How H. G. Wells, A. Huxley, G. Orwell Saw the Social Future.

Urwrongx1000 · January 30, 2021, 9:01am

Oh I’m sure he’s rolling in his grave.

At least it makes a good t-shirt: “Make Orwell Fiction Again”

obsrvr524 · January 30, 2021, 9:17am

MagsJ · January 30, 2021, 9:58am

I think it always the former, for the reasons you’ve stated, for seeking methods and means.

obsrvr524 · January 30, 2021, 4:06pm

After a high speed replay of the (IQ^2) debate (much to the annoyance of my wife & co.) my analysis is the following –

The unreduced strategies mentioned concerning The Brave New World were -

Identity political structure
Psychological conditioning thru obfuscation
Distractive consumerism
Sexual mandates
Elimination of the family unite
Genetic engineering
Love only for the state
Morality in a bottle
Subtle extermination of the uncontrolled – “pests”
Mood altering drugs

And concerning Nineteen Eight-Four –

Subtle speech control
Hypocrisy
Artificial antagonists
Power lust
Thought crime
Rewriting of history
No need to think
Authoritarian discourse
Authoritarian logic
Power of hatred – divisiveness
Subjective reality
Psychological conditioning thru suffering
Power thru suffering
Hatred, fear, triumph, self abasement - only

I think for decades the Brave New World scenario was in play – techniques to subtly and gently enslave the population without them realizing they were enslaved. Huxley didn’t get into the more fascist methods.

But then what no one expected – Mr Trump became US President.

Mr Trump was/is sort of a crude Jesus figure – standing up for the masses, tearing the curtain on the establishment, turning over the money changing tables… The Jewish coalition had to be thinking – “OH HELL – here we go AGAIN!”

So they sent the Devil after him (the Muller team) who found nothing to convict. And now they are headed for the Pontious Pilat trial. Mr Trump intends to remain silent. And after which they are already planning the crucifixion.

Throughout Rome the Christians were then persecuted – the current effort to ban all conservatives from society – even jail them merely for being associated with Mr Trump or conservative ideas.

And I think that is when the Huxley narrative switched to the Orwell narrative – fascist enforcement of “unity” to the state.

Orwell saw society not merely being tricked into compliance (mostly through language manipulation and mind control techniques) but also by authoritarian intimidation and forced submission (fascism) – not caring that the population now know they are enslaved.

A question is why did Orwell think that force would be necessary?

Actually James answered why it would be necessary but I suspect Orwell was probably just going by Nazi experience.

The Brave New World tactics would require absolute but hidden control over media and the economy (James’ “Media, Money, and Medicine”). And realistically that is always partially exposed – never truly absolutely hidden. That implies a potential for “tearing the curtain” – which is exactly what happened.

So we can see from Rome-Judaea history that eventually tyrannical fascism is a historical reality and with history repeating itself and at a weak state – what else could really be expected? – Authoritarian control over speech, enhanced surveillance, persecution of dissidents, banning of any means for the population to resist, and open abandonment of civil rights – no more US Constitution silliness.

The Brave New World narrative was just a little too weak to last. The Orwellian narrative was an inevitable backstop.

Huxley was a dreamer of a utopia through obfuscation – no need for the ugly extortion. Orwell was more realistic – some subterfuge but reinforced by fascism until all resistance was simply forgotten – relegated to the “black hole of forgetfulness” – the Abyss.

And of course following history – Welcome to the fall of Rome and The New Dark Age.

It has all been done before.

Huxley dreamt of French socialism.
Orwell remembered Nazi socialism - the inevitable consequent

I wonder if either thought about the Christians and the Fall of Rome.

obsrvr524 · January 30, 2021, 4:51pm

Oh - please forgive me Mr Wellhuxwell - I forgot to welcome you to the water board (stick around and you will not really be drowning in muck and issues - you just feel like you are - an interesting experience. )

Sleyor_Wellhuxwell · January 30, 2021, 11:59pm

Thank you very much.

@ ALL.

We should deal with the fact that many “social” (a magic word) and other phenomena and events belong together.

Examples: the deregulation and thus the increase of power of high finance to an unprecedented extent; the wars, whether local, regional, global or universal; the fear mongering (e.g. of catastrophes, allegedly e.g. by climate or/and epidemics (last: “Covid-19”)); the non-governmental organizations; the support of selected states (last the Chinese, whose rise became possible also by it); the key positions in the most important states; the westernal technology threatening the nature of the living beings (especially e.g. nano-, gene-, robot technology, AI); the eugenics for 0.0001%, the dysgenics for 99.9999% of the people; the racism (e.g. which has been waged against the white race for decades now); mass migration (immigration into the Occident: abolition of the Occident); the extermination of the middle class, the civil society (since it exclusively concerns the Occidentals: extermination of Occidentals); the abolition of Occidental national states (in favor of privatization); Occidental nihilism (annihilation of Occidental values) and deconstructionism in general; Occidental fashion as a substitute for origin, genealogy, tradition, history, past, family, children (since exclusively concerning Occidentals: extermination of the Occidentals); feminism (since exclusively concerning the Occidentals: extermination of the Occidentals); genderism, although the gender affiliation is clearly recognizable by the organs; plutocracy disguised as democracy resp. kleptocracy; the mafiotic corporatism practiced above and the downward dictated ecologism and communism; the deliberate confusion of truth and lie; the probably not coincidental similarity of many conditions with those described e.g. by Wells, Huxley, Orwell. The implementation of the strategy points means a giant profit, that is a giant increase of power for a dwarfed group of people.

Otto · January 31, 2021, 12:33am

Oswald Spengler:

But the greatest danger has not even been mentioned: How, if one day the class struggle and the race struggle unite to make an end with the white world? This is in the nature of things, and neither revolution will spurn the aid of the other simply because it despises its bearer. Common hatred extinguishes mutual contempt. And how, if at their And how if a white adventurer, such as we have seen in many a case, puts himself at the head of them, one whose wild soul could not breathe in the hothouse of civilization and tried to sate himself on dangers in daring colonial enterprises, among pirates, in the Foreign Legion, until he suddenly sees here a great goal before his eyes? With such natures history prepares its great surprises. The disgust of deep and strong people at our conditions and the hatred of deeply disappointed people could already increase to a revolt that wants destruction. This, too, was not foreign to Caesar’s time. In any case, when the white proletariat breaks loose in the United States, the Negro will be on the spot, and behind him Indians and Japanese will be waiting for their hour. Black France, in such a case, would have no hesitation in surpassing the Paris scenes of 1792 and 1871. And would the white leaders of the class struggle ever be embarrassed if colored riots opened the way for them? They have never been choosy in their means. Nothing would change if Moscow fell silent as a commander. It has done its work. The work continues itself. We have waged our wars and class struggles before the eyes of the colored people, humiliated and betrayed ourselves among ourselves; we have invited them to join in. Would it be a miracle if they finally did the same for themselves?

[size=85](Oswald Spengler, Years of Decision - Germany and the World Historical Development, 1933, pp. 164-165 - the official translation of the title is: The Hour of Decision).[/size]

Oswald Spengler:

Here the coming history rises high above economic hardships and domestic ideals. Here the elementary powers of life itself enter into the struggle which is about everything or nothing. The prefiguration of Caesarism will very soon become more definite, more conscious, more undisguised. The masks from the age of parliamentary intermediate states will fall completely. All attempts to absorb the content of the future in parties will be quickly forgotten. The fascist forms of these decades will pass into new, unforeseeable forms, and nationalism of today will also disappear. Only the warlike, »Prussian« spirit will remain as a form-giving power, everywhere, not only in Germany. Fate, once concentrated in meaningful forms and great traditions, will make history in the form of formless individual powers. Caesar’s legions are waking up again.

[size=85](Oswald Spengler, Years of Decision - Germany and the World Historical Development, 1933, pp. 164 - the official translation of the book title is: The Hour of Decision).[/size]

And also Caesar had to prefer foreign soldiers (e.g. from Germany and Gaul), because they were more combative, braver, more reliable, more alive than the overprotected and too much spoiled ancient Roman cowards.

The time of the majority of Western people is over (for the second time, if we consider the ancient time as well). This majority has become overprotected and too much spoiled cowards.

Urwrongx1000 · January 31, 2021, 12:36am

Absolutely this

This is why these cowards need to threaten violence here on this philosophy forum, because they have nothing left in terms of conviction, argument, debate, and rationality.

Sleyor_Wellhuxwell · February 6, 2021, 7:53pm

Will the “cowards” get another chance to do better? Or are they all fateful victims, hopeless cases?

obsrvr524 · February 6, 2021, 11:21pm

To actually get into the real I think they have to get into the feel - they have to personally face an enemy on their own - and get used to winning. Having others do all of your fighting for you just encourages the cowardice. That is why you want experienced fighters making the decisions - not just experienced users.

Sleyor_Wellhuxwell · February 9, 2021, 2:04am

Or they will die out.

Orwell studied totalitarianism, especially communism, also in terms of forgetting. He did not yet know the technical possibilities that exist today, but he was already betting that people’s memory would be taken away by communism, which he himself experienced at times (he was temporarily a communist himself).

As for the criticism of modern technology, let us recall Heidegger:

Wikipedia:

Gestell (or sometimes Ge-stell) is a German word used by twentieth-century German philosopher Martin Heidegger to describe what lies behind or beneath modern technology.[1] Heidegger introduced the term in 1954 in The Question Concerning Technology, a text based on the lecture “The Framework” (“Das Gestell”) first presented on December 1, 1949, in Bremen.[2] It was derived from the root word stellen, which means “to put” or “to place” and combined with the German prefix Ge-, which denotes a form of “gathering” or “collection”.[3] The term encompasses all types of entities and orders them in a certain way.[3]

Heidegger applied the concept of Gestell to his exposition of the essence of technology.[4] He concluded that technology is fundamentally Enframing (Gestell).[5] As such, the essence of technology is Gestell. Indeed, “Gestell, literally ‘framing’, is an all-encompassing view of technology, not as a means to an end, but rather a mode of human existence”.[6] Heidegger further explained that in a more comprehensive sense, the concept is the final mode of the historical self-concealment of primordial φύσις.[4]

In defining the essence of technology as Gestell, Heidegger indicated that all that has come to presence in the world has been enframed. Such enframing pertains to the manner reality appears or unveils itself in the period of modern technology and people born into this “mode of ordering” are always embedded into the Gestell (enframing).[7] Thus what is revealed in the world, what has shown itself as itself (the truth of itself) required first an Enframing, literally a way to exist in the world, to be able to be seen and understood. Concerning the essence of technology and how we see things in our technological age, the world has been framed as the “standing-reserve.” Heidegger writes,

[list]Enframing means the gathering together of that setting-upon which sets upon man, i.e., challenges him forth, to reveal the real, in the mode of ordering, as standing-reserve. Enframing means that way of revealing which holds sway in the essence of modern technology and which is itself nothing technological.[8]list]

Furthermore, Heidegger uses the word in a way that is uncommon by giving Gestell an active role. In ordinary usage the word would signify simply a display apparatus of some sort, like a book rack, or picture frame; but for Heidegger, Gestell is literally a challenging forth, or performative “gathering together”, for the purpose of revealing or presentation. If applied to science and modern technology, “standing reserve” is active in the case of a river once it generates electricity or the earth if revealed as a coal-mining district or the soil as a mineral deposit.[9]

For some scholars, Gestell effectively explains the violence of technology. This is attributed to Heidegger’s explanation that, when Gestell holds sway, “it drives out every other possibility of revealing” and that it “conceals that revealing which, in the sense of poiesis, lets what presences come forth into appearance.”[10]

“Only a God can save us.” - Martin Heidegger.

“The humans will only be used in the way they are needed.” - Martin Heidegger.

So, if they will not be needed at all anymore, then … (see above).

obsrvr524 · September 22, 2021, 9:05am

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alasBxZsb40[/youtube]
Aldous Huxley Interviewed by Mike Wallace - 1958

Amazing predictive of exactly what is happening today - and why he believed it.

Meno2 · September 22, 2021, 4:53pm

Most all were reacting to the body politic described by Marx and and Nietzche. In fact the whole structural construct that befell the ambigous emergence of the trouble that Mattered the duplex ambiguity of dialectical materialism - befelled hundreds of millions, in that de-facto difference with idealized absolute space.

Therefore the digital rhetoric , formerly dual interpretation needed real teeth to chew the opposing

And maybe, this is indeed what the gods consider near twilight.

Steven King’s shining takes the father to some relationship to basic level of induced hubris for the sake of pressureacting long forgotten ideals.with the son, 'for his own sake?

.is it retarded to do philosophy as it should, rather then keeping up with the newest trends marked as 'discoveries? That’s another iffy tossup.

obsrvr524 · November 1, 2021, 5:25pm

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz6FGnVlBjM[/youtube]
[list]Aldous Huxley as Narrator[/list:u]
[list]The Globalist’s New World Order[/list:u]

iambiguous · November 1, 2021, 7:20pm

Not sure if you are a globalist?

Here’s how to tell:

Are you a member of the Coalition of Truth?

No?

Then you are a globalist.

Not only that, but you are being observed. Think KGB.

Also, another clue revolves around how you react to this:

“Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it”

It’s said only those who are ranking members of COT grasp the significance of this. And, curiously enough, not just philosophically.

Pedro_I_Rengel · November 1, 2021, 7:34pm

You are misinformed. High finance has only become more regulated with time, this trend has been steady and continuous. It is this regulation which assures it stays in the hands of those who already have the hundreds of millions of dollars required to comply with the regulations, and the friendships with other high power individuals required to make those hundreds of millions go the distance.

Regulation is what powerful people use to fence out potential competitors.

Regulation is also now magically what people that don’t know anything about finance demand more and more, in fact are convinced is the only obvious thing to do.

What better way to monopolize power than to ban competition?

You should do some serious study of the financial world, and the history of legislation concerning regulation, before you espouse an opinion like this.

And, if the information you do believe you have happens to coincide with any headline ever, be suspicious of your own self, and do serious research.

Pedro_I_Rengel · November 1, 2021, 7:47pm

Take care that your opinions on finance are based on rigorous study, and not on a vague feeling that things are “out of control.”

That feeling is the only one that people who have the most basic skill in propaganda and proper funding to broadcast it in volume require to get you to go along with anything they desire, regardless of how you feel about them personally.

Peter_Kropotkin · November 1, 2021, 8:18pm

K: I would add to this, if you are not a COT, then you are by definition, a communist…
a traitor to America, a Liberal… which in conservative speak is the same thing
as being a traitor… a terrorist… to be a Member of the COT… is to be an American,
but that there is a funny thing, Observe isn’t actually an American…
just as UR isn’t actually an American and as Pedreeo seems to be a member of the
COT, I am guessing he isn’t American either… Someone mentioned Venezuela…
so, once again, not native Americans declaring actual American’s as being…

“traitors” “Liberals” “Terrorist” a “Communist”

I wonder how that works?

as everyone seems to have me on Ignore, I may never know…
as an actual American, you know…

Kropotkin

Peter_Kropotkin · November 1, 2021, 9:04pm

so according to the COT…non natives people can tell actual Americans
what they are, you know, as Americans… So I guess we can
have blind people tell us about the painting “Guernica”, what it looks like
and the form the painting takes compared to an earlier painting of Picasso… say,
Les Demoiselles d’Avignon…

or have an stupid person explain the two theories of Relativity to us…
using the math as well…

I wonder how that is going to work? you know, as an Actual American…
having non American’s telling me how to be an American…

Kropotkin

Sleyor_Wellhuxwell · November 9, 2021, 11:01pm

@ Pedro I Rengel.

Thank you for your self-description. It shows very clearly that and how much you are brainwashed.