Will machines completely replace all human beings?

I see. I thought by “enhanced” you just meant really intelligent humans–humans who were smart enough to manage the machines–and as technology gets more and more complicated, it will take more and more intelligent humans being to manage it–to the point where they are so intelligent, they aren’t human any more. :laughing:

But the cyborg concept makes a lot more sense.

Well, what you’ve painted there is one possible scenario, one possible direction in which technology may evolve. I can see it maybe happening–sure–but if the question is what do I think will happen, I’d have to express a bit of skepticism about that scenario (it seems too fantastical to me).

The way I’m imagining this topic–the way I read the OP–is in terms of machines taking over human jobs–you know, like factory workers having less and less work to do because bigger and better machines can do the work faster and cheaper. Picturing how human cyborgs fit into that is little difficult–although I can imagine some scenarios–for example, why not surgically implant bionic tendons into one’s limbs in order to move heavy object more easily, or to shovel dirt faster, but that seems such an erratic option compared to simply buying dumb stand-alone machines.

But of course, the labor market is not the only context in which we can talk about machines taking over human beings. We could talk about athletics. Hell, certain unscrupulous athletes already cheat by taking steroids and other performance enhancing drugs–why not integrate bionic technology into their bodies to make them run faster, jump higher, throw longer, hit harder, etc. Or what about simple lay people interested in the prospect of ESP abilities–it’s possible, in principle, to communicate telepathically if only we could figure out how to integrate microchips into the human brain, thereby converting neuro-chemical signals into digital form in the microchips and from there into radio signals traveling through the air to be picked up by a recipient microchip in someone else’s brain.

So I can see that; the question is, can such technology go so far as to completely replace humanity? Or will such a turn in our evolution be its own undoing, our own arrogant conceit deluding us into believing we know where all this is going and that we can control it, but in reality we’re just fucking ourselves up to the point of going crazy and ultimately killing ourselves? Or maybe it’s somewhere in the middle. Maybe humanity will eventually consist of those who refuse to take any part in the transformation (granting the free world continues to respect the human right to make such a choice), those who do take part in it (the cyborgs, the bionic men and women), and maybe even those who completely reconstruct themselves so that there isn’t even a trace of their prior humanity left in them (perhaps, for example, someone who chooses to upload his/her whole psyche into a machine replica of his/her body and then dispose of the organic original).

Yes. Of course. I can guarantee you.

Well said, Obe.

In case anyone didn’t detect, that was a jocular “brilliant” – as in “brilliant, we will defeat the machines by doing nothing!”

Why?

To whose morale? Man’s or machine’s?

Excuse me, Gib, but this sentence attests to a naive belief. You really believe in a revolt of this kind of humans who - at least for the most part - don’t know what’s going on with them?

So there’s no stopping this machine takeover, huh?
Knowing all this gives us no advantage or alternative course of action?
When should we give it up and bow to our machine overlords?

My computer refused to shut down last night and I felt so helpless…

You don’t know to unplug it if you don’t know that it is the source of the problem.

If those running your world were not certainly insane, there wouldn’t be a problem with machines. If they were sane, the limits of machine use would be kept sane. But they very notably are not.

But your normalcy bias will keep you believing that they are sane and that everything will be just fine… even though everything seems to be slowly getting worse and worse and worse with no end in sight.

And interestingly, but predictably, the word is that “It’s okay, technology will save us”.

When did I ever say everyone was sane? I just disagree that extinction by machine is inevitable.

Well, I agree that it isn’t 100% certain. The probability is just getting extremely high due to the blindness of it while propelling it further. If one isn’t aware of the cliff that they are running toward, the probability of running off of it is pretty high, especially if they can see it until they can’t stop. It is a fully loaded train going full speed down a hill toward a cliff with the engineer shouting “Full Steam Ahead!!

I mean, I’m just thinking, if you guys truly believe it’s hopeless for the species, then you must be pretty resigned about it.
There may be some real dangers ahead and underway, but I don’t see the point in acting certain about anything. I think there’s some surprise yet to be found in the human will to grow and survive and I intend to focus on these possibilities and let it color my outlook. Lacking certainty, I don’t see the point in the kind of pessimism I sense from others.

Ignore the warnings of the hurricane because it might not really happen at all. We can’t be certain.” = Normalcy Bias.

Normalcy Bias has been known about for centuries and used against the masses. It is now preprogrammed into social engineering computers. All of the Presidents speeches are prepared by others who use computers to choose what to say and how to say it.

I don’t think I’m ignoring anything. Nobody in this thread has given me much to go on about what exactly is to come.

They know when they’re being laid off and they know when they’re starving.

No one is as blind as those who don’t know that they are blind, while insisting that they see nothing.

You have to think your way out of blindness. The eyes cannot see what the the mind ignores.

…yes… when it is too late to do anything about it. You are proving the point.

Look at your posts, all this vaguery and doom prophesy and now accusation when you don’t even know me (or Gib).

James, instead of being so sure that you know everything about the person with whom you’re having a conversation, don’t. Otherwise the conversation won’t go very far. This is the problem with religious and political debates, too.

I am not talking about knowing “the real you”. I am talking about what you and Gib have said concerning yourselves. If you are lying, don’t blame me for misunderstanding the real inner you.

…and everything is vague to those who can’t yet see it… until it is too late to do anything anyway.

I wish you would do more clarifying and verifying instead of instilling and reinforcing…

I can only try, but it has to start somewhere. I am not here to force belief, but to display the possibility and let people choose to deal with it or try to fight it. If they fight legitimately, the clarity comes. If they merely try to hide the possibility of it, they merely argue endlessly accomplishing nothing (eg. Bigus)… remaining blind… and promoting their blindness.

And that is why it becomes inevitable.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzmmDRDwHIk[/youtube]

Until that time when it comes to replace all humans - and that’s what we are talking about - they will have forgotten the meaning of “being laid off” and what or who always or usually causes “starving”, so they also will have forgotten the meaning of “starving”.

Please ask for example the 20 years old humans in the slums of the big cities in North America abaout the meaning of “being laid off”. You will notice that the most of them don’t know what you are asking, what you are talking about. The meaning of “being laid off” will be completely forgotten when all humans will not be needed anymore. You may estimate how long it will take.

To make the humans believe that the meaning of “starving” is a different, probably the reverse one, is no difficult task. Please ask the humans in Africa about the causes and reasons for “starving”. You will notice that they don’t really know anything about the causes and reasons for “starving”, but a lot of “causes” and “reasons” they are told by their dictators and his propaganda media. So it is only only a question of time when the meaning of “starving” will be forgotten or projected on “‘evil’ other humans” (who are responsible e.g. for “global warming” etc., thus for “starving”). In other words: Humans will not really know who or what is really responsible for their starving, who or what has really caused their starving. So when they don’t really know that, against whom shall they rebel? I tell you: They will rebel against them who rebelled before them. And in addition: Have you ever seen humans who are rebelling while they are starving? :-k