No, nothing is hidden. The trick is that the crappy music you mention has to have something to latch on to: the emotion it exploits has to exist inside you. Because some autotune goddess puts out a new single, Vivaldi isn’t hidden from you. Because someone exploits Mr R’s lack of a feeling of power, the mechanisms of authoritarianism aren’t hidden from him. Propaganda does not hide, it does two things: it gives you instant satisfaction for an emotion you do not want to acknowledge, and it gives you a means not to acknowledge it.
Again, nobody actually believes an anti-bacterial mask can ward off a cold-like virus. No amount of repetition can erase the self-evidence of the falsity. What the repetition does is address your need to feel the world is “under control,” and a way to pretend that it’s not actually about that but about stopping a virus.
It does not hide. It only proposes. If it were some highly technical detail of a very complicated thesis, then we could talk about manipulation of truth. But when it is about things that a mentally-challenged person can see without difficulty, then we are in the realm of plausible deniability.
Whether parents should have a say in the education of their children is not a question that interests a communist. A communist doesn’t care about the parent, or the child. He is interested in feeling that he is involved in a project that directs the lives of millions.
Propaganda, then, about what the government should do with its power over children, is not meant to hide the fact that the government is imposing power over people’s children. The fact is plain as day, and when someone like Mr r is confronted with it, he just throws out a personal attack and scuttles away, where before he was very happy to “discuss the issues” and “give his opinion.” He does this because it is plain as day, it is not hidden from him. What the propaganda about what the government should do with its power over children is meant to do is give him a way to avoid discussing the fact of government power over children. What they actually do with the children could not concern him less.
It doesn’t convince him to submit to authoritarianism, or hide the fact of authoritarianism from him, it gives him a means to submit to it and avoid discussing it.
The original emotion, the thrill at feeling that he is involved in a project that directs the lives of millions, has to be there. No amount of propaganda can plant it. And no amount of truth will remove it.
Of course, with young children it is possible to implant. But this is not done by means of propaganda, but by means of abuse and trauma. They have to create the feeling of powerlessness that gives way to enjoying the idea of directing the lives of millions.
But you seem to be equating or conflating interdependence with priority.
If a government is found to not serve its people at all - not even a little - it would be understood that such a government should be removed and possibly replaced by a better one - why go to the trouble of having and paying for a totally dysfunctional government?
But
If a citizen is found to not serve his government at all - not even a little - is it understood that the citizen should be removed and replaced? That is exactly what is going on in the US right now at this very moment - replacing disfavored citizens with more compliant citizens.
The new communists of America as well as the CCP totally agree with the latter and totally ignore the former.
It isn’t a question of which entity should exist - it is a question of which has the higher priority - “which has greater say in what is going on in the society - the purpose of the society as a whole and the means of obtaining it”.
Those who want to rule the world say that the purpose of society is to help them rule the world (and that is very precisely and directly what they are currently doing - not even hidden - just ask Xi Jinping - he has stated it directly). And they make no binding promises as to what they will do with the world once they control it all (merely “have faith in my virtue” promises - just look at O’Biden’s betrayal) - and that is why it goes corrupt - there is no binding to keep them honest or virtuous. A proper civil rights constitution takes care of that problem. But that means that the people are agreeing (“constitutional”) - which means they have a priority say in what the government does or doesn’t do regarding the entire society - not merely what propaganda is being fed to their children.
It’s not a false dichotomy because your highest priority is either to serve yourself or to serve someone or something else. You can’t have it both ways – language won’t allow it.
If your highest priority is to serve yourself then whatever you do you must do only because it ultimately serves you. Serving other people is thus allowed – it’s not forbidden – but only under the condition that it serves you.
Lots of people do what they do not because of their own will but because they have been manipulated into, or simply fell into the habit of, acting against their will. Few are aware of their chains, most are convinced they are doing the right thing. And if you ask the latter to tell you why they are doing what they are doing, each one of them will tell you they are doing it “for the sake of society”.
I now I see why this is confusing.
I don’t consider “the government” synonymous with society and yet you’re using them interchangeably. The government is very much there to serve society and a society ought very well support it’s government when it does that and hold it accountable when it fails to do so… or risk the sort of thing you’re worried about.
But if that’s the issue your original contention with my statement about the education system, seems out of place.
If the people are electing their representatives, being armed with sufficient knowledge and mental tools to make sound judgements seems pretty vital to being able to not only assess what best serves you and the rest of society, but also who might best represent your view. It seems to me a safeguard of having your representatives take advantage of your ignorance to enlist you into their service rather than the other way around.
So, how is that not rendering a service to the people?
I agree that a government is not the society - but isn’t it the same concern. If I reword it -
If a society is found to not serve its people at all - not even a little - it would be understood that such a society should be removed and possibly replaced by a better one - why go to the trouble of having and paying for a totally dysfunctional society?
But
If a citizen is found to not serve his society at all - not even a little - is it understood that the citizen should be removed and replaced? That is exactly what is going on in the US right now at this very moment - replacing disfavored citizens with more compliant citizens.
Is that going to change your choice? - Are you in favor of just killing off citizens who don’t serve your artificial society? That is exactly - precisely - what communist (and many socialist) societies do every time - millions are murdered or more slyly eliminated (USSR, China, Germany, Cuba—) they just try to keep it under wraps. Today they use even sneakier means to eliminate those who do not serve (most specifically whites).
But what if those running (or ruining) your society decide that they hate democracy - that is exactly the real situation at this very moment. Socialists do not favor democracy at all - they just like to feign it as a cloak for their backroom manipulations (just ask Stalin).
You are assuming (falsely) that the education system wasn’t usurped and undermined long ago. Why would mis-educated people vote for good representatives of their own interest?
If you look at the actual people being voted into critical positions in the US - you find extremely corrupt and ignorant people - who were put in office by Georg Soros and his team.
Just today they are considering giving $450,000 to every ILLEGAL, DEPORTED alien as reparations. How many taxed American citizens do you think favor that or think that it is for the good of America? Those running the US government are very intentionally doing all they can to bankrupt and destroy the USA forever - to serve the people of the USA? - Of course not.
Those are the same people who want total dictatorial say over what is taught to American children (usually very anti-US lies - such as CRT - and usually in place of any useful skills).
When it isn’t the people making those choices - it is someone else making them - and for someone else’s agenda.
Yeah, lol if those very same representatives choose what it is you are learnt (or, as you admitted earlier, get inducted into), not only that, but attribute themselves the power to force it over the heads of parents, that doesn’t pose a problem at all does it?
Not to mention that forcing you into something is already itself an attempt against freedom. If they were forcing you into being educated against tyranny, they would have to be educating you on how to prevent them from forcing… do you see the idiocy?
No I don’t think it helps. A society can be dysfunctional but it’s removal… I don’t even know what that would mean. Kill everyone? Have everyone part ways? break up into smaller societies? anarchy?
I would think a cultural or governmental reform might be called for if a society is dysfunctional. Possibly even fracturing into two or more nations, could be a cure at times… But I don’t quite understand what “removal” of a society would even be. Again this would all sound far more reasonable if you were speaking of a government or institution within a society, rather than the society itself.
I do NOT think a healthy society demands everyone participate equally. The ill or the infirm, for example, cannot do so and it would be brutal and inhumane to throw them to the wolves as it were, likewise with those who are unemployed for lack of opportunities or demand and a number of other such cases…
Otoh, on principle, if a person is not unable to contribute, but rather unwilling, it seems fair to say that they are therefore undeserving of any protections or care provided by everyone else. Reciprocity, if not only the willingness for it, is the foundation of any healthy relationship, after all… Now I only say this on principle, as in actual practice the enforcement of such a thing is rife with problems. So instead I favor punishment for things like tax evasion or other such cases, as a form of deterrent… the total neglect or excommunication of any person another flawed human would judge to fit this category, is far too grim a prospect for my taste.
My answer to your original question was in the form of a should and an ought… as the question was posed.
You’re countering with “but it’s not that, so what now?”
That does not change my answer of how I think it ought be…
All there is left to do at this stage, assuming we don’t disagree about the goal, is look at the facts and see what can practically be done to achieve that goal.
Not being American nor looking to become one, that’s a project I’d rather not get involved in. Working out solutions to the problems in my own country take priority.
But brainstorming with you about what ought be the case, that I’ll do… as those answers might apply equally across the pond, I imagine.
virginia could go either way. kentucky is the among the reddest, most republican, most reliably far right states in america. if you wore an obama tshirt there someone would beat the shit out of you.
obsrvr524: If you look at the actual people being voted into critical positions in the US - you find extremely corrupt and ignorant people - who were put in office by Georg Soros and his team.
Just today they are considering giving $450,000 to every ILLEGAL, DEPORTED alien as reparations. How many taxed American citizens do you think favor that or think that it is for the good of America? Those running the US government are very intentionally doing all they can to bankrupt and destroy the USA forever - to serve the people of the USA? - Of course not.
Those are the same people who want total dictatorial say over what is taught to American children (usually very anti-US lies - such as CRT - and usually in place of any useful skills).
When it isn’t the people making those choices - it is someone else making them - and for someone else’s agenda.
K: I long ago given up hope that you might offer us some proof or evidence for your wild
eye claims… so just go ahead and continue to make your insane,
unproven, with absolutely no evidence or facts to support these FAUX News claims…
"giving $450,000 to every ILLEGAL, DEPORTED alien as reparations.’
This is an excellent idea. As an anarchist-accelerationist, I encourage any means to increase the federal debt and hyper-inflate the economy.
We must force the revolution, comrades. Bring society to the brink of its own destruction so that the proletariat might rise to restore order and bring an end to the bourgeoisie forever…
