…which has to do with what? I thought we were talking about consciousness, not “life”.
The issue is that you haven’t merely implied, but out and out stated that an artificial machine cannot show any level of consciousness. The truth is that they have been showing it since the 70’s.
There you go again, just assuming something without the slightest evidence to support your claim, just God given facts.
AI hasn’t been proven??? Emmm…
So you must be trying to say that machines have not yet been proven to be conscious?
If you bother to properly define consciousness, you will find that machines have been conscious for decades. My career was making them so during the 70-80’s. It is up to you to prove that they can’t be. Just stating it over and over isn’t getting anywhere.
Still, you seem to be making claims merely from your intuition, your faith/religion concerning the idea that mechanisms cannot be as wonderfully mystical, magical, and mentally powerful as “real” living creatures.
Why do you have such faith in the magic of organic mechanisms over inorganic mechanisms? What is your actual reasoning? We can all see what you want to be true. But what is your reason for believing it?
I know you are somewhat of a fringe scientist, or one who dabbles in science, hence your rejection of the legitimacy of a world-renowned scientist: Neil Degrasse Tyson, but now you are claiming that there are already machines that are conscious…
James, can these machines become depressed? Can these machines ever feel proud of themselves? Can SIRI ever become enraged, when the Miami dolphins lose?
I’d like to see some links to credible sources for these supposed conscious machines you mention. And do these machines have brains? If not, then the theory that subjectivity emerges from brains alone is refuted, which in-turn makes my speculation about J-fish having primal subjectivity even more plausible.
In the 80’s, I saw how to give an AI self-forming and evolving emotions identical to human emotions, because they were to arise for the same reasons. I decided pretty quickly that it was a seriously bad idea to pursue. Why would you want to create a temperamental intelligent life form superior to yourself?
The problem with explaining any of it to you is that you don’t have definitions for these things (emotions, intelligence, consciousness) and even if you did, the current effort is to get the populous to love and want for more androids, not fear them. So you aren’t going to find anyone in the industry saying that they have already done anything that might be scary to you. They are still on the “love your android” film campaign in Hollywood (even producing sex surrogates), while the Japanese just out and out tell their people that they are making the androids as lovable as possible so that they can work side by side with people. There are countless youtube videos on it.
They aren’t going to tell you that you have been replaced until you have been replaced. And maybe not even then. But until then, you are to believe that machines could never be as worthy as you.
There is absolutely nothing that a human can do that a machine cannot be designed to do better - much, much better. But it has to be sold to the public. So like all social movements, the ones being promoted have to be seen as the poor, helpless, abused underdog until there is no escape.
Your faith in human, conscious superiority is pure superstition and wishful thinking.
I’m not going to search out links for you. Youtube is filled with AI and android videos.
As I said, you don’t have any of those things that you are making claims about well defined, and thus you believe whatever you choose.
But you are the one making a claim that consciousness cannot be artificially created. Where are your links to impress me with your stance? We are in a field wherein such links are not going to help either case much. Without defined concepts, anything is too easy to simply deny to your own favor.
Exactly what is your reason for believing that consciousness cannot be artificially created?
Consciousness is the active process of remote recognition. An AI builds an internal memory model of the space around it, just as all conscious creatures do in order to navigate. The process of updating and utilizing that internal map is of what consciousness is made. When that map is not utilized, the entity is unconscious even though it might still respond to direct touching. To be called, “conscious”, it must be able to locate objects of interest at a distance. I had a thread on this subject years ago, but it got lost in the forum shuffle a while back.
Of course there is also “self-conscious” wherein the entity must distinguish itself from other entities, but that’s old hat these days.
There is also being “emotionally conscious”, wherein the entity must be able to sense internal decision making struggles due to conflict of interest issues. And that is what leads to high cognitive functioning, linear logic models being created and used by the entity so as to resolve the emotive dissonance (priority conflicts).
“ According to Pert, our bodies are in fact our subconscious minds: In the end I find I can’t separate brain from body. Consciousness isn’t just in the head. Nor is it a question of the power of the mind over the body…because they’re flip sides of the same thing. Mind doesn’t dominate body, it becomes body.”
I’ve been more or less lol reading a book about Healing through Meditation or something of that sort and i came across interesting thoughts about consciousness and how it actually permeates not just our brains/minds but also our bodies - that we do in a sense have consciousness, real consciousness, as awareness, as signals I guess one might say, which runs thrugh every part of us, but we don’t know it. It’s really such a fascinating read. How little we know about the human brain, consciousness, the mind body connection and how everything is influenced by everything else within us.
We really are fascinating creatures, us humans, I think.
No, the indication is that I am not going to convince you of anything that you don’t want to believe. If you don’t want to believe in the truth, the truth is not what you will accept. And if you do want to believe in the truth, you will go to the trouble to find it. The links aren’t that hard to find on that threat, the videos stand out. To me, it is just too old of a story. And if you can’t Google, “androids youtube”, then obviously you aren’t interested.
Unambiguously define what you mean by “self-consciousness”, and I can probably point to an example within your reach.
So, my computer is sentient? Just as sentient, as I am? More so?
Why doesn’t it communicate with me more often? You know, a good ol’ " Hey, Erik - how was work today? " would be nice…I guess my computer is anti-social…perhaps time for a new PC? A more amiable one? Sounds dandy!
Well, I asked for a definition and got one. Should I have asked for a definition of human consciousness? Your definition works for vacuuming robots but it’s far from how consciousness is generally understood.
Remote recognition (observation) and memory updates belong to consciousness, as well as what you call “emotial consciousness”, but they don’t define it. As David Chalmers says, they are easy problems. What about experience, The Hard Problem of Consciousness?
