Moderator: Dan~
tentative wrote:Bessy,
In my understanding, helping the neighbor is the performance of the sacrament. It is the difference of talking about being a good samaritan, and being that samaritan. Whether the act is 'good' or 'bad' is not in the act itself, but in the intent. If your husband performed the act of kindness from his heart, then he has performed a communion with his creator. If he mowed the lawn so that all the neighbors would see it, he has not. Same act, different intent.
If you assume that good is an impossible thing to achieve then I can understand the struggle and the reason for the need for church and further study. It is remarkable to me that the more I study Eastern philosophy, the more I can see that Jesus was not the only one with these thoughts. As the Son of God, you would say that he was the first to honor the Golden Rule … But as you can see.... he wasn't.
My husband asked me something as we were discussing this. He mowed the lawn of a sick woman next door yesterday. As a Jewish man, he wondered - would a Christian be more inclined to go to mass or do someone a favor? In the RC church, mass is a sacrament - so what if there was a choice? Is living it the thing or "living as" the thing? In the OP, I asked how one would be judged. I wonder if God and Jesus don't see the day to day good that you say is impossible to achieve.
OK, I was raised an Anglican, which is a bit of both, but have been protestant for years, and I would say that on judgement day (to stay with he subject) it won’t matter how many times you have missed mass.
Uccisore wrote:Technically true. However, God could punish someone for the choices they made in life that resulted in their being an atheist. For example, anybody who claims to be a philosopher, and does the sorts of things that philosophers characteristically do, would not be 'off the hook'. They could potentially be punished for intentionally choosing courses of study that lead them away from the truth of God.
So, I do agree that there are atheists (as well as people who believe plenty of other things) that are not accountable for what they believe in any moral sense- children come to mind, and perhaps people with extremely poor access to education. However, I don't believe that people are universally excused for what they believe- certainly, the people who post here bare reponsibility for what they believe, for example.
Bessy wrote:If it is all written in the Bible (as you say) why the heck are there so many standards when it comes to the entrance into eternal life? I can't get a grasp on it unless I (again) chalk it up to undying faith that will never be understood by the masses least of all little ole me...
Heavens, my head is spinning.
Bessy wrote:Dan,
I think the woman in my subway story was wearing those red shoes tho' they could have been green or blue, but you know how that telephone game gets after the 1000th person.
Is there a good word for the force in Christianity that keeps people being good when they know they don't have to be for a reward? The question will come up again and again that if a Christian knows he will be forgiven, that he may as well sin all he likes and just apologize after. I agree what you've said above, but I'm still reminded of that skeptical argument.
Anyone who looks for the easy way out and sins just for sport isn't much of a Christian, but I am not sure of this "scale" of who gets in and who doesn't. In a way this even sounds like I'm joking... it even sounds like I am being sarcastic and I'm not. I am merely tellling it like the rest of us from the outside see it...
Bob was pretty sure that intent was essential when it came to placing the lawn mowing over the church going but most Catholics I know would forgo the favor for their trek to take their weekly communion. Now it would seem like common sense to me that kindness is the Christian way and yet there are rules, you know. This sacrament of Communion is clearly an essential ideology of the Catholic church.
So, getting back to Judgement Day, does that mean that there are degrees of behavior where (say) the Baptists may allow a favor of giving an old lady a ride over missing a Bible study or a dinner made by a Presbyterian for a sick neighbor could negate the fact that she had a one night stand with a man from the subway on her commute home. I realize that putting specifics in this scenario makes it sound like I am pulling your chain - but I am trying to make my point. If I strip it down to the bare essentials it begins to allow you to understand what non-Christians see. There seems to be a double standard depending on the mood of the believer.
If it is all written in the Bible (as you say) why the heck are there so many standards when it comes to the entrance into eternal life? I can't get a grasp on it unless I (again) chalk it up to undying faith that will never be understood by the masses least of all little ole me...
Jakob wrote:détrop wrote:I will say this much.
Remember a couple days ago we were talking about worst songs and I mentioned MeatLoaf? Well the following day I heard like three MeatLoaf songs on two different stations while at work, when usually I don't hear any and only one on a rare occasion.
Aaargh, that <i>is</i> terrifying. What a vengeful god must watch over you.
Dan~ wrote:This is an old thread to resurrect.
Why?
Both are required. A Christian who thinks that behavior is not associated with eternal life needs to read the bible again.
Romans 11
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
Is there a good word for the force in Christianity that keeps people being good when they know they don't have to be for a reward? The question will come up again and again that if a Christian knows he will be forgiven, that he may as well sin all he likes and just apologize after. I agree what you've said above, but I'm still reminded of that skeptical argument.
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