the second american civil war began today....

[Peter Kropotkin]

the civil war began today... 45 just gave cover and has embolden
white national terrorist... the violence will escalate every day
and we will have not just one Charlottesville but hundreds
every year... hundreds will die and violence will become the norm
of our lives..... welcome to the new America where violence has
been given a new lease on life and white nationalist terrorist
have been embolden to attack because the white nationalist
in chief has given them permission to hold violent and
anti-everyone viewpoint... we are at the beginning of the jewish holocaust
and now its victims shall not just be jews but women and homosexuals
and anyone not white, Anglo-Saxon, protestant.....

the civil war has begun.... on what side are you?

Kropotkin

[Xunzian]

Let's not get grandiose.

This is just another battle in a war that's been going on for a long time.

I have enough Leninist sympathies that I'm accepting of accelerationist ideas. I'm also a bit old and out of shape to go out again and start bashing the fash.

The Onion does it best: http://www.clickhole.com/blogpost/my-re ... viole-6489

Let's let this zit pop. But let's not pretend it's going to be some civil war.

[Otto_West]

Bring it on cupcake. Trump's family is Jewish moron.

[Otto_West]

Let's not get grandiose.

This is just another battle in a war that's been going on for a long time.

I have enough Leninist sympathies that I'm accepting of accelerationist ideas. I'm also a bit old and out of shape to go out again and start bashing the fash.

The Onion does it best: http://www.clickhole.com/blogpost/my-re ... viole-6489

Let's let this zit pop. But let's not pretend it's going to be some civil war.

The Lenin statue in Seattle is going to come down, just watch.

[Meno_]

the civil war began today... 45 just gave cover and has embolden
white national terrorist... the violence will escalate every day
and we will have not just one Charlottesville but hundreds

every year... hundreds will die and violence will become the norm
of our lives..... welcome to the new America where violence has
been given a new lease on life and white nationalist terrorist
have been embolden to attack because the white nationalist
in chief has given them permission to hold violent and
everyone viewpoint... we are at the beginning of the
jewish holocaust
and now its victims shall not just be jews but women and homosexuals

and anyone not white, Anglo-Saxon, protestant.....

the civil war has begun.... on what side are you?


Kropotkin

The civil war/unrest has never ended, just like the Korean War , and the world wars, ideologies put on hold/existentially reduced and bracketed, in people's subconscious-de-facto; never equated with diplomatic-de-jur solutions.

Strife and war mentality as a subconscious reaction is always ready for resurrection on a cue from a trigger.
War and peace are always in a deathly embrace, at times conflated with false emotionalism, especially after a so-called resolution or peace treaty.

But it lasts only until an equilibrium can be maintained.

The World Wars are prime minister examples of decades of peaceful coexistence, maintained by some who have vestiges of remembrance.

[WendyDarling]

violent ANTIFA leftists

[Mr Reasonable]

Wendy, doing something horrible, then getting beat up for it, then pointing at the guy who beat you up and saying he's horrible is...well....stupid.

Even in the 1st grade, when 2 kids fight, the teacher always wants to know who hit who first. That's important.

So why did 1000s of people think they could converge on a liberal city, waving Nazi flags, screaming things designed to offended the people there, and not expect any reaction?

Because they are stupid.

[iambiguous]

Wendy, doing something horrible, then getting beat up for it, then pointing at the guy who beat you up and saying he's horrible is...well....stupid.

Even in the 1st grade, when 2 kids fight, the teacher always wants to know who hit who first. That's important.

So why did 1000s of people think they could converge on a liberal city, waving Nazi flags, screaming things designed to offended the people there, and not expect any reaction?

Because they are stupid.

Wendy,

He does make a good point.

Indeed, here and now, I share it. It's just that I recognize that my own moral and political narrative regarding Charlottesville is basically an "existential contraption" rooted in my rather liberal/radical political trajectory.

In fact, when events of this sort occured back in my youth, I was basically a fascist myself. And definitely a racist.

But that's how these things work -- historically, culturally, existentially. In a world of contingency, chance and change.

Thus, my own quandary revolves not around who "hit first" in any particular fight, but whether it can be demonstrated that all rational and virtuous men and women are able to establish and then to sustain a conviction that the punch was deserved.

I want to believe that the liberals are right here. That Donald Duke is wrong. And subjunctively that's where my gut takes me.

But, philosophically, I'm still entangled in my dilemma.

In other words, unlike you and Mr. Reasonable, I cannot be certain that the "other side" really is "stupid". For, among other things, not seeing these things exactly as I do.

But, sure, enough of that stuff. Carry on...

[WendyDarling]

Should history be erased and/or rewritten?

[WendyDarling]

Wendy, doing something horrible, then getting beat up for it, then pointing at the guy who beat you up and saying he's horrible is...well....stupid.

Even in the 1st grade, when 2 kids fight, the teacher always wants to know who hit who first. That's important.

So why did 1000s of people think they could converge on a liberal city, waving Nazi flags, screaming things designed to offended the people there, and not expect any reaction?

Because they are stupid.

What did the person filming the protester do that was horrible? Worthy of being pepper sprayed in the face?

[WendyDarling]

Offended people have the right to be violent? Is that your logic Mr.?

[Peter Kropotkin]

Wendy, doing something horrible, then getting beat up for it, then pointing at the guy who beat you up and saying he's horrible is...well....stupid.

Even in the 1st grade, when 2 kids fight, the teacher always wants to know who hit who first. That's important.

So why did 1000s of people think they could converge on a liberal city, waving Nazi flags, screaming things designed to offended the people there, and not expect any reaction?

Because they are stupid.

Wendy,

He does make a good point.

Indeed, here and now, I share it. It's just that I recognize that my own moral and political narrative regarding Charlottesville is basically an "existential contraption" rooted in my rather liberal/radical political trajectory.

In fact, when events of this sort occured back in my youth, I was basically a fascist myself. And definitely a racist.

But that's how these things work -- historically, culturally, existentially. In a world of contingency, chance and change.

Thus, my own quandary revolves not around who "hit first" in any particular fight, but whether it can be demonstrated that all rational and virtuous men and women are able to establish and then to sustain a conviction that the punch was deserved.

I want to believe that the liberals are right here. That Donald Duke is wrong. And subjunctively that's where my gut takes me.

But, philosophically, I'm still entangled in my dilemma.

In other words, unlike you and Mr. Reasonable, I cannot be certain that the "other side" really is "stupid". For, among other things, not seeing these things exactly as I do.

But, sure, enough of that stuff. Carry on...

K: at some point, we must understand that a message of hate and violence and racism
cannot serve anybody any good...I don't believe that the "other side is stupid"
but I do believe it is misguided and quite simply, wrong...... because it is a message
of hate and violence and racism... and there aren't any grounds that one can defend
a message of hate and violence and racism...... ok, let us try the old Kantian idea,
that an idea is to be tried out throughout the world... let us suppose that we allow
this message of hate and violence and racism become the law of the land.......
what would be the outcome? hate and violence and racism and the world cannot long
last ongoing strife of such power...... we cannot allow the message of hate and violence
and racism to exist because it is not a message that can be tolerated within society
because it causes strife and violence and anger, on both sided, it does not
allow a stable and functional society, this message of hate and violence and racism...
and that must be the criteria we use, how does this message create a stable and
functional society and we know, know that a message of hate and violence and racism
doesn't create a stable and functional society.... that is why we cannot allow it.....
the message of hate and violence and racism damages society, damages our very
way of life, philosophically, unlike you, I can reject a message of hate and violence
and racism because it does damage our society, our government, our democracy.....
we as a society can use measures to protect our society, our government and
banning messages of hate and violence and racism is acceptable because the
message of hate and violence and racism does damage society
and on those grounds we can ban free speech... there is no ambiguity, philosophically,
for me that is there, apparently, for you....

free speech can only happen when it doesn't damage the society...

Kropotkin

[WendyDarling]

Damage society or the individual Peter? How are you personally damaged Peter?

[Is_Yde_opN]

[Peter Kropotkin]

Damage society or the individual Peter? How are you personally damaged Peter?

K: there are several answers to this, so be patient....

we live within a society.. if the society is damaged, it does damage me, personally....
I live within the American society, California division, and with any society, entity,
structure such as a society, car, house, institution, damage to one part of the structure
damages all other parts of the structure... think of the house with wall damage or with
damage to the foundation, the house may last a few years but eventually, the house
damage will do permanent damage to the house.....or if my body is damaged in some way,
the damage to that part will eventually damage the body permanently... for example,
if I allow my teeth to rot out, that will eventually damage my body, perhaps even kill my
body if I allow it to go on long enough......

so I was damage by the damage done to my society, my structure and any damage
to my structure, my society does damage me......

on another aspect of this, I have seen wealthy GOP types deny
that the society was hurting or was poor or was being damaged
by economic idea's.... how can the society be in trouble if I AM OK,
is the thinking.... it doesn't affect them, or so they think, so there
is nothing wrong with society.... think of the KING of France, Louis 16,
and how he thought the society was doing great and wonderfully because
he was king and above that sort of thing... if he wasn't hurting, then
society must be doing great or so goes the thinking.... just because
you THINK everything is doing ok, doesn't mean it is..........

I am part of society and if society is damaged, it does damage me,
even if I don't see it or even realize it.... I was damaged because I am
part of society and you were damaged, even if you don't see it because
you are part of society and any damage to part of a structure, damages
all aspects of the structure.....

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

K: and you stand with the message of hate and violence and racism....
it must suck to be you....because you stand with hate and violence
and racism.... standing in the dark..... whereas I stand in the light..
a much happier place....

Kropotkin

[WendyDarling]

Damage society or the individual Peter? How are you personally damaged Peter?

K: there are several answers to this, so be patient....

we live within a society.. if the society is damaged, it does damage me, personally....
I live within the American society, California division, and with any society, entity,
structure such as a society, car, house, institution, damage to one part of the structure
damages all other parts of the structure... think of the house with wall damage or with
damage to the foundation, the house may last a few years but eventually, the house
damage will do permanent damage to the house.....or if my body is damaged in some way,
the damage to that part will eventually damage the body permanently... for example,
if I allow my teeth to rot out, that will eventually damage my body, perhaps even kill my
body if I allow it to go on long enough......

so I was damage by the damage done to my society, my structure and any damage
to my structure, my society does damage me......

on another aspect of this, I have seen wealthy GOP types deny
that the society was hurting or was poor or was being damaged
by economic idea's.... how can the society be in trouble if I AM OK,
is the thinking.... it doesn't affect them, or so they think, so there
is nothing wrong with society.... think of the KING of France, Louis 16,
and how he thought the society was doing great and wonderfully because
he was king and above that sort of thing... if he wasn't hurting, then
society must be doing great or so goes the thinking.... just because
you THINK everything is doing ok, doesn't mean it is..........

I am part of society and if society is damaged, it does damage me,
even if I don't see it or even realize it.... I was damaged because I am
part of society and you were damaged, even if you don't see it because
you are part of society and any damage to part of a structure, damages
all aspects of the structure.....

Kropotkin

Be honest Peter, you are not personally damaged and that is why you cannot legitimize your claim of being damaged. I am part of your society and I was not damaged so I have falsified your claim.

[James S Saint]

the civil war began today... the civil war has begun.... on what side are you?

Kropotkin

You wish .. and exactly why is that?
Don't bother.
We know.

[Peter Kropotkin]

Damage society or the individual Peter? How are you personally damaged Peter?

K: there are several answers to this, so be patient....

we live within a society.. if the society is damaged, it does damage me, personally....
I live within the American society, California division, and with any society, entity,
structure such as a society, car, house, institution, damage to one part of the structure
damages all other parts of the structure... think of the house with wall damage or with
damage to the foundation, the house may last a few years but eventually, the house
damage will do permanent damage to the house.....or if my body is damaged in some way,
the damage to that part will eventually damage the body permanently... for example,
if I allow my teeth to rot out, that will eventually damage my body, perhaps even kill my
body if I allow it to go on long enough......

so I was damage by the damage done to my society, my structure and any damage
to my structure, my society does damage me......

on another aspect of this, I have seen wealthy GOP types deny
that the society was hurting or was poor or was being damaged
by economic idea's.... how can the society be in trouble if I AM OK,
is the thinking.... it doesn't affect them, or so they think, so there
is nothing wrong with society.... think of the KING of France, Louis 16,
and how he thought the society was doing great and wonderfully because
he was king and above that sort of thing... if he wasn't hurting, then
society must be doing great or so goes the thinking.... just because
you THINK everything is doing ok, doesn't mean it is..........

I am part of society and if society is damaged, it does damage me,
even if I don't see it or even realize it.... I was damaged because I am
part of society and you were damaged, even if you don't see it because
you are part of society and any damage to part of a structure, damages
all aspects of the structure.....

Kropotkin

Be honest Peter, you are not personally damaged and that is why you cannot legitimize your claim of being damaged. I am part of your society and I was not damaged so I have falsified your claim.

K: actually, you were damaged, you just don't have the wit or intelligence to see that.....
if you are part of society and every single person on ILP is part of society, then you were
damaged by the events in charlottsvile.... I do however understand your need to deny
this because you can't openly stand with the white nationalist terrorist because of
your fear and that is ok....... deny away... but the truth is there... you were damaged....

Kropotkin

[WendyDarling]

And off into liberal "La La Land" Peter goes completely detached from the reality I have shared with him.

[Fixed Cross]

Its just a warning of what will happen if the left goes too far in their attempts to uproot the USA.

It will not be fair, it will not be nice, it will be extremely deadly and over quite fast.
The left seems to understand this. The "quality newspapers" of Europe (Financial Times, etc) have responded to the attack by toning down their anti Trump rhetoric and admitting that his electorate consists of real people with real issues.

The left will keep responding to right-wing violence by cowering, precisely as they respond to islamic violence -
violence is the only thing the left understands - apparently.

I had expected these papers to strengthen their tone, as invertebrate humans are just not something you count on encountering. But the reality is that the left has no spine and that the more violence the right will use, the more the left will doubt itself.

Civil war is this unlikely. The left does not produce individuals capable of actual combat. They only produce gangs of thugs that attack people in smaller numbers. Now that the right mobilizes in some force, the left will simply be staying home and getting on with their privileged lives.

[WendyDarling]

The liberal lefts seem to be dishonest and crazy mixed together. They have no ability to address issues separately, everything is lumped together in their delusions.

[Arminius]

Let's not get grandiose.

This is just another battle in a war that's been going on for a long time.

I have enough Leninist sympathies that I'm accepting of accelerationist ideas. I'm also a bit old and out of shape to go out again and start bashing the fash.

The Onion does it best: http://www.clickhole.com/blogpost/my-re ... viole-6489

Let's let this zit pop. But let's not pretend it's going to be some civil war.

The Lenin statue in Seattle is going to come down, just watch.

This statue has outlasted the cold war. The USSR and the USA were allies. Probably they remained allies till the day when the USA became the USSR.

[URUZ]

Lol. Leftist scaremongering and denials.

There isn't going to be a civil war, quite simply because most people aren't invested in "fighting" as if they were being attacked or their life were on the line. It isn't. The government isn't divided into two factions that are warring for territory and power, this is simply a political split the likes of which happens all the time.

Of course the media and Obozo/Clontin/Soros types will keep trying to turn this into a real war, just as they keep trying to create war with Russia too. And little pawns like PKommunist will keep playing along.

[WendyDarling]

Lol. Leftist scaremongering and denials.

There isn't going to be a civil war, quite simply because most people aren't invested in "fighting" as if they were being attacked or their life were on the line. It isn't. The government isn't divided into two factions that are warring for territory and power, this is simply a political split the likes of which happens all the time.

Of course the media and Obozo/Clontin/Soros types will keep trying to turn this into a real war, just as they keep trying to create war with Russia too. And little pawns like PKommunist will keep playing along.

Are you sure? Even when they underhandedly try to impeach Trump?