Which version of capitalism?

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Which version of capitalism?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:41 am

For example....
Do you include in your model of capitalism:
1) Anti-trust regulations - should the formation of monopolies be regulated and related how much government resources should go into copywrite and patent enforcement or is that a restriction of freedom and how does this get resolved internationally?
2) fiat fractional reserve banking - and if so, how do you see government both enforcing and regulating this? IOW this is a government granted extra power given to some people. You need government to give them the power to make money out of nothing and be able to lend it and demand it back - court systems and laws to enforce this and also the mechanism to create money out of nothing to give it to people.
3) Shareholder centered capitalism - iow, there was a large shift over recent decades to making management compensation based on short term shareholder gains. This is in tremendous contrast to corporate priorities in the 40s - 70s. Do you think this is a good change, a bad one, one that should be regulated and how.
4) Stock markets
5) Derivatives and other making money without producing things or even supporting the production of things. The finacialization of capitalism. IOW over recent decades the amount of money made via production has reduced and the amount of money made through creative investment has increased. Even large companies that used to make the vast bulk of their money via production/services now have a much higher percentage of income via creative investment.
6) Are you for Glass–Steagall type legislation and separation in finance or not? Should there be any limits on this sector? If so, which ones?
7) Corporations were the first globalists. Should the government curtail this in any way? Should corporations be allowed to interfere with democracy in other nations and through what means? Hands off completely, partly, some regulation, none?
8) What limits, if any, would you put on money controlling politicians? Issues surrounding lobbying, revolving door in oversight, campaign finance, bribes, and, in its own category......
9) generation of foreign policy?
10) What government oversight over various industries, if any? Should the government have the power to regulate certain industries - food industries, industries using potentially dangerous chemicals, etc.? Is it assumed that the market will eliminate, at least in the long run, companies that do not engage in safe or responsible practices? How do we prevent control of industry control of its own oversight, if one believes there should be some oversight?
11) Originally corporate charters, since they grant people priviledges other people do not have and these priviledges are government enforced, were withdrawn from companies that broke the law, for example, or misued their charters. That practice ended. The nation's founders were well aware that corporate entities were a threat to democracy and other facets of what they considered national health and had in place ways to restrain and even revoke the charters of problematic companies. This is not longer a practice. Should it be? Should there be a discussion about why the conservative practice of mainting this and other traditions was ended?
12) what regulation of Surveillance capitalism (as opposed to government surveillance) should there be, if any?
13) Is media a special case? By this I mean, should centralized control be avoided? How should government regulate media, if at all? How does government regulate things like the commons involved in radio frequencies? Or is this to simply be market driven?

In a sense I am just asking for stand taking. Without focusing on me and what I must or must not believe. What regulation, if any, do you believe in. And if you think one of the above examples needs no regulation at all, could you explain why there are no problems if there is no regulation. And this is not some fait accompli fantasy on my part. I am curious and interested in what people think will and should work, in their versions of capitalism. In part how the invisible hand will regulate these things, and why it seems like it hasn't when it seems that way. Further since capitalism, for example, actually demands a great deal of enforcement and regulation in some areas - for example banking and stock markets - why is this ok, if one is against regulation and enforcement in general. Corporate priviledge, banking special powers, and contract enforcement, and corporate regulation of government - which are central to current US capitalism require courts, police, regulation, prisons, regulators, auditors, laws and enforcement to keep them going. Industry demands this and needs it. Any limits on any of this?
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Re: Which version of capitalism?

Postby Dan~ » Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:43 pm

I think your list is a list of crapitalism in general.
Global-Crapitalism makes countries hopelessly in debt to fake money.
Crapitalism was invented by evil clowns.
To buy more custard pies, balloons, shoes, etc.
Clowns are spawned when ever there is a circus ( indecisive population ).
A circus is a state where people in general have stupid ideas.
These manifest into stupid actions.
Survival of the stupidest.
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Re: Which version of capitalism?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:43 am

Dan~ wrote:I think your list is a list of crapitalism in general.
Global-Crapitalism makes countries hopelessly in debt to fake money.
Crapitalism was invented by evil clowns.
To buy more custard pies, balloons, shoes, etc.
Clowns are spawned when ever there is a circus ( indecisive population ).
A circus is a state where people in general have stupid ideas.
These manifest into stupid actions.
Survival of the stupidest.
So, what is your hoped for economic system?
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Re: Which version of capitalism?

Postby promethean75 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:40 am

Thunderdome style mercantilism.
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Re: Which version of capitalism?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:14 am

promethean75 wrote:Thunderdome style mercantilism.
Hard to tell in a forum like this one if this is serious or not. But if it is serious, can you say what this would mean in relation to any of the issues I raised.
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Re: Which version of capitalism?

Postby Dan~ » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:19 am

Karpel Tunnel wrote:So, what is your hoped for economic system?


Crapitalism, but they must heavily tax the rich, and banks.
Also direct democracy, none of that representative two party crap.
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Re: Which version of capitalism?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:23 am

Dan~ wrote:
Karpel Tunnel wrote:So, what is your hoped for economic system?


Crapitalism, but they must heavily tax the rich, and banks.
Also direct democracy, none of that representative two party crap.
So like netbased voting on legislation and policy?
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Re: Which version of capitalism?

Postby Dan~ » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:28 am

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Dan~ wrote:
Karpel Tunnel wrote:So, what is your hoped for economic system?


Crapitalism, but they must heavily tax the rich, and banks.
Also direct democracy, none of that representative two party crap.
So like netbased voting on legislation and policy?

Voting on everything as much as possible.
I like http://www.accuradio.com , internet radio.
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Re: Which version of capitalism?

Postby d0rkyd00d » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:32 pm

I will come back to OP momentarily, but a brief sidetrack....

Does it not seem as though the expectations we place on capitalism and free markets are too high? Even to the point of being a disservice to capitalism itself?

Many expect capitalism and free markets to accurately price goods and services.
Many expect it to be the best, and maybe the only, tool to create a "tide that lifts all boats."
Many expect capitalism to take care of health and human services, arguably pitting profits against people in a battle that could be avoided.
Many expect capitalism to be self regulatory to a high degree, arguing corporations that rip people off will lose business to corporations that don't.

That is a lot of slack for capitalism to pick up. If one views capitalism as being best applicable within a certain range of human economic activity, versus as a solution to everything, the weaknesses of capitalism is brought into sharper focus.
"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." -Voltaire

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Re: Which version of capitalism?

Postby d0rkyd00d » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:41 pm

Dan~ wrote:I think your list is a list of crapitalism in general.
Global-Crapitalism makes countries hopelessly in debt to fake money.
Crapitalism was invented by evil clowns.
To buy more custard pies, balloons, shoes, etc.
Clowns are spawned when ever there is a circus ( indecisive population ).
A circus is a state where people in general have stupid ideas.
These manifest into stupid actions.
Survival of the stupidest.


I think you've got me beat in the cynicism department. :lol:

Capitalism is a neutral concept, how it is practiced determines whether it is to our benefit or detriment.
"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." -Voltaire

"If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do."
-Bertrand Russell
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