C-N (and others), don’t derail the thread. If there’s anything else you want to talk about, please start a new one.
And everyone: keep things civil.
It could be Vollgraff is involved too:
Two scenes, maybe TSZ - relevant. Both dealing with morals.
Basically, a culture declines when the language degenerates. (this is now independent from the post) Customs and morals too. The point is that it seems that the German language didn’t degenerate until the end: thus the decadence must come from outside, not from the weakness! but luxury etc. already entered the society(it was also beloved by the northern German barbarians bordering with Rome). Nietzsche’s answer was that the Western decadence comes from Christianity, because the Christian god wants luxury - he is an old decadent man. That is why N’s Zarathustra attacks Christianity and fights for the moral renewal of Europe. But Zumpt gives a good argument (at the end of the book) by claiming that Christianity actually desires sensual pleasures and is fully in harmony with the Roman decadence, well as it’s religious expression and even the “heavenly kingdom” on Earth is to be imagined as a decadent party. Such arguments would give a stronger sound to his Antichrist.
Vollgraff: Anthropognosie, Ethnognosie, Polygnosie … I have the feeling that sentences from TSZ are already raining there!
A documentary: The Power of Nightmares – The Rise of the Politics of Fear
“Oh, why am I a decadent? Wait, I need to kill the evil, if I don’t kill the evil, I will remain a decadent!”
“Death of the people” from TSZ was probably happening from the 13th until the 15th century. Vollgraff puts 3 markers into the history of people and sets a lifetime of 800+300 for each population. The beginning of all European populations is set in the Migration Period and finds an equivalent period in ancient Greece in the conquest of Troy. The second marker are the invasions of the crusaders and its equivalent are the Persian invasions. But it is remarkable that this invasions are not going from the same directions.
And the third marker was laid at the point of appearance of the Great Men of whom the 15th century was full, and it’s equivalent in ancient Greece was Alexander. The period around the 10th century was the time where many European people have abandoned their religions and gods, which is for Zarathustra a crucial sign.
Here is an aphorism from Karl Friedrich Vollgraff which explains in my opinion a half of Thus Spoke Zarathustra. It is in German, but that could be a good filter against the flies from the market…
We can remember how many excellent people were expelled from Athens through ostracism and atimia.
Hola Holland?
Vollgraff - Oekumenische Politik.zip (4.18 KB)
Is this not Zarathustra?
“c) Die subjective Aufklärung ist, wie gesagt, die Erkenntnifs des eigenen Charakters durch den eigenen Verstand, aber der eigene Verstand ist nicht kräftig genug, seinen Nachbar den eigenen Charakter zu erkennen, wenn ihm die sittliche Kraft dabei nicht die Hindernisse negativ wegräumt, nemlich die rohen Leidenschaften verschwinden, welche den Verstand am ruhigen Denken hindern. Der See der sittlichen Kraft läfst sich vom Verstände nur dann befahren und sondiren, wenn Windstille herrscht, d. h. keine unsittlichen Leidenschaften toben.” - Vollgraff, Oekumenische Politik, §. 6. 7. Was ist Aufklärung?
“Freundschaft ist das Zusammenfliefsen zweier Willen in einen, so dafs daraus nun ein Leben zweier Wesen entsteht” - Vollgraff. Wahre Freundschaft ist also wenn man alles für das andere Wesen tut, während die wahre Liebe nur ein Wunsch nach alles-tun ist und deshalb unter der wahren Freundschaft steht. “Nicht Mangel an Liebe sondern Mangel an Freundschaft macht schlechte Ehen.” - Friedrich Nietzsche
When Nietzsche said he would give a deadly stroke to all modern people, this can be founded in the entire book of Vollgraff called Modern nations of Europe…
Selbstsucht (selfishness) which is usually a bad passion, has a noble exception/modus:
“Die Wissenschaften werden vielleicht einmal von den Frauen betrieben: die Männer sollen geistig schaffen, Staaten Gesetze Kunstwerke usw.” - Nietzsche, 1875
“Das Weib kann sehr viel lernen, über recht Vielerley sinnig reflectiren und recht gut darstellen, aber es kann nichts erfinden, das ist Sache des geistigen Mannes.” K.F. Vollgraff, Anthropognosie (1852), § 142, a
We learn only through sickness what health is.
Something about the ameircans degenerating from too quick of an apprehension they too quicly adopted. They will get over it.
So much from a 3 year study of german @ age 7-10. Nietzche probably didn't have too much appreciation for the americans.
This may be a test to my comment of "who doesen’t understand german which have been written as an irony. If that’s it , sorry to have given the wrong impression.
“Die Amerikaner zu schnell verbraucht—vielleicht nur anscheinend eine zukünftige Weltmacht.”
Americans too quickly spent - perhaps only apparently a future world power.
“Schließlich verweisen wir wegen der heutigen Nord-Amerikaner auf das was wir schon Theil II. §. 424 über sie gesagt haben. Sie scheinen schnell zu entarten”
Finally we refer, because of the present North Americans, to what we’ve already said about them […]. They appear to degenerate quickly.
Danke fur alles
Pontius pilate, otto bingwanger- Ecce homo!