Money is not motivation...

You are the one attributing arbitrary definitions to words, not me son.

Lol, what the fuck is a potato?

hence my first post. The tendency to accept your own oppression indicates you’re a fucking moron.

A potato is something you put chili, cheese, chives, butter, and sour cream on followed by digestion. :laughing: :smiley:

Thanks for clearing that up. Originally I was beginning to believe it was the new colloquialism for saying something thats not true when you didnt know it was a lie :animals-chickencatch:

derp

:smiley:

No problem. I’m here with my stand up routine very often if you need me.

I like your style. :wink:

If you had used the word ‘lie’ properly, I would have agreed.

Ill finish reading this thread tonight, gotta head to my job to make some money now.

Money is simply about enslaving other people. You people here are making the issue harder than it needs to be.

The motivation about money is quite simple. I don’t understand why people here don’t want to address the real issues.

'cause it’s fun to blame everybody else, but when it comes time to fix up your own shit, thats when everybody bails like the building is on fire.

Duality, is there no difference between a mistake and a lie? I tend to agree with Gib that a lie requires the intention to mislead, so that one who is themselves misled and perpetuates their mistake is simply mistaken, they are not lying. But I can imagine a use of the word lie somewhere in between; we might say that “society lies to us,” when the abstract society is the one misleading us and the information is in the whole, but no part of society (i.e. individual) is aware that they are perpetuating a falsity.

In any case, I disagree with the proposed mistake. This is a good start at nailing down the positions:

I don’t think the fact that there are intermediates that could properly be called motivators means that money cannot be a motivator. The motivation to accomplish something is motivated by desire to please ones bosses is motivated by the desire for money (is motivated by everything that money buys).

Why not say that the work is the element in the arrangement that makes it fair that your boss should pay you? It’s an exchange of values: you give up your time and efforts in exchange for money; your boss gives up his money in exchange for the your work (the product of which is valuable to him). The paying and the working only happen because the desire for the value received motivates the exchange.

Is it at all in question that in some circumstances money is clearly a motivator? If I offer you a dollar to touch your nose, it’s clearly not like you’ve just been waiting for an excuse to touch your nose.

Finally somebody else that sees things for what they are beyond the idealistic facade. People like you and me are a dying breed.

This whole entire world seems to favor people full of self and collective delusions instead. What a sad world we live in these days.

Society lies to itself. It self deludes itself into a false sense of consciousness.

It tries to shield itself from it’s own horrors of it’s equally own creation and making.

Self delusion is the type of deception when it concerns deceiving oneself.

Look forward to your response on that.

In the old days they used brute violent force to enslave the masses into hard labor, toil, and the agony of complete utter servitude.

They did this by sword, whip, or musket. They did it by all malicious means and intents. In today’s world brutality of violence to enslave others has been traded in for the more subtle approach of overpowering others by that of the value of currency itself where slavery comes out by that of a wage where the slaves themselves are made to believe that they are free. It’s quite brilliant really or at least it was for awhile until fairly recently when all the proles started awaking to their pressing situation causing those in control of the whole process to be fearful out of their wits where they still are to this day.

Most people abhor working for others where money is used as a force of control and directing where it becomes the means of motivating people to do what they otherwise wouldn’t do on their own.

Those in power know this fairly well and so since they control the pyramid of power or consolidation controlling the very financial distribution methods themselves by influencing money they use such methods completely in order to direct the daily activities of all the masses around them.

Money is a tool of power and control. It is nothing more. Let’s not make this a complicated issue people.

And that’s exactly what the intention of this thread was meant to be. I harped on you’re “blame the lying capitalists” approach, Duality, because my intention wasn’t to point the finger at anyone for putting us into this financial arrangement (I think we’re all victims of it), but rather to force each one of us individually to reflect on our own motivations and excuses for going back to the daily grind again and again. What we do once we come to grips with this deeper self-awareness is up to each individual.

I was waiting for someone to bring this up. Yes, money in this case would be a motivator. One must “crave” the money. I didn’t mean to convey that money is never a motivator, just that sometimes other things take the place of money as the prime motivating factor in the psychological drives that push us to do what we do, but money, being the original motivator, always remains the fundamental justification that we offer ourselves (call it a “reminder” of the original reason) for why we’re doing what we do, and so long as it works as a justification (i.e. so long as it still makes sense), it will suppress any opposing resentment against the drudgery of the daily grind.

Money is a standardized bartering chip.

There is nothing more slavish about trying to acquire money in civilization, than it is to try and acquire food in the wilderness.

Wow. That statement doesn’t even deserve a response because it’s the highest kind of naivety and gullibility.

I see nobody else beyond Stoic wants to address what I have spoken about in this thread.

Intellectual cowardice at it’s best.

All of you want to sit and pretend this world is equal where slavery doesn’t exist within your contradictory liberal social philosophies.

What’s naive or gullible about what I said?

People who think they see the world more clearly than almost everyone else have never been in short supply, and the number of people who actually do has probably always been small.

As I said for lying in general, I always thought lying to oneself was always somehow intentional. There’s a difference between being self-deluded and just plain wrong, right? In order to self-delude, you need to know the thing you’re deluding yourself about, even if it’s on a not-quite-conscious level.

I would, but I like how Stoic said it, so I’ll just affirm his statement as deserving a response.

OK, I think I see what your saying, but for me the justification/motivation distinction isn’t the best way to capture it (or I still don’t understand what you’re saying :wink: ). As I understand it, you mean to point out that, once something becomes a higher-order motivator, it’s just a justification, in that the connection between the action and that motivator is somehow less accurate than the connection between an action and a first-order motivator. For example, when you are offered money to touch your nose, your decision of whether or not you do it is tied closely to cost/benefit calculation of the value you’re offered relative to the cost to you in time/energy/distress (e.g. if you have a sensitive nose) etc. On the other hand, if you accept a job touching your nose, your decision to get up in the morning to go to the job is much less closely tied to true cost/benefit of pay vs. nose-touching, even though when prompted you still point to the cost/benefit to explain your actions. Is that right?

If so, I agree. It looks a lot like status quo bias, although it’s more like an explanation for why we end up favoring the way things are: we stop analyzing our underlying assumptions about them.

Yep, this world has really become all about scraping the bottom of the cesspit.

You people miss the entire point of my posts in this thread. Human nature is what it is; I just like to ridicule other people for being douchebags and inferior to me.

Money is simply a standardized bartering chip JLW.
It is a piece of paper exchanged for goods and services.
It only becomes enslaving when a few have most of it and can lower wages/increase prices as they wish.

What do you think we have at the moment? #-o