Will machines completely replace all human beings?

States will probably also disappear.

Everything for free distributed to everybody equally, right? Laughs :laughing:

States won’t dissapear. They’ll just evolve into the global super state instead citizen!

Global big brother has come to bring utopia, salvation, and heaven to everybody all across the planet… :sunglasses:

Not distributed so much as most people will have the technology at home or in local facilities, and so can produce things at cost of materials used [until machines can produce those too]. If say 70% of the world in e.g. 2050, has such tech then what problem is there to stop them being charitable? cost of product will be so low and widespread, eventually everyone will have the tech or access to it.

envision such a machine which can build another of the same machines, it’s like germ-birth and eventually widespread.

States as we know them will probably disappear, because they are too expensive and can be easily replaced by a machine network that works much more efficiently than a human state. This is already in works. Feel free to call this machine newtork “state”, but keep in mind that this machine newtork will be much more than a human state.

Neat. We’ll call it the tyrannical automated machine network state or TAMNS for short.

… and then reappear in different form.

No reforming, just a global irradiated desert wasteland instead.

You mean as SAM?

The machines have to live somewhere.

Well at at least and certainly eventually. But throughout history when countries fall, countries reform. It is due to the very imprecise concentration of former cultures. The new age World Odor intends to disperse the population so much and for so long that they cannot even recognize, much less concentrate, any tiny remnants of their past.

SAM reforms nations as what you might think of as “organs of the body of Man (or Machine, or whatever)”. But does it quite naturally without intent. When very many SAM Coops are connected, they naturally specialize in whatever works in that area and thus other needs get specialized in other areas by other massive groups of SAM Coops. Each of those masses is like a nation with different standards than other nations. And of course, there are those who form the trade routes between, the “blood system”.

The challenge is to keep the brain from becoming as stupid as homosapian did in thinking that it is the only actual importance and that the entire rest of the population is irrelevant.

Socialists/Communists already see it all this way. But they are merely viewing through colored glasses.

The Animatrix. :wink:

SAM does that without intent?

Sorry, I missed seeing that post.

SAM is people paying close attention to actual needs, including taking joy in dealing with them (the “water to wine” trick). And as such, the concern for designing what all of Man "should " look like becomes pretty irrelevant. People get involved in their immediate concerns far more. And from that grows a gathering of a great many people who are attending to the immediate situation with little regard to what it might look like from far above. Man becomes much less of a self-conscious being attempting to try to design himself into godhood while remaining blind to his truest needs.

With SAM, people do things because they need to do them, not because of higher pipe dreams of becoming a “super race” or “the ideal society” or anything other than just dealing with what needs doing. An immature man cannot design a mature man. But he can become one merely by listening much closer and inspiring himself to enjoy his journey through reality.

“Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony”

From that, Man becomes as mature and responsible as any physical being can.

That is true but in the case of compass, which is designed to point at the poles by default. It inherits that particular intent.

Then, how can you say that Sam can achive goodness without any such predefined and preinstalled intent?

And, if there is any such default system in the Sam, you cannot call it natural, but designed or imposed.

I am not saying that it is a bad thing, but the question is whether it would be natural or designed and imposed!

With love,
Sanjay

I think that you are misunderstanding. SAM, “Social Anentropic Molecularisation”, is a small group of people who work together with a particular focus. Everything that they do is toward that one aim. That aim is entirely about the needs of anentropy for that one group. It has nothing at all to do with what Mankind as a whole “should be” doing or how it should be assembled or governed.

Mankind ends up being the group of the very many smaller SAM groups (families or coops). The design of that higher order Mankind is not what any smaller group focuses on or attempts design or achieve. There is no one saying, “all the people in the East shall be manufactures and all of those in the North shall be thinkers, and all those…”. Instead, each and every group merely takes care of its own through a specific means that causes the group to behave as wisely as they can determine at the time and automatically learn from their errors. Every SAM coop is independently managed and autonomously directed, although still communicating with very many others.

So when I said:

What I meant was that what you now call a “nation” ends up being more like an organ of a larger body of Mankind. But it isn’t assigned to be any particular organ. Instead it merely ends up being one because every SAM coop within that region is focused on doing what they can do in the wisest way they can determine without regard to any higher scheme of Mankind’s global design. Thus they are not dissonant nor distracted by imagined fantasy grand ideological designs.

It is exactly analogous to the cells of your body that never think in terms of what they should do for sake of the U.N.'s directives and mandates. Your cells merely do what they have to in order to keep alive. By them continuing to ignore the U.N., they keep the your body alive. SAM coops are far more intelligent than those cells, but they still attend to their own business above all else, lest the body of Mankind become dissonant, distracted by delusional fantasies, and fall into eternal contentious misery for all people concerned.

SAM understands the phrase, “Mind you own business … very, very carefully and diligently.” But because of the sentient design of each SAM coop, neighbors inherently take care of each other without having to be ordered to do so. They learn of their mistakes and those of others without having to be schooled or scolded. SAM doesn’t have need for morals such as “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” SAM merely constantly and consistently attempts to discern what is wise, learns from mistakes, and produces what such efforts produce.

Engineers tend to look at the end goal design of a system and then work backwards to discern how to make each less part of the system. SAM function in the opposite manner. Each SAM focuses on how to be as perfect as it can be considering its own situation at the time and lets the end higher system design become whatever it becomes as a consequence rather than as a goal. SAM does not presume to know what higher system design is wisest and lets nature or the natural situation at the time determine that.

But why can you be so sure that SAM can be put into practice without any problems? Are you implying that the engineers are machines?

I can understand that and it is good concept too, but there is a problem.

You said that each and every SAM coop will mind it’s own business like cells and organs do in a body. But, a body does not follow this premise of minding own business by individual cells and organs.

Of course, it is true that different organs take different responsibilities, but they do not do that entirely willingly. All is controlled by CNS. The brain tells the heart that by which rate it has to pump in any particular circumstances. The Heart itself has no idea about it.

The organs and cells of the body would fail without a central govning system. Given that, how do you propose an alternate for that overall governing system, what brain does in the body and put all organs at the path of pursuing a common goal?

With love,
Sanjay

The engineering system and the social engineers of SAM are analogous to the central nervous system and the heart of a living body.

What James calls “SAM coop” is a cybernetic feedback control system.

Oh but they do.

Actually the reverse is more true. And this is the typical error of social tyrants and idealists - thinking that the brain (the elites) commands everything else in the body.

The brain merely passes status messages around. The organs respond somewhat blindly to both those messages and their immediate physiological surroundings. In society, this is analogous to a farmer listening to the city’s weather report. The farmer accepts the information from the report and behaves differently than he would have otherwise. The brain merely let’s the heart in on anything unusual.

The brain does not tell the heart what to do or how to do it. The brain has no idea what the heart actually does. The unfortunate and evil condition of Mankind is that the city weather reporters DO know what affect they are causing and construct their reports accordingly rather than merely honestly and consistently report the weather.

In the SAM greater body, coops are not merely manipulating each other. That is the single greatest difference in a SAM structure versus anything Man has ever done before. SAM defeats deception and thus manipulation.

No. They continue doing what they always do. But because they are specialized and dependent upon the services of others for supplies, if any one organ fails, the other organs become stressed. The lack of balanced behavior can then cause failure of critical organs, so soon the entire body might die.

There was no “central governing system”. The brain is merely a signal relay system. It is not governing, but rather inadvertently coordinating. Remove that coordination system and the organs again become stressed, uncoordinated and fail. The attempt to govern the body is the failure of the Ego, bringing eventual and certain death.

That is the Socialist/Communist Godwannabe fantasy of ultimate authority and control of all life “for its own sake”.

SAM does not have social engineers for the higher body and within each coop, all participate in such social engineering of their own coop.

The SAM Coops become coordinated by means of four basic types of communication;
1) Philosophy Network - (aka “Angel Network”) an Internet type of widespread database of all strategies and philosophical methods known to Mankind.

2) Neighbor Network - an LAN type of network that extends no further than secondary neighbors.

3) Trade Network - an Internet type of network for trade communication and coordination.

4) Local/Private Network - a Coop-internal LAN for local private communication and coordination.

Network Clusters.png

Of course this picture is merely a diagram of a network distribution from one SAM Coop and not the physical locations of the people involved. Information is divided into categories so as to provide the fastest and most efficient communication possible while maintaining security.

Note that Local, “Private/family”, business is not on the same network as neighbor, trade, or international communication.

Commands are actually never being given on any level throughout the entire system. Everything is based upon reported and verified status meshed with awareness of philosophical strategies for handling whatever situation arises. Every SAM Coop is merely doing what makes the most sense considering what it can see and understand (just like the cells in your body).

There is no government commanding anyone.

James,

Do not stress too much on the term " governing ". I may have used " coordinator ", but at the end of the day, there will be mot much difference between the two on the ground working.

By saying that the brain is governing the body, I do not mean that the rest of the body is slave to it. It merely means that it is only brain that has the capacity to collect all information and give feedbacks accordingly to the rest; synchronising.

In your proposed system, you said that all will be connected by “angelic network”, which will keep all informed about everything, and thus, every SAM will perform accordingly by default. But, when you lay down the premise of " mind your own business " at the same time, it becomes contradictory and confusing. Both premises cannot go hand in hand forever. Many such situations may arise when what is good for a particular SAM, may not be good for the system, as a whole. And, if that happens, who will take the final call, Angelic network or that particular SAM?

Borrowing your anology of farmers and s city, say that there is a SAM of farmers, who owns land and grow necessary food for the city(another SAM), and the city is dependant on farmers for its food. But, farmers found a gold mine in their land. Now, what should farmers do? Should they mind their own business by stop growing food and dig costly gold, or continue growing food because the adjoining city needs that?

How your proposed Angelic network will solve this issue?

Secondly, how do you propose the structure of Angelic network? Would it be just one more SAM like others, or merely a virtual entity like we think of spirit or consciousness for humans?

With love,
Sanjay