The bottom line for motivation for all creatures is hunger. It is necessary for survival. The human search for meaning in the teeth of death is hunger gone mental.
Humans have an appetite for religions and philosophies. We devour those that satisfy our existential hunger.
I believe there is no need devoid of an environmental supply.
Certainty is often a dead end; hunger surpasses it.
So–what have you found among the religions and philosophies that satisfies your natural appetite for meaning?
This will not be a thread for criticizing what anyone has found. It’s an exploration into what keeps you going.
No, there is another. The ancient light of recurrence, the ancient spark, the yearning for goodness through thousands of years of pain, which compells us to become in harmony with ourselves, the universe. It is almost godlike, sentient almost, knowing what it seeks, which is goodness, and not pain. A singularity, a cosmic chain. It is not a mere hunger, but a clawing desperation, a yearning, but with the added benefit of accumulated knowledge over the years, an intrinsic memory capacity of the conscious experience. The nobility that lives within the animal, but which mankind has lost touch with.
I have to say that, at the root of existence, you are right; it is a hunger whether for food or knowledge or love or attention, it is a hunger that turns to starvation that turns again to chaotic insanity and through the deprivation of the ‘food’, many have starved, gone insane and thus cause the pain and suffering that many go through. Personally, I don’t much care for starving, but if I have to tighten my belt a bit and go hungry just to eat better later on, I don’t mind.
The essential human questions are who?, what?, where?, when?, how? and why? These questions indicate a hunger for information. Of these, the most perplexing question is why? We stuff our words with personal meanings, yet we hunger for something more. Some answers suffice; some don’t.
duplicate
Yes, and like children, some people refuse to listen to the answers or actually pontificate about what they might mean. I think that’s what Jesus meant, though, when he said that the meek would rise, since the meek are often those that do pontificate and do work such things out privately, for being often too shy to share their ideas, hence what is meant by some when they say that they wish those with confidence would shut up some times and those who lack confidence should speak more with confidence. Life is often a mixture of asking questions and answering them and then re-evaluating them at a later date based on new information mixed with older and seeing if the answers are still pertinent as they’re known. As was said in ‘Finding Forrester’, people ask what are known as soup questions; meaning they ask questions that are of no importance to them, just to soothe trivial knowledge. It was said in the context of someone asking what flavor of soup someone else was eating, for those who did not watch the movie. Since the person wasn’t eating the soup themselves and if they were they would find out the flavor with the first taste, if they were familiar with the tastes of different soups, it becomes trivial. If they were going to eat the soup and weren’t familiar with the flavor or with soups in general, they might say, ‘this is really good, what is it?,’ or, ‘what’s in it?’ and then it might become pertinent information to give them so that they might later on recreate it for themselves.
But, in ‘Finding Forrester’, the person in question was finding this man named Forrester in the pursuit of knowledge of writing, not of soup or the creation thereof, thus proving the context of the uselessness of the information he was seeking in asking the flavor of the soup. People who ask meaningful questions aren’t always going to be appreciative of them if they’re simply asking them to ask them or to repeat a question heard from a different source. They have to be ready to learn and willing to know the value of the question to receive the full value of the information given in response; and they must be patient and pay attention to receive it properly. Life, in this way, is filled with respect and nature even moreso, to teach to those with the patience and discipline needed to learn what is there to learn.
If you fill your life with meaningless questions, or ask the meaningful ones too many times, then you fail to actually learn anything of importance for allowing so many distractions to upset your ability to learn from and love life. At a certain point, it becomes obsolete to ask the life-altering questions and it becomes a search and a quest for useful information for your present situation and thus satisfy a different hunger for life itself to be prepared for a situation and know how to handle it and you might then find yourself giving information you are well-acquainted with that people listen to because it’s delivered to them in a confident style that denotes the grasp and understanding of the things being relayed. Those who are able to temper their hunger and sate it in such manner are better off than those who eat and eat without knowledge of being without or knowledge of their own spoiledness; i.e. they aren’t aware of their own ego. And, as some have pointed out of the id and the ego and superego of the conscious and subconscious mind, some ego is healthy to life in general, but finding a happy balance in a society that isn’t balanced is very difficult (obviously). I find that being able to find happiness anywhere, even in hunger, is more of a sign of health than actually being in a good situation, in luxury so-to-speak without knowing what it’s like to have the knowledge of being able to go without.
Some people try to get this knowledge by putting their things away and pretending they don’t have them, but it doesn’t give the same experience as actually being without, since you know you’ll be able to return to those things when you choose and when you want. Not to say that everyone should go be homeless or go and get rid of all their things just to get the experience of it, but that they should definitely use their own experiences to refine themselves to at least listen and understand those who have found themselves in those situations so that they can better understand without going through those things and realize that the people themselves didn’t really want to go through those things, but accepted it at certain points as an alternative to giving up and dying, much the same as people in society have given up fighting the corruption and sin of society just to live their lives in as much peace as they can possibly find; which in itself is understandable if not actually practical and yet still finds a practical purpose in driving others to pick up arms in response to such a response.
It is hunger for freedom for which many have tightened their belts and starved. I wonder how many people would; if everything were free; would agree to work for free under the conditions that they didn’t have to work and could still take for free since there was an excess. Given a free choice in such a manner, people would find that they enjoy work and everyone would be happy enough to the point where people would want to work to help each other out. In turn, there would be enough people to where people would reasonably only have to work a couple days a week doing jobs they hate and the rest of the week and their life they could follow their own pursuits. Of course, such a thing wouldn’t be able to be mandatory or demanded of people, otherwise why would they want to do it? But to impress upon them the necessity of how important it is to our society to have those jobs where you shovel shit or dig a ditch or work at a fast food restaurant so people can enjoy a little sleaze in their diet and that it would only be a couple days a week while they find what they want to do in life and if all they want to do in life is sit on their ass and enjoy what society has to offer, that the couple days a week is not unreasonable to give in return for it.
Hunger. It does odd things to people and yet it can be understood completely; that animalistic hunger for life that is primal; and not just any life, but a life worth living. What that means to individual people differs on the person, their experiences and their personality, but I believe that at a certain point, it can be impressed upon them that some things are worth having more than others and that certain ways of living are far better than others for the sheer enjoyment that a single moment can bring when you can extricate it and see it for what it is and appreciate the distinct flavor. I find that life has been a lot like Bernie Botts Every Flavored Beans in Harry Potter and you don’t always get what you like to taste, but even that in itself has an enjoyable flavor after a while for the better appreciation of the good. Variety is the spice of life and having it set on random; to where certain things can be predicted through mankinds natural predilections to similar traits of behavior as seen throughout history and certain things will never be able to be; is better than having a ‘perfect’, ‘golden’ life where the peace is never truly appreciated for what it is. I think, therefore, that any Heaven that might exist in the afterlife is not free of the knowledge of life, but that we are free of the knowledge of Heaven while we’re here to be able to better appreciate such a thing in its entirety when we’re there and to create it on Earth if even in pale mimicry that was still better than what life is now, I think, would teach humanity enough of the hard work needed to create such things to appreciate such a thing already being created for them in such a spiritual plane where such things are easier and without pain, with life as the reminder when such spirits begin to forget to appreciate it properly. With ‘Hell’ as just a rehabilitation center for those that have been to really dark points in eternity.
But, regardless of the rambling of that last paragraph to go to such distant seeming points, hunger for knowledge of after death pervades our life and wants answers just the same. Who knows for sure what is after if they don’t believe in spirits or angels and don’t believe whatever truth might be there through infinite and varied possibilities? That question answers itself for it is the key to beating boredom through eternity: there is always something to do worth doing and even taking a much-deserved break is worth doing, especially when you consider that keeping yourself entertained is also a task and can become monotonous in the long-term. To be able to learn to enjoy things again as if it were the first time. To be able to take a better look at it and enjoy it for what it is, what it was and what you may have forgotten it could still be.
Trixie … your comment sounds like an echo of St Augustine’s well known sentence … paraphrasing …
Our hearts will be forever restless until they find rest in You.
For me the intention of the words … ‘find rest in You’ … fits comfortably with your words … " compels us to become in harmony with ourselves, the universe"
Your closing sentence … “The nobility that lives within the animal, but which mankind has lost touch with.” … may be the ‘hunger’ Ierrellus is talking about.
We are unconsciously driven by our ‘noetic’ faculty to regain the “lost touch” you refer to.
Just like Fyodor Dostoevsky said~~~~
“Pain and suffering are always inevitable for a large intelligence and a deep heart. The really great men must, I think, have great sadness on Earth.”
Seems the ‘pain’ you point to is the only ‘nourishment’ that quells this ‘hunger’.
Hunger is simple.
Eat and it will be satisfied for one cycle. Know what your food is, know where to find it, preserve and protect it, and you can keep coming back, cycle after cycle, to satisfy your hunger.
I go into the woods after sunrise. I walk softly, listen and watch. My spirit is fed.
I go into the garden after breakfast. I water, weed, mulch and hoe. My spirit is fed.
I go into the studio after lunch. I plane, chisel, rasp and sand. My spirit is fed.
I go into the kitchen to prepare supper. I peel, chop, sautee and season. My body is fed; my spirit is fed.
I go into the den after supper. I talk and joke with my partner. We play a game or watch a film. Our spirits are replete; our bodies are at peace.
We embrace; we sleep. Life is sufficient.
Know what your food is; preserve and protect it.
This is a good poem–beautifully said simply.
hunger is simple … for simple minded folk.
OTH … hunger that demands stepping beyond the mundane and the profane is intimidating … especially for those with the intellectual capacity to do so.
The hunger, need, drive, answers is not for the self. It is for the species , for the future species. We forget to look at ourselves and understand that for all our complexities we are still a simple animal driven by ununderstood or unknown instincts hidden within.
As a bee shares its pollen with the hive , we share what we know with others. It is all for continuation of the species, the betterment of the species. Consider why you visit forums and speak to others. Is it for pure ego or is that need driven by instinct to pass on knowledge to make things in the future better? Our ego tends to muddy our own water so that we cannot see what is. But, if we found ourselves merely servants to the future how would the species fare?
Hunger is physical, mental and spiritual. Unless my hungers are addressed, I can see little chance of contributing anything positive to present or future beings. Some semblance of ego is necessary for survival.
But, you do it even though you are not realizing it. When you socialize transferring information it is giving. Your hungers being filled is so that you can contribute to future generations.
Consider it all like pollen and the hive is the species. You eat food, learn, satisfy your needs and transfer what you gather to the hive. The drive to know and learn is for survival, expansion and thriving of species first, the individual second. If it is intended just for self then there would be no need for community. Breeding would be hit and run, no family.
Look to species of creatures. Insect, aquatic, land and air. We have what is in them.
You have to travel around the world to come home again. You have to navigate the rocks and shoals and maelstroms of complexity to discover simplicity.
Maybe if I grow old enough to attain wisdom, my garden will be made entirely of sand.
Kriswest … IMO … great metaphors!
My greatest hope is that the human species will evolve from unconscious participation … as you described it … to conscious participation.
From collective unconscious … to collective conscious … to collective will!
Humunculus … this morning it feels like we are on the same page … than again … maybe not 
I am on the threshold of old age and while I share your goal of “attaining wisdom” … it remains illusive and I am running out of time.
Let me paraphrase your comments … " You should adopt a ‘beginners mind’. The idea behind this notion of “beginners’ mind” is that we take all of the things we know–all of our brilliant opinions, all of our reason and logic, even our cherished beliefs–and we put all this stuff on the shelf for awhile. Beginner’s mind is simply recognizing that this wonderful intellectual thinking mind that we all have may, at certain times, block things off from our view."
IMO … the first step on the ladder to ‘wisdom’ is a complete “mind data dump” … no easy task.
Collective is against the will of the species, it would also be the demise of the species. Study nature more. The species must be individual as well as hive to evolve and survive. Collective causes extinction, no or little ability to adapt.
hive unconscious … to hive conscious … to hive will
It doesn’t matter. Wisdom is like perfection or rainbows - never attained. The quest is sufficient.
If that works for you… Me, I wouldn’t like to lose anything I’ve learned. In fact, loss of memories is one of the three dire threats of advancing age.
All I meant was: when you review the data from a varied experience, reading and travel, you begin to see pattern. And when you consolidate knowledge, the pattern turns out to be … triangles. Everything is made up of tiny triangles that build up little triangles building bigger and bi… NO!
[Stop that! Get out of my head!]
Everything turns out to be waves — and/or particles.
It turns out that life is simple and people make far too much fuss over problems they didn’t need to create in the first place.
[quote=“humunculus”]
The quest is sufficient.
[quote]
we agree on one thing
my personal grail quest … pilgrimtom.weebly.com/