

A Shieldmaiden wrote: While their leaders dutifully attend the same multilateral venues as Obama, such as the G20, IMF, and regional summits, they persistently put Russia and China first. For Russia and China, the world is a dangerous place in which national interest is advanced ruthlessly; not Obama’s Kumbaya-laced globalist fantasy of a one world order.


Yes, of course America, China and Russia all take their national interests seriously, but it does not mean "national interest is advanced ruthlessly". for example, America and China reached a landmark treaty on climate change this year against each of their own interests.

Also, will China, America and Russia ruthlessly push their national interests? I think no, because in this game of the world, there are other players, and those players all have their own interests: for example, it is against the interests of Australia if China and America went to war.

Here is a real expert, Kevin Rudd, who was twice Prime Minister of Australia, talks about this
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Re: The coming US-China War

Postby The Golden Turd » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:11 am

https://www.google.com/search?ei=jf1tWK ... t-ZbQTjZZs

People in the west don't quite grasp what China means by hegemony, so get caught up in ideological speaking sessions trading jabs. Hegemony is like Shogon, control without sovereignty, world unified.

That's not compatible with a tripartite superpower structure with several minor states, or a largely independent UN, etc.

That link is my one supporting piece of evidence, they've been saying it like a fucking mantra since the late 90s, I know a math professor in Guangzhou back then who used to have very nationalistic students write that on the chalkboard, he didn't teach them, they just felt inspired from the political climate to grandstand, just as people here do on silly concepts.

I'm gonna go to Nairaland and accuse Nigerians of being hegemonic over Africa, then tell that to the South Africans, then the Moroccans and Egyptians, and just laugh my ass off.
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Re: The coming US-China War

Postby The Golden Turd » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:11 am

That climate treaty is effectively dead once trump enters office.
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Re: The coming US-China War

Postby Mictlantecuhtli » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:15 am

So many ways to create the next world war, so very little time.....
Civilization is a ship of fools headed to a one way destination of catastrophe and annihilation, its many captains populated by asshole-idiots that all agree it is unsinkable.

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