Will heathendom (pagandom) bring freedom back to us?

One must aim for the balance of refining the old, while respecting it.
It is every generation’s duty to improve on the previous one, not to deface it.

It can’t be helped.

Where is this duty coming from? This is usually conceived of a requirment imposed by custom or religion/God. Why not simply see it as a good thing for an organism, person or other, to do its best, something its desire will (or won’t) drive it towards. And if it has no desire to do this but does it - or really, tries to conform to the idea of it - due to a conception of duty, how can it work? What does this conception of duty add except perhaps guilt or shame?

True, one is generally give one’s sex, though nowadays one can choose to change it at least in certain ways.

Would you mind going into details?

This duty comes from the desire to be worthy of your name. A worthy member of your tribe. To let your fame precede you. “You come from a land of great men, and you too are a great man”.
This conception of duty adds a motivation to pursue virtue which is not grounded in monotheism.

I can set myself as male in my profile, but I cannot make my words come out as though they came from a male brain. Too much clutter in here knocks

The title of this thread is illogical in its intentions and a oxymoron to boot.

Freedom is a Dualism that supports a quality that is alien to its means of definition. It arouse out of the Platonic, and especially Stoic divide of the Virtues and Vices… as a formulaic calculas for defining good and bad, health and unhealth, and the etymological foundations of hierarchical being.

By insinuating a Hegelian and then Nietzschean base to your argument of a ideal state that leads to freedom and increased complexity (no, not mentioned yet but will of been mentioned as a tangent in a few more pages) you merely affirm the model that entraps you in a definitional dualism that obstructs actual freedom… freedom of experience independent of knowing limitations of historic restrictions.

No… heathenism cannot, nor ever, bring more freedom, just spite and hope, delusions and letdown after decades of busybody work. Word games, linguistic labyrinths, and 19th century german sociological concepts cant save you from youself.

Monotheism has nothing to do with heathenism, in terms of the expression of freedom. A heathen is free, because they just is/are. The monotheist is a excuse, and vice versa the same… a monotheist is free or enslaved of their own accord.

Hence… most Cynics were religious, they sought independence, but cared not for the definition. Many were pagan, many were christian… one even became a patriarch of Constantinople… but all were free, whereas all you are slaves of your words, and inferior to your own grasp of your situation around you. You find linguistics reasons to affirm, and therefore linguistic reasons to withdrawl.

Freedom exists independent of vice and virtue. It is not always wise, and sometimes fatal, usually moronic. Rarely as beautiful as we like to paint it… a beautiful system admits to a form of rationality in design or evolution of sorts. Freedom does not… it is raw and unencumbered IMPULSE.

From a Christian Cynic.

I recommend adopting a formulaic method of debate that strives for more than linguistic muddling around. There is more to the world that the linguistic aspects of our brain. Spells are meaningless, except to a fool entranced with its seeming potential. It has none, its part of a larger cognitive network, and words only matter in how they productively help achieve results in other aspects of the mind.

To find meaning in these kinds of arguments, you have to have either a low IQ, or a very embarrassing lack of education in philosophy. No proper pagan or monotheistic philosopher would have anything to do with these Prussian Circles Arminius is having you run about in. How many more linguistic loops will you jump through to appease him. Will doing it increase your heathen tribes morality? Will you become Overmen raging in health, will to power??? Ha ha ha ha. Hegel’s History and Arius Didymus “Stoic Ethics” and you already have Arminius in a nutshell… actually, you can see BEYOND him.

History has a long shadow, you all are born, and will die in it. In terms of the Monoamine Neurobalance, infact you are defaulted to NEVER have the sense of freedom even Nietzsche desired of a young child, overcomming the camel and lion… by proclaiming one thing over another. Merely look at the Lovheim Cube for verification of this… youve managed to biologically neuter your silly selfs by separating your ethos. You gotta coordinate them together in a youthful cascade, not limit in spite, surprise, anger, fear, etc… which are coincidentally stoic vices and virtues.

Enjoy your labyrinth, your self inflicted torture, your delusions, your sense of self opposed to the sense of the other. Deride the christian.

Booo… the boogeyman.

And knock the dollar crap off. Its a function of the left dorsal lateral, the left brain also does language, shitty feelings, anger, and idolizes ideals, seeks to link ideas together… and has that pissed off angry supermodel sense of self. We get it. Try to lateralize with your right hemisphere a bit, and quite mopping around all anti-social like on philosophy forums. Money is not the god of the masses, but your CAPACITY to denouncement clearly does worship it in a vile and twisted way. Knock it off, and move on. Poverty isnt the result of lacking money, but wishing you had more. Just drop the act, your denouncement makes it painfully obvious what you really are.

Enjoy your pagan gods, and your rituals. Nevermind Arminius’ rabbithole to the Noumenon of Freedom, and that of any other, and you will be free, whether you seek or desire it, or not. Freedom isnt a ends, but a means.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unhappy_consciousness

Its all Arminius has going for him at root, minus some minor twist. Nietzsche in fairness better understood the stoics enough to parallel most of his philosophy through them via his philological contact with Stobeaus… Hegel just sorta sucked here, his timeline blows, more a psychological model than historically accurate. This thread has nothing to do with pagans, heathens, christians, arabs… just a linguistic maze by a german frustrated they lost the war in WW2, and wants everyone to walk around still legged with pointy hats hailing some great reich leader. Its rather lame. The heathens I know like metal music and Rammstein. They dont care about these silly riddles.

Actually I find this to be a difficult question to answer for two primary reasons.

On the brink of total annihilation, what constitutes “more freedom”? It would depend upon the exact timing and current situation more than anything. So it’s a bit hard to tell. And what is freedom in such a case anyway?

And there is the issue of actual present affects versus theoretical possibilities. If people are simply too insane, nothing really works and again, how do you define freedom for them?

The drive behind ALL living impetus is the Perception of Hope and Threat, PHT. Hedonism is the concern of pain and pleasure, which is PHT void of forethought. So again, given that people are basically insane, incapable of much forethought, hedonism is what is going to guide their behavior, like it or not.

What happens, and has happened on many occasions, is that in the midst of hedonism, a superior strategist plays hedonistic passions against each other such as to form a monarchy, known as Satanism. In such a world, there is constant competition and struggle for life. The system requires the constant presence of PHT on an obvious and conflicting level. There are wars, disease, and strife mixed with great wealth, health, and glory. So to what degree are people “free”? And which people?

But an even greater strategist can be born who also turns the hedonistic passions against each other, but toward a different end goal. That goal would be the instilling of “sight”, “sanity”, or “rationality” as an end product. After sanity is restored, the concerning portion of PHT isn’t the mindless part reflected by hedonism, but the mindful part wherein passions are tempered with forethought and care. That forms a monotheism and a harmony of passions is the result which definitely leads to far more freedom than Satanism could ever achieve.

It is really a question of currently realistic, but insane disharmony or the possibility of future, unrevealed sane harmony.

…not an easy question for me to answer.

Never saw such a nonsense coming from you before, Contra-Nietzsche.
A few weeks ago you made a big fuss about leaving ILP. Now it seems as if this is the only place where you can get rid of your frustration.
(I’ve seen on KTS they call you “Contra-Diction”. Good choice of words.)

Contra-Nietzsche or Contra-Diction or whoever you are, please try to read the thread and try to notice that the topic of my thread is a QUESTION.

Quitting again, Contra-Diction?

This thread is no thread for frustrated warriors!

People can merely be relatively free, as I said a number of times. Even the most powerful people are merely relatively free. However, there is a great difference between relative freedom of the most powerful people and relative freedom of the most powerless people.

All “freedom” is relative. But the question still remains, “How much of what kind of freedom and for whom?

Something just occurred to me. Paganism is actually devolved philosophy and hedonism is the lack of philosophy.

When a society is being coerced into change, hedonism is promoted as it helps hide the subtle trickery.

Why should paganism actually be “devolved philosophy”?

Yeah, at the top of philosophy, everything is understood and there is but one God and thus a monotheism. At the bottom, there are no gods, hedonism (merely pain and pleasure void of reasons or reasoning). So between the two, there is paganism wherein a little thought is proposed concerning cause and effect. Paganism (or Heathenism) proposes that one person or entity can cause “magical effects” upon others. Whatever is responsible for the magical relationship is called “a god”, so there are many “gods” or “causal agencies”.

Since the Monotheism has already arisen and now is decaying, thoughts are “devolving” into a prior state of paganism. And as it continues, will lead into pure hedonism (just before being completely whipped out).

Are you sure that “monotheism … is decaying”? And if yes: why are you sure that “monotheism … is decaying”?

Why is it that nobody seems to know what hedonism is? I have been getting ticked at the word being thrown as it is.

Hedonism and monotheism. Okay. And what is your “real statement”?

Hedonism has been existing for a long time, and when it “will lead into pur hedonism”, as you said, will that be the “black hole” as a social metaphor, the “singularity” because of the most extreme individualism?

No. That would be the opposite, “an ambient field of chaotic affectance”, soon to automatically particlize. And create the nastiest form of dictatorial rule ever imagined. One creates a dictatorial regime, by trying to annihilate it.
“What doesn’t kill it, makes it stronger.”

According to the current physicists the pre-condition of forming a “black hole” is the mass of a stellar object (mostly a star with more than 3.2 masses of our sun [cp. the so called “Oppenheimer-Volkoff-Limit”]) which later becomes this “black hole”. But what is the pre-condition according to your RM:AO?