Steelmanning Astrology

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Steelmanning Astrology

Postby Carleas » Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:31 am

(By astrology, I mean the idea that personality traits are influenced by planetary motion. There are many forms of astrology, and I'm not talking about any particular form, rather about the more general claim. To my knowledge, no such claim has been empirically supported, but I don't assume that we would have detected it even if it were empirically demonstrable. I don't believe in astrology, and I'm not convinced that what follows is a good argument or is convincing, but it's possible mechanism by which it could happen.)

Step one is to notice that holidays are family and cultural phenomena. Indeed, holidays are cultural events; part of what defines a commonality or overlap of culture between two people is the celebration of holidays together. And holidays tend to be a family affair, so that there are probably genetic patterns in holiday celebration (the gene pool of those who celebrate Diwali is very different from the gene pool of those who celebrate Yom Kippur).

Step two: Holidays make babies. People boink after they get together and have fun. I'm not sure that that's true of all holidays, but I'd expect it to be true of many holidays. For example, there's a big spike in the US 9ish months after Christmas/New Years.

3. From 1 and 2, we can conclude that regularities in the prevalence of certain genes in the gene pool may cluster around certain times of year.

4. Now, certain behaviors and personality predispositions are likely gene-modulated (see e.g. many mild mental disabilities or divergences, like autism, ADHD, schizophrenia, etc.)

5. And many holidays are based on plantary patterns: solar patterns, i.e. time of year; and lunar patterns, e.g. certain Chinese and Jewish holidays)

Therefor, planetary motion could modulate behavioral predispositions indirectly, by causing holidays that cause sex that cause gene pool variations throughout the year.

Indeed, the fact that humans celebrate holidays may itself support this line of argument. After all, shouldn't we assume that a behavioral trait that seems to arise naturally and universally is being selected for? Celebrating holidays may confer a selection benefit on human groups that participate (c.f. assortative mating in 13 and 17 year cicadas).

We might also expect variation over time, since the role of holidays in society and reproductive sex will vary over time, as well as the genetic uniformity of the people celebrating them. That would allow for astrological patterns that were detectable when initially described by a pre-modern society, but which were no longer detectable by the time we had the tools to quantify the relationship.


I'd be interested to know what people who do believe in astrology think about this. I think it's biggest weakness is how neat it feels, and how little susceptible it is to evidence. There are also issues with possible effect sizes and noise that might make an observable effect impossible to see. But it's the kind of argument I could buy.
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Re: Steelmanning Astrology

Postby Meno_ » Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:37 pm

Carleas said:


"By astrology, I mean the idea that personality traits are influenced by planetary motion. There are many forms of astrology, and I'm not talking about any particular form, rather about the more general claim. To my knowledge, no such claim has been empirically supported, but I don't assume that we would have detected it even if it were empirically demonstrable. I don't believe in astrology, and I'm not convinced that what follows is a good argument or is convincing, but it's possible mechanism by which it could happen.)"



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


I do believe in it as being another form of manifested albeit unseen energy.

My wife and I are contradictory in most every way, and our birthdays are, astrologically complete opposites, as well: her birthrate falling on 4/8 and mine on 8/4. This fact can be viewed as far from being councidental, and has very much to do with the heavenly configuration that space-time effects on life as waived phenomenon.

I am convinced if this premise without the need to extend into the cultural effects of holidays, which, however are then become equally plausible.
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Re: Steelmanning Astrology

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed May 05, 2021 10:06 pm

Ever had your chart done, C?

Its hard to steel man something without putting it to the test.

Ironical is that precisely with those subjects people consider 'vague' or whatever, they find it natural to judge these subjects without actually touching them, experimenting with them.

They must remain unsubstantive to the observer so as for it to make sense to judge than as such.

Ive only ever had one person who claimed a reading wasn't spot on to his character in a surprising degree, and that was WWII angry and I think he was lying because I was using the chart against him in an argument. I told him he was privileged, he didn't want to know it. My bad strategically and ethically, but other than that zero 'meh's', zero contradictions, only gratitude and wonder.

It's real broseph and until you try it you will be ignorant of it. It's that simple, as it is with all method, those that tend toward science are mysteriously efficient especially.

Our skulls aren't isolated for electricity. Electricity comes in geometric patterns. It's all one big grid. Its a wonder that people dont understand this, why they dont understand their cellphones influence them very heavily too. People are very unscientific these days.

chart for Paris now.jpg
chart for Paris now.jpg (202.7 KiB) Viewed 174 times


So this is a chart, precisely for Notre Dame Paris a few minutes go

Id suggest in order to steel man this, you become capable of translating these symbols and lines into words, 'reading' a chart.

'To judge a language, learn to read it'
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The strong act as they may, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: Steelmanning Astrology

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue May 18, 2021 4:35 pm

C, do you know why it is so unattractive for people to study the subject?

Youve tried to bridge the gap, which is commendable, but have done so without giving actual subject the slightest bit of attention.

What is it that is so abhorrent about engaging a puzzling subject directly, on its own terms?

Well I get that it is scary as hell, and that the fact of astrology is itself very concerning, as it has a lot of implications on our lives.
But obviously, it doesn't change what we are. It merely clarifies it.

My suspicion is always that this clarification is what scares people. People want to remain unsxmrutinizes, un-understood. The idea of being understood my someone who never met you is scary. I do understand that.

If you give me birth date, time and place of one of your family members that I never heard of, I will be able to define that person accurately. I get that that is scary -but it is a fact. And I also gather that many so called septics actually suspect this to be a fact - as I always challenge them in this way and they almost never accept the challenge - and when they do, they come out convinced.
The strong act as they may, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: Steelmanning Astrology

Postby iambiguous » Tue May 18, 2021 5:10 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:C, do you know why it is so unattractive for people to study the subject?

Youve tried to bridge the gap, which is commendable, but have done so without giving actual subject the slightest bit of attention.

What is it that is so abhorrent about engaging a puzzling subject directly, on its own terms?

Well I get that it is scary as hell, and that the fact of astrology is itself very concerning, as it has a lot of implications on our lives.
But obviously, it doesn't change what we are. It merely clarifies it.

My suspicion is always that this clarification is what scares people. People want to remain unsxmrutinizes, un-understood. The idea of being understood my someone who never met you is scary. I do understand that.

If you give me birth date, time and place of one of your family members that I never heard of, I will be able to define that person accurately. I get that that is scary -but it is a fact. And I also gather that many so called septics actually suspect this to be a fact - as I always challenge them in this way and they almost never accept the challenge - and when they do, they come out convinced.


Don't want to be accused of "hijacking" another thread, so I took his claims above here: https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 0#p2816270
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: Steelmanning Astrology

Postby Ecmandu » Wed May 19, 2021 4:41 pm

Is there a star sign that means you transcend Star signs? Thus astrology?

I find it interesting that FC thinks the can know me by my star sign. What if FC’s star sign is that he’s retarded and I’m always smarter than him by my star sign?

It reminds me of Hitler ... who thought Nordic people were the master race. Did he ever ask the master race what he should do? They would have called him a complete douche! And told him to stop doing this crazy, evil shit.

Talk about a hypocrite.

That’s the ground FC sits on.

Hypocrite.

By the way FC, most of us are smarter than you, astrologically speaking, but like Hitler, you refuse to ask or accept what we have to say.

I’m a Sagittarius Fire Dragon (Chinese sign)... best sign there is.

Why do you refuse to listen to me?
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