Ben stated:
I have been accused a number of times by you Magius, of being a despotic leader.
I have accused you of more things than that. But the real question is, was I right to? You say 'No' now, but failed to say anything before, or what you call 'biting your tongue'. I fail to see the consistency in you biting your tongue only to say that which you failed to do in the past to put more push to your argument. Ben, you and I have had a number of discussion, a few of them I clearly explained to you that I do not come out clawing and biting unless someone has clawed and bitten someone else or me. Which is to say, when we have a disagreement and you want to talk about it without rude remarks, do so and that is what I will return.
Ben stated:
You claim to want to help this community out but I honestly don't believe that acting in this way really does benefit our community and I don't believe that's why you do it.
Alright, but let's put some meat on those bones of the argument, shall we? Give me some examples, references, etc. I don't mind admitting you are right if you show me your right. Secondly, I NEVER stated that the way I act is to benefit the community. I act the way I do for my own reasons, that doesn't mean I don't mean the community well, I do.
Ben stated:
Regardless, I've bitten my tongue for this long because I am in a position I never want to abuse and I see my role here as janitor, not as 'despotic leader'. However, I think you are wrong in your accusations.
Okay, so give me some logic, rational, references, or anything from which I can see what you're talking about.
Ben stated:
To take the case in hand. If you look at the dates of the posts you will notice that this all happened in December 2001 almost 2 years ago. It would've been more appropriate for you to ask me personally what had happened rather than going on a long public diatribe about how I'm trying to take over the world and wield these forums with an iron fist.
Yes, your are correct I completely missed the dates. Furthermore, you are also correct that it would've been MUCH more appropriate for me to ask you personally instead of posting live and calling you a despotic leader. I sincerely apologize for that, and I hope that you will be able to forgive me. Lastly, I know you probably meant it just as a figure of speech, but I don't think you are trying to take over the world, nor do I think that you are running these forums with an iron fist. I simply think that you have a tendency to get out of hand once in a while; this isn't to mean that others don't as well, like myself.
Ben stated:
If anyone on this board has a legitimate complaint against me and my staff they are perfectly welcome to bring it up with us in private.
Point taken. I will so in the future when I have a complaint.
Ben stated:
I happened to know 'A Muslim' in real life hence me being more forward with him. Also in other posts (I can give references) he had plagiarised websites and I gave him a warning for that. In this post here he made a statement and then two posts down claimed he never made it. That attitude of thinking this was some sort of playground where he could plagiarised and play kiddie games with his posts was the attitude I referred to when I kicked him off.
I don't see the first statement to be relevant whatsoever. On a message board, especially as the administrator of one, you should be aware of the fact that how you treat one will be taken to be expected by others how you will treat them. The fact that he plagiarised, he got a warning for, the fact that he contradicted himself is something numerous posters have done and continue to do while still enjoying their membership here on the board. You see, it appears that you were letting your emotions get in the way. Which doesn't bother me, cause like you said you know Muslim personally, but what bothered me was how you treated Muslim publicly within the posts of this thread. You might have sent him a Private Message about why he was contradicting himself, and asking him if he was playing games or not, etc. What I'm trying to get at is, if any average person reads this thread, they will see you acting despotically (because they don't see all the story behind the story).
Ben stated:
He served his time and was later allowed back on. So there's the story for anyone who honestly cared about it. Was it despotic? You decide.
If you had sufficient evidence for believing he was playing games and really wasn't here for intellectual conversation, then yes I believe you have acted rightly.
Ben stated:
Which brings me to the point of this post. In the past Magius, when you have offended me and insulted me, and you have on many occasions whether you have meant to or not, I have not said anything because I very much value your contribution to the ILP.com community.
??? Ben, as an intellectual which I assume you and I to be, we must attempt to see things for what they are without bias. If I accuse you incorrectly of something, I expect you to explain to me how I am wrong, as you have in this thread, and I will (if proven wrong) admit guilt and apologise as I have. But for you to allow the fact that you find me a valuable contributor to interfere in you biting your tongue is wrong, what's even worse is that you would use that fact against me later (now). This shows me that you don't sincerely value my contribution and this clashes with your biting your tongue originally. I would only have more respect for you if you came in and explained yourself when accused, instead of biting your tongue.
Ben stated:
You have been here since almost the beginning and provided us all with valuable insight in your posts.
I'm not saying this is nepotistic, I am only glad that you believe the above, but as in my above response, this shouldn't be affecting what you say or don't say to me, nor should it affect how you say it to me. I am not here for special treatment, glory, or any other kind of special treatment. I am here for respect, as I assume we all do for each other, and the search for truth. But I will understand if you don't believe that, given our past.
Ben stated:
All I get from you, is accusations and insults.
That's not all you get from me. But I understand how you feel.
Ben stated:
Well, I'm tired of your unproductive and wild accusations so I would ask you now, infront of everyone.
You still have yet to show me how my accusations (other than this one) are unproductive, or that they are wild.
Ben stated:
You can either choose to stay here and contribute as you have been without your unnecessary offensive posts, or you can decide that you can't tolerate the way I run this board and go elsewhere.
?? That first sentence is a little confusing, if I have been contributing without unnecessary offensive posts then we wouldn't be having this conversation. I not only tolerate, but in many respects like the way you run this board. Like I said before, I just think you have a tendency to get out of hand.
Ben stated:
I just wanted to create a friendly environment for people to come and discuss philosophy. I believe I have done it. If it's not up to scratch for you, I'm sorry, this place just isn't for you.
I too believe you have done it. I think that this place is up to scratch for me, which is something different from whether this place is for me or not, that is yet to be seen.
In conclusion, I once again apologise for my indiscretion within this thread. I was out of line and I should have definitely consulted you (Ben) via Private Message first. From this conversation, I hope that Ben et al will be more forthcoming to my and others complaints and not let their status on ILP or how much they have contributed affect their responses, or lack thereof, to the complaints. In saying that, I am open to hearing any explanation to any accusations I have made against Ben or anyone else in the past.
What's your take?
Ben has devoted a lot of time, energy, and need I say, the money that pays for it all. We all have spent countless hours enjoying ILP at his expense, and this is how you repay him? If you really hate the way ILP is run so badly, go and start your own message board; although, I don't think any of us are asking you to leave. But I sincerely believe that you owe Ben an apology, if not a dozen roses and an 'I Love You' Hallmark card. 
Otherwise, I am asking you to leave on behalf of decency.
