Pagan morality

This is something that has come to interest me as a result of my discussions with Maia. In particular how a Pagan community [one in which the community itself consisted of those who described themselves as Pagans] confronted the reality of conflicting goods.

In fact, I don’t know if there are any actual Pagan communities. Communities that interact as, for example, the Amish do. They separate themselves from the larger culture. And this separation generally revolves around a religious or a “spiritual” path.

With the Amish, of course, there is a tradition that is called Rumspringa – ohiosamishcountry.com/articles/ … e%20church – It’s a practice whereby to whatever degree it unfolds from community-to-community adolescents are basically allowed to experiment with their lives. To try things that are not in the Amish tradition. To, in other words, allow them to determine for themselves [as much as this possible] whether they really do want to live this separate existence as a fully baptized Amish.

Only as I understand a Pagan community, there is no equivalent of the God of Abraham that, once one does choose to become a member of the community, everyone is required to adhere to a scripted life. And here the so-called “elders” in the Amish community go a long way toward determining what that means regarding almost every aspect of their communal lives.

As for any actual existing communities. If you Google it you get links like this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neopagani … ted_States

But are they actual communities as in encompassed cinematically in the Wicker Man? Or Midsommar?

This as opposed to those who go to Pagan events or Pagan festivals…but then head back home to communities where there are actually very few other Pagans. It’s in a Pagan community itself where each citizen is the embodiment of a spiritual relationship with nature but that spiritual relationship results in conflicting goods.

How is this handled “for all practical purposes”?

If anyone here is familiar with such communities, please weigh in.

First up:

ETHICS AND COMMUNITY
Principles of Moral Thought and Action
From the RELIGION LIBRARY site: Paganism

ETHICS AND COMMUNITY
Principles of Moral Thought and Action
From the RELIGION LIBRARY site: Paganism

Of course, this frame of mind as a moral precept would seem to revolve around the assumption that there is no God. Or, rather, no God in the sense that a transcending entity is said to exist who judges what we do on this side of the grave. Such that what we do choose on this side of the grave is “somehow” taken into account in making us worthy of immortality and salvation on the other side.

So, within any Pagan or Wiccan community, that, for me, would become the first order of business: establishing the “for all practical purposes” relationship between nature, the spiritual Self, and the afterlife.

Start here: learnreligions.com/pagan-vi … fe-2561443

“Many Pagans believe that there is some sort of afterlife, although that tends to take varying forms, depending on the individual belief system. Some followers of NeoWiccan paths accept the afterlife as the Summerland, which Wiccan author Scott Cunningham described as a place where the soul goes on to live forever.”

Is there an afterlife for a particular Pagan community…or for particular Pagans? And, if so, does behaving in such a way that you harm no one pass muster regarding whoever or whatever decides your fate for all the rest of eternity?

Okay, but then the part where Maia seemed to suggest that individual Pagans in sync with nature spiritually can come to opposite moral and political convictions. Some might embrace feminism, others reject it. Some might embrace experimenting sexually, others reject it. Some might embrace the conflict against Communism, others reject it. What of “balancing an emphasis on personal responsibility with an imperative for non-harm of others” given particular contexts then. Within the Pagan community itself.

Again, as noted above, for other “separatists” communities like the Amish, there is a “transcending font” – God – that acts to cohere everyone to a scripted morality. But in a Pagan community? Or in, say, a Pagan commune?

Anyone here part of a Wiccan community? Or familiar with one? Given a specific context what “for all practical purposes” encompasses a “simple and common sense” ethics?

In particular in regard to a “conflicting good” conflagration like abortion. Refrain from killing the unborn…or refrain from forcing women to give birth?

Conflicting harms.

What?
Are you, fuckin, serious?

Ha!!

Of course! Another thread to piss on!!

:obscene-moneypiss:

I was inspired by iamastupiccunt’s performance on KTA…so many years ago.

Still,it has not been determined that I will leave you back in to crap some more…and make KTS like this shithole.
Let’s hope, for your sake woman, that the universal forces will align in your favour.

From PN:

Well put. And, in many respects, I react to it in much the same manner. On the other hand, as with those on other “spiritual paths” I have met over the years, there are still going to be Pagans who are able to articulate their own spiritual relationship with nature in a way that cannot just be dismissed as something one would expect from a country bumpkin.

And given that human beings are clearly a part of nature, and how nature itself is all around us, I can understand someone feeling that they are a part of it in a way that I myself do not grasp or feel. In my own online and email exchanges with Maia, I have garnered enough respect for her intelligence to grasp that the existential chasm between the life she lived/lives and the life I lived/live is crucial in creating the communication gap between us. She is hardly some simpleton “duped” by it all.

Call it spiritual, call it something else, but it is still more apprehensible to me than the guy in the sky hawking Heaven to the flocks of sheep.

Instead, it’s the gap between morality as embodied by the individual Pagan and morality as embodied by a Pagan community that is most obscure to me.

Simpletons…there is no “pagan morality”
There is natural behaviors that have been encoded and extended as morals codes of conduct - traditions governing every aspect of human existence.
All morals are collective, imposing upon the individual behavioural rules if he wishes to belong to the group.
Morals are not fashion or trends, they represent the ideals of a group, relative to the environment, facilitating the group’s survival and propagation, growth.
Every group ideal is always challenged by natural order, determining the group’s success and with it the survival of group’s ideals.

Every ideology has ideals that cultivate a type of man; a type of thinking, judging, choosing, behaving…and appearance.
appearance reflecting group ideals - phenotypes becoming memeotypes.

No gods…no universals.

Pagans don’t have a common sacred code of ethics or convictions, you dumb fucks.
For pagans, as you imbeciles derogatorily call them - pretending you are progressive, sophisticated urbanites - had their own gods.
Each god representing a natural force.
This shaped their worship and their conduct.

morons…viruses spread in populated areas…like mental viruses, e.g., Christianity.
This is why Christianity first took hold and spread in the catacombs among desperate slaves, and then the mental virus spread all over the city, and then to other cities.
Urban environments also provide sheltering, distancing nature, protecting the individual form natural order, making him believe he is independent from nature.
something those country bumkins could not afford, since they had to contend with nature daily just to survive and fed those artificially cocooned urbanites.
Their gods were real…natural forces,. not ideological contraptions urbanites could pretend existed in their heads.

Urbanites are also susceptible to psychosomatic degeneracy.

Therefore, you pathetic simpletons, the woman iamastupidcunt is infatuated with - prone to obsessive behaviours - claims to worship mother earth, or some such earthy deity - similar to Demeter.
This shapes her attitude.
Another may worship Pan, or Aris, god of war, and this will alter his morals…
But all heathens worship some aspect of nature, focusing on one specific natural force.

Every city-state in ancient times, had their own patron god, but they also worshiped and paid homage to all the gods, just in case their own proved to be weak.

Morals are about collective survival and propagation - collective power.
The one-god of Abraham claims universal, omnipotence, tolerating no other alternative - a totalitarian, sadistic, envious god of Judaism.

Pick one:

:banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :angry-screaming: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance:

See…only this shit.

A woman.

Back to the serious shit…
Therefore, morality is necessary for cooperative strategies to develop.
I suspect if aliens came we would witness that they too practiced the same moral rules - with a few differences, not because morals are universal or god created them, but because morals refer to behaviours essential for complex survival and reproductive strategies to evolve.

Where it becomes complex, confusing cunts and nitwits, is in the addendums that are created by the organism itself to enhance these rules and promote specific kinds of ideals.
This is why I use ‘ethics’ to distinguish this intervention.

So, moral rules go across cultural, tribal, lines…from pagan realism to Abrahamic nihilism…where they conflict is in the ethical addendums, cultivating specific kinds of men, specific thinking, behaving, etc.

Are you a Pagan?

Pick one:

:angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :banana-dance: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming:

Here’'s Lorikeet trying to understand Kant…

bing.com/videos/search?q=lo … M%3DHDRSC3

From PN:

Sure, religion has always been used for political purposes. Historically, this or that One True Path will ascend, while others will descend. Especially given the reality of what Marx called “political economy”.

Nor for the most part do I. But in my view that doesn’t make this part…

“And given that human beings are clearly a part of nature, and how nature itself is all around us, I can understand someone feeling that they are a part of it in a way that I myself do not grasp or feel.”

…go away. The profound mystery embedded in the very existence of biological life “somehow” evolving out of the lifeless laws of matter going back to the Big Bang. Or before?

A “spiritual” reality in the sense that those like Einstein groped and grappled with:

[b]“The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books—-a mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects.”

“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”

“Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.”

“The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection.”

“The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science.”

“What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism.”[/b]

Mother Nature doesn’t demand that you worship her. There’s no Scripture from her demanding that you choose between Heaven or Hell. There’s no Judgment Day. There is simply the brute facticity of her laws.

And here scientists, in using the “scientific method”, posit an either/or world where someone is either able to demonstrate that what they believe “in their head” is in fact true objectively for all of us or they are not able to.

Whereas in the spiritual realm the most sophisticated of thinkers like Soren Kierkegaard and Blaise Pascal have never posited anything other than a more rather than less sophisticated existential “leap of faith”…or a “wager”.

The part I root in dasein, of course.

This going all the way back to where our Fulminating Fanatic Master connects the dots between Nature, the Big Bang and his very own definitive explanation for the existence of existence itself!

And, for the very first time, this includes not only his ontological assessment, but his teleological assessment as well!!

Be prepared to grasp not only how you exist, but why you exist!!!

And the rumor now circulating is that it’s not looking good for Jews and blacks and women and homosexuals.

There’s the ‘why’ of the feeble mind,asking for what is for him to determine.
Asking for what does not exist…which is typical of nihilists.

Like.
Who created the world?
The question itself implies an answer to an absurdity.

Pick one:

1] He’s trying to be philosophical
2] He’s trying to be clever
3] HE FAILS MISERABLY AT BEING EITHER ONE

And put some thought into this time, okay?

:-k

From PN:

See? There you go again. Asserting that God is a phantom as though this is not just something that “here and now” you believe “in your head” to be true. Whereas I recognize that when I too argue that “here and now” from my own subjective frame of mind God is a phantom, I acknowledge that there is no way that I can demonstrate this to in fact be true given both “the gap” and “Rummy’s Rules”.

And that God is one possibility for the existence of existence itself. But then for those who believe this, I suggest we take the discussion here:

That’s flat out ridiculous. Or, perhaps, we can explore in more detail what you mean by “essential”. Given particular contexts. There are Christians and Pagans who are able to articulate their beliefs in a more or a less sophisticated manner.

No, both are reflections of the gap between “infinitesimally insignificant specks of existence” that mere mortals are given the “vastness of all there is”.

And how are you really any different given the manner in which, in my view, you come off here over and again as someone who actually believes that he does fully understand the world around us.

On the other hand, Albert Einstein was a scientist himself, wasn’t he?

But, given the quotes above, a fool?

A type of spiritual or religious humanism is humanistic paganism. Any religion that adopts a human-centered ethical perspective as opposed to a deity-centered ethical perspective is referred to as religious humanism. Instead of being determined by the will of any god or gods, what is good is determined by human experience. Dragon Horoscope 2023