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Jesus

Postby Meno_ » Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:40 pm

What does it mean "If You love Your life You will loose it, but if you hate your life. You will gain eternal life?
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Re: Jesus

Postby felix dakat » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:02 pm

Meno_ wrote:What does it mean "If You love Your life You will loose it, but if you hate your life. You will gain eternal life?


If you look at it in context, Jesus is talking about following him in the way of self-sacrificial love.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Jesus

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:10 pm

Meno_ wrote:What does it mean "If You love Your life You will loose it, but if you hate your life. You will gain eternal life?


K: it is part of the Christian war on both the body of man and, and the
spirit of man...we can only advance if we are willing to "sacrifice",
but advancement, (whatever that means) can also happen if
put our mind and heart into it....sacrifice is but one means
to challenge the body/spirit/heart....

sacrifice is but one tool we can use to overcome who we are....
other tools are available.....

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Re: Jesus

Postby felix dakat » Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:02 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:
Meno_ wrote:What does it mean "If You love Your life You will loose it, but if you hate your life. You will gain eternal life?


K: it is part of the Christian war on both the body of man and, and the
spirit of man...we can only advance if we are willing to "sacrifice",
but advancement, (whatever that means) can also happen if
put our mind and heart into it....sacrifice is but one means
to challenge the body/spirit/heart....

sacrifice is but one tool we can use to overcome who we are....
other tools are available.....

Kropotkin


How do you advance without sacrifice?
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Jesus

Postby phyllo » Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:21 pm

Meno_ wrote:What does it mean "If You love Your life You will loose it, but if you hate your life. You will gain eternal life?
Attachment holds you back.
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Re: Jesus

Postby Fanman » Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:26 pm

Meno_ wrote:What does it mean "If You love Your life You will loose it, but if you hate your life. You will gain eternal life?


A person cannot have this life and eternal life.
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Re: Jesus

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:24 pm

Fanman wrote:
Meno_ wrote:What does it mean "If You love Your life You will loose it, but if you hate your life. You will gain eternal life?

A person cannot have this life and eternal life.

Yes I think he was referring to the current means of living at that time. If a society loves the very effective satanic means of manipulating society (despite its corrupt nature) then that society is doomed.

The same principle applies in today's socialist/communist world takeover. Those who love all of the social manipulating merely lead the world into catastrophic failure. It appears to be the story of the fall of Adam all over again - tempted by the power of manipulating social division ("virtue signaling" - "The Tree of Good and Evil").

I was taught that most of Jesus' teachings were more about societies than about individuals (although applicable to both) and that is why he was regarded as the "King of kings" (referencing how to maintain an eternal kingdom or society).
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Re: Jesus

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:46 pm

Fanman wrote:
Meno_ wrote:What does it mean "If You love Your life You will loose it, but if you hate your life. You will gain eternal life?


A person cannot have this life and eternal life.

Why?
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Re: Jesus

Postby Fanman » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:10 pm

obsrvr524,

Yes I think he was referring to the current means of living at that time. If a society loves the very effective satanic means of manipulating society (despite its corrupt nature) then that society is doomed.


I agree. I think he also meant that if people chose not to participate in such societies, that they could through him/his teachings, gain eternal life.

The same principle applies in today's socialist/communist world takeover. Those who love all of the social manipulating merely lead the world into catastrophic failure. It appears to be the story of the fall of Adam all over again - tempted by the power of manipulating social division ("virtue signaling" - "The Tree of Good and Evil").

I agree. One of the issues is corruption, where those with power and authority just want to make the world into a massive conglomerate. The allure of wealth and power is intoxicating, but there is an ugly side to it. We have plundered the tree of good and evil for all it is worth.

I was taught that most of Jesus' teachings were more about societies than about individuals (although applicable to both) and that is why he was regarded as the "King of kings" (referencing how to maintain an eternal kingdom or society).


I agree. He advocated for a kingdom that was built on love and empathy.
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Re: Jesus

Postby Fanman » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:39 pm

WendyDarling,

Why?


I think he may have meant. That life is under the control of Satan. But eternal life is governed by him - the two are incompatible.

A bit out of context, but Matthew 4:8-9 (NLT) highlights this. 8 Next the devil took him to the peak of a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 “I will give it all to you,” he said, “if you will kneel down and worship me.”

A person cannot simultaneously be a part of his kingdom (eternal life) and this one. I think that is the gist.
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Re: Jesus

Postby Meno_ » Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:44 pm

Fanman wrote:WendyDarling,

Why?


I think he may have meant. That life is under the control of Satan. But eternal life is governed by him - the two are incompatible.

A bit out of context, but Matthew 4:8-9 (NLT) highlights this. 8 Next the devil took him to the peak of a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 “I will give it all to you,” he said, “if you will kneel down and worship me.”

A person cannot simultaneously be a part of his kingdom (eternal life) and this one. I think that is the gist.




Oh? Why not?
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Re: Jesus

Postby Fanman » Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:42 pm

Meno,

Oh? Why not?


What I have stated is the extent of my knowledge. If you want very specific answers, you should try asking on a religious forum.
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Re: Jesus

Postby Meno_ » Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:43 pm

Fanman wrote:Meno,

Oh? Why not?


What I have stated is the extent of my knowledge. If you want very specific answers, you should try asking on a religious forum.



Without doing that i think You'r comment may be analogous to the difference between JESUS. the Christ and Jesus the
man.
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Re: Jesus

Postby Fanman » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:28 pm

Meno,

Without doing that i think You'r comment may be analogous to the difference between JESUS. the Christ and Jesus the man.


I don’t know what you mean. You’ll have to expound. If you separate the man from Christ it becomes difficult to see how his words had any true meaning at all. They would just be the ramblings of a religious zealot.
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Re: Jesus

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:39 am

Meno_ wrote:What does it mean "If You love Your life You will loose it, but if you hate your life. You will gain eternal life?

I think it means that the writer of that book is a Roman agent.

Say we believe in God: the phrase is clearly blasphemous against God, as God gave this life. To hate it is to hate God. And that is what the New Testament constantly professes; you should hate everything God gave you.

Also the notion of Satan in the New Testament is like what a halfway retarded dad would invent to tell his children based on a true story he had once half understood. Satan in the Old Testament is an ally to God (God heeds his advice, for example, in the case of Job) and a very complex, nuanced phenomenon, a kind of gateway between Man and God.

In the New Testament he is a one dimensional "villain" who sets out all-too-obvious traps for the hero.

Disclaimer here: I think Jesus likely existed in some form (Not in Nazareth as that town didn't exist yet at that time) and that he was a magician with great healing powers he seems to have learned in the Himalayas, but that all that was published about him was the product of Roman state trying to use such fragments of the story as they could use to prop up the narrative that legitimized their power (render all unto Caesar is a dead giveaway) and burned the rest - that is to say, they burned everything that revealed actual magic.
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Re: Jesus

Postby Meno_ » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:54 pm

I would say that too. As a mystical philosopher he breaks himself free karma wise into the most uncertain state , a Leibnitz-ean insurmountable 'craziness' whwewby he is left with no ego to speak of. People who love their life are attached to it, but he who hates it are not afraid to let go of the black energy where the have not even themselves to loose. Therefore there can be no assurance of an afterlife that can identify one incarnation to the next, since no one is a constantly identified identity.

Such was necessary in a literally speaking world where identification was strictly by what was optically signaled.Going into the post Cartesian world into the one where appearances are equally fallable, and everything including thinking can be dooubted, Jesus advice is to ' die now' to reach immortality, since superconsciousness is a requisite parallel to being, as being is to existence.

It is this anathema to death which assures the immortal conscious being of Existance


If that can be achieved without a phenomenal loss of mind, then it's coasting all the way up.
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Re: Jesus

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:40 pm

Yeah but he lies.

Thats the worst part.

You can not piss on the gift of life and then expect to be given an even greater gift.
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Re: Jesus

Postby Meno_ » Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:56 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Yeah but he lies.

Thats the worst part.

You can not piss on the gift of life and then expect to be given an even greater gift.



How did He lie and what did He lie?
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