Logic Is Dead

Encyclopedia of Modified Minds

For example, at page 2,345 you will find this particular block diagram or description:

Emotion box is set up to produce sense organ stimulus (mix of visual and sonar), but the array of sense information can be memorized and added to other signals so as to create a large array of new sense organ types and information relationships: the difference between each new sense organ type (of which there are now a few thousand) is far greater than the difference between what we normally feel from sound, vision and touch.

10 dimensional touch systems, 20 dimensional sound systems, etc.

But the emotion box also interacts with the pseudo-logic box (it is all false logic, nothing consistent is even needed or necessary, it is one huge make believe system of symbols, equations, and circuit designs) and creates false thought processes, 40 dimensional will power machines interacting through sentimental circuits creating imagined pasts, etc.

We will be designing philosophical machines that will dissect, through infinite recursion machines, every philosophical problem to the vanishing point. We will construct existence from its elementary particles, we will have many completely new physical universes available having completely new laws of physics executing high speed evolution creating trillions of new life forms and new civilizations that will be creating their own new civilizations. We will have many brains in a vat, in a never ending array of other brains in a vat containing other brains in a vat, universes in a vat, gods in a vat, you name it.

Oh, but you are using logic to describe the modified minds, er no, the modified minds will use other entities to describe other entities, logic will have been overcome and dissected to the vanishing point. And lies and contradictions are accepted, actually they completely thrive on lies, contradictions because being as wrong and as false as possible is a virtue. They will not only be wrong, a lie and false, they will be as wrong, a lie and as false as possible, to the very extreme, just for the fun of it, just to show their power, their infinite power.

Now, go on, tell me that logic is not dead.

hint, hint… Logic is Not Dead, it just took a vacation…

Check out:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=174931

Another scientific justification to try out as many mind designs as possible, as many information systems experiments in terms of modified minds as possible since only Information Relationships exist. So we can lie and demolish logic and invent new universes with new laws of physics. We can invent all and anything, since true and false no longer hold.

How Logic Dies

Take a universe having 3 items, A, B and C. Now the existence of A in a point of space and time ( but even independently of how the universe is made, it can have no dimensions or any other structure, not necessarily like ours with space and time) means that at that point B and C are turned off, don’t exist, are not present, you can say (not following any real logic here, just for description purposes):

A = (not B) and (not C)

If you have B in that point then

B = (not A) and (not C)

Now, in order for there to be a contradiction in that universe, you would have to have a new entity X representing a contradictory item such as being both B and C at the same point (same point in space and time):

X = (not A)

and you could have another Z representing all three items existing at the same point A, B and C.

Z = A and B and C

Now, play around with the combinations, and extrapolate to a universe with millions of particles, groupings, delimitations, parts or parts of other parts, etc. and extrapolate to the items A or B, etc. being events, entire narratives, or just items, people, civilizations, histories, planets, or just short stories, or anything imaginable, this mechanism makes it such that a contradictory universe can exist.

After all, I read on these forums that to consider anything, you must consider everything that that anything is not. So, this is how logic dies. Considering items made up of more than one distinct thing, like an item being a few holes in a sphere containing all items, when normally any item is just one hole in the sphere of all items.

But to live and have the experience of a contradictory universe, you must manipulate your mind - brain and neural circuits, they must be designed to perceive such a world.

But you say, you used logic to get to a non logical universe, and I say, who cares, you can use any tool you want to get to any result you want, there is no metaphysical necessity to follow any particular path or interactions or tools to reach any conclusion.

By the way, I just like to make things up, I like writing cool sounding blocks of text, I could care less if it is all wrong and false, that is the job of real scientists and engineers to discover, and there are many of those today anyways.

Real philosophy just likes to play, just forces anything it wants, real philosophy cannot be judged, it just is. A real philosopher has no necessity to be right, actually a real philosopher tries to be as wrong as possible.

Is that a “true” statement?

To deduce whether logic is dead, at least things must occur;

1. Define “logic”
2. Use logic to make your case.

Logic, reason and rationality are only dead to those that are illogical, unreasonable, and irrational.

I really like this.

You want some real philosophy, I am giving it to you, enjoy.

Logic is Dead:

1. Because I say so. Am I wrong ? Good, I could care less. I can’t touch or see wrong, where is wrong ? What is wrong, is it a rock, can I interact with it ? Or I care so much that I am wrong, it is killing me. Now what ? I may just keep on being wrong forever, trying to solve the same unsolvable problems forever and never solving them (man constantly does just that, solves the same problems he knows how to solve over and over again, nay, even the molecules of his cells, and the entire body, keeps on processing the chemicals and vital functions in the “correct way”, solving the same problems correctly over and over again until it can’t, just like we try to solve the same unsolvable problems over and over again and also solvable problems over and over again, a loop, an obsessive loop). Or I may assign them as solved. Maybe I like being wrong. How’s that ? Maybe we should search how wrong we can get, the limits of falsity and wrongness. Granted, much may imply pain, but then we are only a 1 transistor circuit, just navigating pain/pleasure.

2. Who says I am wrong ? Another mind, brain. Oh, I see, or is it the majority of minds and brains ? But still, the tree doesn’t say I am wrong. Nor does that electron in that corner on the wall, electron number 4566756788, yep, that one there, he doesn’t think I am wrong. Now what ? And aren’t all these minds - brains just quirks, just whims, idiosyncratic information processing machines that natural evolution programmed through a completely random - chaotic process over millions of years ? So what makes those brains - minds in any way a reference system, a fundamental reference of truth ?

3. And what if what I mean by logic and dead have some kind of meaning that no one else knows or can understand ? prove it to me. I can always say, “you don’t understand”: now what ?

Go on, tell me Logic is Not Dead, Tell me how wrong I am, I need to be wrong, I like being wrong. Now what ?

That lends to the “Philosophy Is Dead” thread.

I just hope it isn’t enlightening to anyone. If it is, then why would it not be obvious from the get go.

Criticism accepted. Actually, in most forums I always encounter mostly criticism, conflicts, very seldom does anyone have anything constructive or interesting to add to the discussions. It is as if the language itself, the mental environment is always either this or that, no linearity, the communication is always a kind of subtle conflict, we are programmed to conflict. No serialization of work, no accumulation of results.

On modifed minds, even if you don’t believe that they can be programmed and changed, just from the outset, as humans are already configured, we are an infinitely programmable machine, any kind of behavior, culture, interaction amongst humans can be programmed, just look at all past civilizations and ways of doing things. We can associate any sequence of symbols to any emotions, feelings, behaviors, to any possible transaction between people, or objects, etc. We barely scratched the surface of how we can be programmed just as we are, by just changing the language structure, the interactions, the rules of engagement, thought patterns, etc.

scienceforums.net/topic/6192 … ely-exists

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=143334

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=149917

"A contradictory item is always true no matter what because even if it is false it is true and vice versa. It is a win win situation where you can amply assign anything, you can do all you want, everything you invent is true. In others words YOU BECOME YOUR OWN BOSS.

These universes are within a larger space that does not have any requirements to respect, niether mathematical or existence or true or false or anything at all. Hence this superspace contains all possible things imaginable. But this superspace is also contained within our universe because MATTER IS INFINITE AND THIS UNIVERSE CONTAINS ALL UNIVERSES POSSIBLE AND IMPOSSIBLE WITHIN ITSELF AND ALL THE UNIVERSES THAT ARE NOT EVEN CONTAINED WITHIN ITSELF."

"This thread is proposing the infinite-infinite universe where all conceivable possibilities exist within our infinite universe. This theory completely allows any contradiction within it’s terms because that would be just another possibility (or combination) so a red planet exists and doesn’t exist at the same time. Anyways the theory is COMPLETELY CONTRADICTORY and makes no attempt as to limit the contradictions. IF every conceivable idea, concept, matter, universe, planet etc. exists then there is no need for any explanations of anything since everything is just a given combination from the infinite amount of combinations. You need to explain something if there is only one possible path within a multitude, but in the infinite-infinite universe all the paths are simultaneously present including no paths and only a few (there goes the contradicton which is acceptable). This is somewhat an aesthetical view of the universe. "

“The theory is true and demonstrated because it accepts all contradictions within it, even the fact that it is false. It is at this point that we can hardly behold the infinite-infinite universe because it is the only thing that is definitely true! Contradictory item is the only one that is true. OF course all logical discorse falls apart, and you can say nothing or everything, but it is like the zero. The “FULL SET” wherever it is.”

“I can also say that the theory is false because “I SAY SO” and therefore overide the “FULL SET”; such is the extension of this set…but the set doesn’t exits ETC. ETC…”

“This theory has been proved true. Therefore this is the ultimate grand unified theory of physics. This theory is true even if it is false because within the infinite-infinite universe all contradictions reign.”

“A contradictory item (or concept, or object ) is the only one that exists in the universe because it can deceive all logic and reasoning and as such does not depend on any reasoning to exist.”

"If contradictory item A is such that A=3 and also A=17, and A exists and A also does not exist, then A is the most sure thing to exist because it can always escape any logic regarding its existence. Its existence does not depend on any logic any rule or any constraint, not even the one of being true or false. It is hard to reason with this item because all reasoning breaks down, but this proves that it is the most sure thing possible, since nothing can contradict it, as it actually accepts and thrives on contradiction. "

"An even stranger item would be a partially contradiciting item. Say A=13 and A=17 but A not equal to 12. This would be a contradictory item that has some exceptions. A is also a tree and the moon but not the letter “W”. "

Now, go on, criticize these masterpieces…

I win. I always win, I will always win no matter what, why am I so good at winning ?

How I like to win, I always win. And all of you who believe that Logic is not Dead lose.

Oh, I lost, how I like to lose. I like it either way, win or lose, I win…

Criticism can (and should) be constructive and interesting.

That is also due to the architecture of forums. They disinspire point by point settlements toward progress and inspire irresponsible negativity toward conflict and chaos.

Eistein once said: " the important thing is to never stop questioning." Although I disagree with your version of logic which i refer to as thought process I respect your position. I believe it true I cannot prove you wrong under your system of definitions.

Unfortunately, you are going to keep getting conflict any person that thinks must hold a position or truth otherwise he wont be able to think. If you attack their belief, truth, they will respond with equal force. Every belief hold by any human being is emotionally driven, it is there for a reason, objective discusiion without moderation will always result in emotional remarks, (chaos).

People will never change their concept of truth unless it is convinient to do so, remember that and you will become a good politician.

I agree, philosophy should just be a game, be your own boss, creative game, invent anything you want. Instead it seems always confrontational, who is wrong who is right, a conflict. Philosophy can’t have any possible goal, it is a game from the outset, just playing around, who cares, it is not mathematics, or science or physics, etc. And especially not politics.

We are set up for unhappiness. We always have goals that haven’t been reached, or can never be reached, or if even reached are in some way not sufficient. And then we set up other goals, targets, a continuous array of targets, some reachable, some not, an obsessive loop. And think about them forever and the goals we couldn’t reach forever and years sometimes, etc. Of course problems are exchanged through society, navigate through society by being passed from person to person, by being forced upon you (layoff, etc.), but even aside from that, we are set up for unhappiness from the outset. Our mental - psychological configuration is always in problem solving mode, or goal reaching mode, or frustration because we can’t reach that target or goal etc. And this feeds in the constant unhappiness, anger, or conflict with others and yourself, constant confrontation, constant status challenge, fights, who wins, who loses, etc.

But this is also an example of how our mind is programmed in only one of milions of possible ways, set up for unhappiness, always goal orientated, always conflicting with people, fights, competition, capitalism, etc. But it can be programmed in so many completely different ways completely ignoring all of these reactions.

And I agree that all is just an instantaneous point like event, and information exchange, an information interaction of Mass - Energy with itself. A process of constant information exchange of energy with itself.

Be your own boss and just say all problems have been solved, metaphysically, because I said so, now I no longer can possibly have any problems. Lie to yourself, who cares. Everything is a lie anyways.

Philosophy is not a game, it is like math and science in that it is a logical and rational abstraction of reality which has very real implications. Philosophy must be valid along the lines of reason and logic in order to be a valid philosophy, thus in this manner we can discern if it is correct or not. Too many times people will pawn off Pseudo-philosophy simply because they think it’s ok to produce thoughts, reasons, and abstractions of the world because it’s just a game, or because there are no rules of Philosophy. To that you will see a difference between nonsense and enlightenment, stupidity and intelligence, the bastard son of lies and righteousness, religious magical belief and valid, logical inferences. There is practicality and a future to philosophy, if you ate engaging in valid philosophy. To the rest, it is a game, a joke, and as a result that is what will spew from their mouths.

From:

brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=22324

"Everyone creates their own reality. Usually an ignorant person finds winning relative to their ignorance, being that their vision is so limited in scope and perspective.

There is a belief that seems to be popular, in that ignorance is bliss. Being that if someone don’t know the extents of reality (whether you think of the negative or positive extents) they will be just fine with their present experience.
The only thing is, is that the nature of life is to go beyond the present experience rather than to live it over and over for eternity. So there is no such thing as bliss within the nature of stagnation and ignorance."

Life is like playing a game of chess against god, you won’t win, you can’t win. You may win some hands for some time, but in the end you will lose. Also, the worst thing about life is that it lasts too long.

Yes, if you are not ignorant you may know something more, you may be able to navigate some experiences better, but sooner or later, the random, chaotic, whim, quirk, totally independent of us nature of reality will get you, and you will lose anyways.

And we are just an instant of Mass - Energy exchanging information with itself, interacting with itself. No number of laws or patterns, new knowledge, no matter how complete, even if it occupied a library as large as the universe, and you knew all, will change even a photon of existence in general. We are an instant, and as such in the hands of nothing and no control and no power at all, even though we think we have some. We have some, but it is always local and limited in time - space, sooner or later all and any laws and patterns and models of the world we have in our mind will simply break down and vanish.

This problem reminds me of the Brain in a Vat problem or the Intelligent Design problem. There is really no solution and no way at all to get out of logic, no matter how hard you try because all of our thought, language, conceptions and all of our mental circuits are all based on distinction, separating items, rules between entities, etc. And no matter how elaborate and complex and funny, you need the basic distinction and separation and identity of entities to think or say or execute any sequence of operations on any entities.

From other threads I wrote:

“But the program could only possibly distinguish another program, it is not outside of itself, just like we, and our intelligence is not outside of itself, it is simply seeing things through its own eyes (nay, deforming them by decomposing them into the distinct categories, entities and delimitations it has already decided to decompose the world in) and pretending to be “objective””

And

“And why ? because if you are a brain in a vat, or you are dreaming, or whatever other possible situation of being buried inside hidden layers of any sort, there will never and can never be any way to find out. You can’t get out of the box you have been put in. And being that you are always inside some kind of box and reference system, the space or universe which contains the box is part of the non observable universe.”

I think this is the point: we are not outside of ourselves, we are not looking at things from an observation point where we can view logic and a non-logic, truly contradictory world, we cannot get out of logic just like the brain in a vat cannot get out of the box containing it.

Just like we can’t define or even talk about “intelligent design” since everything we see is already intelligent from the outset, by how we perceive and distinguish everything. We force things to become intelligent, even when there is no real intelligence behind them, we force them to become intelligent.

From:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=174349

"On Intelligent Design …

You want there to be god. Do you need some other Free Will that is observing you all the time and judging you ? Do you need to be constantly accompanied by this metaphysical entity ? Do you think the “design” of ourselves or the universe and its laws of physics require “an intelligence” ? What makes a totally arbitrary set of causes and effects, that practically don’t really follow any laws whatsoever (remember the three body problem has no solution, go on and figure the four, oh, but wait: the universe is made up of 10^100 bodies, or is that particles, or is that waves ?), aside from those large scale generic laws that the differential equations of most physical phenomena describe (but very, very rarely have an exact solution, just this makes the basis of some kind of “intelligent” design very shaky) intelligent ?

Get used to long complex sentences, it exercises your little minds…

Is god, by the way intelligent ? seems to me that he is a simple one transistor circuit, you do some “bad” action = sin, some good action “ok”, like all the basis of our existence, a one transistor circuit, on = pleasure, off = pain. Sure doesn’t seem to require much intelligence to me.

And who or exactly what is deciding, evaluating, assigning that very meaning of the word “intelligence” ? Oh, I see, some kind of circular reasoning, the thing that is intelligent is assigning and evaluating the intelligence of the things that it is not. Wow, really interesting. Like a software program that discovers that its own instructions are made up of lower level instructions that are themselves a program. But the program could only possibly distinguish another program, it is not outside of itself, just like we, and our intelligence is not outside of itself, it is simply seeing things through its own eyes (nay, deforming them by decomposing them into the distinct categories, entities and delimitations it has already decided to decompose the world in) and pretending to be “objective”."

From:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=174931

"This paradox has no solution, it will never and can never be solved no matter what you think, no matter how you try to think it away, and no matter how hard you try.

And why ? because if you are a brain in a vat, or you are dreaming, or whatever other possible situation of being buried inside hidden layers of any sort, there will never and can never be any way to find out. You can’t get out of the box you have been put in. And being that you are always inside some kind of box and reference system, the space or universe which contains the box is part of the non observable universe."

Of course you can convince yourself that you can contain a contradiction and you can make believe that you can reason in contradictory terms, like I do sometimes: but it is just a joke, a trick of the mind, a make believe situation. But if you are convinced enough, or if you believe it, then it is true. Who cares if it is a lie, everything is a lie.

If you lived all your life convinced of something false and never knew the truth, what would change ? Nothing, you can live with all kinds of lies, it doesn’t matter, nay, it doesn’t even matter if you discover that it is false, what counts is the experience, the fact that you were convinced, but we are never 100 % convinced of anything at all.