GOD=NATURE

How do you presume to believe that belief may or may not be what is known? I know God beyond belief.
Why would an atheist feel threatened by naturalistic philosophy? Don’t they believe Nature is all there is?

ier----all some atheists attack is the fathergod…they don’t know anything else…
the reason I like my god------my god is a work in progress…my god is nature as we know it now…but tomorrow we will add on…
there is no telling what is out there…there may be something very personal…but we don’t know all about personal nature…
we don’t even accept what human nature is and can be…this nature god is a work in progress …it is a god that bridges the gap between atheist and theist…
we can argue about the science…the facts …but we can stop fighting and join forces if both sides will agree to the working hypothesis of god…

I just underwent an operation. Family and friends were praying for me. The operation was a success; and, to everyone’s astonishment, I have felt no pain. Two days later-- no pain from a large incision in my throat. Prayer works! God heals!

I am glad you came through good…what do you think of my last post…

I don’t think atheists will attack naturalism. Theists might; but I don’t. I’m a Christian naturalist and see no problem with God=Nature. I just see God as more than that.

well it is more than that… and we all may be surprised…you have bridged the gap but you still believe you are right and I am wrong…

No, I don’t see what you say as wrong. It’s just incomplete for me; maybe not for you.

hey I think it is incomplete…it is a work that is not finished…and since it is not finished…how can we know for sure…we then must say…I don’t know god

Sure, and if I say

DRAGONS = NATURE

That proves dragons exists, because nature obviously exists, right?

I’m really tired of addressing this particular argument, figure it out yourself.

you are tired of the argument because you have nothing to say…you just don’t get what I am saying or you haven’t followed this thread
I am redefining god so that the atheist-theist debate can turn into a discussion…

You don’t get my point at all. Concepts like “God” and “Dragon” are too deeply embedded in minds of most people to change their definitions now.

No matter how you try to redefine it, when you say “God” people will always think of an incredibly powerful and intelligent being that created the universe, they will NOT think of nature. You’re just bringing further confusion to the discussion.

Just like it doesn’t matter if you try to redefine the word “Dragon”, as people have already learned to think of a flying, fire-breathing reptile (or the Chinese version), NOT nature.

Stop trying to change the definitions of old words, it’s not going to happen, if you have a new concept, express it with a new word.

The LAST thing the theist-atheist debate needs is more confusion.

very good points…this will not be easy…but we must redefine a lot of things…this will clear up confusion…
people have used the word god for centuries to mean what we don’t know and try to control it…
so we do not know about the origin of the universe but we are working on it…it is a work in progress…it is part of the naturegod…
atheists need to hold on to attacking the persongod…they are not attacking what people are doing to each other…
we need to talk about secular humanism as being part of our nature …part of the naturegod…you still don’t get it…
I want to redefine the word god…I want an agnostic god plus nature…we already know some about nature…
people want to hold on to the persongod as the authority…I don’t like this…it is their heroin…it is not easy to give up an opiate…

Our minds gravitate from the known into the unknown. It is this unknown that appears to be the problem here. Anyone can guess what the unknown entails. Science offers possibilities. Are you saying religion does not?

religion does…but religion means a lot of different ideas…some are hateful…some create false hopes in people…
I see a lot of my fellow church people worshipping and praying to god but they totally forget the golden rule…
they focus on control of god to get good and avoid bad…they think they can do it without doing the ground work…
I just don’t like those people that think they are superior beings because they believe in god…
homosexual problems in the church are causing serious problems for people…is having sex with someone of the same sex a sin…
what kind of a sin…how serious…maybe you would not get into heaven…or maybe hell is the place for you…

I lost a daughter over the argument about homosexuality. She said it was sin. I said it was a genetic fluke. I accused her of homophobia. She chose to delete me from her life. So, yes, I understand religious arrogance and also dislike it.

I just saw a video on twitter by kristy tv… interview with a gay man with a strong religious family…very moving

I agree with that, but what you want to do seems like trying to “cheat” them out of believing in God by just redefining the word. As I said, I don’t think it’s the best way to do it.

IMO this world needs more honesty and a direct approach to such issues, not a new definition of an already abstract concept.

you may be right…I agree that we need honesty and integrity and kindness…I am not attacking those persons believing in a persongod…
they can do what they want …I am proposing that we pay attention to nature as the way to go…we need to pay more attention to the golden rule…
actually I am for secular humanism in a church setting without the persongod…I want reformation of the church…not doing away with it…

I agree with that completely, but let’s just call it nature then.

It seems to me like you want a church without everything that makes church a church. Aka, that you want something else that is in fact not a church.

that’s the problem atheris…we keep thinking of church in a certain way…but the present church has been adulterated…it needs reform…
the early followers of jesus didn’t have a church…and I see jesus as a human not as a god…the church is praying and worshipping but nothing is changed…in fact things are worse…so what to do…well maybe we have to get together and solve some of the problems ourselves…