The solution to economics

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Re: The solution to economics

Postby MagsJ » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:52 am

someone wrote:There’s only one thing that sends someone to hell: contradiction.

[Insert name here] I hope for your sake that you can currently admit that I understand existence better than you do.

As you being a moral nihilist (currently), I don’t hold out much hope.

If it shuts someone up, shall I just agree to the above, and done?

Tee hee hee :D

:lol:
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Re: The solution to economics

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:46 pm

This idea is pretty good Silhouette. In fact it is quite robust.

It relates nicely to value ontology as well; a person is compelled to value outward in terms of his own wealth. The phenomenon of wealth, a systemic relation, is mitigated by the deeper phenomenon of value, of actual relation.
This would probably stabilize the social fabric.

I think this is worth developing.

What is especially worth while about this idea is that it creates a new dimension of merit/worth, which can be attained through the more superficial dimension of wealth - namely, social status based on actual merit.
I Have always found it unfair that people who pay enormous amounts of taxes don't get any credit for what they pay for - it is a bit of a waste not to acknowledge these merits, as they are very real and such acknowledgement would, as you suggest, form an impetus for spending on the social cause.

If we can integrate the unorganized impulses to be charitable and valuable to the community in a mathematically calibrated social reward system, this would in fact produce an upward motion of cultural growth.
Yes, very good.
"Value" would acquire a dimension beyond both surplus and need, a dimension addressed only in terms of, well, actual value.
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Re: The solution to economics

Postby Ecmandu » Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:15 pm

MagsJ wrote:
someone wrote:There’s only one thing that sends someone to hell: contradiction.

[Insert name here] I hope for your sake that you can currently admit that I understand existence better than you do.

As you being a moral nihilist (currently), I don’t hold out much hope.

If it shuts someone up, shall I just agree to the above, and done?

Tee hee hee :D

:lol:


Alright MagsJ (and these comments are short Sil, and your thread is so good it’s not remotely a hijack... MagsJ and I have issues to resolve in brief posts)

MagsJ, every being in all existence is currently in hell. It’s not a matter of ‘if’, it’s a matter of ‘how bad’ and “what are you going to do about it.”?

Lack of contradiction protects. Preaching “zero sum consent violating realities don’t work” is the only memory you won’t have to regret ... regretting everything else keeps you out of hell. Do I still contradict myself occasionally ? Hell yes I do!

Unlike a lot of posters here... I know for a fact that the spirit world exists. I’m fucking grand central station for the spirit world!
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Re: The solution to economics

Postby phoneutria » Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:32 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:I Have always found it unfair that people who pay enormous amounts of taxes don't get any credit for what they pay for - it is a bit of a waste not to acknowledge these merits, as they are very real and such acknowledgement would, as you suggest, form an impetus for spending on the social cause.

If we can integrate the unorganized impulses to be charitable and valuable to the community in a mathematically calibrated social reward system, this would in fact produce an upward motion of cultural growth.
Yes, very good.
"Value" would acquire a dimension beyond both surplus and need, a dimension addressed only in terms of, well, actual value.


That's why they donate to charities, it's 100% tax deductible.
Makes you look charitable, but it's actually just your taxes going elsewhere.
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Re: The solution to economics

Postby Ecmandu » Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:44 pm

phoneutria wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:I Have always found it unfair that people who pay enormous amounts of taxes don't get any credit for what they pay for - it is a bit of a waste not to acknowledge these merits, as they are very real and such acknowledgement would, as you suggest, form an impetus for spending on the social cause.

If we can integrate the unorganized impulses to be charitable and valuable to the community in a mathematically calibrated social reward system, this would in fact produce an upward motion of cultural growth.
Yes, very good.
"Value" would acquire a dimension beyond both surplus and need, a dimension addressed only in terms of, well, actual value.


That's why they donate to charities, it's 100% tax deductible.
Makes you look charitable, but it's actually just your taxes going elsewhere.


It’s all for show. The super rich don’t even have to pay any taxes (tax loopholes with lawyers only the super rich can afford)... some super rich people do pay taxes (for appearances) but it doesn’t matter Because of corporate welfare. Everyone else’s tax money is going into their pockets. They’re playing a zero risk game. These are not the brave and the brilliant... it’s a zero risk game. Anyone at my level of intelligence and even much lower can do this.

Silhouettes argument fails because sociopaths will never let it occur as a “gentlemen’s agreement”.

Laws need to be rewritten by the people, and I mean everyone but the ultra rich!
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Re: The solution to economics

Postby phoneutria » Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:30 pm

why don't you make your own thread about your own plan, and stop trashing his?
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Re: The solution to economics

Postby Ecmandu » Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:18 pm

phoneutria wrote:why don't you make your own thread about your own plan, and stop trashing his?


You’re feeling protective of silhouette, I understand this.

Silhouette is a man who is more than capable of responding to criticism. I know this about silhouette.

If someone states something like we should all be Keysnians, and someone else states “there are other options. That’s not trolling, that’s standard debate.

Just because Silhouette and I both came to different solutions independently !!! Does not make either of our ideas garbage. I used to hate message boards where all they said was “cite”. Fucking hated those fucks! I’m sure silhouette does too. As if someone can’t possibly come up with their own idea.

So the question is, am I bullying silhouette?

I don’t think so.
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Re: The solution to economics

Postby phoneutria » Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:53 pm

No, you're derailing a thread by going "mine is better".
It's not about you, stop acting like a fucking kid.

If you want to give criticism, give it.
No need to insert some other idea into a thread already devoted to the discussion of one, like an attention whore.
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Re: The solution to economics

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:22 pm

"Solution" to economics he says... LOL, when will you learn Sil? Ever?

Let me guess, your "solution" is to take my taxpayer money, and dole it out among the poor and whomever else YOU decide, with MY money?
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Re: The solution to economics

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:41 pm

Am I the only one who has understood this thing?
I don't see anyone addressing its particulars.
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Re: The solution to economics

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:54 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Am I the only one who has understood this thing?
I don't see anyone addressing its particulars.

Fine, I'll take the bait...
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Re: The solution to economics

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:00 pm

Silhouette wrote:You heard it here first - finally a solution to bridge the divide between the economic left and right.

Economics is not 'divided' left and right inasmuch as it is divided up and down. Almost everybody is concerned about class and wealth, having money, not the left-right divide which is as I will outline here...

Left & Right is divided by two primary factors:
1. How to make/aquire money.
2. How to spend (whose) money.


The "Right" promote and encourage, believe in, a system of making money by "hard work". Work 9-to-5, and you deserve your money. Furthermore, the Right believes the government should tax employer and employee very little or not at all (going all the way to Libertarians, which is as "Far Right" as you can get). Libertarians want a Privatized Economy, meaning, that people would need to pay for "government services", such as privatized police, firefighters, doctors, and even Military. The problem with Far-Right economics is, a weak military, and infighting. A nation is only strong through public military, meaning, everybody pays, and pays a lot, to gain and keep Military strength. If you don't understand this, then you don't understand "Right" economics.

The "Left" promote and encourage, believe in, a system of making money by "entitlement". By merely being born, you deserve your money. Thus it is Government, Culture, Society, Religion, Parents, Evil-Whitey, who 'owe' everybody, especially the poor. According to the Left, the poor, are poor, and will always be poor, not because of their work-ethic, lack of ability, lack of ambition, but rather out of oppression. The rich "keep" the poor down, using and abusing them. And so, based on (In)justice, The Left is less concerned with actually "making money" as opposed to Redistribution of the current economy. Thus the Left focus on high taxes, increasing taxes, government subsidies, welfare, "social programs", social justice, etc etc.
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Re: The solution to economics

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:02 pm

(you can keep your "math magic" to yourself)
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Re: The solution to economics

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:07 pm

The biggest divide between "Left and Right", economically, is the ability to work.

The Right believes, if you are disabled, and physically cannot work, then you should receive NO money.

The Left believes, if you are disabled, and physically cannot work, then you SHOULD receive money.


This is the fundamental rift between left & right economics.


Furthermore, the SOLUTION, of the Right, is that disabled people should depend on family, friends, church, God, when it comes to disability. But "the government", and taxpayers, are NOT responsible for others fundamentally. "It's not my fault that you're disabled, single-mother, injured veteran, etc."

The SOLUTION of the Left, is redistribution of taxes. The Left claim, that if you do not or will not "redistribute", according to their discretion and control, then it is a matter of injustice. This spills over immediately into "Healthcare", which also symbolizes, clearly, the division between left & right economically.

Are you truly "entitled" to healthcare, just for being born? Or must you work for it? What if you can't work? And how hard should you work, how many hours? Should "the government" be in charge of health?


Right says "No." Left says "Yes."
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Re: The solution to economics

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:10 pm

Forget about left and right.
This proposal is interesting because it eliminates taxes and allows for maximum spending on the state nonetheless.

Why are all the extremely rich liberal idiots? Because they feel guilty. They have too much money to understand what they're supposed to do with it.
If this is regulated with some intelligence, such people can basically pay for all the things taxpayers normally pay for,- provided, that the military is included in Silhouettes plan.

There are two concerns that do need to be addressed in our economy:
-growing deficits
-growing waste
this is because value of money and value of value aren't properly connected.

an agent was missing from the math; a dimension, namely: humanity. Aka free will.
Freedom of enterprise would be guaranteed here. I don't see a downside yet.
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Re: The solution to economics

Postby Ecmandu » Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:02 am

phoneutria wrote:No, you're derailing a thread by going "mine is better".
It's not about you, stop acting like a fucking kid.

If you want to give criticism, give it.
No need to insert some other idea into a thread already devoted to the discussion of one, like an attention whore.


Every idea of “this is better” is what every fucking debate in the world is about! You mean to tell me that silhouette hates debates.

Honestly! You don’t know Silhouette at all!

Your posts are absurd to me.
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Re: The solution to economics

Postby Ecmandu » Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:06 am

Tax free systems only pave roads for the super rich. I have actually (when I was much younger) had the distinction of living on a private road. It’s the twilight zone of America !! All the houses on this road paid for the upkeep of this road.

If taxes are eliminated ... the poorest roads would never be maintained! Hell! Without taxes Eisenhower couldn’t have built all the transcontinental highway system we all take for granted (also corporate welfare!).

What would happen if all roads were suddenly privatized? A fucking shit show! Taxes matter! Public roads matter! How would you like to be going down interstate 5, and the road owner decides they don’t like red cars, so their private security forces pull you over and shoot you for trespassing!

People don’t think this shit through!

Public land is awesome!

That’s what tax dollars do for us
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Re: The solution to economics

Postby MagsJ » Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:03 am

A system that fostered indefinite economic stability, low taxation, a realistic living wage for grown people working full time jobs to support their families, affordable essential goods produce and services, and other such essential consumer needs, would be more than well-met I’m sure.

The only tax-free countries I know of are those who have oil bolstering their economies, so what would be the bolster for countries that don’t?

Have you tried running a SIM on it Sil, to see how it would fare over time? now that would be interesting.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Wait, What! - MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: The solution to economics

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:41 am

Basically what this amounts to is the formation of a spiritual aristocracy from a monetary one.

What I like about Silhouette is that he so proud that he has to prove he is objectively worth something as a philosopher from time to time. This is what philosophy is made of, proud men, and some very proud women as well. There never was a humble teacher. Just smart enough to act humbly here and there so people might be more inclined to take his teachings to heart, and think about them honestly.

What the dude is proposing her is momentous, as it is a discontinuation of "A" = "A" -
and a possible re-connect through "A" ><"A".
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Re: The solution to economics

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:45 pm

Entitlement Vs. Labor

Let's hear the "solution".

Tax brackets are already well-established. The political battle rages onward. Where is a single bridge between left & right? Show me.
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Re: The solution to economics

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:52 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Entitlement Vs. Labor

Let's hear the "solution".

Tax brackets are already well-established. The political battle rages onward. Where is a single bridge between left & right? Show me.


Entitlement vs. Labor ?

If only the people who worked the hardest got the most money! Wouldn’t that be beautiful?!

Do you really think the ultra rich work as hard as a coal miner?

Fuck no they don’t!

Do you think their innovations are better than what a coal miner does? Fuck no their not!!

And this is the thing when analyzing economics, who deserves what?
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Re: The solution to economics

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:01 pm

Thought:

the disconnect between "$" and "$", where "$"><"$" links in with the christian "forgiveness of sin" - the structure of the debt is not allowed be the standard for the sequence of events.
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Re: The solution to economics

Postby Ecmandu » Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:00 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Thought:

the disconnect between "$" and "$", where "$"><"$" links in with the christian "forgiveness of sin" - the structure of the debt is not allowed be the standard for the sequence of events.


Because of our current debt in the US, other countries actually own half of the total economic value of our country.

Nobody has quite called in that debt because we’re selling that this is an investment world... in a bizarre twist of economics, we’re telling people, “your investment in the US is worth more than 20 trillion dollars”. It’s basically like the stock market.

The US itself forgives tons of debts. So they are seen (because of this) as a good investment.
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Re: The solution to economics

Postby phoneutria » Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:24 pm

as annoying as ecmandu is, I agree with him on the following

we don't we hear the wealthy boast about being the ones paying the highest taxes of all
you'd think that they'd throw this number around all over the media
"I paid x millions in tax this year! y% of my income!"

instead they keep their tax returns under lock and key
because they are scamming the people out of their taxes due in every possible way that they can

because fuck taxes

i can see this working in a sort of science fiction utopic flick, with a different species entirely, that evolved with those values built into their physiology. not us apes.

if i have to pay $300 for a pound of rice which costs $3 to my housekeeper, I'm going to pay her $10 to go buy me a pound of rice, and she is going to take it
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Re: The solution to economics

Postby Ecmandu » Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:53 pm

Phoneutria,

I’ll take a backhanded compliment over nothing at all.
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