Will machines completely replace all human beings?

[Lev Muishkin]

It's already happened in anime therefore it can happen in reality.

Is that an argument?

With love,
Sanjay

Do you not think it might be irony?

[zinnat]

It's already happened in anime therefore it can happen in reality.

Is that an argument?

With love,
Sanjay

Do you not think it might be irony?

I do not know. That is why i asked about his intention behind such statement in the middle of some serious discussion.

with love,
sanjay

[Arminius]

Zinnat, I hope I may remind you of what you wrote exactly 30 days ago:

I am willing to write a long post regarding what we left unfinished in Machine thread. I will post that in a day or two.

30 days are gone, but unfortunately your promised post has not arrived here.

[zinnat]

Zinnat, I hope I may remind you of what you wrote exactly 30 days ago:

I am willing to write a long post regarding what we left unfinished in Machine thread. I will post that in a day or two.

30 days are gone, but unfortunately your promised post has not arrived here.

As I told my reasons, you have to wait for some more days.

With love,
Sanjay

[Arminius]

Okay, Zinnat / Sanjay.

[LaughingMan]

(1500's)

Worker: That windmill is going to replace our hard earned labor on the farm.

Administrative Class: Nonsense you conspiracy theorist kook.

Get back to work slave!

(1800's)

Luddite worker: That textile automated factory is going to replace us and our hard earned labor over generations.

Administrative Class: Nonsense you conspiracy theorist kook.

Get back to work slave!

(1900's)

Worker: That machine has replaced my job entirely forcing me down to the lower wage assembly line.

Administrative Class: Nonsense you conspiracy kook.

Get back to work slave!

(2000's)

Worker: A computer has replaced my job entirely making me obsolete and existentially redundant. I feel useless, I've been even called a useless eater.

My wife is currently selling blowjobs on the street corner for nickels. I am sleeping under a bridge with a drug addict named Harry who is shooting up heroin numbing himself with the misery of life while I am down to my last two cans of tomato soup and green beans from a local community foodshelf.

I've tried applying to the local Chicken Wing for $1.50 a hour but my application was denied in that the jobs are starting to become automated with computers and robots.

I've applied for public housing and EBT where I've been denied on both.

I have a razor and I am about to cut my wrists.

The 24/7 1-800 suicide prevention line isn't picking up........

Administrative Class: Fuck you slave!


(2100's)

????

[Orbie]

Megaphone: The next ship to Mars leaving on platform 5, in 15 minutes. All passengers please go there immediately. Women and children first.
















Megaphone: Worker permits and passports please , to be
presented to the adminsitration immediately for processing, leave left arm bare for microchip

inspection.

[Amorphos]

LaughingMan

(2000's)
Worker: A computer has replaced my job entirely making me obsolete and existentially redundant. I feel useless, I've been even called a useless eater.

Most jobs are shit though, and it is entirely possible that the state wont let a majority of it’s people become down trodden like that. I know it does atm but that’s because we are a minority. Eventually everything will be produced by machines, there will be no need for want, and it is in the govt’s favour to ensure thats the case - for the majority at least.
Problem for the global agenda is that machines that can print anything will also replace money eventually. Without money and with adequate global production, then need will become irrelevant.

orbie

if above, then economic depravation wont be driving extremism, so will identity really be such an issue? ..longer term that is.

_

[Arminius]

States will probably also disappear.

[LaughingMan]

LaughingMan

(2000's)
Worker: A computer has replaced my job entirely making me obsolete and existentially redundant. I feel useless, I've been even called a useless eater.

Most jobs are shit though, and it is entirely possible that the state wont let a majority of it’s people become down trodden like that. I know it does atm but that’s because we are a minority. Eventually everything will be produced by machines, there will be no need for want, and it is in the govt’s favour to ensure thats the case - for the majority at least.
Problem for the global agenda is that machines that can print anything will also replace money eventually. Without money and with adequate global production, then need will become irrelevant.

orbie

if above, then economic depravation wont be driving extremism, so will identity really be such an issue? ..longer term that is.

_

Everything for free distributed to everybody equally, right? *Laughs*

[LaughingMan]

States will probably also disappear.

States won't dissapear. They'll just evolve into the global super state instead citizen!

Global big brother has come to bring utopia, salvation, and heaven to everybody all across the planet.........

[Amorphos]

Everything for free distributed to everybody equally, right? *Laughs*

Not distributed so much as most people will have the technology at home or in local facilities, and so can produce things at cost of materials used [until machines can produce those too]. If say 70% of the world in e.g. 2050, has such tech then what problem is there to stop them being charitable? cost of product will be so low and widespread, eventually everyone will have the tech or access to it.

envision such a machine which can build another of the same machines, it's like germ-birth and eventually widespread.

[Arminius]

States will probably also disappear.

States won't dissapear. They'll just evolve into the global super state instead citizen!

Global big brother has come to bring utopia, salvation, and heaven to everybody all across the planet.........

States as we know them will probably disappear, because they are too expensive and can be easily replaced by a machine network that works much more efficiently than a human state. This is already in works. Feel free to call this machine newtork "state", but keep in mind that this machine newtork will be much more than a human state.

[LaughingMan]

States will probably also disappear.

States won't dissapear. They'll just evolve into the global super state instead citizen!

Global big brother has come to bring utopia, salvation, and heaven to everybody all across the planet.........

States as we know them will probably disappear, because they are too expensive and can be easily replaced by a machine network that works much more efficiently than a human state. This is already in works. Feel free to call this machine newtork "state", but keep in mind that this machine newtork will be much more than a human state.

Neat. We'll call it the tyrannical automated machine network state or TAMNS for short.

[James S Saint]

States will probably also disappear.

.. and then reappear in different form.

[LaughingMan]

States will probably also disappear.

.. and then reappear in different form.

No reforming, just a global irradiated desert wasteland instead.

[Arminius]

States will probably also disappear.

.. and then reappear in different form.

You mean as SAM?

[James S Saint]

No reforming, just a global irradiated desert wasteland instead.

The machines have to live somewhere.

You mean as SAM?

Well at at least and certainly eventually. But throughout history when countries fall, countries reform. It is due to the very imprecise concentration of former cultures. The new age World Odor intends to disperse the population so much and for so long that they cannot even recognize, much less concentrate, any tiny remnants of their past.

SAM reforms nations as what you might think of as "organs of the body of Man (or Machine, or whatever)". But does it quite naturally without intent. When very many SAM Coops are connected, they naturally specialize in whatever works in that area and thus other needs get specialized in other areas by other massive groups of SAM Coops. Each of those masses is like a nation with different standards than other nations. And of course, there are those who form the trade routes between, the "blood system".

The challenge is to keep the brain from becoming as stupid as homosapian did in thinking that it is the only actual importance and that the entire rest of the population is irrelevant.

Socialists/Communists already see it all this way. But they are merely viewing through colored glasses.

[LaughingMan]

The Animatrix.

[Arminius]

SAM reforms nations as what you might think of as "organs of the body of Man (or Machine, or whatever)". But does it quite naturally without intent.

SAM does that without intent?

[James S Saint]

SAM reforms nations as what you might think of as "organs of the body of Man (or Machine, or whatever)". But does it quite naturally without intent.

SAM does that without intent?

Sorry, I missed seeing that post.

SAM is people paying close attention to actual needs, including taking joy in dealing with them (the "water to wine" trick). And as such, the concern for designing what all of Man "should " look like becomes pretty irrelevant. People get involved in their immediate concerns far more. And from that grows a gathering of a great many people who are attending to the immediate situation with little regard to what it might look like from far above. Man becomes much less of a self-conscious being attempting to try to design himself into godhood while remaining blind to his truest needs.

With SAM, people do things because they need to do them, not because of higher pipe dreams of becoming a "super race" or "the ideal society" or anything other than just dealing with what needs doing. An immature man cannot design a mature man. But he can become one merely by listening much closer and inspiring himself to enjoy his journey through reality.

"Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony"

From that, Man becomes as mature and responsible as any physical being can.

You can't tell a compass where magnetic North is supposed to be. You have to altruistically build the compass (do the exercises) and let the compass THEN tell You where North really is despite whatever you had previously imagined

[zinnat]

You can't tell a compass where magnetic North is supposed to be. You have to altruistically build the compass (do the exercises) and let the compass THEN tell You where North really is despite whatever you had previously imagined

That is true but in the case of compass, which is designed to point at the poles by default. It inherits that particular intent.

Then, how can you say that Sam can achive goodness without any such predefined and preinstalled intent?

And, if there is any such default system in the Sam, you cannot call it natural, but designed or imposed.

I am not saying that it is a bad thing, but the question is whether it would be natural or designed and imposed!

With love,
Sanjay

[James S Saint]

Then, how can you say that Sam SAM can achieve goodness without any such predefined and preinstalled intent?

I think that you are misunderstanding. SAM, "Social Anentropic Molecularisation", is a small group of people who work together with a particular focus. Everything that they do is toward that one aim. That aim is entirely about the needs of anentropy for that one group. It has nothing at all to do with what Mankind as a whole "should be" doing or how it should be assembled or governed.

Mankind ends up being the group of the very many smaller SAM groups (families or coops). The design of that higher order Mankind is not what any smaller group focuses on or attempts design or achieve. There is no one saying, "all the people in the East shall be manufactures and all of those in the North shall be thinkers, and all those....". Instead, each and every group merely takes care of its own through a specific means that causes the group to behave as wisely as they can determine at the time and automatically learn from their errors. Every SAM coop is independently managed and autonomously directed, although still communicating with very many others.

So when I said:

SAM reforms nations as what you might think of as "organs of the body of Man (or Machine, or whatever)". But does it quite naturally without intent.

What I meant was that what you now call a "nation" ends up being more like an organ of a larger body of Mankind. But it isn't assigned to be any particular organ. Instead it merely ends up being one because every SAM coop within that region is focused on doing what they can do in the wisest way they can determine without regard to any higher scheme of Mankind's global design. Thus they are not dissonant nor distracted by imagined fantasy grand ideological designs.

It is exactly analogous to the cells of your body that never think in terms of what they should do for sake of the U.N.'s directives and mandates. Your cells merely do what they have to in order to keep alive. By them continuing to ignore the U.N., they keep the your body alive. SAM coops are far more intelligent than those cells, but they still attend to their own business above all else, lest the body of Mankind become dissonant, distracted by delusional fantasies, and fall into eternal contentious misery for all people concerned.

SAM understands the phrase, "Mind you own business .. very, very carefully and diligently." But because of the sentient design of each SAM coop, neighbors inherently take care of each other without having to be ordered to do so. They learn of their mistakes and those of others without having to be schooled or scolded. SAM doesn't have need for morals such as "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." SAM merely constantly and consistently attempts to discern what is wise, learns from mistakes, and produces what such efforts produce.

Engineers tend to look at the end goal design of a system and then work backwards to discern how to make each less part of the system. SAM function in the opposite manner. Each SAM focuses on how to be as perfect as it can be considering its own situation at the time and lets the end higher system design become whatever it becomes as a consequence rather than as a goal. SAM does not presume to know what higher system design is wisest and lets nature or the natural situation at the time determine that.

[Arminius]

But why can you be so sure that SAM can be put into practice without any problems? Are you implying that the engineers are machines?

[zinnat]

Then, how can you say that Sam SAM can achieve goodness without any such predefined and preinstalled intent?

I think that you are misunderstanding. SAM, "Social Anentropic Molecularisation", is a small group of people who work together with a particular focus. Everything that they do is toward that one aim. That aim is entirely about the needs of anentropy for that one group. It has nothing at all to do with what Mankind as a whole "should be" doing or how it should be assembled or governed.

Mankind ends up being the group of the very many smaller SAM groups (families or coops). The design of that higher order Mankind is not what any smaller group focuses on or attempts design or achieve. There is no one saying, "all the people in the East shall be manufactures and all of those in the North shall be thinkers, and all those....". Instead, each and every group merely takes care of its own through a specific means that causes the group to behave as wisely as they can determine at the time and automatically learn from their errors. Every SAM coop is independently managed and autonomously directed, although still communicating with very many others.

So when I said:

SAM reforms nations as what you might think of as "organs of the body of Man (or Machine, or whatever)". But does it quite naturally without intent.

What I meant was that what you now call a "nation" ends up being more like an organ of a larger body of Mankind. But it isn't assigned to be any particular organ. Instead it merely ends up being one because every SAM coop within that region is focused on doing what they can do in the wisest way they can determine without regard to any higher scheme of Mankind's global design. Thus they are not dissonant nor distracted by imagined fantasy grand ideological designs.

It is exactly analogous to the cells of your body that never think in terms of what they should do for sake of the U.N.'s directives and mandates. Your cells merely do what they have to in order to keep alive. By them continuing to ignore the U.N., they keep the your body alive. SAM coops are far more intelligent than those cells, but they still attend to their own business above all else, lest the body of Mankind become dissonant, distracted by delusional fantasies, and fall into eternal contentious misery for all people concerned.

SAM understands the phrase, "Mind you own business .. very, very carefully and diligently." But because of the sentient design of each SAM coop, neighbors inherently take care of each other without having to be ordered to do so. They learn of their mistakes and those of others without having to be schooled or scolded. SAM doesn't have need for morals such as "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." SAM merely constantly and consistently attempts to discern what is wise, learns from mistakes, and produces what such efforts produce.

Engineers tend to look at the end goal design of a system and then work backwards to discern how to make each less part of the system. SAM function in the opposite manner. Each SAM focuses on how to be as perfect as it can be considering its own situation at the time and lets the end higher system design become whatever it becomes as a consequence rather than as a goal. SAM does not presume to know what higher system design is wisest and lets nature or the natural situation at the time determine that.

I can understand that and it is good concept too, but there is a problem.

You said that each and every SAM coop will mind it's own business like cells and organs do in a body. But, a body does not follow this premise of minding own business by individual cells and organs.

Of course, it is true that different organs take different responsibilities, but they do not do that entirely willingly. All is controlled by CNS. The brain tells the heart that by which rate it has to pump in any particular circumstances. The Heart itself has no idea about it.

The organs and cells of the body would fail without a central govning system. Given that, how do you propose an alternate for that overall governing system, what brain does in the body and put all organs at the path of pursuing a common goal?

With love,
Sanjay